Who Will The Judas Of The Elect (man Child) Be?

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whirlwind

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QUOTE (watchman @ Apr 13 2009, 06:57 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=72490
The Bible tells us that the number that will be kiiled is a number beyond numbering.Revelation 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;Who are these that were given white robes?Revelation 713 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
All of us will go through the great tribulation, if we are living when the event transpires. Believers, are those in the white robes. It isn't that they were killed or not but that they stayed true to Christ and were not worshipping the fake when the True Christ arrived.QUOTE
And how did they come out of the great tribulation?Revelation 69 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled. Soooo, according to whirlwind very few saints will be killed at the hands of the anti christ, but according to scripture a number too great to be counted will be killed.
Your quote from Revelation 6 shows that time frame was/is at the fifth seal. Soon it will be the sixth seal when "their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were" will meet the same fate. But, you are combining both scriptures to be the same and they are not. Those that will be killed are not the same as the great multitudes in white robes. Those that will be killed are few in number but their allowing the Holy Spirit to speak through them is what awakens the multitudes to His truth. You asked....."Now the plagues upon the wicked the righteous will bbe safe from it is the wrath of man and of satan that we will have to endure."His wrath is only for those that take the mark and don't repent. Many of the righteous will take the mark but their eyes and ears will be opened before the 7th trump sounds.
 

watchman

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QUOTE (whirlwind @ Apr 14 2009, 10:32 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=72526
His wrath is only for those that take the mark and don't repent. Many of the righteous will take the mark but their eyes and ears will be opened before the 7th trump sounds. [/b]
This is 100% false anyone that takes the mark of the beast is doomed, there will be no repentance for them.Revelation 149 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. Anyone that receives the mark is done for, that is why we as the saints must be patient to endure through the trib not giving in to our hunger ect....
 

whirlwind

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QUOTE (watchman @ Apr 14 2009, 10:49 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=72527
This is 100% false anyone that takes the mark of the beast is doomed, there will be no repentance for them.Revelation 149 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. Anyone that receives the mark is done for, that is why we as the saints must be patient to endure through the trib not giving in to our hunger ect....
The hunger of end times is for "hearing the Words of the Lord." [Amos 8:11] There is only one unforgiveable sin...and taking the mark isn't it. There are many good Christian people that will take the mark either because they are misled, didn't study enough, took man's word over God's or are among those blinded BY GOD Himself until a certain time. For whatever reason...there will be many that take the mark. If they see what they have done and repent...BEFORE His arrival then they are forgiven.Matthew 18:21-22 Then came Peter to Him, and said, "Lord how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?" Jesus saith unto him, "I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.
 

watchman

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QUOTE (whirlwind @ Apr 14 2009, 12:44 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=72532
The hunger of end times is for "hearing the Words of the Lord." [Amos 8:11] There is only one unforgiveable sin...and taking the mark isn't it. There are many good Christian people that will take the mark either because they are misled, didn't study enough, took man's word over God's or are among those blinded BY GOD Himself until a certain time. For whatever reason...there will be many that take the mark. If they see what they have done and repent...BEFORE His arrival then they are forgiven.Matthew 18:21-22 Then came Peter to Him, and said, "Lord how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?" Jesus saith unto him, "I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.
The Bible says anyone that takes the mark of the beast is going to burn, I will just have to go with what scriptures says. It also says that if we do not take the mark we cannot buy or sell so I think we will be hungry for food.
 

Jordan

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QUOTE (watchman @ Apr 14 2009, 12:25 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=72533
The Bible says anyone that takes the mark of the beast is going to burn, I will just have to go with what scriptures says. It also says that if we do not take the mark we cannot buy or sell so I think we will be hungry for food.
You think God's Words are so easy 100% of the time to find that makes people know everything, and won't be deceived? Give me a break here.Matthew 13:10 - And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?Matthew 13:11 - He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.Matthew 13:12 - For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.Matthew 13:13 - Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.Matthew 13:14 - And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:Matthew 13:15 - For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.........John 4:30 - Then they went out of the city, and came unto him.John 4:31 - In the mean while his disciples prayed him, saying, Master, eat.John 4:32 - But he said unto them, I have meat to eat that ye know not of.John 4:33 - Therefore said the disciples one to another, Hath any man brought him ought to eat?John 4:34 - Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work.If knowing the Truth so easy to find, Christ would never say these words at all. And you are wrong on your part, there is no literal burning forever, but you are free to believe whatever you want.
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But here is a suggestion, stop throwing insults at people just because they don't believe like you do, and stop scaring off people in this forum because of your prejudice and that clearly goes against what God is saying. Stop dividing the Body.
 

