Is There Different Beliefs Among Catholics? Chrislam Movement?

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BreadOfLife

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Where does it say in the Bible that Mary was naturally born without sin.
I did not see an answer to that question.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You guys are asking each other questions, but I see no answers.
You both are ignoring each others questions and resort to insults and name calling.

Sad.
It doesn't say that she was born without sin.

It says that she was without sin. That she was completely, perfectly and enduringly endowed with grace - and that this was a completed act and a permanent result (Luke 1:28).
That's what "Kecharitomene" means.

As for when this happened - Christ guaranteed the leaders of His Church that the Holy Spirit would guide them to ALL Truth (John 16:12-15). This truth was revealed to His Church.
 
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Taken

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I've absolutely destroyed your arrogant claims that you are "unable" to sin by showing you the SCRIPTURAL WARNINGS to born again Christians

WARNINGS TO born Again Christians...?
Uh no!

You utterly fail to comprehend the difference from a MERE follower who "Can" Fall Away...

And a follower WHO Is Also Converted and a new creature who "can Never" Fall Away, Expressly because he is Kept BY The INWELLING Power of God.

It is utterly ridiculous for you to imply, suggest, or claim A MAN "with Gods Internal InDwelling Power" is Warned he is At Risk of falling away.

about staying on the right path or LOSING their security (Matt. 7:19-23, Matt. 10:22, Matt. 24:13, Matt. 25:31–46, John 15:1-6, Rom. 11:22, 1 Cor. 9:27, 1 Cor. 4:4, 1 Tim. 4:1, Heb. 3:6, Heb. 3:12-14, Heb 6:4-6, Heb. 10:26-27, 2 Pet. 3:17, 1 John 2:24, 1 John 5:13, Rev. 3:5, Rev. 22:19).
You are NOT immune to these verses . . .

Every scripture you have repeatedly mentioned...has been BY Several and Scripture itself,
Proved Does NOT APPLY TO the Converted!


Whether or not you are born of God - I don't know.

Obviously.

But I DO know that you worship a different god than the Almighty God of Scripture.

That is your unfounded Lie, and BTW simply reveals the height of your own indignation and desperation of being called on to reveal your claims in Scripture, and you can't.

false god lied about becoming human.
The God of Scripture actually DID become human and died for our sins.

My True God, never taught He Changes.
He never taught He BECOMES the CREATED!
My True God IS Spirit
And The Ultimate Power above All Power.
My True God, has the POWER to Appear in the LIKENESS of a human man.
And Expressly, Scripture teaches, My God DID in fact take ""UPON Himself" the LIKENESS AS an earthly man.
(Not a phenomenon...even Gods CREATED angel's, have the power to take upon themselves the likeness as an earthly man!)
Are you completely unaware, what Taking UPON oneself means?
When you take a Coat UPON yourself...do you think you have changed into a coat? LOL

Your doctrine teaches and you repeat, Gods Seed fertilized Mary's Seed and procreated a SOME kind of a god-human mutiant thing, that you marginalized to a math equation of this % human and that % A god.
You even have gone so far as to claim, Jesus has Mary's DNA! LOL!

And ALL of your denials and whining don't change the meaning of Kecharitomene - not ONE BIT.

Well the denials land on your explanations, that DO NOT harmonize With Scripture.

Not once have I denied Mary WAS Full of Grace or that the Lord was WITH her or that she was Blessed.

I've given you definitions from Greek Lexicons , scholarly commentaries Protestant and Catholic, linguistic breakdowns, etc.

It is Obvious you rely heavily on someone else telling you What to Believe and Explaining to you what "they" have determined what things mean.

You have Failed repeatedly to reveal One Scripture that expressly excluded Mary from Sin.

Funny. Jesus was expressly excluded from Sin...and about a dozen times Scripture Expressly says so....but for Mary...not once.
And the reason is clear...that didn't apply to her!

All YOU do is complain about it - but you offer nothing in the way of a scholarly linguistic refutation.
Good job . . .

Nope not a complaint...rather a disagreement.

but you offer nothing in the way of a scholarly linguistic refutation.

I have no requirement to argue the merits of opinions of men I KNOWING about.

