The communication disconnect

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bbyrd009

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Often, the NB may feel disrespected and lash out but the Christian has planted the seed (followed by prayer). At this point it's probably wise to withdraw from the conversation.
no offense but i think Paul has a better passage for that, about when in Rome?
i say this bc if someone feels disrespected, then it is possible that they might have been?

i know we are taught that proselytizing is what is meant by "witnessing" now, but fwiw that is actually illegal in many developed countries, and for a good reason imo; how would you feel if i, a stranger, came up and suggested that you need serious spiritual help, "you need Jesus, you need to get saved, you need this or that?" Pretty demeaning
Believer says he will pray for non-believer to receive the truth and be saved
i pray that you might soon receive the truth, and be saved bro
:)
What is the disconnect? Why is the non-believer so judgmental and insulting?
indeed
Non-believer is handicapped because he lacks understanding via the Holy Spirit so it’s not a level playing field.
well so you say, and it is, barely, possible maybe
that that is the (only) reason, i mean
Christian (inspired by the Holy Spirit) responds to insults and attacks according to Jesus and the bible.
again so you say, but as you note the guy has already been disrespected, yeh? Iow pauls deal about when in Rome was not really absorbed, maybe? So it's at least quite possible that the response was as insensitive as the initial proselytization? Dont get me wrong, i dont mean like every time or whatever, but in cases where the "NB" is so obv sending out Dont vibes i mean wth is the "Christian" even thinking, iyo?
 
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amadeus

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At some point the NB may wish to attain the life of joy, peace, and love displayed by the Christian witness and indeed take that leap of faith.
On this forum and in my community [and all of the other communities of my experience] the witness of many people bearing the label of Christian is a poor one. Others here may not agree that is what I see.

The good thing is that the unbeliever, who is really hungry and thirsty for the right things will be filled. Such an unbeliever will be shown what he needs to see. Anyone not really serious is going to remain blind anyway.
 
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amadeus

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Of course that begs the obvious question: why should someone "take a leap of faith" with Christianity, but not do the same with all other religions? For example, Mormons seem quite happy and filled with joy, peace, and love, so why not just start having faith in Mormonism and see how it goes?
The reason why a person should or would take a leap of faith is because he wants something and actually sees an example of it in someone serving God. The label of Christian too often for too many is simply all that there is, a label. When the Jews of 2000 years ago saw Jesus they saw something they had never seen in their own religious activities.

When someone really is looking like Jesus people will notice even if they do not embrace him. As Jesus showed them more and more of what he was, many deserted him. They saw Him but were unwilling to pay the price. I suppose that most bearing the Christian label look more like the Jews who deserted Jesus. Few are willing to really get into this:

"I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service." Rom 12:1

People want the best of both worlds and that is Not how it works!
 
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humbleseeker

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again so you say, but as you note the guy has already been disrespected, yeh? Iow pauls deal about when in Rome was not really absorbed, maybe? So it's at least quite possible that the response was as insensitive as the initial proselytization? Dont get me wrong, i dont mean like every time or whatever, but in cases where the "NB" is so obv sending out Dont vibes i mean wth is the "Christian" even thinking, iyo?[/QUOTE]

Apologies for not being clear, the typical exchange I referred to in OP wasn't a pushy type of proselytization, but rather any comment with a hint of believer perspective - triggers a hateful attack by non-believers. And in the setting of a secular forum it's usually a pile on by many NB's.

Thinking more about this thread has led me to some helpful scripture, for example;
1 Peter 3:15-16 ESV / 132 helpful votes
But in your hearts honor Christ the Lord as holy, always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and respect, having a good conscience, so that, when you are slandered, those who revile your good behavior in Christ may be put to shame.

Romans 14:1 ESV / 78 helpful votes
As for the one who is weak in faith, welcome him, but not to quarrel over opinions.

Acts 19:9 ESV / 51 helpful votes
But when some became stubborn and continued in unbelief, speaking evil of the Way before the congregation, he withdrew from them and took the disciples with him, reasoning daily in the hall of Tyrannus.

2 Timothy 3:16 ESV / 42 helpful votes
All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,

John 13:34-35 ESV / 32 helpful votes
A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another: just as I have loved you, you also are to love one another. By this all people will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”

2 Timothy 4:2 ESV / 31 helpful votes
Preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, and exhort, with complete patience and teaching.

2 Timothy 2:14 ESV / 30 helpful votes
Remind them of these things, and charge them before God not to quarrel about words, which does no good, but only ruins the hearers.
Acts 18:28 ESV / 14 helpful votes
For he powerfully refuted the Jews in public, showing by the Scriptures that the Christ was Jesus.
Titus 3:10 ESV / 12 helpful votes
As for a person who stirs up division, after warning him once and then twice, have nothing more to do with him,
Proverbs 29:1-27 ESV / 5 helpful votes
He who is often reproved, yet stiffens his neck, will suddenly be broken beyond healing.
Proverbs 26:12-16 ESV / 5 helpful votes
Do you see a man who is wise in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.
Proverbs 23:9-11 ESV / 5 helpful votes
Do not speak in the hearing of a fool, for he will despise the good sense of your words.

The best guidance I think is from Jesus himself as many times when challenged he simply spoke the truth then moved on to let it soak in to those listening.
 

