I observe the Sabbath on....

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DNB

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Ones behaviour reveals ones core. Hypocrisy is when ones behaviour is not consistent with ones profession.
Is it really concluded that nobody keeps count? Can we boast of acting with love in our hearts yet break God's Commandments?

The danger is substituting presumption for faith....Are you really thankful for God's Grace by calling keeping his Commandments legalism??

Any rope will hold until it is tested. The testing time is coming upon us faster than is realised.....and who will be able to stand?
You should be aware that I was simply differentiating between the true faith, and that of the Judaizers. No one is condoning illicit behaviour. And, like I said, when motives are derived from love, this should keep most of our actions in check and in align with God's will. Therefore, any scrutiny after this fact, is verging on legalism. It was a question and a warning, not an accusation, ...as of yet.
 

DNB

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We could argue whether Santa Claus is keeping count; but I think we can be sure that God keeps track. I think maybe you've been taught a lie, so I am not laying blame at your door, not if you've been deceived by others.

Jesus may rescue us when we were unable to help ourselves. In that way, surely we can see the gift of salvation as freely given. He does expect us to change however. He didn't die and suffer so we could continue in our depravities. If we are shown by the Holy Spirit how something is wrong since it injures others, we cannot expect to do it and get away with it. We are his servants, bought with a price.

When Jesus made it possible to take sinners and make saints out of them, what excuse do we have then if we are lazy or disobedient when we know better?

We will be judge by our works, by our deeds -- and I repeat we have no excuse for sins we commit knowingly and willingly when Jesus has made it possible to do good by rescuing us from the bondage of this world. It is consistently described in several places in the Bible that we will be judged by our works. Salvation cannot be earned by works -- but we will be judged by our works.

Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Read the whole post, and try to understand it, please?

But, we don't legislate good works anymore, do we? We act upon the love in our hearts, that is derived from appreciating God's grace, Jesus' efforts and love, and our neighbour's well-being.
And yet, with all this in mind, I still sin every day, in both action and thought, ...but who's keeping count?


No one is condoning iniquitous behaviour, everyone is trying their best by acting out of love. But, even after this fact, we all sin. It is to this intent, that we feel legalism may creep in after the fact.
 

Giuliano

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Read the whole post, and try to understand it, please?

But, we don't legislate good works anymore, do we? We act upon the love in our hearts, that is derived from appreciating God's grace, Jesus' efforts and love, and our neighbour's well-being.
And yet, with all this in mind, I still sin every day, in both action and thought, ...but who's keeping count?


No one is condoning iniquitous behaviour, everyone is trying their best by acting out of love. But, even after this fact, we all sin. It is to this intent, that we feel legalism may creep in after the fact.
I did read it all and I can give you a line by line analysis. I thought I would skip some of the other things I found questionable; but here goes:

Hi Oligos, ...wow, sounding pretty Jewish to me?
Not so much as a Sunday observer, necessarily, but as a 'Sabbath' and 10 commandment follower (as it appears that you think that Sunday is the Sabbath Day).
You're sounding a little legalistic, ...are you?
You may not have meant that as an insult, but it looked like one to me. Without saying as much, you seemed to be drawing a comparison to the hypocrites of Jesus' day. I thought that unkind. Someone trying to honor God by keeping either Sundays or Saturdays is not being legalistic in my book. I don't know people's motives for the days they keep, so I would not charge someone with being legalistic over it. If they are obeying their consciences, I even commend them for it, although I may not be doing the same things.

Obviously you understand the principle of faith, and how it supersedes the Law, both in mandate and principle?
I don't think I understand this "principle of faith" the way you do, not if you think it "supersedes the Law" somehow. Jesus said he didn't come to do away with the Law. He also told people to "keep my commandments." What commandments might those be, do you think? Do you think Jesus did away with the commandments of the Old Testament and then issued new commandments? If so, what might those "new commandments" be? I can think of one.

John 13:34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.

David said the Law was perfect. If that's true, why would Jesus do away with it? Why did he say he didn't come to do away with it?

