Is Any Denomination Saved?

Taken said:

Yes, Jesus Appointed 12 Jews, to hear, learn, teach Gods Word, TO:
The Lost Jews:
The Twelve Tribes of Israel.
* One was a Devil, deflected, died,
* the 11 Appointed a Jewish replacement...
And
Yes, Jesus Appointed a Jewish man, with Roman Citizenship, to Hear, Learn, teach Gods Word, TO:
Gentiles
Jews living among Gentiles

The 13, All appointed and Annointed BY JESUS:
Were Fellow-laborers and Fellow-saints

As "students/listeners," OF the 13-1, (excluding James Boanerges, beheaded early on in his ministry)...
WHO...became Converted Became:
BECAME...Ordained as an Elder...(of a new Locally Established Church...later called Bishops of a Particular Church they presided over...as Fellow-Laborer IN Christ.)

NO ONE Became a human "head-Holy father"...!! (until Gentile Catholic appointments).

Peter was a Fellow-Laborer along with the rest of the Apolstles journeying WHERE and TO WHOM they were SENT to preach and teach the Word of God.

No. Peter was given the task of traveling, teaching, Preaching, establishing Churches, Ordaining the Converted.... for "Them" to be (overseers, fellow-laborers) and Preachers of the Church Built ON..."Jesus IS THE Christ the Son of the Living God"... And God IS the Holy Father.

Sure Ignatius was the first Ordained to be Overseerer and Bishop of The Church established at Antioch.
And it was Ignatius whom we first have his record of thinking the CHURCH, built ON: JESUS is the Christ, the Son of the living God...should BE "UNIVERSAL"...(which is what the WORD Catholic means).

That wasn't particularly a "NEW" idea...
SINCE Jesus Himself had already REVEALED "HIS" Intent and Act of Teaching His OWN chosen Disciples...To Teach All the World...
The Foundation of Christ's Church IS Christ Jesus, The Foundation Cornerstone, and the HEAD of His Church...built UPON:
Jesus IS the Christ, The Son of The Living God".

Look...if you are going to continue Teaching
Gentile Rome is where Peter WAS Sent to establish his Own Church and BE the Bishop of his OWN Church...you should DO your Homework!
All of Christ Jesus' Apostles were SENT To Particular Places, To Particular People, To establish Christ Jesus' Church's throughout the World and Ordain Converted Presbyters over those established Churches...

Matt: 10:
[5] These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
These 12 ?
[2] Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother;
[3] Philip, and Bartholomew; Thomas, and Matthew the publican; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus;
[4] Simon the Canaanite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed him.
Peter was Commanded to Not Go in the Way of the Gentiles and WHAT...? Establish Churches among The Gentile's...
^ That was Paul's Commission that he fulfilled!

So why is it that Catholics Teach Peter was a Teacher and Bishop IN Rome?

Click to expand...

Let's start with your last idiotic statement . . .

The evidence of Peter being in Rome is so overwhelming that it is not only UNANIMOUSLY attested to by the Early Church Fathers - most reputable Protestant scholars even admit to it. The book, "The Bones of Peter" attest to the 1st century graffiti found near his ossuary beneath St. Peter's Square that says over and over: "Peter is here".

As for the word "Catholic" - it doesn't simply mean "Universal". The Greek word for "Catholic" means “according to the whole” and “universal” - καθ ολης, which is pronounced “katah-holos”. Ignatius was using this name as a TITLE - not a mere description.

If you have any doubts about that - here is an excerpt from another 1st Century document, "The Martyrdom of Polycarp" which pretty much seals the deal. Read and learn . . .

Excerpt from The Martyrdom of Polycarp:
"When finally he concluded his prayer, after remembering all who had at any time come his way – small folk and great folk, distinguished and undistinguished, and the whole Catholic Church throughout the world – the time for departure came. So they placed him on an ass, and brought him into the city on a great Sabbath."

As I already told you, the words, καθ ολης (katah-holos) is GREEK for “according to the whole” and “universal”.

If this were a mere description and not a title - the phrase in The Martyrdom of Polycarp - which, by the way, is ALSO written in Koine GREEK - would be horribly redundant, if not comical. It would go something like this:
"... and the whole whole throughout Church throughout the world ..."