whirlwind

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QUOTE (watchman @ Apr 14 2009, 12:25 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=72533
The Bible says anyone that takes the mark of the beast is going to burn, I will just have to go with what scriptures says. It also says that if we do not take the mark we cannot buy or sell so I think we will be hungry for food.
Taking the mark is spiritual in nature. It is to believe his lies, fall for the deception. As far as the buying and selling....Luke 19:45 And He went into the temple, and began to cast out them that sold therein, and them that bought;Revelation 13:16-17 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
That is what BUYING AND SELLING in the end of days means! Those under control of the beast are and will steal the souls of His children through their deceptive false teachings! When Satan is here only those that follow him will be in power or...allowed to teach or control (buy and sell) God's children!​
19:46 Saying unto them, "It is written, 'My house is the house of prayer: but ye have made it a den of thieves.19:47 And He taught daily in the temple. But the chief priests and the scribes and the chief of the people sought to destroy Him,
He is the Word and the Word teaches all of us who are His temple each day but at the same time....those involved in false religion and those that rule over us...politicians, seek to destroy Him. As they are affiliated with the subtle one, the serpent....they too destroy with subtilty and deception.The "chief priests" are the false religious leaders and teachers, the "chief of the people" are our political leaders and that leaves...."the scribes." The Strong's descibes them as...professional writers. I wonder if they are today's media...the press, television news as well as writers of such NOVELS as the Left Behind series? They all attempt to destroy His message of salvation by misleading...deceptive false love, false worship...misleading His children. They are buying and selling souls.
19:48 And could not find what they might do: for all the people were very attentive to hear Him.
There are many that love Christ and search for Him with eager hearts and yet...they are the souls that are "bought and sold" by the chief priests, scribes and chief of the people!​
 

Christina

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QUOTE (whirlwind @ Apr 14 2009, 02:18 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=72538
Taking the mark is spiritual in nature. It is to believe his lies, fall for the deception. As far as the buying and selling....Luke 19:45 And He went into the temple, and began to cast out them that sold therein, and them that bought;Revelation 13:16-17 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
That is what BUYING AND SELLING in the end of days means! Those under control of the beast are and will steal the souls of His children through their deceptive false teachings! When Satan is here only those that follow him will be in power or...allowed to teach or control (buy and sell) God's children!​
19:46 Saying unto them, "It is written, 'My house is the house of prayer: but ye have made it a den of thieves.19:47 And He taught daily in the temple. But the chief priests and the scribes and the chief of the people sought to destroy Him,
He is the Word and the Word teaches all of us who are His temple each day but at the same time....those involved in false religion and those that rule over us...politicians, seek to destroy Him. As they are affiliated with the subtle one, the serpent....they too destroy with subtilty and deception.The "chief priests" are the false religious leaders and teachers, the "chief of the people" are our political leaders and that leaves...."the scribes." The Strong's descibes them as...professional writers. I wonder if they are today's media...the press, television news as well as writers of such NOVELS as the Left Behind series? They all attempt to destroy His message of salvation by misleading...deceptive false love, false worship...misleading His children. They are buying and selling souls.
19:48 And could not find what they might do: for all the people were very attentive to hear Him.
There are many that love Christ and search for Him with eager hearts and yet...they are the souls that are "bought and sold" by the chief priests, scribes and chief of the people!​
very well put Whirlwind and might add from above this is the famine you will endure 10And I will turn your feasts into mourning, and all your songs into lamentation; and I will bring up sackcloth upon all loins, and baldness upon every head; and I will make it as the mourning of an only son, and the end thereof as a bitter day. 11Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD: 12And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east, they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the LORD, and shall not find it. 13In that day shall the fair virgins and young men faint for thirst.
 

