Is Any Denomination Saved?

Enow · Feb 17, 2020

Truther said:
John 3 is speaking of the Acts 2 outpouring.

It says nothing about remission of sins.

Jesus said that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name beginning at Jerusalem.

At Jerusalem, the very first time remission was mentioned was when the sinners that killed Jesus asked what to do to fix their sin.

Peter told them "...repent, and be baptized in he name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins...."

Peter did not say "...repent for the remission...", or "...receive the Holy Ghost for the remission...".

There is only 1 way to find remission of sins, that is found in Acts 2:38.

We need to stick to the script.

Then why didn't Peter stick to the script to the Gentiles? Why didn't God?

Acts 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. 44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

Truther · Feb 17, 2020

Enow said:
You have heard of the baptism of the Holy Spirit, right? The one Jesus baptizes us at our salvation? The One the Father sends as promised at our salvation? That is the baptism spoken of in Mark 16:16 for why by not believing in Him is how they are not saved.

John 1:32 And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him. 33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost. 34 And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.

Matthew 3:15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him. 16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: 17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

John 14:1Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.....6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.....16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.....25 These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you. 26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

The baptism of the Holy Ghost does not remit the sins at all.

It causes sinners to want to have their sins remitted per water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ.

It will never be the modern substitute of the ancient method of water baptism that was administered at the day of Pentecost, the birthday of the church.

It was never sent to replace water baptism, but to magnify water baptism.

Peter commanded sinners to repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins AND ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Modern folks redefined Peter as saying repent AND receive the Holy Ghost for the remission of sins, then later get baptized if you want.

I choose Peter over modern folks.

Truther · Feb 17, 2020

Enow said:
Then why didn't Peter stick to the script to the Gentiles? Why didn't God?

Acts 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. 44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

He did.

Jesus said "He that believeth AND IS baptized shall be saved".

In Acts 10, what immediately happened to the gentile believers?

47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord....

Enow · Feb 17, 2020

Truther said:
The baptism of the Holy Ghost does not remit the sins at all.

Peter said to the Gentiles plainly that it was by believing in Him is how one receives the remission of sins. Then comes the gift of the Holy Ghost hence the born again of the Spirit at our salvation at the calling of the gospel because..

Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

I choose Peter over modern folks.

I do too BECAUSE water baptism is not mentioned in order to get the remission of sins to the Gentiles for WHY I say readers are mistaken when thinking being baptized by water is how the converted Jews had gotten the remission of sins in Acts 2:38.

Acts 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. 44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

Enow · Feb 17, 2020

Truther said:
He did.

Jesus said "He that believeth AND IS baptized shall be saved".

You are alluding to water baptism when I believe He is alluding to the baptism with the Holy Ghost at salvation. That is why it is written those who do not believe in Him are not saved rather than those who do not believe and are not baptized are not saved.

In Acts 10, what immediately happened to the gentile believers?

47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord....

Like I said, water baptism is an ordinance for new believers to follow as His disciples.

But I point out again Peter said how they got the remission of sins and that was by believing in Him.

And do note that Peter did not command them to be water baptized afterwards in order to receive the remissin of sins then.

That is why water baptism in Acts 2:38 has nothing to do with the remission of sins but repenting from unbelief by believing in Him was.

Truther · Feb 17, 2020

Enow said:
Peter said to the Gentiles plainly that it was by believing in Him is how one receives the remission of sins. Then comes the gift of the Holy Ghost hence the born again of the Spirit at our salvation at the calling of the gospel because..

Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

I do too BECAUSE water baptism is not mentioned in order to get the remission of sins to the Gentiles for WHY I say readers are mistaken when thinking being baptized by water is how the converted Jews had gotten the remission of sins in Acts 2:38.

Acts 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. 44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

You think Jews and Gentiles have 2 different methods to remit sins?

If so, is a DNA test required prior to water baptism?

Truther · Feb 17, 2020

Enow said:
You are alluding to water baptism when I believe He is alluding to the baptism with the Holy Ghost at salvation. That is why it is written those who do not believe in Him are not saved rather than those who do not believe and are not baptized are not saved.

Like I said, water baptism is an ordinance for new believers to follow as His disciples.