It is blindingly clear to any educated person that this document is using the term "Catholic Church" as a TITLE and not a mere description or the wording would make no sense whatsoever.

Finally - as to your gobbldygook about the "12" or the "11" or the "13" - I exposed your lie.
YOU stated that the Apostles (the "13") ONLY appointed other Jews - an argument that I completely obliterated by showing you that the Bishop of Antioch who succeeded Peter (Evodius) - was a converted pagan Gentile and NOT a Jew.

As usual - you LOSE because you don't do your homework before responding. You write with anti-Catholic hatred instead of historical and Biblical facts to back up your posistion.

Seasoned by Grace said:

YUP...same ol' PEA GAME
I'm not anti-Catholic, or anti any religion, but I am ANTI_HERESY in any church or religion.
And tell me, who gives all the priests permission to [removed] - I'm ready to throw up!!!

Tell me again what it is that you believe [removed]

My name is OLIGOS

Click to expand...

TRANSLATION:
"I not equipped to refute ANY of the Biblical evidence you presented - so I'll continue with this "pea-game" nonsense instead."

That's what I thought.
Go do your homework and come back when you have an educated response . . .

Taken said:

No. Men were sav-Ed...JEWS and GENTILES, who themselves, heard, learned, Believed, confessed Heartfelt Belief, and became Converted, ON the Vow of their heartfelt belief: Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the Living God.

Over the course of history men exclusively calling themselves Catholic and acting on behalf of the Catholic Church according TO exclusive Catholic Doctrine...
Teach their Church is built upon Peter (Simon), and babies "receive" a Quickened spirit (aka) "ARE" Born Again;
"WITHOUT"...Knowledge of God
"WITHOUT".. Confession of belief, Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the Living God.
And "IF", they "DO" good works to the end of their Life...they will "receive" Salvation.

That is NOT Scriptural teaching to Gentile's.

If a Catholic teaches they Have NOT YET "received" Salvation..."ARE SAVED"...why should a non-Catholic...make the claim FOR a Catholic and SAY a Catholic IS Sav-Ed... if they themselves don't believe it?

Glory to God,
Taken

Click to expand...

Well Taken,
I can tell you that little bubbles and fanatical beliefs have caused judgmental attitudes, hatred, and wars and hundreds of thousands of Christian deaths. History proves that.

I am a Christian, I fellowship with the Baptists, the Lutherans, the Pentecosts, the Catholics, the Glad Tidings Assembly of God, Mormons, the Moravian Church and nearly a dozen non-denominational churches and I have had Jewish friends for most of my life. Now, the truth is I can honestly say that I love them, but I can take exception with a lot of their beliefs, and still fellowship with them. And although I believe that Calvinists have satanic beliefs, I still call them Christians and I am not going to play God and judge who is saved and who is not.

I have been at Protestant churches that believe that baptism has no spiritual significance or affect….having nothing to do with salvation. And they say that when they are baptizing someone …only a public proclamation of faith.

I have had Protestants tell me that speaking the tongues of the Holy Spirit are of the devil! May God have mercy on their souls.

Even before the Christian texts were assembled into what we call the Holy Bible, people were interpreting the scriptures differently. As of now, that continues, a new Protestant denomination can form at any time and stand up say, They have it right and everyone else is wrong and going to hell.

Wisdom is knowing the history of it all, and keeping a perspective that other Christians are brothers and sisters in Christ. Wisdom is knowing that judging is playing God. That condemning is the heart of Satan and his words speak through those that condemn. That the Spirit of Christ is love. The words written in the scriptures will be forever debated, but there is no hope of understanding, if you do not know the Spirit of Christ.

Pearl said:

Denominations don't save you. The church doesn't save you. Only Jesus can save you whichever church/denomination/fellowship you belong to.

Click to expand...

Absolutely.
The Catholic Church has ALWAYS taught this.

WOW With all the post you have written so large overtime, you have probably written the bible several times.
Have you brought anyone here to Christ.
Seems like you may have several times.

Not making fun - being serious.

