John's Water Baptism But Now Spirit Baptism

Oh good grief...

Enow said:

Have you ever wondered how John the Baptist prepared the way for the Lord?

Mark 1:2 As it is written in the prophets, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee. 3 The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight. 4 John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins. 5 And there went out unto him all the land of Judaea, and they of Jerusalem, and were all baptized of him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins. 6 And John was clothed with camel's hair, and with a girdle of a skin about his loins; and he did eat locusts and wild honey; 7 And preached, saying, There cometh one mightier than I after me, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to stoop down and unloose. 8 I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.

John the Baptist water baptized for the remission of sins, but Jesus shall baptize us with the Holy Ghost for the remission of sins. Was that how John the Baptist prepared the way for the Lord? So then how does one receive the Holy Ghost for the remission of sins?

By believing in Jesus Christ.

Acts 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. 44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

These Gentile believers had received the remission of sins by believing in Jesus Christ and they had received the baptism with the Holy Ghost as a result.

Galatians 3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith...26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

Water baptism is an ordinance for new believers to follow after Christ by. It is not necessary for salvation but necessary for being His disciple.

1 Corinthians 1: 17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect. 18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. ……. 21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

That is how Jesus saves us by our believing in Him for the remission of sins for why He baptizes us with the Holy Ghost at our salvation at the calling of the gospel.

That is how John's water baptism of repentance for the remission of sins prepared the way for the Lord so that when people repent from unbelief by believing in Him for the remission of sins, is why they are born again of the Spirit at their salvation.

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I like your post. Repentance IS the preparation of the ground of our heart for His entrance into us.

I just kind of shake my head when an argument about water baptism tries to start because I've never had one and yet I received the Holy Spirit. I know my experience is not everyone elses.

stunnedbygrace said:

I just kind of shake my head when an argument about water baptism tries to start because I've never had one and yet I received the Holy Spirit.

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Well if you have been baptized with the Holy Spirit then the first thing to have happened would have been Christian baptism. Again see Acts 10. So you should make sure that you follow through with that commandment of Christ.

Enoch111 said:

Well if you have been baptized with the Holy Spirit then the first thing to have happened would have been Christian baptism. Again see Acts 10. So you should make sure that you follow through with that commandment of Christ.

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Yeah well that's not how it happened with me. I received the Holy Spirit having not been water baptized. At this point, having been led by the Spirit for over 13 years, it just isn't a thing I'm inclined to rush out and do.

Enow said:

John's water baptism of repentance for the remission of sins is changed to repenting from unbelief by believing in Him for the remission of sins whereby one receives the gift of the Holy Ghost at their salvation..

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You are still comparing apples and oranges. John's baptism by immersion in water was replaced by Christian baptism, also by immersion in water. You are simply going to confuse someone who does not know better.

Spirit baptism is a totally separate issue, and Christian water baptism is NOT for the remission of sins either. That is an internal matter, since it is inner repentance for the remission of sins, FOLLOWED BY external water baptism by immersion.

stunnedbygrace said:

...it just isn't a thing I'm inclined to rush out and do.

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If the Lord Jesus Christ confronted you personally today and gave you a commandment, would you rush out and do it, or argue with Him? He is the one who gave that commandment before His ascension, and it is still binding on every Christian. Christian baptism is NOT an option. Indeed it is very closely tied to conversion. So study the Word and then obey it.

And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. (Mark 16:15,16)

Been through this before like...20 times. Or more. With as many men and women. Some of them were even MORE confused than you are.

I guess I could go back to the church where the pastor said some of the miracles did not literally happen and ask him to baptize me. Or maybe the one where they told me to wear a dress next time or I wasn't welcome back. Or maybe the one where I was at the pastors 7 bedroom house to estimate a job for him and heard him screaming at and cursing at his maid. Maybe one of them will baptize me. Oh no, wait, maybe the one where the "prophet" said if your prayer shawl doesn't have red trim it will do you no good. I could have that pastor baptize me AND I could buy a prayer shawl that works!

No thanks.

