OT saints are they saved ?

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Bible_Gazer

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So the OT Moses Laws salvation plan is no longer in affect, so those who live by it are not saved as of today ?

As for in the OT, Abraham was saved by faith not by a law in his beginning with God. Even tho later he had laws to live by from God.

Salvation plans has changed through times.
Obedience------ faith-------Mosaic Laws-------- faith in the son of God.
They all had to believe in God to be saved.
Hebrews 11 - Yet they the OT did not have the promises to complete their salvation - Jesus and HG
So did they get the promise it in Matthew 27:52-53 ?

Eternal life wasn't given till after Jesus - right ? Heb. 11 says they all died, that would show OT salvation plan wasn't enough.
 

SovereignGrace

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So the OT Moses Laws salvation plan is no longer in affect, so those who live by it are not saved as of today ?

As for in the OT, Abraham was saved by faith not by a law in his beginning with God. Even tho later he had laws to live by from God.

Salvation plans has changed through times.
Obedience------ faith-------Mosaic Laws-------- faith in the son of God.
They all had to believe in God to be saved.
Hebrews 11 - Yet they the OT did not have the promises to complete their salvation - Jesus and HG
So did they get the promise it in Matthew 27:52-53 ?

Eternal life wasn't given till after Jesus - right ? Heb. 11 says they all died, that would show OT salvation plan wasn't enough.
Remember, the Law was not something that saved anyone. None were able to keep it. In fact, all the Law did was two things, condemn and cause ppl to look to Him, knowing they could not keep it. The OT saints were saved by grace through faith. The Law was the tutor that led them to God[Galatians 3:24].
 

VictoryinJesus

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No one is saved before the end of their lives. Then comes judgment.

So already you are speaking from a man-made religious indoctrination.

And we will all be judged against what we have been given. So then you may be surprised on just what salvation actually means. salvation for some will not be a cheerful thing.

Curious of your perspective on “some men’s sins are open beforehand, going before to judgement...1 Timothy 5:24 Some men's sins are open beforehand, going before to judgment; and some men they follow after.

You also said “the end of their lives” “then comes judgement” if any man be in Christ has the end of his life not come and “the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith of the Son of God.” (Galatians 2:20)
 

Enow

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Just pondering

OT saints are they saved in believing in God ? as we do in Jesus
Did they not have a salvation plan for a resurrection ?
What is in their resurrection that is going to be any different from future resurrections ?
Will they not have part in the first resurrection just like the NT saints ?
If they are in the first resurrection, then their salvation was good under the OT Laws. ?

What was better for the NT saints that the OT saints, as pertaining to be saved ?
Did they not both qualify for the resurrection ?

Jesus told us the parable of the rich man and the beggar, Lazarus how Abraham's bosom could be seen across the great gulf from hell, thus alluding to being beneath the earth.

We find that the former and displaced King Saul had used a medium to contact the spirit of Samuel because God would not answer him and so he went to Samuel to bring him up for some answers.

1 Samuel 28:10 And Saul sware to her by the Lord, saying, As the Lord liveth, there shall no punishment happen to thee for this thing. 11 Then said the woman, Whom shall I bring up unto thee? And he said, Bring me up Samuel. 12 And when the woman saw Samuel, she cried with a loud voice: and the woman spake to Saul, saying, Why hast thou deceived me? for thou art Saul. 13 And the king said unto her, Be not afraid: for what sawest thou? And the woman said unto Saul, I saw gods ascending out of the earth. 14 And he said unto her, What form is he of? And she said, An old man cometh up; and he is covered with a mantle. And Saul perceived that it was Samuel, and he stooped with his face to the ground, and bowed himself.

Some will say that it wasn't really the spirit of Samuel, but the medium was afraid of him and that spirit of Samuel prophesied Saul's doom accordingly. Also Isaiah 8:19 considers this an abomination as people should seek answers from the Lord rather than from the spirits of the dead even though Isaiah 8:19 was written later on after this event.