I have given a plethora of Scriptures, that reveal your claims Are bogus man-man nonsense, and Not in harmony with Gods Word.

Your choice to accept man-made doctrine Over Gods Word is more than obvious.
It affects me none whatsoever.
I do not bother with your foolishness for your sake, but rather for the sake of others, to seek Gods TRUTH, instead of the twisted unscriptural nonsense you peddle.


BY the number of awesome Blessings God has bestowed upon me, I too, am leaning toward He is Blessing me for doing some good.

Glory to God,
Taken
 

Taken

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Another angry, psychotic rant with ZERO evidence to refute Mary's title of "Kecharitomene" (Luke 1:28).
A thousand angry opinions do NOT equal ONE single fact.

THAT'S why you lose debates - because you refuse to do your homework . . .

You are so predictable...in a creepy sort of way.

Your stash of insults...
Your unfounded accusations...
Your deflections...
Your ignorance of what a debate is...
And your constant back-patting...

You conjure up an image of a little old man who has spent years in how to be a perfect jerk and spends a fair amount of time making trophies for yourself.

Since you cannot back up your ridiculous claims with Scripture...call it a day.
 

RogerDC

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Christ Jesus appointed men to teach and spread "Gods Word."
Gods Word is written in Scriptures
As far as I know, nowhere in the NT does it say the NT is “God’s word” or “the word of God”. So how do you know the NT is “the word of God”? And nowhere do the Scriptures say “the word of God” is confined to the Scriptures. Sounds like you’re making unscriptural assumptions.
2Tim 3:16
Desperate for scriptural validation, disciples of Sola Scriptura trot out their only defense - the tired old “2Tim 3:16” argument, as lame and weak as it is. Unfortunately, the context of 2Tim 3:16 means it is referring to the OT, and it doesn’t say the Scriptures are the complete word of God or that the Scriptures are all you need for doctrine.
FOR Christ's Doctrine, one must search The Lord Jesus' Doctrine, Recorded IN Scripture.
… and the result is a chaotic and confusing circus of endless and differing doctrines and competing denominations, sects and cults. Which doctrines are correct? Who knows?! Are any of them correct? Who knows?! That way lies madness … and you’re welcome to it.

As for me, I choose the peace, sanity, beauty and infallible certainty of Christ’s one true Church.
 

Taken

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As far as I know, nowhere in the NT does it say the NT is “God’s word” or “the word of God”.

Mark 7 [13]...word of God
Luke.3[2] theword of God
Luke.4[4] word of God.
Luke.5[1]word of God,
Luke.8[11]word of God.
[21] word of God,
Luke.11[28] word of God,
John.10[35] word of God
Acts.4[31] word of God
Acts.6[2] word of God,
[7] word of God
Acts.8[14] word of God,
Acts.11[1] word of God.
Acts.12[24] word of God
Acts.13[5] theword of God
[7] word of God.
[44] word of God.
[46] word of God
Acts.17
[13] word of God
Acts.18[11] word of God
Acts.19[20] word of God
Rom.9[6] word of God
Rom.10[17] word of God.
1Cor.14[36] word of God
2Cor.2[17] word of God:
2Cor.4[2] word of God
Eph.6[17] word of God:
Col.1[25] word of God;
1Thes.2[13] word of God; word of God
1Tim.4[5] word of God
2Tim.2[9] word of God
Tit.2]5] word of God
Heb.4[12] word of God
Heb.6[5] word of God
Heb.11[3] word of God
Heb.13[7] word of God
1Pet.1[23] word of God
2Pet.3[5] theword of God
1John.2[14] theword of God
Rev.1[2]word of God
[9] theword of God
Rev.6[9]word of God
Rev.19[13] Word of God
Rev.20
[4]word of God

So how do you know the NT is “the word of God”?

Trust in God.

Glory to God,
Taken
 

Taken

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Which doctrines are correct? Who knows?! Are any of them correct? Who knows?!

Gods Doctrine.

You know, the Doctrine revealed in Scripture...that you claimed, you have no need of?