I understand that, intrinsically speaking, righteousness is truth and power, and that conversely, iniquity is hypocrisy, depravity and spiritual death. But, we don't legislate good works anymore, do we? We act upon the love in our hearts, that is derived from appreciating God's grace, Jesus' efforts and love, and our neighbour's well-being.
And yet, with all this in mind, I still sin every day, in both action and thought, ...but who's keeping count?
I do not see how someone can be sinning while acting upon the love in his heart. Putting those two together like that sounds impossible to me.
 
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Seasoned by Grace

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Well, Well. I leave for a day and I came back to a "pretty Fiesty" number of posts.

Are all of you aware of 2nd Timothy 2:14, "solemnly charge them in the presence of God not to "Wrangle" about words, which is useless, and "LEADS TO THE RUIN OF HEARERS".

This is about twisting the word of God to suit your own beliefs, and tearing others down for theirs, that oppose yours.

Have you heard that we are known as Christians, for the love and respect we have for one another.

It seems to me as I get more familiar here, that unless I'm mistaken, and I don't think I am, that most of you come here to "wrangle" over Gods word, and use this forum as a justification for just arguing like little children, in trying to show everyone how well-versed you are and not how Godly you are.
When are you going to start growing up, and as least here, start to honor God and bring Him Glory instead of disappointing God in your immature childish behavior.
I'm not talking to you all, but there are a lot of you who need to repent.

I've been on enough Christian forums that arguing and getting into verbal "Donny-brooks" and verbal "Free-for-alls, is the accepted norm and I'm sick of it.
Have any of you read about UNITY IN THE BODY - I THINK NOT, as I read your posts.

Are most of you just bored and need a good fight to spice up your life. Maybe you have no life and you just come here to get some attention like a deprived child.
I know, I know, some of you are going to dog-pile me because I hurt your feeling - Well do your best as I've had experts try and do the same thing, with "ZERO" results.
Oh - Christians aren't supposed to talk like this? You better read your bibles again about "ADMONISHMENT" in the church
I raised 5 kids and I feel like I'm right back there when they were children.
Quit the fighting and start LOVING EACH OTHER.

ANY "BLOW_BACK" I'LL JUST IGNORE - YES I'M YELLING NOW. I'M sick of this.
IN ALL THAT WE DO, DO TO THE GLORY OF GOD

I love you all more than you'll ever know!!!
my name is OLIGOS
 

DNB

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You may not have meant that as an insult, but it looked like one to me. Without saying as much, you seemed to be drawing a comparison to the hypocrites of Jesus' day.
I was comparing Oligos' understanding of Christian theology, with that of the Judaizers, who Paul was ever contending with.

I don't think I understand this "principle of faith" the way you do, not if you think it "supersedes the Law" somehow. Jesus said he didn't come to do away with the Law. He also told people to "keep my commandments." What commandments might those be, do you think? Do you think Jesus did away with the commandments of the Old Testament and then issued new commandments? If so, what might those "new commandments" be? I can think of one.
I believe in the principle of faith over works. Not unto licentiousness or sin, but unto love for God's grace and mercy, and Christ's love for God and man. And therefore, we act accordingly as any sincerely grateful person would do. But, we do not legislate our actions at this point i.e. must pray 5 times a day, dietary laws, laws of attire, don't swear, cuss or curse, ... For, if we do fail, there is no prescription outside of recognizing the sin and overcoming it through wisdom and prayer. That is, one is not in the 'dog-house'.

David said the Law was perfect. If that's true, why would Jesus do away with it? Why did he say he didn't come to do away with it?
Appreciate superlatives and hyperbole used throughout the Bible. Under a legalistic system, the Law was perfect. But 'mercy overrides justice' (James 2:13).
Guiliano, it sounds lie you are unaware of the elementary principles of the Christian faith, seriously?
Hebrews 7:11-27 read entire pericope.
This is an excerpt
Hebrews 7:11-12
7:11. Now if perfection was through the Levitical priesthood (for on the basis of it the people received the Law), what further need was there for another priest to arise according to the order of Melchizedek, and not be designated according to the order of Aaron? 12. For when the priesthood is changed, of necessity there takes place a change of law also.