Taken said:

So ?
WHO said Peter was Never IN Rome?
Simon Peter was specifically Commanded to Not Go in the WAY of the Gentiles to Preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ!
Paul was Specifically SENT to Go in the WAY of the Gentiles "and" Jews TO preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ!
Are you oblivious to the Fact...Rome was the Capital city of the Roman Empire? Roman Gentile Citizens? Among the Romans...non- Citizen Jews under Roman Gentile command?
Paul, Not Simon Peter "taught" the Gospel of Jesus Christ in Rome...
Paul, Not Simon Peter "taught" Jews AND Gentile's In Rome.
Paul was a Brethren to the Jews, because Paul was a Jew!
Paul (unlike Simon Peter), was also a Roman Citizen, entitled with certain RIGHTS, not Given to non-Citizen Jews. (Like Simon Peter).
No communication from Any Jew out of Judea...
About Paul coming to Teach the Jews in Rome, the Gospel of Jesus Christ???

Correct!
It was not the Command of the 12 To send communication to Announce Paul, or Teach Jesus Christ...certainly NOT in the Capital city of the Gentiles!
It was Paul's Command to GO to them and teach the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Paul went to Rome, and Taught to All coming to him to Hear the Gospel of Jesus Christ, which had been ... previously Spoken AGAINST in Rome.

Surely had SIMON PETER, gone to Rome TO Teach the Gospel of Jesus Christ...
1) the Chief Jews would not have told Paul, the teaching in Rome was to Be AGAINST Jesus.
2) and Simon Peter would have Violated The Lords Command for him to Not go by WAY of the Gentiles and Preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
However there WAS a Simon, a in Rome...(Before Paul)...teaching HIS WAY TO GOD...that WAS AGAINST Jesus Christ...and the Romans Gentiles, treated him, as a "god"!
Simon (Magus), a Samaritan, sorcerer, magician...( was lectured in Samaria) ..the Power of the Holy Spirit could NOT BE Bought with Money!
This Simon went to Rome and Preached himself, chosen of God, Before Paul arrived in Rome.
This Simon, was treated by the Gentile Romans, as a god, as this Simon displayed his sorcery and magic, impressive to the Gentile Romans...
This Simon, died in Rome...But was not forgotten) A work of art in remembrance of him...graces the Catholic Basilica of Saint-Sernin, Toulouse, France.
Traveling is one thing...Teaching and Preaching...was A Specific Command of Christ Jesus TO: His appointed Apostles!
Try on Jesus' Doctrine for a change, from your usual c-doctrine.

Click to expand...

What a gigantic load of manure.

You start off by saying: "WHO said Peter was Never IN Rome?"

THEN, in closing, you say if he HAD been in Rome - he would have "violated the Lord's command for him to Not go by WAY of the Gentiles and Preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ" - then compared him to Simon Magus.
What an asinine and Scripturally-bankrupt diatribe.

Did you forget that it was PETER who baptized the first converted Gentile - Cornelius and his household in Acts 10??
Jesus never "commanded" Peter NOT to preach to Gentiles. He told ALL of the Twelve not to preach to the Gentiles went He sent them out on their FIRST MISSION in Matt. 10:5. This wasn't a lifelong command, Einstein - it was very specific to that first mission.

As I schooled you before - the UNANIMOUS testimonies of the Early Church Fathers attest to the fact that not ONLY was Peter IN Rome with Paul - but that He co-founded that Church with Paul and was the First Bishop of Rome. He appointed Linus as the Second Bishop of Rome.
You don't have a Scriptural or historical leg to stand on . . .

Dionysius of Corinth
You have also, by your very admonition, brought together the planting that was made by Peter and Paul at Rome and at Corinth; for both of them alike planted in our Corinth and taught us; and both alike, teaching similarly in Italy, suffered martyrdom at the same time (Letter to Soter of Rome [inter A.D. 166 -174] as recorded by Eusebius).