Glory to God,
Taken
 

BreadOfLife

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I've absolutely destroyed your arrogant claims that you are "unable" to sin by showing you the SCRIPTURAL WARNINGS to born again Christians

WARNINGS TO born Again Christians...?
Uh no!

You utterly fail to comprehend the difference from a MERE follower who "Can" Fall Away...

And a follower WHO Is Also Converted and a new creature who "can Never" Fall Away, Expressly because he is Kept BY The INWELLING Power of God.

It is utterly ridiculous for you to imply, suggest, or claim A MAN "with Gods Internal InDwelling Power" is Warned he is At Risk of falling away.

John 15:1-6, Rom. 11:22, 1 Cor. 9:27, 1 Cor. 4:4, 1 Tim. 4:1, Heb. 3:6, Heb. 3:12-14, Heb 6:4-6, Heb. 10:26-27, 2 Pet. 3:17, 1 John 2:24, 1 John 5:13, Rev. 3:5, Rev. 22:19).
You are NOT immune to these verses . . .
Every scripture you have repeatedly mentioned...has been BY Several and Scripture itself,
Proved Does NOT APPLY TO the Converted!


Whether or not you are born of God - I don't know.
Obviously.

But I DO know that you worship a different god than the Almighty God of Scripture.
That is your unfounded Lie, and BTW simply reveals the height of your own indignation and desperation of being called on to reveal your claims in Scripture, and you can't.

YOUR
false god lied about becoming human.
The God of Scripture actually DID become human and died for our sins.
My True God, never taught He Changes.
He never taught He BECOMES the CREATED!
My True God IS Spirit
And The Ultimate Power above All Power.
My True God, has the POWER to Appear in the LIKENESS of a human man.
And Expressly, Scripture teaches, My God DID in fact take ""UPON Himself" the LIKENESS AS an earthly man.
(Not a phenomenon...even Gods CREATED angel's, have the power to take upon themselves the likeness as an earthly man!)
Are you completely unaware, what Taking UPON oneself means?
When you take a Coat UPON yourself...do you think you have changed into a coat? LOL

Your doctrine teaches and you repeat, Gods Seed fertilized Mary's Seed and procreated a SOME kind of a god-human mutiant thing, that you marginalized to a math equation of this % human and that % A god.
You even have gone so far as to claim, Jesus has Mary's DNA! LOL!

And ALL of your denials and whining don't change the meaning of Kecharitomene - not ONE BIT.
Well the denials land on your explanations, that DO NOT harmonize With Scripture.

Not once have I denied Mary WAS Full of Grace or that the Lord was WITH her or that she was Blessed.

I've given you definitions from Greek Lexicons , scholarly commentaries Protestant and Catholic, linguistic breakdowns, etc.
It is Obvious you rely heavily on someone else telling you What to Believe and Explaining to you what "they" have determined what things mean.

You have Failed repeatedly to reveal One Scripture that expressly excluded Mary from Sin.

Funny. Jesus was expressly excluded from Sin...and about a dozen times Scripture Expressly says so....but for Mary...not once.
And the reason is clear...that didn't apply to her!

All YOU do is complain about it - but you offer nothing in the way of a scholarly linguistic refutation.
Good job . . .
Nope not a complaint...rather a disagreement.

but you offer nothing in the way of a scholarly linguistic refutation.
I have no requirement to argue the merits of opinions of men I KNOWING about.

I have given a plethora of Scriptures, that reveal your claims Are bogus man-man nonsense, and Not in harmony with Gods Word.

Your choice to accept man-made doctrine Over Gods Word is more than obvious.
It affects me none whatsoever.
I do not bother with your foolishness for your sake, but rather for the sake of others, to seek Gods TRUTH, instead of the twisted unscriptural nonsense you peddle.

Good
job .
BY the number of awesome Blessings God has bestowed upon me, I too, am leaning toward He is Blessing me for doing some good.

Glory to God,
Taken
WOW.
I'll say this for you: You are NEVER as short on words as you are on faith, Scriptural evidence and logic . . .

We're on pot #307 - and you STILL haven't been able to address Mary's title of "Kecharitomene."