Ephesians 4:5 there is "one baptism" now in effect in this present gospel dispensation and that 'one baptism' is Christ's baptism of the great commission (Matthew 28:19-20; Mark 16:15-16; Luke 24:47) which replaced John's baptism beginning at Pentecost in Acts 2:38. This baptism had disciples (humans) administering water baptism (Acts of the Apostles 8:38), this one water baptism saves/remits sins, Mark 16:16; Acts of the Apostles 2:38; 1 Peter 3:21; etc) it is commanded, it's how disciples are made and lasts till the end of time (Matthew 28:19-20; Acts 2:38).
None of these things are true about any kind of 'spirit' baptism.

Joel's prophecy (Joel 2:28 cf Acts of the Apostles 2:16-18) of God's Spirit being poured out upon all flesh (all flesh being both groups Jew and Gentile) has been fulfilled (ceased, ended) with the Apostles (Jews) in Acts 2 and Cornelius (Gentile) Acts 10.

Acts 2:38
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 10:47-48
47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

Acts 2:38
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 19:1-6
1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

1 Peter 3:20-21
20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh,
but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:


Seem to be the practice of the church, who changed it ?

If we Knick pick just one verse on salvation you may find at least maybe more than 10 different ways to be saved only.
Like believe in Jesus you shall be saved and just leave it at that.
Or take all NT verses on salvation and put it all together into one caboodle .

Enow said:

Have you ever wondered how John the Baptist prepared the way for the Lord?
John the Baptist water baptized for the remission of sins, but Jesus shall baptize us with the Holy Ghost for the remission of sins. Was that how John the Baptist prepared the way for the Lord? So then how does one receive the Holy Ghost for the remission of sins?
By believing in Jesus Christ.
These Gentile believers had received the remission of sins by believing in Jesus Christ and they had received the baptism with the Holy Ghost as a result.

Water baptism is an ordinance for new believers to follow after Christ by. It is not necessary for salvation but necessary for being His disciple.
That is how Jesus saves us by our believing in Him for the remission of sins for why He baptizes us with the Holy Ghost at our salvation at the calling of the gospel.
That is how John's water baptism of repentance for the remission of sins prepared the way for the Lord so that when people repent from unbelief by believing in Him for the remission of sins, is why they are born again of the Spirit at their salvation.

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Hi Enow, my understanding is that John's baptism was both a preliminary and symbolic gesture, in order to prepare and inaugurate the coming of the Lord. It was a dramatic and visible symbol, in order to declare and emphasize this monumental circumstance.
But due, both to its preliminary and physical nature, I understand it to be temporal, and therefore, inefficacious towards actual salvation.
Just for the record, simply due to it being an act of works, the Reformed camp reject it as being obligatory towards absolution. I'm not Reformed, but it's a valid point.

Although, there are two passages that come to mind that would challenge my view.

Acts 8:35-39
8:35. Then Philip opened his mouth, and beginning from this Scripture he preached Jesus to him. 36. As they went along the road they came to some water; and the eunuch said, "Look! Water! What prevents me from being baptized?" 37. [ And Philip said, "If you believe with all your heart, you may." And he answered and said, "I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God."] 38. And he ordered the chariot to stop; and they both went down into the water, Philip as well as the eunuch, and he baptized him. 39. When they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord snatched Philip away; and the eunuch no longer saw him, but went on his way rejoicing.

Acts 10:47-48
10:47. "Surely no one can refuse the water for these to be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we did, can he?" 48. And he ordered them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to stay on for a few days.

I cannot explain these passages, for I do believe that a greater baptism has come, and thus cannot perceive the necessity of such a physical and symbol act, as practically and authentically having any merit towards redemption?

And, as far as Baptism by the Holy Spirit is concerned, I believe that it is extremely rare ever since the Apostolic age, and personally, have yet to see it in anyone (seriously, despite the claims). This often came with the laying on of hands by Apostles. So, I consider this to be a 'bonus' baptism, not the defacto position, which comes simply by repentance, and faith in Christ, and recognizing him as Lord and Saviour.
Again, I know what the promise of the Holy Spirit is, and believe in its availability. But don't try to tell me for one minute, that anyone on this forum, including myself, have been endowed with it (really, don't try). Even still, we are all Christians simply by accepting the Gospel of Christ.

1 Timothy 4:14. Do not neglect the spiritual gift within you, which was bestowed on you through prophetic utterance with the laying on of hands by the presbytery.
2 Timothy 1:6. For this reason I remind you to kindle afresh the gift of God which is in you through the laying on of my hands.