I do not see how someone can be sinning while acting upon the love in his heart. Putting those two together like that sounds impossible to me.
Giuliano please, are you unaware of what I am saying? Have you reached perfection yourself???? Don't even try to tell me 'yes'.
That is all that I am saying. I recognize the grace that I am under, and try to behave with the gratitude and love that is warranted from such a dispensation. BUT AM I NOT PERFECT YET, AM I? But even so, there is no law that obligates me to offer sacrifice, cite 5 Hail Marys, do penance , not work on this day or that day, or observe this holiday or that one.
You know what I mean, right?
 

DNB

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Well, Well. I leave for a day and I came back to a "pretty Fiesty" number of posts.

Are all of you aware of 2nd Timothy 2:14, "solemnly charge them in the presence of God not to "Wrangle" about words, which is useless, and "LEADS TO THE RUIN OF HEARERS".

This is about twisting the word of God to suit your own beliefs, and tearing others down for theirs, that oppose yours.

Have you heard that we are known as Christians, for the love and respect we have for one another.

It seems to me as I get more familiar here, that unless I'm mistaken, and I don't think I am, that most of you come here to "wrangle" over Gods word, and use this forum as a justification for just arguing like little children, in trying to show everyone how well-versed you are and not how Godly you are.
When are you going to start growing up, and as least here, start to honor God and bring Him Glory instead of disappointing God in your immature childish behavior.
I'm not talking to you all, but there are a lot of you who need to repent.

I've been on enough Christian forums that arguing and getting into verbal "Donny-brooks" and verbal "Free-for-alls, is the accepted norm and I'm sick of it.
Have any of you read about UNITY IN THE BODY - I THINK NOT, as I read your posts.

Are most of you just bored and need a good fight to spice up your life. Maybe you have no life and you just come here to get some attention like a deprived child.
I know, I know, some of you are going to dog-pile me because I hurt your feeling - Well do your best as I've had experts try and do the same thing, with "ZERO" results.
Oh - Christians aren't supposed to talk like this? You better read your bibles again about "ADMONISHMENT" in the church
I raised 5 kids and I feel like I'm right back there when they were children.
Quit the fighting and start LOVING EACH OTHER.

ANY "BLOW_BACK" I'LL JUST IGNORE - YES I'M YELLING NOW. I'M sick of this.
IN ALL THAT WE DO, DO TO THE GLORY OF GOD

I love you all more than you'll ever know!!!
my name is OLIGOS
Out of your own mouth Oligos, admonishment works both ways. Do you prefer that we overlook heresy or subversive sentiments on the forum?
Not that our opinions define heresy and perverse beliefs, necessarily, but that is the intent of rebuke and correction.
 

LC627

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Oh wow Seasoned by Grace , so does all the things "you do" make you feel so much better and more righteous than those who WILL be here tomorrow!!

Im not sure I can see much Grace if any, in your post. o_O
It is a kind of ironic post, lol.
 

lforrest

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Isn't the Sabbath a shadow of the Lord's rest? I am only scratching the surface here, but the last day of creation is focusing on the end, it is from a temporal perspective looking forward to eternal life. Sunday is looking back to the beginning, our beginning in eternity for those who already have eternal life. Regardless all the days are still shadows of what is in heaven, but they still have value as memorials.
 

Giuliano

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I was comparing Oligos' understanding of Christian theology, with that of the Judaizers, who Paul was ever contending with.


I believe in the principle of faith over works. Not unto licentiousness or sin, but unto love for God's grace and mercy, and Christ's love for God and man. And therefore, we act accordingly as any sincerely grateful person would do. But, we do not legislate our actions at this point i.e. must pray 5 times a day, dietary laws, laws of attire, don't swear, cuss or curse, ... For, if we do fail, there is no prescription outside of recognizing the sin and overcoming it through wisdom and prayer. That is, one is not in the 'dog-house'.


Appreciate superlatives and hyperbole used throughout the Bible. Under a legalistic system, the Law was perfect. But 'mercy overrides justice' (James 2:13).
Guiliano, it sounds lie you are unaware of the elementary principles of the Christian faith, seriously?
Hebrews 7:11-27 read entire pericope.
This is an excerpt
Hebrews 7:11-12
7:11. Now if perfection was through the Levitical priesthood (for on the basis of it the people received the Law), what further need was there for another priest to arise according to the order of Melchizedek, and not be designated according to the order of Aaron? 12. For when the priesthood is changed, of necessity there takes place a change of law also.



