Do we even have the correct definition of "saved?"

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Philip James

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they spiritually died, pj, they (you) did not literally die.

Why would one think a spirtual death is not a literal death?
Perhaps you can define for me what literal means to you?
To me it means 'real' or 'true' as opposed to fantasy or make believe..

You killed Immanuel, just as we all do
you might even recall the day
imo

Yes, I literally killed Immanuel.

"like" the rest :)

Cool
 

bbyrd009

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Are you reading that in Acts as inferring that Jews celebrated Easter? You said you knew about the other spring festival that occurs around that same time and yet you don't think "pasco" which is of the Chaldean origin, can't be referring to Easter rather than the Jewish Passover from the Greek?
imo if someone wants to celebrate the goddess easter then that is their right, and i am not to dispute holidays
bunny and egg to your heart's content i say

i do Passover standing up myself
So you believe pasco should be Passover instead of Easter even though the actual Passover is the day before the days of the unleavened bread?
i think any lexicon or interelinear would clarify the difference in seconds,
Bible Search: easter
Acts 12:4 Lexicon: When he had seized him, he put him in prison, delivering him to four squads of soldiers to guard him, intending after the Passover to bring him out before the people.
Strong's Greek: 3957. πάσχα (pascha) -- the Passover, the Passover supper or lamb
and "passover" is an english word too right?
what does "Pascha" sound more like,
Easter or Passover?

what does Ishtar sound more like?
And what is your opinion of doing the translation all by yourself?
hmm, is that even practically possible? isnt one going to immediately begin seeking sources, and then reputable ones? there are many online etymologists, all with an agenda of course, personally i wrote a bot to make a meta-etymology, but those have since come online too, Bitcoin and the Gospel of Jesus Christ save reading the cover page for later though imo lol
 
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bbyrd009

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So what have you translated from the Hebrew and Greek word to mean besides the Lord?
oh, who cares what i think :)
the takeaway is that "Lord" is an English Concept; be aware of it
Yah does not "lord" it over anyone
imo

and there are other assumptions made in the x, overuse of the word "believe" for pistis, etc

what is xlated "homosexual" bears little resemblance to many or most "gays" today, and "bed kitten" is likely a more apt analogy; "hedonist"
for instance
refs on req
 

bbyrd009

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So what have you translated from the Hebrew and Greek word to mean besides the Lord?
ha sorry actually a bunch of names, according to the situation, that our English Bibles have pretty much all reduced to "Lord"

i think i just popped a link to "divine names" not too far back
but you already get the drift, Immanuel is distinct from YHWH, etc
 

bbyrd009

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No. According to Jesus own words, being persecuted is making someone offended because of the world.

Matthew 13:20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it; 21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.
world or word?
 

bbyrd009

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Another example of persecution because of the word by which someone are offended and fall away is the false science of the evolution theory. Some fall away from believing the Bible because of that too.
they do huh well those bastards eh.
k im cloistering now i guess, little ewok turkey is staring up at me so cute lol
bye
 

Enow

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I’d like to give you my understanding of this scripture. Let’s say I’m a Pharisee in 50 AD, and say Enow is my neighbor and he’s telling my other neighbors I’m in opposition to his religious beliefs, so being I’m a person with social position I send a few of my fellows over to your house one night about 2 am and they put the wupdown on you and your family members. In my opinion you just experienced some tribulation. Now before they leave your home and you in ruin I tell my fellows to be certain and let you know that we’ll be back every Sunday for the rest of your life, now tribulation has become persecution.

So I’m thinking I don’t know of anyone who suffers persecution here in North America, maybe tribulation, but I’m not sure about your area of the world.

It is unfortunate that you are applying His words wrong. Those persecuted that fall away is because they were not rooted in the word enough for why they were offended by the word when people make fun of them for believing in the Bible.

Matthew 13:20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it; 21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.

The offended party is the believer that has no root in himself. It is because of the word, he is offended. That can only happen by making fun of him for believing the word. Not because of getting a wupdown. The offense is not the wupdown, but the offense is shaming him for believing the word.

Believers have been persecuted in USA just by people mocking them for believing the Bible. It is by this type of persecution, the believers are offended because of the word, and having no roots in His words to know better, they fall away.
 

bbyrd009

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Why would one think a spirtual death is not a literal death?
bc it is a spiritual death? yes, they were arguably the living dead figuratively speaking after that but nonetheless they did not literally die that day right; which presents the literalist with a conundrum eh
one of many
which is imo the real q, not whether it is literal, which is apparent
i mean unless you are given to private interpretations yeh?
Yes, I literally killed Immanuel.
well wadr i dont think that is possible, as Immanuel does not meet the conditions for existence, and other issues there, those ppl we deem "special" lol, but yeh i reckon you did spiritually choose the world over Emanu-el one day, like all of us do?
 

