New- opposite of old, former,
Covenant - agreement
But then it requires one to actually participate in the "new agreement", and you have made your agreement with the Doctrine of the Catholic church...correct?
Is There Different Beliefs Among Catholics? Chrislam Movement?
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New- opposite of old, former,
Covenant - agreement
But then it requires one to actually participate in the "new agreement", and you have made your agreement with the Doctrine of the Catholic church...correct?
Please tell me what the term "new covenant" means in the following verse:
"And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.” (Hebrews 9:15)
So "covenant" means "agreement" in the New King James Version translation of Heb 9:15, but in the King James Bible translation of Heb 9:15, the same word (translated as "testament") means the collection of Scriptures from Matthew to Revelation.
You've got two different interpretations of the same verse, depending on which Bible you read. How does that work?
What do the words "new testament" means in this verse? ...
“Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.” Luke 22:20
How it Always Works-
One party MAKES a Covenant by His Testament and Offers that Covenant to an Other Party.
The Other Party can ACCEPT the One Party's Covenant...or NOT.
The OTHER party WHO ACCEPTS the Ones Offering...becomes an Agreement Between the TWO Party's.
Not difficult. Today, it is simply called a CONTRACT, between men.
(The terms of the CONTRACT, can be ORAL or WRITTEN)
In Scripture it is called, a COVENANT, between God and A man.
(The Terms of the COVENANT, can be ORAL or WRITTEN)
Surely you must know, discussion About the terms and obligations of a Contract, of a Covenant...Begin Orally...but Always Must END with the TWO PARTY'S "IN AGREEMENT",
For the Contract, the Covenant, to have the force and effect of Validity.
Glory to God,
Taken
So? You quoted Scripture.
What is your understanding of that verse?
Glory to God,
Taken
What apostolic churches? What were they called and where were they based?
History shows there was only one apostolic Church - the Catholic Church.
I can’t find any specifics about the canon the OT in Luke 24 or anywhere in the NT, so what are you talking about?
The canon was not officially ratified until the fourth century, at the earliest.
The translation of Luke 22:20 I quoted is from the King James Version, which uses antiquated language. As anyone but a Bible dunce knows, the term "new testament" in the King James Bible doesn't refer to the Scriptures, Matthew to Revelation - as you claim it does in Heb 9:15.
The term "new testament" in the King James Bible translations of Luke 22:20 and Heb 9:15 is simply an old-fashioned way of saying "new covenant", which is the term used in more modern translations, such as the New King James Version.
Compare the King James Bible translation of Luke 22:20 above to the New King James Version translation below:
“Likewise He also took the cup after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in My blood, which is shed for you” (Luke 22:20).
The two translation are the same, except the term "new testament" is replaced by "new covenant". Obviously, the terms "new testament" and "new covenant" mean the same thing, and they both refer to the new covenant establish by the life, death and resurrection of Jesus. Contrary to your hilariously stupid claim, the term "new testament" in old translations of the Bible never refers to the Scriptures, Matthew to Revelation, known as the New Testament.
I'll try again.
What does "new testament" mean in this verse?:
“Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you” (Luke 22:20, King James Bible).
Compare the King James Bible translation of Luke 22:20 above to the New King James Version translation below:
.
Wow...
Why don't you get a Dictionary...
1) Covenant-
Means an Agreement
2) Testament-
Means the Evidence of the Facts (of the Covenant.) revealed Orally or Written
3) Scripture-
Means the Sacred "Writings" that reveal the Covenant And the Testament.
Obviously you are bamboozled into believing;
Covenant meaning has not changed!
Testament meaning has not changed!
Scripture meaning has not changed!
The Old Covenant has not been REPLACED!
The Old Testament has not been REPLACED!
The Old Scriptures have not been REPLACED!
The OLD (aka) First;
Covenant, Testament, Scriptures:
Were Fulfilled!
The OLD (aka) First;
Covenant, Testament, Scriptures:
Were NEVER "given You, or Catholics, or Gentiles.
WHO ARE YOU, to make ridiculous Catholic claims The OLD was "REPLACED" ?
The New Testament and Word of God, Never teaches A "Replacement", of The First (OLD).
The Word of God, teaches, the OLD was Fulfilled...but NOT destroyed or Done Away with, or as you say "REPLACE"
Matt 5: 17
[17] Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
The OLD (First) Covenant , Testament, Scriptures...were NOT given you...nor were they Destroyed or Replaced!
A new, better Covenant, Testament, Scriptures...were Given TO:
ALL of mankind.
All of mankind; includes the House of Israel AND GENTILES!
Any man from the House of Israel or a GENTILE, can AGREE with the New Covenant, the New Testament, the New Scriptures...
Or Not!
If a Gentile does not willingly Agree with the New Testament...
He has Zero Agreement with The Lord God.
If a man from the House of Israel does not
Agree with the New Testament...
He HAS the STILL active Covenant, Testament, Scriptures and Agreement with God.
Any diligent student of the OLD and NEW Covenants, Testaments, Scriptures...
Has learned...meanings of the Terms have NOT changed, been destroyed or been Redefined, or Replaced.
Keep studying...Wisdom might sneak up on you, and cause you to stop trying to make silly arguments by way of your lack of comprehension.