Giuliano please, are you unaware of what I am saying? Have you reached perfection yourself???? Don't even try to tell me 'yes'.
That is all that I am saying. I recognize the grace that I am under, and try to behave with the gratitude and love that is warranted from such a dispensation. BUT AM I NOT PERFECT YET, AM I? But even so, there is no law that obligates me to offer sacrifice, cite 5 Hail Marys, do penance , not work on this day or that day, or observe this holiday or that one.
You know what I mean, right?
Your tone continues to be counterproductive. That is the kindest way I can think of expressing my reaction.
 

GerhardEbersoehn

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I asked you for Scripture for alleging: <<The Sabbath was given to Israel. The Bible says that.>>

I'll quote more of the passage.

13 Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the Lord that doth sanctify you.
14 Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.
15 Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the Lord: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.
16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.



Got it? It was for Israel. Are Christians under that covenant or do they have a different covenant? I tell you my ancestors were not at Sinai. They did not make covenant with God at Sinai. It doesn't apply to me.

Get what? That Israel was commanded, "Verily my - God's - sabbaths ye shall keep"? Does <<The Bible say that The Sabbath was given to Israel>>?

Get what? That <<The Bible says that The Sabbath was given to Israel>> where it says the Sabbath "is a sign .. that ye may know that I am the Lord" of the Sabbath?

Get what? That <<The Bible says that The Sabbath was given to Israel>> where it says 14 Ye shall keep the - My - Sabbath therefore for / because it (My Sabbath), is holy / set apart for you to respect as Day Holy unto ME"? "15 Six days may work be done; but (in / on) the Seventh Day is the DAY the Sabbath-of-rest-holy-to-the-LORD-DAY: whosoever doeth any work in MY (the) Sabbath-DAY, he (that puny man) shall surely be put to death" ?

This is "the Son of Man ..
Lord of the Sabbath Day" jealously claiming HIS LORDSHIP OVER AND POSSESSION OF HIS, "MY HOLY DAY", what <<giving it to Israel>> the breakers, desecrators and haters of "the Sabbath-OF-THE-LORD GOD".
 
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DNB

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Your tone continues to be counterproductive. That is the kindest way I can think of expressing my reaction.
I am not promoting sin, I am saying that even the most well intending and disciplined Christians, sin. Thus, if that is the case, that people truly abhor sin, those do not count and monitor their sins. But again, try to catch them, understand the error, and desist.
 

GerhardEbersoehn

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Well, Well. I leave for a day and I came back to a "pretty Fiesty" number of posts.

Are all of you aware of 2nd Timothy 2:14, "solemnly charge them in the presence of God not to "Wrangle" about words, which is useless, and "LEADS TO THE RUIN OF HEARERS".

This is about twisting the word of God to suit your own beliefs, and tearing others down for theirs, that oppose yours.

Have you heard that we are known as Christians, for the love and respect we have for one another.

It seems to me as I get more familiar here, that unless I'm mistaken, and I don't think I am, that most of you come here to "wrangle" over Gods word, and use this forum as a justification for just arguing like little children, in trying to show everyone how well-versed you are and not how Godly you are.
When are you going to start growing up, and as least here, start to honor God and bring Him Glory instead of disappointing God in your immature childish behavior.
I'm not talking to you all, but there are a lot of you who need to repent.

I've been on enough Christian forums that arguing and getting into verbal "Donny-brooks" and verbal "Free-for-alls, is the accepted norm and I'm sick of it.
Have any of you read about UNITY IN THE BODY - I THINK NOT, as I read your posts.

Are most of you just bored and need a good fight to spice up your life. Maybe you have no life and you just come here to get some attention like a deprived child.
I know, I know, some of you are going to dog-pile me because I hurt your feeling - Well do your best as I've had experts try and do the same thing, with "ZERO" results.
Oh - Christians aren't supposed to talk like this? You better read your bibles again about "ADMONISHMENT" in the church
I raised 5 kids and I feel like I'm right back there when they were children.
Quit the fighting and start LOVING EACH OTHER.