So when Jesus said to the thief that this day he will be with Him in Paradise, which is to say Abraham's bosom, that was where He and that thief went that day because He had to descend to preach to those in "prison".

1 Peter 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: 19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; 20 Which sometime were disobedient,...

Why? 1 Peter 3:18 cites why this had to be done because only Christ can bring the spirits of those saints to Heaven to live with God forever.

John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

So the saints in the O.T. had not received the promise of eternal life of living with God yet, but they were in holding in Paradise beneath the earth.

Hebrews 11:13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. 14 For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country. 15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned. 16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

After His resurrection, they were too for a short time;

Matthew 27:51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent; 52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, 53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many. 54 Now when the centurion, and they that were with him, watching Jesus, saw the earthquake, and those things that were done, they feared greatly, saying, Truly this was the Son of God.

That was Him leading the captivity captive so that when He had ascended, He took them and Paradise with Him to God above.

Ephesians 4:8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. 9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? 10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

Now Paradise is located in Heaven.

2 Corinthians 12:2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven. 3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) 4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

Paul was talking about the apostle John when he was taken up to Heaven to bear witness for what he was to write in the Book of Revelations.

So that when a believer dies, they go there to await the resurrection, but present with the Lord Jesus Christ in Heaven.

2 Corinthians 15:7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight:) 8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. 9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him. 10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. 11 Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.

So how we run that race which is by faith in Jesus Christ, looking to the author & finisher of our faith to help us lay aside every weight & sin so we can be received by Him as a vessel unto honor in His House or else we become disqualified to attend the Marriage Supper in Heaven when the Bridegroom comes, and wind up left behind to be resurrected later on as vessels unto dishonor in His House for not departing from iniquity.

2 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. 20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

Hebrews 12:1Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, 2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

1 Corinthians 9:24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain. 25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible. 26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air: 27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

2 Timothy 4:18 And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

That verse above applies also to those that get left behind, but better to look to Him now for help to discern & depart from iniquity than to be left behind for Him to do it then where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth for missing out on the firstfruits of the resurrection. The prodigal son may have given up his inheritance for wild living and can never get it back, but he is still son.

So it all goes to which resurrection "last" day a believer wants to have; the one before the great tribulation or afterwards, because He will lose nothing of all the Father has given Him, even for those that just believe in His name?

John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. 38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. 39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. 40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Matthew 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
 

Truther

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Just pondering

OT saints are they saved in believing in God ? as we do in Jesus
Did they not have a salvation plan for a resurrection ?
What is in their resurrection that is going to be any different from future resurrections ?
Will they not have part in the first resurrection just like the NT saints ?
If they are in the first resurrection, then their salvation was good under the OT Laws. ?

What was better for the NT saints that the OT saints, as pertaining to be saved ?
Did they not both qualify for the resurrection ?
There are 2 parts to the first resurrection.
Everyone saved from Adam to the rapture will get new bodies(Christ the first fruits).
Then another group that was beheaded during the Great Tribulation.(they that are Christ’s at his coming)
The 2 groups are combined and given new resurrected bodies to judge the earth during the Millennial reign of Jesus Christ.
The rest of the dead will not resurrect until the end of the world.

To get a glimpse of where these OT saints are is found in Hebrews chapter 11 and chapter 12.
In chapter 12 it summarizes all the saints that are dead and in the New Jerusalem city as “spirits of just men made perfect”.

These dead will get glorified earthly bodies to assist in the earthly reign. The living that are caught up together with them will get the same.

These raptured folks will be on thrones when the beheaded resurrect in Rev 20, assisting in the reign.
 

Bible_Gazer

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There are 2 parts to the first resurrection.
Everyone saved from Adam to the rapture will get new bodies(Christ the first fruits).
Then another group that was beheaded during the Great Tribulation.(they that are Christ’s at his coming)
The 2 groups are combined and given new resurrected bodies to judge the earth during the Millennial reign of Jesus Christ.
The rest of the dead will not resurrect until the end of the world.