Irenaeus
Matthew also issued among the Hebrews a written Gospel in their own language, while Peter and Paul were evangelizing in Rome and laying the foundation of the Church. After their departure, Mark, the disciple and interpreter of Peter, also handed down to us in writing what had been preached by Peter (Against Heresies 3:1:1 [A.D. 189]).
But since it would be too long to enumerate in such a volume as this the successions of all the Churches, we shall confound all those who, in whatever manner, whether through self-satisfaction or vainglory, or through blindness and wicked opinion, assemble other than where it is proper, by pointing out here the successions of the bishops of the greatest and most ancient Church known to all, founded and organized at Rome by the two most glorious Apostles, Peter and Paul, that Church which has the tradition and the faith which comes down to us after having been announced to men by the Apostles. For with this Church, because of its superior origin, all Churches must agree, that is, all the faithful in the whole world; and it is in her that the faithful everywhere have maintained the Apostolic tradition (Against Heresies 3:3:2 [A.D. 189]).

Tertullian
Let us see what milk the Corinthians drained from Paul; against what standard the Galatians were measured for correction; what the Philippians, Thessalonians, and Ephesians read; what even the nearby Romans sound forth, to whom both Peter and Paul bequeathed the Gospel and even sealed it with their blood (Against Marcion 4:5:1 [inter A.D. 207-212]).

Eusebius
The Apostle Peter, after he has established the Church in Antioch, is sent to Rome, where he remains bishop of that city, preaching the Gospel for twenty-five years (The Chronicle, Ad An. Dom. 42 [A.D. 303]).
When Peter preached the Word publicly at Rome, and declared the Gospel by the Spirit, many who were present requested that Mark, who had been for a long time his follower and who remembered his sayings, should write down what had been proclaimed. Having composed the Gospel, he gave it to those who had requested it (Ecclesiastical History 6:14:1 [A.D. 325]).

Peter of Alexandria
Peter, the first chosen of the Apostles, having been apprehended often and thrown into prison and treated with ignominy, at last was crucified in Rome (Canonical Letter, canon 9 [A.D. 306]).

Lactantius
When Nero was already reigning Peter came to Rome, where, in virtue of the performance of certain miracles which he worked by that power of God which had been given to him, he converted many to righteousness and established a firm and steadfast temple to God. When this fact was reported to Nero, he noticed that not only at Rome but everywhere great multitudes were daily abandoning the worship of idols, and, condemning their old ways, were going over to the new religion. Peter, he fixed to a cross; and Paul, he slew (The Deaths of the Persecutors 2:5 [inter A.D. 316-320]).

Cyril of Jerusalem
[Simon Magus] so deceived the City of Rome that Claudius erected a statue of him, and wrote beneath it in the language of the Romans Simoni Deo Sancto, which is translated To the Holy God Simon. While the error was extending itself Peter and Paul arrived, a noble pair and the rulers of the Church; and they set the error aright… for Peter was there, he that carries about the keys of heaven (Catechetical Lectures 6:14 [A.D. 350]).

Damasus
The first see, therefore, is that of Peter the Apostle, that of the Roman Church, which has neither stain nor blemish nor anything like it. The second see, however, is that at Alexandria, consecrated in behalf of blessed Peter by Mark, his disciple and an evangelist, who was sent to Egypt by the Apostle Peter, where he preached the word of truth and finished his glorious martyrdom. The third honorable see, indeed, is that at Antioch, which belonged to the most blessed Apostle Peter, where first he dwelt before he came to Rome, and where the name Christians was first applied, as to a new people (The Decree of Damasus 3 [A.D. 382]).

Taken said:

Sure. No disagreement there



Fellowship IS:
friendly association, especially with people who share one's interests.





You reveal separate denominations from your own, exceptions to their beliefs, and your judgement of Calvinists having satanic beliefs...but "you" fellowship with them...(assuming on your "common" agreeable interests with them.)

You still call them "Christians"...that's admirable...since "They" call themselves Christians...and no one said otherwise.



So? Scripture teaches, a man being Baptized with the Holy Spirit IS an UNSEEN event between the Lord God an THAT Individual.



Not sure what Tongues OF the Holy Spirit is...or why human men would say they are speaking the Spirit's Tongue.
Most Christians speakers I know typically Speak and Understand English.
Obviously I would not GO and listen to a Latin, Spanish, Russian, Chinese, Arabic speaker preaching the Gospel of Jesus Christ.



Pretty confidant IF the ARE a Saved and born Again Christian...He already has had mercy on their souls.



