I observe the Sabbath on....

Giuliano said:

I rather think he was addressing several things. What we can be more certain of is that the Apostles, when asked about such things, said circumcision was not required for Gentiles. They gave a list of things which Gentile converts needed to do, and keeping the Sabbath was not on their list.

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The apostles did not make and did not receive any <<list of things>> which neither Jewish converts nor Gentile <<converts needed to do>>, NOWHERE, least in Acts 15. You and Oligos are just the same, talking just the same untruth, far too MUCH.

quietthinker said:

Understand the Sanctuary system and you'll understand who Israel was/is

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I think you are speaking or should speak to Giuliano.

For the believer in Christ every day is the Sabbath rest. We have ceased form dead works to serve the living God in His rest.

Sabbath means to STOP doing what we were once doing...from ourselves.

quietthinker said:

Do you think it's possible that the keeping God's ten commandments was a given? Paul never mentioned not murdering, not coveting etc. I would say the ten were never in dispute. I was the various other rules that specific Jews were trying to get the Gentiles to adhere to.

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You are correct, and say it well, the keeping of God's Ten commandments <<was a given>> and <<never were in dispute.>>. Why, are you too polite or perhaps ashamed, to say it loud and clear for everyone to HEAR? Paul DOES mention not to murder, not to covet etc. JUST LIKE he mentions "Sabbath-Feast of Christ" IN DEFIANCE OF THE WORLD!

Episkopos said:

For the believer in Christ every day is the Sabbath rest. We have ceased form dead works to serve the living God in His rest.

Sabbath means to STOP doing what we were once doing...from ourselves.

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SCRIPTURE - NEW Testament Word-of-God: READ! HEAR! you hearing deaf and seeing blind, "superstitiously worshipping and idolising days-, months-, season-, years-" of-self-willed self-satisfied self-righteous, possessed, arrogance!
: For the believer in Christ, "God thus .. in these last days .. BY THE SON, THUS, CONCERNING THE SEVENTH DAY, SPAKE, AND GOD THE DAY THE SEVENTH DAY FROM ALL, HIS, WORKS, RESTED, WHEREFORE THE SABBATH-DAY-OF-REST-FOR-THE-PEOPLE-OF-GOD, STAYS VALID .. IF JESUS GAVE THEM REST." IF JESUS GAVE THEM REST WHICH HE DID HAVING RAISED FROM THE DEAD "ON THE SABBATH".

Therewith forever cease from your dead works of DENIAL AND DEFIANT SELF-WILL-WORSHIP, and "REMEMBER the LORD on the Sabbath REVIVED - RESURRECTED FROM THE DEAD - AND RESTED." In resting He REVIVED and "in reviving - from the dead - the Lord on the Seventh Day RESTED .. the Sabbath of the LORD GOD".

Is He "the LORD - YOUR - GOD"?! That's all that should be heard from us, the saved lost sheep of our Good Shepherd's pastures.

quietthinker said:

Do you think it's possible that the keeping God's ten commandments was a given? Paul never mentioned not murdering, not coveting etc. I would say the ten were never in dispute. I was the various other rules that specific Jews were trying to get the Gentiles to adhere to.

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I am not going to make that assumption, especially since the Bible itself tells us the Sabbath was given specifically to Israel.

I also go by what is written in Acts about it. If they thought keeping the Sabbath was "necessary," I think they would have included it in the list they drew up. I am not going to try to read between the lines.

Acts 15:23 And they wrote letters by them after this manner; The apostles and elders and brethren send greeting unto the brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia.
24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:
25 It seemed good unto us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men unto you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul,
26 Men that have hazarded their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
27 We have sent therefore Judas and Silas, who shall also tell you the same things by mouth.
28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;
29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.

What I think early church history tells us is that Jewish converts often kept observing the Sabbath. Many Gentiles were used to having Sundays as their day off, and they retained that in some places. I believe it was St. Ignatius of Antioch who wanted to standardize things; and he was in favor of Sundays rather than Saturdays. At any rate, we find out some Christians did Saturday and some Sunday in the early church.

Giuliano said:

I am not going to make that assumption, especially since the Bible itself tells us the Sabbath was given specifically to Israel.

I also go by what is written in Acts about it. If they thought keeping the Sabbath was "necessary," I think they would have included it in the list they drew up. I am not going to try to read between the lines.