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It's The Word of God teaching a True Fact...
(By His True Word of Testimony)
His Blood is sufficiant to Forgive All sin...
(UNLIKE the OLD way, for: The house of Israel, having been forgiven ONE past Year of sin, by presenting a pure animals Blood.)
Did you overlook, what was IN the cup?
Did you over look, the Cup, was what Jesus Drank From?
Did you overlook, the requirement for a man IS to Drink from THE SAME Cup, Jesus drank from?
Matt 20:
[22] But Jesus... SAID... Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of,
There is no agreement between man and God at all, you abide or you don't.
Agreements are only done between the Devil and Satanist.
Agreements are a Mans works doctrine.
If you try to anything as such with so called Agreement deals, you will fail in such regardless.
God does not do deals, he does not have too.
If one thinks they are doing a deal with God, that is a god ? an idol ! that you have made for yourself.
Why are you the only person in the world who thinks the words, "new testament', in Heb 9:15 refers to the canon of Scriptures, Matthew to Revelation?
”RogerDC” said:
Good grief, that’s not what I meant at all. You must be pulling my leg - surely no one could be as stupid as you’re making out to be.Taken said:
I’m not talking about the actual testament/covenant; I’m talking about biblical text - the difference in the translations of Luke 22:20 and Heb 9:15 in the King James Bible compared to the New Kind James Version - ie, they are the same except the KJB using the words, “new testament”, whereas the NKJV uses the words, “new covenant”.
Nowhere in the Scriptures do the words "covenant … testament" refer to the canon of Scriptures known to us as the Old Testament and New Testament.
What is your point?
Are you saying Nothing was Written of The old or NEW Covenant...Before the canon?
Are you saying Nothing was Written of The old or New Testament ...Before the canon?
In an earlier post, you claimed that the words, “new testament”, in Heb 9:15 (KJB) refers to the collection of 27 canonical books, Matthew to Revelation, known as the New Testament. So, according to you, in the following verse …
“Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you” (Luke 22:20, KJB) …
the canonical 27 books from Matthew to Revelation are in the “cup” Jesus is holding.
This begs a few questions:
How did Jesus manage to stuff every page of the NT into one cup?
Where did Jesus get hold of a copy of the New Testament at that point in time? The NT wasn’t written until decades later.
Jesus told the apostles to “drink” the contents of the cup - how can anyone “drink” pages of paper?
I’m relying on you to provide answers to these baffling questions, because only a genius like you can.
Heb 9:15
[15] And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
It is abundantly obvious you are struggling with the understanding of what a testament is. So start with the basics:
A Testament IS:
"something" that serves as a sign or evidence of a specified fact, event, or quality, will.
From the beginning God has notified His CREATED man-kind of thing OF...
His Facts, His WILL.
How the man-kind of thing has RECEIVED Gods Facts has been "through"...
Word, Speech, Specific Signs, Visions...
and in the LAST DAYS (OF the man-KIND of thing),
Heb 1:2
[2] Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
You should have learned:
1) Gods Son is Jesus.
2) Gods Son is the Voice of God.
3) Gods Son came forth OUT from God.
4) God Prepared A BODY for His Word.
5) The Prepared BODY was Revealed TO and SEEN by the man-Kind of thing...IN The "LIKENESS" as the man-Kind of thing.
The Word of God...is called by Numerous "Things":
Word, Son of God, JESUS, Lord, God, Teacher, Rabbi, Holy One, Savior, Redeemer, Judge, Spirit, Quickening Spirit, Truth, Life, Way, Annointed, Advocate, Righteous, Without Sin,
Almighty, Power, Wisdom, Power, Christ, Chief, Cornerstone, Rock, King, Lamb, Deliverer, I Am, Faithful, True, High Priest, Head, Alpha, Omega, Lord of lords, King of kings, Lord of All, Lion, Author, Perfector, Bread of Life, Good, Shepherd, etc. etc. etc.
You Should have LEARNED these thing FROM Hearing it Told To You...
OR, If those things Be WRITTEN, and you can read, And you have the writings avalible TO you, By You Reading those Things.
A TESTAMONY "need NOT" Be WITTEN for it TO BE a Testament!
A TESTAMENT...merely NEEDS TO BE REVEALED... by Word, signs, speech, etc.
Heb 9:15
IS Specifically Revealing (he)...Christ/ Heb 9:11...IS the MEDIATOR of ... WHAT?
the NEW TESTAMENT ...
So you can add to the LIST... Christ is Called ...Mediator....and Mediator of WHAT?
The entire NEW TESTAMENT!
So WHAT IS "THE" source of this "SPECIFIC" TESTESTAMENT?
God...who has REVEALED, HIS Word, Out of His Mouth, manifested in the LIKENESS as man-KIND of thing...To Reveal TO manKind of things....(through hearing AND SIGHT)..Gods WILL.
Heb 9:
[15] And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
If you DO NOT comprehend Heb 9: 15 is Revealing, the Word of God Is Specifically the Mediator of the New Testament...and What a Testament is, ... and the source of this specific Testament, and WHO Specific Is the Mediator OF this Specific Testament...
I can NOT understand IT...for you.
It certainly has nothing to do with shoving PAPER in a cup and trying to Drink PAPER!
Glory to God,
Taken
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