Sure, no different than Catholics, with their Bishop in charge of their Churches Congregation...and teaching Who is Saved and Who is condemned to hell.

So what? Didn't Jesus Teach who is saved, who Will be saved and Who is condemned and waiting in hell for a judgemental sentence of damnation?



Wisdom is loving All others, and Knowing that is possible solely By the indwelling of the Holy Spirit...not by labeling oneself a Christian...

Jesus Himself revealed the Specifics...
Receiving Forgiveness, Receiving Salvation and Being Born Again.

Those things have nothing to do with Lables...less one uses the Label Jesus revealed...which is "saint".



Disagree.
Loving everyone does not mean Agreeing with everyone or being Yoked with everyone.
How do you agree or disagree without Judging what is your belief Is not the same as an others?

If an other, calling themselves by whatever title... does not Agree Salvation and Born Again is necessary or Through Christ...
Do you not hold a Judgement they are not INDWELT with the Holy Spirit?

If you do not discriminate and make judgements...how do you know whom you are being "yoked" with?

I think perhaps you have a misunderstanding... no one is claiming to have the Power to Pronounce Judgement and Sentence upon a person...Christ Jesus has that handled.
But surely you must know by your own judgement of who you agree and disagree with and WHY.

.

Huh? Jesus shall Judge and sentence Condemnation and raise up bodies to Damnation...not Satan.



Uh huh...and Gods Love is given ALL of His "CREATED" mankind...
And without doubt...Gods hate is ALSO given toward ALL of mankind...who Reject Him...and thus Refused to have God "MAKE" them Wholly, WHOLE and holy.

And you should know, hate is not the Opposite of Love.
Hate is a Strong DIS-LIKE.



Yep, likely so.



Yep, agree...
1 Chr 22:
[12] Only the LORD give thee wisdom and understanding...

Glory to God,
Taken

Click to expand...

Not sure what Tongues OF the Holy Spirit is...or why human men would say they are speaking the Spirit's Tongue.
Most Christians speakers
Well if you go to a Pentecostal church they will explain it all to you.

So what? Didn't Jesus Teach who is saved, who Will be saved and Who is condemned and waiting in hell for a judgmental sentence of damnation?
Very true...you be Jesus or His brother? Which ones you think will be waiting? Opinions without wisdom is a dangerous thing! Dangerous for you! For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it. Few..... Knowledge trumps opinions....be sure of the ruler you use to judge with, because you might end up being beat with it!

Loving everyone does not mean Agreeing with everyone or being Yoked with everyone.
How do you agree or disagree without Judging what is your belief Is not the same as an others?
Not sure if I understand the question or disagreement, but I am an omelet with hash browns on the side. The question is are you smart enough to pick the right "yoke"? The right soup box to stand on, so you can see who you are judging?

Judging...condemners....gossipers....bank robbers.....murderers.....child abusers......what do they have in common, they justify what they do. Take a course in theology and you will find that "Justification" is a long topic..... Some say that the road to hell is paved with good intentions...if so, the direction of that road was planned by justification. Have you ever wondered why Christ's most lengthy topics on sin were about judging and hypocrisy? When face to face with adultery, what did He do? When His Apostles were accused of not following the "right religious rules" what did Christ do?

And without doubt...Gods hate is ALSO given toward ALL of mankind...who Reject Him...and thus Refused to have God "MAKE" them Wholly, WHOLE and holy.
Do you believe that Christ came here to die for the sinless, or holy as you say? So why does Christ cherishes the lost sheep the most? And why would He leave the flock to minister to the lost sheep? So the flock He leaves behind to find those lost sheep, are they sinless? Did Yeshua confirm the beliefs and denominations of people before He healed them? So while we were sinners, does He love us? Do we ever become "not sinners"? When does He stop loving us? And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

You reveal separate denominations from your own, exceptions to their beliefs, and your judgement of Calvinists having satanic beliefs...but "you" fellowship with them...(assuming on your "common" agreeable interests with them.

All Christians are the sheep of Christ. All Christians are the body of Christ. All Christians are the children of God...Family of God. All of us are working out our walk with Christ. That is between them and Christ. I will not ridicule God's process. I trust that Christ will minister to their hearts and their faith. Not my pay grade to step in and second guess Christ.