Acts 15:23 And they wrote letters by them after this manner; The apostles and elders and brethren send greeting unto the brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia.
24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:
25 It seemed good unto us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men unto you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul,
26 Men that have hazarded their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
27 We have sent therefore Judas and Silas, who shall also tell you the same things by mouth.
28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;
29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.

What I think early church history tells us is that Jewish converts often kept observing the Sabbath. Many Gentiles were used to having Sundays as their day off, and they retained that in some places. I believe it was St. Ignatius of Antioch who wanted to standardize things; and he was in favor of Sundays rather than Saturdays. At any rate, we find out some Christians did Saturday and some Sunday in the early church.

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Hebrews 4:9-12 KJV
[9] There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. [10] For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. [11] Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief. [12] For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

In my opinion the sabbath is just this, man ceases from trying to be found righteous through his own efforts.
Tecarta Bible

quietthinker said:

Understand the Sanctuary system and you'll understand who Israel was/is

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Understand the Gospel and you'll understand the <Sanctuary system>. Never vice versa!

Giuliano said:

the Bible itself tells us the Sabbath was given specifically to Israel.

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Scripture, friend, SCRIPTURE!

On the contrary to what you claim, God specifically RESERVED the Sabbath HIS: "the Seventh Day is Sabbath of : the LORD GOD"!

Waiting on him said:

Hebrews 4:9-12 KJV
[9] There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. [10] For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. [11] Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief. [12] For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

In my opinion the sabbath is just this, man ceases from trying to be found righteous through his own efforts.
Tecarta Bible

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Very good. I also connect the Sabbath with hearing the Voice of God in a special way that can be described by some as a trumpet sound although perhaps others would describe it as a profound silence. The more sinful the person, the louder it will seem and the more threatening. It might seem silent to the saint. Elijah heard a small still voice. . . . That passage from Hebrews refers to it as "the word of God." So it is too since the saint is hearing from God -- and very much so when soul and spirit and so on are divided and things become clear.

Israel would have been able to enter that eternal rest after coming out of Egypt. For me then, the purpose of the Sabbath was to prepare them for it by reminding them of it once a week.

Yet how many of them entered the eternal rest?

Psalm 95:6 O come, let us worship and bow down: let us kneel before the Lord our maker.
7 For he is our God; and we are the people of his pasture, and the sheep of his hand. To day if ye will hear his voice,
8 Harden not your heart, as in the provocation, and as in the day of temptation in the wilderness:
9 When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my work.
10 Forty years long was I grieved with this generation, and said, It is a people that do err in their heart, and they have not known my ways:
11 Unto whom I sware in my wrath that they should not enter into my rest.

The sound of the trumpet frightened them at Sinai. . . . . They did not want to hear the Voice of God for themselves.

Now if it is true that Christians are part of the "new covenant" where the old heart has been circumcised or the old heart of stone has been replaced by a heart of flesh, they should be able to enter the eternal rest. Do they then need to observe a certain day? It might benefit some people -- I can't judge that.

I'll admit I found it helpful myself. I was taught to keep Sundays when a child. Later I started observing Saturdays; and I found it did teach some things.

I think many people have experienced moments of profound silence. I think it's a partial entering into the eternal rest in most cases.

Giuliano said:

Very good. I also connect the Sabbath with hearing the Voice of God in a special way that can be described by some as a trumpet sound although perhaps others would describe it as a profound silence. The more sinful the person, the louder it will seem and the more threatening. It might seem silent to the saint. Elijah heard a small still voice. . . . That passage from Hebrews refers to it as "the word of God." So it is too since the saint is hearing from God -- and very much so when soul and spirit and so on are divided and things become clear.

Israel would have been able to enter that eternal rest after coming out of Egypt. For me then, the purpose of the Sabbath was to prepare them for it by reminding them of it once a week.

Yet how many of them entered the eternal rest?

Psalm 95:6 O come, let us worship and bow down: let us kneel before the Lord our maker.
7 For he is our God; and we are the people of his pasture, and the sheep of his hand. To day if ye will hear his voice,
8 Harden not your heart, as in the provocation, and as in the day of temptation in the wilderness:
9 When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my work.
10 Forty years long was I grieved with this generation, and said, It is a people that do err in their heart, and they have not known my ways:
11 Unto whom I sware in my wrath that they should not enter into my rest.

The sound of the trumpet frightened them at Sinai. . . . . They did not want to hear the Voice of God for themselves.

Now if it is true that Christians are part of the "new covenant" where the old heart has been circumcised or the old heart of stone has been replaced by a heart of flesh, they should be able to enter the eternal rest. Do they then need to observe a certain day? It might benefit some people -- I can't judge that.