ANY "BLOW_BACK" I'LL JUST IGNORE - YES I'M YELLING NOW. I'M sick of this.
IN ALL THAT WE DO, DO TO THE GLORY OF GOD

I love you all more than you'll ever know!!!
my name is OLIGOS

Poor man. Consult your psychiatrist.
 

GerhardEbersoehn

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How many times do you want it?
You have not given Scripture that says, <<The Sabbath was given to Israel.>>, once. You never will because there is no Scripture that says, <<The Sabbath was given to Israel.>>, or remotely implies it was. As long as Scripture reads "the Sabbath OF THE LORD GOD", you can repeat <<The Sabbath was given to Israel>> and "The Seventh Day Sabbath-Day-of-rest OF THE LORD GOD", "shall remain for the People of God" -- for "True Believers" Jesus said, who would "worship neither here nor there but IN SPIRIT AND IN TRUTH WHERE AND WHEN TWO OR THREE ARE GATHERED TOGETHER IN MY NAME."
 
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Enoch111

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You have not given Scripture that says, <<The Sabbath was given to Israel.>>, once. You never will because there is no Scripture that says, <<The Sabbath was given to Israel.>>, or remotely implies it was.
Gerhard. You should know better. Who are "the children of Israel" other than the twelve tribes descended from Jacob/Israel.

And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, Concerning the feasts of the LORD, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations,even these are my feasts. Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work therein: it is the sabbath of the LORD in all your dwellings. (Lev 23:1-3)
 
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Giuliano

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Jews who do not worship Jesus as Lord are observing idol worship, no matter which day they observe.
Do not be foolish. If you have a different idea about God than the Jews have, perhaps you should remember that Jesus said the Jews had it right.

John 4:22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.

Ha, ha, perhaps it is you who do not know what you worship. I suggest reading Deuteronomy 13 too. Israel was told never to change that idea about God. No future revelations would be altering it.

Do you seriously think God has varied over time?
 

Seasoned by Grace

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God bless you all
The Sabbath isn't something I choose to observe because I didn't know enough at the time when I started to make that choice. As I was walking out of church about 12 years ago one Sunday morning, I heard a voice I recognized, the Holy Spirit, say that I should start observing the Sabbath, and specifically do it on Sunday. Since that time it has been such a blessing in my heart and my faith, as I feel complete now in my walk, not as a work, but as a way to honor the same calling on my heart, as when I was called by God to be saved.
None of you may understand any of this and it may go against your beliefs,, but I find such peace and contentment and Joy in my observance.

Several years ago I was called by God to study observing the Sabbath, I think so I could explain it to others who asked but didn't condemn me.(Hard to explain anything when your being condemned)
It's wonderful to understand now why as a Christian God would call me to observe the Sabbath each week, as it confused me to, as it does some of you here.

As the Holy Spirit lead me through the scriptures over a several year study, even going back to the Old Testament at times, God was gracious to open my eyes and heart to understand as it made more and more sense as I studied.

I know what all of you were taught because I was taught the same thing, and over time, at least for me, as I was lead, I had to un-learn and re-learn not just this but several other things He retaught me also.
At times it was just as frustrating to me to see the truth, as it was frustrating for you to hear what little I said.

I am not a legalist or rule keeper, I love my lord like all of you, and I'm not under the law, but I do obey it, including the 4th Commandment.
Some parts of my faith may be different than yours, but God never said we had to fit in a box and be like everyone else.
I follow and do as my Lord leads me and have for over 40 years, and God has never let me down, or lead me to a place I didn't belong. At 76 years old, I've had plenty of time in my 42 year faith to validate who I should be WITH God, and am peacefully at rest where my faith is and where my personal relationship is with my Savior.

Romans 14:5 says, as it was quoted here before, "One man regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Let each man be fully convinced in His own mind".
Romans 14:22 says, "The faith which you have, have as your own conviction before God, happy is he who doesn't condemn himself in what he approves."

May God bless you all as you continue your walk, just as I do.
My name is OLIGOS
 
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