And you should know, hate is not the Opposite of Love.
Hate is a Strong DIS-LIKE.
lol If you are going to educate me on the languages of the Bible you are going to have to study a little harder. There are translations of the Bible I prefer but I study at the language level and then there is the history. The New Testament was written in pagan languages. The writers were tasked with taken those languages....those words.....and using them to convey Christian meanings. At times they would modify the definitions of Greek words to suite their purpose. Simply put....
If a Roman told you he hated you, it meant...a burning heartfelt hate...detest....and you were abominable. Death was about to become you.
If the Christians writers used the same word in the scriptures, sometimes it meant.....undesirable. But not always, try looking up all of the NT scriptures that contain the word hate and see if like-less or dislikes fits.

Is Any Denomination Saved?

Where did the idea denominationalism come from...God? or man?

God says there is "one faith". The NT is one body of information that teaches one system of faith. Christ calls it truth meaning it does not ever contradict itself. Denominationalism says there are many faithS, as in "what faith are you?"

God says there is "one body" one church (Ephesians 5:23; Colossians 1:18). The Bible uses the institution of marriage to show Christ's relationship to His church. Ephesians 5:22-32. Paul is using marriage to show that the church is 'married' to Christ, the church is the Bride of Christ, Christ is the husband of the church (2 Corinthians 11:2). Marriage in the Bible is one husband married to one wife. Not one husband married to thousands of wives. Christ is not a spiritual polygamist, spiritual adulterer with many brides. Denominationalism says there are many churches, many brides of Christ

Philippians 3:16, Christians are to walk by the same rule, mind the same thing. The word rule (kanon) means a standard of measure which allows no diversity in the understanding God's word nor allows for changing of God's word. Denominationalism says there are many standards to follow even man made standards and that contradictions between the Bible and man made standards, contradictions between doctrines of various religious groups do not matter.

Seasoned by Grace said:

The original church didn't last very long, as there were so many false teachers rising up from the church and even attacking Paul and attacking His credibility.

There isn't an organized religion left where true and complete salvation can be found, let alone at any of the Churches mentioned on this forum.

Click to expand...

And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it.

Hmmm, either His church did indeed 'last very long', and must still be around today, or Jesus is proven a false prophet...

Well, it turns out that Church is still around. Perhaps one should give her a hearing?

The Spirit and the bride say, "Come." Let the hearer say, "Come." Let the one who thirsts come forward, and the one who wants it receive the gift of life-giving water

Peace be with you!

You wonder who started the concept of denominations?

Galatians 1:8
But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed!

What is a denomination if it is not a standard and established set of beliefs? The Apostles tried to keep the Gospels standard, Christian beliefs standard. The name of the denomination….the Way…. The Apostles did not think to continue the secession of Apostles because they thought there was no need….thinking that Christ’s return would be in their lifetimes. So the Gospels, epistles, and letters were scattered around to the churches. But no one was officially designated to continue on in their stead, not even the churches. What was left was a curse for anyone that would change anything….this is one of the reasons that I warn against opinions. Is it important to get it right? Tens of thousands of denominations with differing beliefs and an unnumbered amount of free-lance believers. How many are accursed?

Protestants like to think that the free-lance believers are their connection to the Gospels, and Catholics would like to think that Peter is their authoritative connection to Christ and the Gospels. So the Catholics believe these scriptures apply to them, and they formed some of their beliefs by them.

Matthew 18:18
Truly I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven.

Matthew 16:18-19
I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church; and the gates of Hades will not overpower it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; and whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven.”

John 20:23
If you forgive the sins of any, their sins have been forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they have been retained.”

So the oldest Christian church in the world took the reins and boy did they make a mess of things. Then again if these scriptures apply to the free-lance believers then they can change nearly anything.

I have nothing against the modern Catholic Church or the churches of Protestantism. As far as I am concerned we are all in the same boat. Some form their beliefs by picking one of the translations of the Holy Bible and also some say that the Holy Spirit guides them….but how can the Holy Spirit guide them in so many directions? Some study very deeply but that actually is like science….the more you know the more questions you have.