I'll admit I found it helpful myself. I was taught to keep Sundays when a child. Later I started observing Saturdays; and I found it did teach some things.

I think many people have experienced moments of profound silence. I think it's a partial entering into the eternal rest in most cases.

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Why not observe every day?

GerhardEbersoehn said:

Scripture, friend, SCRIPTURE!

On the contrary to what you claim, God specifically RESERVED the Sabbath HIS: "the Seventh Day is Sabbath of : the LORD GOD"!

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I already gave it in post #8.

Giuliano said:

I'm very aware that Sunday is not the Sabbath. I was joking.

As for what day people keep, that's their affair. The Sabbath was given to Israel. The Bible says that.

Exodus 31:13 Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the Lord that doth sanctify you.

I'm a Gentile not a Jew. My ancestors were not at Sinai.

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I'll quote more of the passage.

13 Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the Lord that doth sanctify you.
14 Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.
15 Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the Lord: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.
16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.


Got it? It was for Israel. Are Christians under that covenant or do they have a different covenant? I tell you my ancestors were not at Sinai. They did not make covenant with God at Sinai. It doesn't apply to me.

Waiting on him said:

Why not observe every day?

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Why not? It is always today. It is not yesterday or tomorrow. It is always today.

As David put it, "To day if ye will hear his voice. . . ."

Giuliano said:

Now if it is true that Christians are part of the "new covenant" where the old heart has been circumcised or the old heart of stone has been replaced by a heart of flesh, they should be able to enter the eternal rest.

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Agree. not that it will change anything as everyone sees it different I guess, but you were very clear and that is how I’ve understood it also. “Where the old heart of stone has been replaced by a heart of flesh” Colossians 2:11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

“they should be able to enter the eternal rest” enter in and bear much fruit of the Spirit of God...entering into New Birth. the stony heart removed in the parables of the seed and sower where only One heart bears and increases and very significantly “endures”. Mark 4:16-17And these are they likewise which are sown on stony ground; who, when they have heard the word, immediately receive it with gladness; [17] And have no root in themselves, and so endure but for a time: afterward, when affliction or persecution ariseth for the word's sake, immediately they are offended.
Remember when He said blessed are those not offended in Me. Who have entered into His rest...Mark 4:5-8 And some fell on stony ground, where it had not much earth; and immediately it sprang up, because it had no depth of earth: [6] But when the sun was up, it was scorched; and because it had no root, it withered away. [7] And some fell among thorns, and the thorns grew up, and choked it, and it yielded no fruit. [8] And other fell on good ground,(His rest) and did yield fruit that sprang up and increased; and brought forth, some thirty, and some sixty, and some an hundred.

VictoryinJesus said:

Agree. not that it will change anything as everyone sees it different I guess, but you were very clear and that is how I’ve understood it also. “Where the old heart of stone has been replaced by a heart of flesh” Colossians 2:11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

“they should be able to enter the eternal rest” enter in and bear much fruit of the Spirit of God...entering into New Birth. the stony heart removed in the parables of the seed and sower where only One heart bears and increases and very significantly “endures”. Mark 4:16-17And these are they likewise which are sown on stony ground; who, when they have heard the word, immediately receive it with gladness; [17] And have no root in themselves, and so endure but for a time: afterward, when affliction or persecution ariseth for the word's sake, immediately they are offended.
Remember when He said blessed are those not offended in Me. Who have entered into His rest...Mark 4:5-8 And some fell on stony ground, where it had not much earth; and immediately it sprang up, because it had no depth of earth: [6] But when the sun was up, it was scorched; and because it had no root, it withered away. [7] And some fell among thorns, and the thorns grew up, and choked it, and it yielded no fruit. [8] And other fell on good ground,(His rest) and did yield fruit that sprang up and increased; and brought forth, some thirty, and some sixty, and some an hundred.

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Yet the Husbandman knows how to work the ground.

Waiting on him said:

Hebrews 4:9-12 KJV
[9] There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. [10] For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. [11] Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief. [12] For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

In my opinion the sabbath is just this, man ceases from trying to be found righteous through his own efforts.
Tecarta Bible

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yes ...yet according to His rest being either “man ceases from trying to be found righteous through his own efforts” or a observing a certain day of the week being Saturday or Sunday,

There remains a constant rub of friction with “enter into His rest” along with His Temple made without hands. Division between His people being the Temple of God made without hands, ...or a building made with hands. Same as; is His Rest entered into: Romans 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Or is it...a day of the week?

