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amadeus

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I do not understand why you are such a condescending person. ("supposedly a reader and a teacher still you do not understand")

Marymog you certainly believe that you are right as I believe that I am right. Sometimes expressing what we believe to someone who either does not understand or understands but disagrees will appear to be condescending. Sometimes apparently there is no alternative if we going to communicate at all. I did not make it this way, but this is how it is.

WHO decides
which people not really willing to pay the price to get "in His name" and stay there??? YOU??

Likely I am able to make decisions which are binding on me. I can express an opinion regarding others or if God has revealed something to me about others I may be able to state that. Unless God has given me the power to decide for someone else, [and He has not], I cannot. Can you?

The reason for the
thousands of churches with disagreeing doctrines is because of heretical men rejecting the authoritative Church that Christ started. The Church that has the power to bind on earth what is bound in heaven.
I know that is your opinion or what you believe. I also know when you say Church, you mean Catholic Church. So then if you must, walk with that. I do not.
 

bbyrd009

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How can your perspective be valid AND other perspectives be valid??? Only one can be valid (the Truth). Your theory makes no sense.
ah...well, there are thought experiments and even demonstrations that would argue against that Mary, but im not sure they would serve here...suffice it to say that no less than Einstein has demonstrated that, contrary to what makes sense to us which is what you say more or less, life does not really work like that. And while i am flattered that you call it my theory, really just highlighting and searching the relevant phrases will lead anyone to the original thinkers for that. There is also plenty of Scripture, about one who says they know, and even meat-eating and offending, that apply to the concept i guess
 

Helen

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How can your perspective be valid AND other perspectives be valid??? Only one can be valid (the Truth). Your theory makes no sense.

Wow you have got some miles out of that old one haven't you..you pull it out of you pocket ever time..month in and month out.
Guess it works for you as 'an answer'.

One thing you said correctly to which we can all say AMEN.

Quote- " Only one can be valid (the Truth) "

The Lord Jesus Christ = Truth Himself
Not my truth, not your truth...but HIS truth.
 

Marymog

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Marymog you certainly believe that you are right as I believe that I am right. Sometimes expressing what we believe to someone who either does not understand or understands but disagrees will appear to be condescending. Sometimes apparently there is no alternative if we going to communicate at all. I did not make it this way, but this is how it is.
soooo no apology? :( The "alternative" is to NOT be condescending
 

Marymog

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Likely I am able to make decisions which are binding on me. I can express an opinion regarding others or if God has revealed something to me about others I may be able to state that. Unless God has given me the power to decide for someone else, [and He has not], I cannot. Can you?
YOU make decisions that are binding on YOU???? Scripture says that the Apostles (the Church elders at the time) had the power of binding. Are you suggesting that YOU have the power to bind? Scripture says that the Church makes decisions that are binding on us and what would happen to us if we refuse to listen to the Church (Matthew 18:17) since the Church is the pillar and foundation of truth (1 Timothy 3:15). Do you not believe the Church is the pillar and foundation of truth?

To answer your question (Can you?) I say......No, I can not....the Church does.....just like SCRIPTURE says.
 

Marymog

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I know that is your opinion or what you believe. I also know when you say Church, you mean Catholic Church. So then if you must, walk with that. I do not.
Nope, not my opinion. It is a FACT that heretical men have rejected the teaching of The Church which is why we have thousands of different denominations with their own doctrines.

And yes, you are right, when I say The Church I mean the CC. Scripture makes it clear that Jesus established a church with hierarchal authority. The Church is not invisible. Scripture makes it clear that the teachings of Jesus are NOT left up to the opinion of each individual member of The Church. Jesus established a Church built on a rock that the Apostles continued to build upon that the gates of hell will not prevail against. If it is not the CC that Jesus started then which Church is it Amadeus?

I KNOW you do not "walk with that". Your rejection of anyone elses authority over you puts you in your own church where you have authority over what you believe and you bind upon yourself what YOU believe instead of what The Church believes. You believe YOU are the pillar and foundation of truth with binding powers. I believe what Scripture says.
 