Episkopos

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Of course that begs the obvious question: why should someone "take a leap of faith" with Christianity, but not do the same with all other religions? For example, Mormons seem quite happy and filled with joy, peace, and love, so why not just start having faith in Mormonism and see how it goes?


Why not? Sure. It all comes down to this...how are you living with what you accept as true? Are you growing in love and wisdom and knowledge? Do you have an eternal purpose?

If you are then that is a good thing and perhaps God has you there for that time.

The problem is with a religious rigidity that decides for itself what is true...that and a judging of others based on a dogmatic ideology.

So then rather than forcing people to adopt one's religious views...people should be inquiring about what makes you tick. And then you can tell people of the relationship you have with the Almighty.
 

Justadude

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The reason why a person should or would take a leap of faith is because he wants something and actually sees an example of it in someone serving God. The label of Christian too often for too many is simply all that there is, a label. When the Jews of 2000 years ago saw Jesus they saw something they had never seen in their own religious activities.

When someone really is looking like Jesus people will notice even if they do not embrace him. As Jesus showed them more and more of what he was, many deserted him. They saw Him but were unwilling to pay the price. I suppose that most bearing the Christian label look more like the Jews who deserted Jesus. Few are willing to really get into this:

"I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service." Rom 12:1

People want the best of both worlds and that is Not how it works!
That makes sense. You see something in a person (or a group of people) that you want, so you emulate. That's why I've always felt the people who evangelize through "works" (charity work for example) get more converts than those who stand on street corners and yell at people through a bullhorn.
 

Justadude

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Why not? Sure. It all comes down to this...how are you living with what you accept as true? Are you growing in love and wisdom and knowledge? Do you have an eternal purpose?
Perhaps, but just about all religions offer love, wisdom, and eternal purpose.

As @amadeus said, one's choice of which religion to take a leap of faith with oftentimes comes down to which one you see that has things you want in your own life. And IMO, that's largely a function of simple geography. Where I live, there are quite a few Christians and Mormons. But there are hardly any Muslims, Hindus, Jehovah's Witnesses, Buddhists, or other non-Christians. So just by sheer numbers, a person in my area is more likely to see Christians and Mormons exhibiting desirable behaviors and traits, and therefore more likely to take a leap of faith into those beliefs.

If you are then that is a good thing and perhaps God has you there for that time.
Very true. If a person is already happy and fulfilled, they probably are a lot less swayed by others being happy and fulfilled. That's probably why a lot of conversion stories have a "I hit rock bottom" component to them.

The problem is with a religious rigidity that decides for itself what is true...that and a judging of others based on a dogmatic ideology.

So then rather than forcing people to adopt one's religious views...people should be inquiring about what makes you tick. And then you can tell people of the relationship you have with the Almighty.
No doubt. Very nicely put.
 

bbyrd009

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but rather any comment with a hint of believer perspective - triggers a hateful attack by non-believers. And in the setting of a secular forum it's usually a pile on by many NB's.
Again what I’m hearing is Paul’s “when in Rome” passage is not really being hearkened
Thinking more about this thread has led me to some helpful scripture, for example;
1 Peter 3:15-16 ESV / 132 helpful votes
But in your hearts honor Christ the Lord as holy, always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you
And while we imagine that it is strangers who will be calling us to account, if you think about it it is always those in our circle, right? So I suggest while that verse might seem to apply to your case, it in fact does not; no stranger ever asked you for an accounting of the hope that is in you, Almost surely. What actually happens on a practical level is you are trying to follow Christ In some matter that causes you or your immediate circle some minor discomfort or a change in plans, and so you upset your friends and they want to know why you are doing what you are doing, right

So iow There is a selfless interpretation of that verse, and there is a more selfish one, that may be used to justify one’s behavior
The best guidance I think is from Jesus himself as many times when challenged he simply spoke the truth then moved on to let it soak in to those listening.
We’ll see I guess :)
 
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Truth OT

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Typical exchange

Non-believer enters discussion with believer over random topic

At some point religion comes up

Believer takes Christian perspective

Non-believer takes secular perspective

Non-believer challenges … ancient myths/fairy tales, age of universe, big bang, carbon dating, existence of evil, lack of archeological proof, current suffering, wars/deaths/crusades, etc…

Believer counters with Christian explanations according to Jesus and bible.

Non-believer becomes increasingly insulting and hateful

Believer says he will pray for non-believer to receive the truth and be saved

Non-believer responds with “you’re some kind of nut, you are talking insane”

What is the disconnect? Why is the non-believer so judgmental and insulting?

The depiction above is not productive. There is rarely a time when rudeness or condescension is called for. In day time I have actually been on both sides of the conversation and I tried to make it a point to address the arguments as opposed to attacking the person making the arguments. As someone that no longer a believer, my conversations typically go as follows:

Believer makes an assertion

Non-believer asks "How do you know that to be accurate or true?"

Believer responds with the a verse or two from the Bible.

Non-believer asks why should they believe the Bible to be a source of authority.

Believer says that it's because the Bible is inspired by God.

Non-Believer ask how the believer knows that assertion to be true.

Believer answers with "because the Bible says so."

Non-Believer points out that that is circular reasoning and proves nothing.

The Believer gets upset and becomes judgmental and insulting by insinuating that the unbeliever can't possibly understand and forgoes all efforts to substantiate what they claimed as they retreat to the notion that they know in their heart their beliefs are right.
 
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