Waiting on him said:

Why not observe every day?

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mediating this morning on why the removal of the heart of stone and a heart of flesh given? In God said He would create a new heart In them giving them One heart...”not in letter” but that “body of sin” removed by the circumcision made without hands by Christ. of “His flesh“ being of the inward parts of the heart. Romans 2:28-29 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: [29] But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Psalm 62:3-6 How long will ye imagine mischief against a man? ye shall be slain all of you: as a bowing wall shall ye be, and as a tottering fence. [4] They only consult to cast him down from his excellency: they delight in lies: they bless with their mouth, but they curse inwardly. Selah. [5] My soul, wait thou only upon God; for my expectation is from him. [6] He only is my rock and my salvation: he is my defence; I shall not be moved.

Matthew 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

Seasoned by Grace said:

....Sundays as a Christ follower and obey the 10 Commandments 24/7, so as I don't do forums on Sunday, I will see you Monday.
God bless you all.

My name is OLIGOS

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There are no scripture testifying to the sabbath having been moved to the first day of the week for the churches to call that day the new sabbath day.

And there is a reason for that. Because when believers are profaning the actual sabbath day, they are guiltless because Jesus is with them always.

Matthew 12:1At that time Jesus went on the sabbath day through the corn; and his disciples were an hungred, and began to pluck the ears of corn and to eat. 2 But when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day. 3 But he said unto them, Have ye not read what David did, when he was an hungred, and they that were with him; 4 How he entered into the house of God, and did eat the shewbread, which was not lawful for him to eat, neither for them which were with him, but only for the priests? 5 Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless? 6 But I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the temple. 7 But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless.

Jesus cited 2 examples of saints having profaned the sabbath day but they were guiltless because they were in the Temple. Then Jesus said One greater than the Temple was here in defending His disciples against the Jews for "profaning" the sabbath day, namely Jesus was with them for why His disciples were guiltless. That applies to why believers today are guiltless for profaning the sabbath day because He is in us and with us always as always able to make us stand for it is His righteousness in us apart from the law that presents us faultless to His glory.

1 Corinthians 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? 20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

Matthew 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

So there is no new sabbath day. Churches worship Him on the first day of the week as the day He has risen on, but believers can worship Him any day of the week, even on the sabbath day if they want, but not for the commandment of keeping the sabbath day to earn righteousness or justification or obtain salvation by the deed of the law.

Romans 3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. 27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. 28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Colossians 2:15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. 16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: 17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Romans 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand. 5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. 6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks. 7 For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself. 8 For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.

Making the first day of the week the new sabbath day can bring in religious minded folk that would treat it the same as the original sabbath day and judge others by it. So it is best to avoid calling the first day of the week the sabbath day when we are guiltless for profaning the original sabbath day. Every day we are free to regard the day unto the Lord or not to because we are the Lord's.

Waiting on him said:

Hebrews 4:9-12 KJV
[9] There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. [10] For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. [11] Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief. [12] For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

In my opinion the sabbath is just this, man ceases from trying to be found righteous through his own efforts.

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I your opinion ... You ought not to have placed Hebrews 4:9-12. Your opinion isn't based on it, and it has nothing in it about your opinion. In actual fact Hebrews 4:9-12 cuts your opinion into shreds and exposes your thoughts and intents for what they truly are: excuses and self-justifications for despising "the Sabbath Day-of-rest remaining for the People of God if Jesus gave them rest."

GerhardEbersoehn said:

In actual fact Hebrews 4:9-12 cuts your opinion into shreds and exposes your thoughts and intents for what they truly are: excuses and self-justifications for despising

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“For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.”

Luke 2:34-35 And Simeon blessed them, and said unto Mary his mother, Behold, this child is set for the fall and rising again of many in Israel; and for a sign which shall be spoken against; [35] (Yea, a sword shall pierce through thy own soul also,) that the thoughts of many hearts may be revealed.

Psalm 37:10-15 For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be : yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be. [11] But the meek shall inherit the earth; and shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace. [12] The wicked plotteth against the just, and gnasheth upon him with his teeth. [13] The Lord shall laugh at him: for he seeth that his day is coming. [14] The wicked have drawn out the sword, and have bent their bow, to cast down the poor and needy, and to slay such as be of upright conversation. [15] Their sword shall enter into their own heart, and their bows shall be broken.

“Consider his place, and it shall not be” Acts 7:48-49 Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet, [49] Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest?


“what is the place of my rest?” ...what is your answer?