Marymog

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Wow you have got some miles out of that old one haven't you..you pull it out of you pocket ever time..month in and month out.
Guess it works for you as 'an answer'.

One thing you said correctly to which we can all say AMEN.

Quote- " Only one can be valid (the Truth) "

The Lord Jesus Christ = Truth Himself
Not my truth, not your truth...but HIS truth.
Thank you Helen.....

I have gotten a lot of miles out of it. ;) Ya' wanna know why? Because non of you Protestants (and I am a former one) can answer it so I keep asking it. Who's truth? Yours? Mine? The CC? The Baptist?? The Mormons? Most Christians would say the Mormons and any church that supports gay marriage are definitely wrong in their "Truth". But according to your statement (which is addressed in the next paragraph) NONE of us can say they are definitely wrong.

Your "answer" 'The Lord Jesus Christ = Truth Himself....HIS truth" is not really an answer but a statement. We can all agree that Jesus is "Truth Himself" and that he spoke the Truth. HOWEVER, and here is the key, it takes MAN to interpret that "Truth". Historically we know that the Apostles were the first men to do that at the Council of Jerusalem. While alive the Apostles were "The Church" and had the authority to interpret His word. Jesus gave them the power to bind and loosen.

Soooo I ask you Helen......when did man (or The Church) loose the authority to stop interpreting Scripture? After the last Apostle died?

When I was a Protestant I NEVER thought of the answer to those deep questions. I am thankful that I did start thinking about them. It led me away from the 500 year Protestant teachings (which are all different and contradictory) to the 2,000 year teachings of The Church.
Mary
 

Jane_Doe22

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Thank you Helen.....

I have gotten a lot of miles out of it. ;) Ya' wanna know why? Because non of you Protestants (and I am a former one) can answer it so I keep asking it. Who's truth? Yours? Mine? The CC? The Baptist?? The Mormons? Most Christians would say the Mormons and any church that supports gay marriage are definitely wrong in their "Truth". But according to your statement (which is addressed in the next paragraph) NONE of us can say they are definitely wrong.

Your "answer" 'The Lord Jesus Christ = Truth Himself....HIS truth" is not really an answer but a statement. We can all agree that Jesus is "Truth Himself" and that he spoke the Truth. HOWEVER, and here is the key, it takes MAN to interpret that "Truth". Historically we know that the Apostles were the first men to do that at the Council of Jerusalem. While alive the Apostles were "The Church" and had the authority to interpret His word. Jesus gave them the power to bind and loosen.

Soooo I ask you Helen......when did man (or The Church) loose the authority to stop interpreting Scripture? After the last Apostle died?

When I was a Protestant I NEVER thought of the answer to those deep questions. I am thankful that I did start thinking about them. It led me away from the 500 year Protestant teachings (which are all different and contradictory) to the 2,000 year teachings of The Church.
Mary
Deep question for you Mary:
How does Christ personally impact and lead you?
Not any human intermediary. I want to hear about only you+Christ.
Once you can answer that question, and actually answer it, then we can start building a bridge to talk about things.
 

amadeus

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soooo no apology? :( The "alternative" is to NOT be condescending
Apology? What is your definition of condescending? When you state definitely that the CC is God's church and being anyplace else constitutes error.... is there no condescending involved in that? Is heavy sarcasm and openly impolite criticism of my beliefs and the beliefs of others a better form of behavior requiring no apologies on your part? Will you apologize to us for standing for what you believe?
 
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amadeus

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YOU make decisions that are binding on YOU???? Scripture says that the Apostles (the Church elders at the time) had the power of binding. Are you suggesting that YOU have the power to bind?
My decisions which I make are mine, right or wrong. This the free will that God has given to each of us to choose God or mammon. That is all that I am saying.

Scripture says
that the Church makes decisions that are binding on us and what would happen to us if we refuse to listen to the Church (Matthew 18:17) since the Church is the pillar and foundation of truth (1 Timothy 3:15). Do you not believe the Church is the pillar and foundation of truth?

To answer your question (Can you?) I say......No, I can not....the Church does.....just like SCRIPTURE says.
All of those questions and any answers I might make would dependent on what each of us mean by unless we agreed the Church is. We do not!
 

amadeus

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Nope, not my opinion. It is a FACT that heretical men have rejected the teaching of The Church which is why we have thousands of different denominations with their own doctrines.