To get a glimpse of where these OT saints are is found in Hebrews chapter 11 and chapter 12.
In chapter 12 it summarizes all the saints that are dead and in the New Jerusalem city as “spirits of just men made perfect”.

These dead will get glorified earthly bodies to assist in the earthly reign. The living that are caught up together with them will get the same.

These raptured folks will be on thrones when the beheaded resurrect in Rev 20, assisting in the reign.
Thanks for the inputs
questions for ya:
1. what about the alive and remain which group will they go up with ?
2. the ones that are behead, will they not go up then, or they wait for a resurrection under the 7 trumpet Revelation 11:18 ?
3. who will get the new heavenly body from heaven, eternal in the heaven ? 2 Corinthians 5:1-2
4.
These worthies will assist in ruling and judging people during the millennium on Earth to them in salvation for the
New Earth and Heaven condition ?
 

LC627

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No one is saved before the end of their lives. Then comes judgment.

So already you are speaking from a man-made religious indoctrination.

And we will all be judged against what we have been given. So then you may be surprised on just what salvation actually means. salvation for some will not be a cheerful thing.

John the Baptist was filled with the Holy Spirit before birth...Also if the Holy Spirit indwells you as a believer you are saved...God does not put His Holy Spirit in unsaved people.

1 John 5:13 I have written these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know you have eternal life.
 

FollowHim

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Just pondering

OT saints are they saved in believing in God ? as we do in Jesus
Did they not have a salvation plan for a resurrection ?
What is in their resurrection that is going to be any different from future resurrections ?
Will they not have part in the first resurrection just like the NT saints ?
If they are in the first resurrection, then their salvation was good under the OT Laws. ?

What was better for the NT saints that the OT saints, as pertaining to be saved ?
Did they not both qualify for the resurrection ?

The indwelling Holy Spirit was different after Pentecost, when Gods people became His Holy temple.
Communion with God has changed, but how the born again experience showed itself is a question.
If one reduces this down to repentance, purification and faith in God then people have been born again
since the beginning. On this basis Elijah was "saved"
 

Episkopos

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John the Baptist was filled with the Holy Spirit before birth...Also if the Holy Spirit indwells you as a believer you are saved...God does not put His Holy Spirit in unsaved people.

1 John 5:13 I have written these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know you have eternal life.

The issue is always going to be...in what capacity will you live eternally? A person can survive a war and be blind, and a paraplegic.....but is still saved.

I think it is very simplistic to see salvation as only one thing...without looking at the choices we make.
 
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Reggie Belafonte

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I would say that the OT Saints were of great faith but not of Grace, Grace only came with Jesus.
Moses did not know Grace.
I am not talking about grace but Grace, as was once expressed in RC doctrine.
 

Reggie Belafonte

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John the Baptist was filled with the Holy Spirit before birth...Also if the Holy Spirit indwells you as a believer you are saved...God does not put His Holy Spirit in unsaved people.

1 John 5:13 I have written these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know you have eternal life.
Well it was when Mary touched him that he jumped in his mothers womb, that such must be by the power of the Holy Spirit.
 

SovereignGrace

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I would say that the OT Saints were of great faith but not of Grace, Grace only came with Jesus.
Moses did not know Grace.
I am not talking about grace but Grace, as was once expressed in RC doctrine.

It says But Noah found favor in the eyes of the LORD.[Genesis 6:8] This is unmerited favor/grace. So, none are saved by faith, yet devoid of God's grace, my friend. :)
 

Bible_Gazer

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From what I understand is that the OT people could not get saved from death.
The OT saints died but were saved from eternal death, they would get a resurrection to get eternal life.

laws -obedient - believing faith, all seem to have part in getting a resurrection for them.
 

Reggie Belafonte

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It says But Noah found favor in the eyes of the LORD.[Genesis 6:8] This is unmerited favor/grace. So, none are saved by faith, yet devoid of God's grace, my friend. :)
Yes but they were not under Grace. just like Moses did not know God, as no one knew God until The Son of God came. so the OT Saints were of Gods will, yet counted as favour.
 