You've also failed miserably at defending your impotent position that the Bible doesn't warn born-again believers NOT to fall back into darkness or they will lose their security - because Scripture absolutely DOES:
(Matt. 7:19-23, Matt. 10:22, Matt. 24:13, Matt. 25:31–46, John 15:1-6, Rom. 11:22, 1 Cor. 9:27, 1 Cor. 4:4, 1 Tim. 4:1, Heb. 3:6, Heb. 3:12-14, Heb 6:4-6, Heb. 10:26-27, 2 Pet. 3:17, 1 John 2:24, 1 John 5:13, Rev. 3:5, Rev. 22:19).
 

BreadOfLife

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You are so predictable...in a creepy sort of way.
Your stash of insults...
Your unfounded accusations...
Your deflections...
Your ignorance of what a debate is...
And your constant back-patting...


You conjure up an image of a little old man who has spent years in how to be a perfect jerk and spends a fair amount of time making trophies for yourself.

Since you cannot back up your ridiculous claims with Scripture...call it a day.
And YOUR failure to address Mary's God-given, SCRIPTURAL title of "Kecharitomene."

Gee - I wonder why that is . . .
 

Taken

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And YOUR failure to address Mary's God-given, SCRIPTURAL title of "Kecharitomene."

Gee - I wonder why that is . . .

Not a Secret.

You are here to proclaim yourself a Teacher and Winner of your Catholic Doctrine of Carnal minded Logic and Philosophies of Carnal minded Gentile men, Against The Supreme Word of Gods Doctrine, and men whose Doctrine IS Gods Doctrine.

We were Expecting you and your Anti-Christ Doctrine and have made clear, we are Faithful To The Lord God Almighty and Have Rejected your way.

Glory to God,
Taken
 

BreadOfLife

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Not a Secret.

You are here to proclaim yourself a Teacher and Winner of your Catholic Doctrine of Carnal minded Logic and Philosophies of Carnal minded Gentile men, Against The Supreme Word of Gods Doctrine, and men whose Doctrine IS Gods Doctrine.

We were Expecting you and your Anti-Christ Doctrine and have made clear, we are Faithful To The Lord God Almighty and Have Rejected your way.

Glory to God,
Taken
Ummmmm, make that 310 posts and STILL not refutation of Mary's GOD-given title of "Kecharitomene."

That's what I thought . . .
 

BreadOfLife

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You are going to talk for an other.
That's a first...Not! :eek:
Not speaking on your behalf.
Just pointing out that you are NEVER as short on words as you are on faith, Scriptural evidence and logic . . .
 

Taken

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Is There Different Beliefs Among Catholics? Chrislam Movement? <--- OP

Source Beliefs are parallel -
Gentile men whose Core Doctrine hinges on Philosophies of CREATED men:
Elected succession of Popes,
Muhammad.

A merger of sorts, would fulfill Prophecy reqarding "Many".

Glory to God,
Taken
 

Taken

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Ummmmm, make that 310 posts and STILL not refutation of Mary's GOD-given title of "Kecharitomene."

That's what I thought . . .

You are desperately trying to conjure a Debate of a Spiritual Event...
That would Require the Debate to have a Common Spiritual Doctrine.

Gods Doctrine; (which IS my Doctrine) is in One Book...and Catholic Doctrine; (which IS your doctrine) is in another book.

There IS no common source from which TO Debate.

I reject Your Doctrine, You reject Gods Doctrine...There is no Debate, only Disagreement and Rejection.

Now go shoo and accept, I do not accept your bastardized catholic doctrine.