And yes, you are right, when I say The Church I mean the CC. Scripture makes it clear that Jesus established a church with hierarchal authority. The Church is not invisible. Scripture makes it clear that the teachings of Jesus are NOT left up to the opinion of each individual member of The Church. Jesus established a Church built on a rock that the Apostles continued to build upon that the gates of hell will not prevail against. If it is not the CC that Jesus started then which Church is it Amadeus?

I KNOW you do not "walk with that". Your rejection of anyone elses authority over you puts you in your own church where you have authority over what you believe and you bind upon yourself what YOU believe instead of what The Church believes. You believe YOU are the pillar and foundation of truth with binding powers. I believe what Scripture says.

You wish to follow the CC. I seek rather to be led by the Spirit of God:

"For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God." Rom 8:4
 

Marymog

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Deep question for you Mary:
How does Christ personally impact and lead you?
Not any human intermediary. I want to hear about only you+Christ.
Once you can answer that question, and actually answer it, then we can start building a bridge to talk about things.
Hi Jane Doe,

Christ personal impact on me? It is by following Him (becoming one of his disciples) that I am saved.

So the question then becomes 'what must I do to truly follow Him and be saved?'. If I make it about ME being the "human intermediary" in interpreting His words on what it takes to truly follow Him to be saved then I have personally decided what the truth of Scripture is. However, Scripture says that the church is the pillar and foundation of truth and that the church decides who is to be treated as a pagan or tax collector if we don't practice/believe what the church teaches. YOU have a "human intermediary". That intermediary is YOU. For me it is the magisterium of The Church. I believe The Church teaches the truth.

Soooo my question to you Jane Doe: Is the church ever wrong in what it teaches?

Curious Mary
 

Marymog

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Apology? What is your definition of condescending? When you state definitely that the CC is God's church and being anyplace else constitutes error.... is there no condescending involved in that? Is heavy sarcasm and openly impolite criticism of my beliefs and the beliefs of others a better form of behavior requiring no apologies on your part? Will you apologize to us for standing for what you believe?
I quoted from you what I thought were condescending remarks. It appears you don't think you were condescending sooooo we will move on.

If not the CC Church then which Church is Gods Church?

I have criticized your beliefs because they are CLEARLY opposite of what Scripture says and opposite of what has been taught for 2,000 years. Even the men who disagreed with the Protestant Reformers don't agree with your theory. Your theory would be very bizarre to them. Your beliefs (about eating His body/drinking His blood) can not and do not hold up to the context of any passage from Scripture ESPECIALLY 1 Corinthians 11:23-29!!!

So to answer your question: Will you apologize to us for standing for what you believe?

The answer is NO!! Why would I apologize for standing up for the Truth?

Mary
 

Marymog

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My decisions which I make are mine, right or wrong. This the free will that God has given to each of us to choose God or mammon. That is all that I am saying.
God did NOT give us the free will to decide who is right or wrong when it comes to Church teaching. Choosing "God or mammon" has NOTHING to do with choosing what we want to believe when it comes to our own PERSONAL interpretation of Scripture!!! Have you forgotten about Matthew 18:17?? Have you forgotten about the Council of Jerusalem?? :(

Mary
 

Jane_Doe22

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Hi Jane Doe,

Christ personal impact on me? It is by following Him (becoming one of his disciples) that I am saved.

So the question then becomes 'what must I do to truly follow Him and be saved?'. If I make it about ME being the "human intermediary" in interpreting His words on what it takes to truly follow Him to be saved then I have personally decided what the truth of Scripture is. However, Scripture says that the church is the pillar and foundation of truth and that the church decides who is to be treated as a pagan or tax collector if we don't practice/believe what the church teaches. YOU have a "human intermediary". That intermediary is YOU. For me it is the magisterium of The Church. I believe The Church teaches the truth.

Soooo my question to you Jane Doe: Is the church ever wrong in what it teaches?

Curious Mary
I ask you about you+God. No one else. And then your answer is about inviting another person into the room.