But I point out again Peter said how they got the remission of sins and that was by believing in Him.

And do note that Peter did not command them to be water baptized afterwards in order to receive the remissin of sins then.

That is why water baptism in Acts 2:38 has nothing to do with the remission of sins but repenting from unbelief by believing in Him was.

Great commission....

15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Great commission.....

47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

Great commission....

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Water baptism, not Spirit baptism.

aspen · Feb 17, 2020

No, and neither are you; at this moment Christians are being saved.

Yes. Time is an illusion; all Christians are living every moment of their lives and eternity, at the same time, including kneeling at God’s throne

Enow · Feb 17, 2020

Truther said:
You think Jews and Gentiles have 2 different methods to remit sins?

If so, is a DNA test required prior to water baptism?

No. That is why I'd say that believers are misapplying water baptism in Acts 2:38 as to how to get the remission of sins when Repent was mentioned first which is to repent from unbelief for why they had crucified Christ and thus by believing in Him is how they got the remission of sins as the Gentiles had plainly done.

There is only one gospel. The cause and effect is for you to discern by Him for why the Gentiles had received Him before water baptism when Peter said plainly to them that it was by believing in Him was how they were to receive the remission of sins and thus the gift of the Holy Ghost as a result before water baptism.

Think of believing in Him is how they got the remission of sins and thus becoming a new creature in Christ ( new wine bottles ) for how they were able to receive the promise of the forever indwelling Holy Ghost at their salvation as a testimony that they just had been saved by Jesus Christ.

Matthew 9:17 Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved.

Truther · Feb 17, 2020

Enow said:
You are alluding to water baptism when I believe He is alluding to the baptism with the Holy Ghost at salvation. That is why it is written those who do not believe in Him are not saved rather than those who do not believe and are not baptized are not saved.

Like I said, water baptism is an ordinance for new believers to follow as His disciples.

But I point out again Peter said how they got the remission of sins and that was by believing in Him.

And do note that Peter did not command them to be water baptized afterwards in order to receive the remissin of sins then.

That is why water baptism in Acts 2:38 has nothing to do with the remission of sins but repenting from unbelief by believing in Him was.

By quoting Acts 10 out of context(not reading to verse 48), you debunk Acts 2:38 and create 2 plans of salvation(remission of sin plans).

Classic example of how the division of religious doctrines are created.

Truther · Feb 17, 2020

Enow said:
No. That is why I'd say that believers are misapplying water baptism in Acts 2:38 as to how to get the remission of sins when Repent was mentioned first which is to repent from unbelief for why they had crucified Christ and thus by believing in Him is how they got the remission of sins as the Gentiles had plainly done.

There is only one gospel. The cause and effect is for you to discern by Him for why the Gentiles had received Him before water baptism when Peter said plainly to them that it was by believing in Him was how they were to receive the remission of sins and thus the gift of the Holy Ghost as a result before water baptism.

Think of believing in Him is how they got the remission of sins and thus becoming a new creature in Christ ( new wine bottles ) for how they were able to receive the promise of the forever indwelling Holy Ghost at their salvation as a testimony that they just had been saved by Jesus Christ.

Matthew 9:17 Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved.

Pick one....

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Or...

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and RECEIVE THE SPIRIT for the remission of sins, and ye shall BE BAPTIZED LATER.

Enow · Feb 17, 2020

Truther said:
Great commission....

The cause for the result for not believing in Him is the same cause for the result for believing in Him.

If not believing in Him is how they are damned, then believing in Him is how they are saved.

15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Hence Spirit baptism over water baptism because those who believe in Him are automatically baptized with the Holy Ghost before water baptism.

Great commission.....

47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

Can be applied to repentance from unbelief by believing in Him is why it is associated with remission of sins.

Great commission....

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Water baptism, not Spirit baptism.

Of that reference is undeniably water baptism, but it would be hard for you to prove that it is for salvation rather than for discipleship after salvation.

Truther · Feb 17, 2020

Enow said:
The cause for the result for not believing in Him is the same cause for the result for believing in Him.

If not believing in Him is how they are damned, then believing in Him is how they are saved.

15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Hence Spirit baptism over water baptism because those who believe in Him are automatically baptized with the Holy Ghost before water baptism.