Waiting on him

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It is unfortunate that you are applying His words wrong. Those persecuted that fall away is because they were not rooted in the word enough for why they were offended by the word when people make fun of them for believing in the Bible.

Matthew 13:20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it; 21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.

The offended party is the believer that has no root in himself. It is because of the word, he is offended. That can only happen by making fun of him for believing the word. Not because of getting a wupdown. The offense is not the wupdown, but the offense is shaming him for believing the word.

Believers have been persecuted in USA just by people mocking them for believing the Bible. It is by this type of persecution, the believers are offended because of the word, and having no roots in His words to know better, they fall away.
Acts 22:4 KJV
[4] And I persecuted this way unto the death, binding and delivering into prisons both men and women.

This is persecution, persecuted is not being teased by people.

I get it tho many Christians today want to glorify themselves as being some type of martyr.
Tecarta Bible
 
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Philip James

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i mean unless you are given to private interpretations yeh?

Haha, touche ;)

I think though, that our miscommunication is over the use of the words 'literaly' and 'figuritively'.

So please allow me to use a differnr word.

We truly died that day thus proving the enemy a liar.

We were indeed truly the walking dead, as Jesus points out when He says 'let the dead bury the dead'

Peace!
 

Enow

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Acts 22:4 KJV
[4] And I persecuted this way unto the death, binding and delivering into prisons both men and women.

This is persecution, persecuted is not being teased by people.

I get it tho many Christians today want to glorify themselves as being some type of martyr.
Tecarta Bible

I was referring to the type of persecution that Jesus was talking about in that passage where they make fun of believers not grounded in the word for why they were offended for believing the Bible and fall away.

Matthew 13:20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it; 21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.

This was in relation to the damage done by antiKJVOnlyism for why I believe bbyrd009 is the way he is. There are former believers because of the lie of the evolution theory which is a false science.

I am fully aware of other types of persecution; physical and otherwise. I am not offended by this type of persecution, because I have not fallen away, and the reason I have not fallen away is thanks to Jesus Christ for being my Good shepherd in helping me see the truth in His words as kept by the KJV whereby I stopped using the NIV and the NASB Study Bible because I can't correct errors by those Bibles, but with the KJV, I find that I can, of course, it is on God to cause the increase; only He can peradventure to recover any out of the snare of the devil. I am nothing in that regard.

If you do not consider not being led astray by the holy laughter movement as glorifying yourself, but glorifying Him for keeping you from falling, then I do not know why you think I was glorifying myself when I was applying that verse about persecution that made believers offended because of the word.
 

Brakelite

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Yes beloved, they literally died....

And the Creator of the universe, humbled Himself and became man to free us from that death.

Praise be to our Lord, Jesus Christ!

The truly ironic thing is that first lie 'if you eat you will certainly not die'

Has now become the lie 'did God really say eat and you shall live? Certainly not'

Peace be with you!
And yet you and most other Christians believe that lie... That we don't "surely die". You believe we are whisked of into some eternal abode, one with smiley faces the other with frowns, the moment you stop breathing... You believe your spirit, or soul, whatever, is naturally immortal and never dies right? It just ends up at a different address. But you claim when Satan stated you shall not die, that was a lie? But you agree with him!!!!
 
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Brakelite

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the implications there are disturbing to me; you infer a future literal place that may only be attained after death
...to the carnal selfish nature...burial in other words... Of which baptism is the outward ritual or demonstration of that which had already transpired in the heart/mind... Which results in the fulfillment of the promise...

I came that you might have life, more abundantly
... Which is the fruit of the aforementioned spiritual resurrection...(see Romans 6:1-10)
"the virgin had not yet got with child" maybe, but what is your point here, ty
That despite having lived in Canaan for centuries the prophets knew, and also those heroes of faith listed in Hebrew 11 knew, that the promises of God regarding a life of peace and safety were yet to be realised... And they knew that this world wasn't going to supply the fulfillment of those promises... The apostle Paul defined the hope of Christians, and the OT saints, could only be realised after the Resurrection. The physical one.
You are correct that we are very limited as to what the after life consists. But there are text texts that reveal where, and who with.
 
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Taken

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Not sure how you are applying believers to mean as not saved.

Do you believe a person can be Saved...then unsaved?

[/QUOTE]Except during the days of Jesus, they could not receive the promise of the forever indwelling Holy Spirit from the Father at their salvation until Jesus had ascended and was no longer present physically with them.[/QUOTE]

Agree.

Glory to God,
Taken
 
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