Reggie Belafonte

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From what I understand is that the OT people could not get saved from death.
The OT saints died but were saved from eternal death, they would get a resurrection to get eternal life.

laws -obedient - believing faith, all seem to have part in getting a resurrection for them.
OT Saints were all Servants of God = Israel. all Israel is saved ! that means true Israel, not because one is part of the Tribe, as only some of the Tribe were truly worthy of the name Israel to be given to them in fact.

There Souls would of went to Purgatory until Jesus died and came for them.
 

Enow

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From what I understand is that the OT people could not get saved from death.
The OT saints died but were saved from eternal death, they would get a resurrection to get eternal life.

laws -obedient - believing faith, all seem to have part in getting a resurrection for them.

Did you read post #24? There are scriptures that answers all of your questions in the OP.
 

Earburner

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Just pondering

OT saints are they saved in believing in God ? as we do in Jesus
Did they not have a salvation plan for a resurrection ?
What is in their resurrection that is going to be any different from future resurrections ?
Will they not have part in the first resurrection just like the NT saints ?
If they are in the first resurrection, then their salvation was good under the OT Laws. ?

What was better for the NT saints that the OT saints, as pertaining to be saved ?
Did they not both qualify for the resurrection ?
As for what happened to the OT Saints, who died in faith believing of the first appearance of Christ, they were sealed by the Holy Spirit of Promise, on the Day of Pentecost.
Please see KJV- Revelation 6:9-11 for the truth about them.
 

Enow

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As for what happened to the OT Saints, who died in faith believing of the first appearance of Christ, they were sealed by the Holy Spirit of Promise, on the Day of Pentecost.
Please see KJV- Revelation 6:9-11 for the truth about them.

See the scriptures posted in post #24 for when they were taken up before Pentecost when Christ had ascended. Proof!
 

Earburner

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See the scriptures posted in post #24 for when they were taken up before Pentecost when Christ had ascended. Proof!
You quoted:
Matthew 27:51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent; 52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, 53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many. 54 Now when the centurion, and they that were with him, watching Jesus, saw the earthquake, and those things that were done, they feared greatly, saying, Truly this was the Son of God.

> MANY [but not all] the bodies of the saints...came out of the graves...
According to Peter, many more are still sleeping in their graves. Acts 1[29] Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
.

It is apparent that David is one among those "under the altar", who was given the sealing of His Holy Spirit (white robe), and is STILL waiting in sleep, for the Glorious return of Christ from Heaven!
Revelation 6:9-11
 

Enow

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Thank you for sharing. We can always hope for the Lord to minister to each of us in this iron sharpens iron exchanges.

You quoted:
Matthew 27:51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent; 52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, 53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many. 54 Now when the centurion, and they that were with him, watching Jesus, saw the earthquake, and those things that were done, they feared greatly, saying, Truly this was the Son of God.

> MANY [but not all] the bodies of the saints...came out of the graves...
According to Peter, many more are still sleeping in their graves. Acts 1[29] Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.


When the O.T. saints were resurrected that was in Paradise aka Abraham's bosom, it was temporary. When Jesus had ascended, He had taken Paradise up to the third heaven where their spirits are today, awaiting the resurrection of the firstfruits.


It is apparent that David is one among those "under the altar", who was given the sealing of His Holy Spirit (white robe), and is STILL waiting in sleep, for the Glorious return of Christ from Heaven!
Revelation 6:9-11

I believe because of verse 8 and the small season referenced in verse 11 is referring to left behind unrepentant saints that were killed by that calamity of fire in that third part in the world ( I believe it is the entire western hemisphere ) which sets up the hour of temptation for the coming great tribulation to either get the mark to buy and sell and be damned to the lake of fire or suffer and die by not taking the mark to survive. So that small season is in reference to the coming great tribulation of those left behind saints and new saints that did not die in that fire on earth.

Revelation 6:8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth. 9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: 10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? 11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

I am not really seeing anything that could be referred to David being under that altar.