47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

Can be applied to repentance from unbelief by believing in Him is why it is associated with remission of sins.

Of that reference is undeniably water baptism, but it would be hard for you to prove that it is for salvation rather than for discipleship after salvation.

All one does is say they "believe" and Spirit baptism comes automatic?

Tongues or any initial sign not necessary?

Please elaborate.

Enow · Feb 17, 2020

Truther said:
By quoting Acts 10 out of context(not reading to verse 48), you debunk Acts 2:38 and create 2 plans of salvation(remission of sin plans).

Classic example of how the division of religious doctrines are created.

I can say it is the other way around. So who is right? By how much emphasis Paul or even Peter placed on it for salvation.

1 Corinthians 1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect. 18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.... 21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

Do you read any emphasis on water baptism when believing the preaching of the cross is the power of God in salvation? No, but a definite deference from it. Now look at Peter... carefully with His help.

1 Peter 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

Water is used for the putting away of the filth of the flesh so that means not by water baptism BUT by the answer of a good conscience TOWARD God which is by believing in Him per the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Now address those two references as they clearly support how I apply those 2 verses in Acts as rightly dividing the word of truth by Him.

Enow · Feb 17, 2020

Truther said:
All one does is say they "believe" and Spirit baptism comes automatic?

Tongues or any initial sign not necessary?

Please elaborate.

Tongues are to serve as a sign towards the unbelievers; not as a sign towards the believers that they had received the Holy Ghost.

1 Corinthians 14:20 Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men. 21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. 22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

This the good report to be given by all believers.

Hebrews 11:1Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. 2 For by it the elders obtained a good report.

Galatians 3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.... 26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

Enow · Feb 17, 2020

Truther said:
Pick one....

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Or...

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and RECEIVE THE SPIRIT for the remission of sins, and ye shall BE BAPTIZED LATER.

More like..

38 Then Peter said unto them, Believe in Him, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Peter was addressing the Jews that had crucified Christ BECAUSE they had not believed in Him. They had asked Peter what they were to do. That is that form of rpeentance that Peter had called them to do which is to believe in Him. That is how they got the remission of sins as the Gentiles have done for why Peter said plainly how the Gentiles were to receive the remission of sins which was only by believing in Him.

So when you find the common denominator between the two events as to hwo one really receives the remission of sins, then you can see how and why God gave the Gentiles the gift of the Holy Ghost before water baptism and why water baptism is an ordinance for newly saved believers to follow in their first steps in following Him as His disciples.

Renniks · Feb 17, 2020

Truther said:
The baptism of the Holy Ghost does not remit the sins at all.

It causes sinners to want to have their sins remitted per water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ.

Wow, you believe people receive the Holy Ghost before salvation? That's so unbiblical.

Truther · Feb 17, 2020

Renniks said:
Wow, you believe people receive the Holy Ghost before salvation? That's so unbiblical.

No, I believe they get the Holy Ghost to lead them to water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of their sins, to save them.

Then, they need it to keep them in Christ after being buried with Christ in water baptism(his body).

Truther · Feb 17, 2020

Enow said:
More like..

38 Then Peter said unto them, Believe in Him, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Peter was addressing the Jews that had crucified Christ BECAUSE they had not believed in Him. They had asked Peter what they were to do. That is that form of rpeentance that Peter had called them to do which is to believe in Him. That is how they got the remission of sins as the Gentiles have done for why Peter said plainly how the Gentiles were to receive the remission of sins which was only by believing in Him.

So when you find the common denominator between the two events as to hwo one really receives the remission of sins, then you can see how and why God gave the Gentiles the gift of the Holy Ghost before water baptism and why water baptism is an ordinance for newly saved believers to follow in their first steps in following Him as His disciples.

Hopefully repenters believe, huh?

Truther · Feb 17, 2020

Enow said:
Tongues are to serve as a sign towards the unbelievers; not as a sign towards the believers that they had received the Holy Ghost.

1 Corinthians 14:20 Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men. 21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. 22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

This the good report to be given by all believers.

Hebrews 11:1Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. 2 For by it the elders obtained a good report.

Galatians 3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.... 26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.

46 For they heard them speak with tongues,...

Is Any Denomination Saved?

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