So this is why I call myself Christian and embrace and fellowship with so many denominations. This is why I say it is important to look at the actions of Christ, not just His words to give us guidance. What is left for us is in the scriptures and those that are devoted to them do the best they can to understand….I am not going to pick a side because I think that love is the key to understanding the best we can. The "I am right and you are wrong" thing is of no benefit and divides and weakens Christ’s Church on earth. If you want to debate that point….let me know.

Seasoned by Grace said:

LOVE THIS
YOU ARE DEAD ON.
Denominationalism is the "NEW CHRISTIANITY" that "VIOLATES" all that God had originally intended for man as a "GIFT" for eternal life.
Paul predicted in 2nd Corinthians there would be a great falling away, and it has been happening every since.

The original church didn't last very long, as there were so many false teachers rising up from the church and even attacking Paul and attacking His credibility.

There isn't an organized religion left where true and complete salvation can be found, let alone at any of the Churches mentioned on this forum.

True believers are being called to Christ Himself and out of all the churches, as the chosen of God and as a remnant that will be DRAWN UP at Christ's return.

This is Christ's teaching on the "FEW" and the REMNANT. Both words mean the same. Check your thesaurus.
Matthew 714 ,"For the gate is small, and the way is "Narrow" that leads to life, and "FEW" are those who find it. "
Luke 13 23:24, "And someone said to Jesus, Lord, are there just a "FEW" who are being saved? And Jesus said to them,
"Strive to enter by the "NARROW" door, for many I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able."

God bless you all as you "Strive" to enter the "NARROW" gate.

My name is OLIGOS

Click to expand...

Ernest T. Bass said:

Matthew 16:18 Jesus said the gates of hell would not prevail against His church (singular word) therefore His church has always existed from Pentecost Acts 2 through today and will exist in eternity. Unfortunately many -most of those first century congregations ended up in apostasy but not all. There were times in history where God's people, His church, were very few in number but it always existed.

Daniel said in his prophecy of the church "And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: (it's indestructible) and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever. (it's eternal) " Daniel 2:44

Salvation is only found in the body of Christ, the church, and if it no longer exists then the gates of hell prevailed against it and there is no salvation for anyone today.​

Click to expand...

You are correct, and I should have said "The church didn't last very long...IN LARGE NUMBERS"!!
I stand corrected - THANK YOU!!

My name is OLIGOS

Taken said:

In Fact...post # 466
You were asked a Question...
The Question was:
"So why is it Catholics teach Peter was a Teacher and Bishop in Rome?"
So? The question was not...WAS Peter in Rome.
So I asked you, ( Another QUESTION ) Who said Peter was Not in Rome?
Your reply to The QUESTION...
Blah, blah, blah...
It is overwhelming Obvious you require schooling in the difference between:
A Question and Statement!

Glory to God,
Taken

Click to expand...

So, I guess the best way to approach this subject with a person like YOU who speaks in glaring contradictions is:
Was Peter IN Rome?
Did Peter TEACH in Rome?

YOUR turn . . .

Seasoned by Grace said:

None of us who have left our churches or come on a forum have any agenda and preach no other faith of any kind. We have no faith other than the truth in Christ

Click to expand...

Dear Oligos,

One does not have to leave the Church to find the truth in Christ, for the Truth is found in her teachings.
For 'we have the mind of Christ' is a communal 'we'. Christ and His Church are one!

Any spirit calling one out of the Church is not the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit calls us to unity, not division:

with all humility and gentleness, with patience, bearing with one another through love,

striving to preserve the unity of the spirit through the bond of peace:

one body and one Spirit, as you were also called to the one hope of your call;

one Lord, one faith, one baptism;

one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.

No we are not called out of the Church, but out of the world and the land of confusion...

The apostle John has this to say about the spirit that calls people out of the community of the brethren:

Children, it is the last hour; and just as you heard that the antichrist was coming, so now many antichrists have appeared. Thus we know this is the last hour.

They went out from us, but they were not really of our number; if they had been, they would have remained with us. Their desertion shows that none of them was of our number.


You too! Are welcome to come to the wedding feast of the Lamb of God!

Christ IS risen!
Alleluia!