Glory to God,
Taken
 

RogerDC

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Mark 7 [13]...word of God
Luke.3[2] theword of God
Luke.4[4] word of God.
Luke.5[1]word of God,
Luke.8[11]word of God.
[21] word of God,
Luke.11[28] word of God,
John.10[35] word of God
Acts.4[31] word of God
Acts.6[2] word of God,
[7] word of God
Acts.8[14] word of God,
Acts.11[1] word of God.
Acts.12[24] word of God
Acts.13[5] theword of God
[7] word of God.
[44] word of God.
[46] word of God
Acts.17
[13] word of God
Acts.18[11] word of God
Acts.19[20] word of God
Rom.9[6] word of God
Rom.10[17] word of God.
1Cor.14[36] word of God
2Cor.2[17] word of God:
2Cor.4[2] word of God
Eph.6[17] word of God:
Col.1[25] word of God;
1Thes.2[13] word of God; word of God
1Tim.4[5] word of God
2Tim.2[9] word of God
Tit.2]5] word of God
Heb.4[12] word of God
Heb.6[5] word of God
Heb.11[3] word of God
Heb.13[7] word of God
1Pet.1[23] word of God
2Pet.3[5] theword of God
1John.2[14] theword of God
Rev.1[2]word of God
[9] theword of God
Rev.6[9]word of God
Rev.19[13] Word of God
Rev.20
[4]word of God
This isn't what I asked for … so I'll try again:

Where does the NT say the NT is the "word of God"?
 

Taken

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This isn't what I asked for … so I'll try again:

Where does the NT say the NT is the "word of God"?

Heb 9
[15] ...he is the mediator of the New Testament

If you can Not reason, who he is, or what a testament is, or what a mediator does...
Try a toddler bible with elementry language and illustrations.
 

RogerDC

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Heb 9
[15] ...he is the mediator of the New Testament

If you can Not reason, who he is, or what a testament is, or what a mediator does...
What? You think “new testament” in Heb 9:15 refers to the Scriptures, the books of Matthew to Revelation? Good grief. No, wait ... you must be joking - no one could possibly be that clueless!

Anyway, enough of the comic relief … you’ve yet to show me where the NT says it is “the word of God”?

And tell me this, who decided on the canon of the NT? (Here’s a clue - it was the Catholic Church)
 

Taken

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What? You think “new testament” in Heb 9:15 refers to the Scriptures, the books of Matthew to Revelation? Good grief. No, wait ... you must be joking - no one could possibly be that clueless!

:rolleyes::eek:

LOL
 

Taken

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… you’ve yet to show me where the NT says it is “the word of God”?

Gods Word effected in the OT -
Isa 48:
[3] I have declared the former things from the beginning; and they (Gods Word) went forth out of my mouth, and I shewed them; I did them suddenly, and they came to pass.

Prophecy Foretold -
Isa.55

[11] So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

Prophecy Recapped-
John 1:
[1] In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Prophecy Fulfilled-
John 1
[10] He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

John 1:
[11] He came ...
(In the world)
[12] ...many (in the world) .. received him..

John 17: (Jesus speaking )
[8] For I (Jesus) have given unto them (The Disciples, WHO, received Him and ...) the words which thou (God) gavest me; (Jesus) and they (The Disciples) have received them,(God words) and have known surely that I (Jesus) came out from thee, (God) and they (The Disciples) have believed that thou (God) didst send me.(Jesus)

Prophecy -
John 1:
12: many as receiv-ED him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

To THEM- (that receiv-ED Him)
John 1:
[16] And of his fulness have all we receiv-ED , and grace for grace.

Receiv-ED - NOT having HAD, and Then Having HIS Fulness...

Gee - What did the World Not Have...and Then those who ReceivED Gain?

His Fullness -
And what IS His Fullnes?

John 1:
[17] ... grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

Future Prophecy -
(For men who can not Believe without SEEING)
Rev 19:
[13] And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
[16] And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

John 10:
[30] I and my Father are one.

you’ve yet to show me where the NT says it is “the word of God”?

You were given a list specific of Numerous Scriptural References. Did you Search Them, Read Them? BY your QUICK response, I highly doubt you bothered to Read the Scriptures, let alone comprehend their meaning.

I take no responsibility for your lack of Hearing, Reading, Searching the Scriptures...
It is Obvious, you are content with Catholic Dogma telling you WHAT to believe, and never having to actually VERIFY what men say Against the Word of God...since you obviously, are oblivious to WHAT and WHO the Word of God...IS!

Yipes!
 
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Taken

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And tell me this, who decided on the canon of the NT? (Here’s a clue - it was the Catholic Church)

I'm pretty confidant Jews were writing Scripture and destributing the literature long before Gentiles began collecting the Jewish writings and hiding them from the public.