tomwebster

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QUOTE (whirlwind @ Apr 12 2009, 09:09 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=72412
The events of the past are examples for us in the end of days. Christ Himself was our greatest example of what will be.Matthew 26:20-22 Now when even was come, He sat down with the twelve. And as they did eat, He said, "Verily I say unto you, that one of you shall betray Me." And they were exceeding sorrowful, and began every one of them to say unto Him, "Lord, is it I?"Judas also asked this…knowing he was the culprit for he had already consulted with the chief priests and asked…
26:15-16 What will ye give me, and I will deliver Him unto you?" And they covenanted with him for thirty pieces of silver. And from that time he sought opportunity to betray Him.​
26:23-24 And He answered and said, "He that dippeth his hand with Me in the dish, the same shall betray Me. The Son of man goeth as it is written of Him: but woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! It had been good for that man if he had not been born."
So, we see from the example that whoever the Judas of the end times is…will be among us, one of us…a believer. As he sold Christ so will the Judas of end times, or the group he is symbolic of, sell the elect.
Revelation 13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.​
Will that person/group have full understanding of what they are doing? Will they willingly turn the elect over to Satan for money or whatever they wish to achieve? Or will they, "know not what they do?" Remember, even though Judas sold Him, he also said….
Mark 14:44 And he that betrayed Him had given them a token, saying, "Whomsoever I shall kiss, that same is He; take Him, and lead Him away safely."​
Notice that the above Scripture is 1444…I so often see those numbers affiliated with the elect. I believe they are the mark of the elect, a sign He shares with us.Who will the Judas be? Will they feel righteous when they do this, believing they do the work of God? As Christ said, "The Son of man goeth as it is written of Him," just as it is written of the man child…it will happen but I wonder who will fill that prophesied role. My personal feeling is...in their minds they will believe they are doing the right thing but they are blind to His truth.

I expect it could be family members and/or friends, but even more likely candidates are those well intentioned Christian friends and associates that think you are going to the wrong Church, or you don't agree with this Pastor or that Pastor's teaching. "My Pastor said this teaching was true and that's the way it is."
 

watchman

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QUOTE (Jordan @ Apr 14 2009, 05:07 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=72536
If knowing the Truth so easy to find, Christ would never say these words at all. And you are wrong on your part, there is no literal burning forever, but you are free to believe whatever you want.
smile.gif
But here is a suggestion, stop throwing insults at people just because they don't believe like you do, and stop scaring off people in this forum because of your prejudice and that clearly goes against what God is saying. Stop dividing the Body.
The truth is easy to find, if you just accept what scripture says and believe it, instead of trying to complicate it with all types of wild doctrines of man, and then trying to force those beliefs into scripture. I believe only what the Bible sates as truth, and I will not be moved by philosophies of men.
 

whirlwind

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QUOTE (tomwebster @ Apr 14 2009, 05:23 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=72548
I expect it could be family members and/or friends, but even more likely candidates are those well intentioned Christian friends and associates that think you are going to the wrong Church, or you don't agree with this Pastor or that Pastor's teaching. "My Pastor said this teaching was true and that's the way it is."
Hi Tom, This morning I listened to a program in which Matthew was being read. The Words are in agreement with what you are saying. If the "type" we are given of Christ's trial holds, and I have no doubt it will, then it will be the religious organizations, led by those that work for Satan stirring the crowds again. My question would be...what of those of us not affiliated with a religious group? Perhaps the testimony we give now is being taken note of by those that keep such notes...
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My personal belief is that we are presently in the three and one half year wilderness trek and the witnesses are testifying.
QUOTE (watchman @ Apr 15 2009, 11:40 AM) [url="index.php?act=findpost&pid=72590][/url]
The truth is easy to find, if you just accept what scripture says and believe it, instead of trying to complicate it with all types of wild doctrines of man, and then trying to force those beliefs into scripture. I believe only what the Bible sates as truth, and I will not be moved by philosophies of men.
You shouldn't be moved to accept everything or anything any man teaches but at the same time you should consider what they teach. Some are led by the Holy Spirit. That is why you test the fruit. Is it documented in His Word...or not?Galatians 4:1-2 Now I say, That the heir, as long as he is a child, differeth nothing from a servant, though he be lord of all; But is under tutors and governors until the time appointed of the father.
And then we arrive at the time appointed....​
John 14:26 But the Comforter, Which is the Holy Ghost, Whom the Father will send in My name, He shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.16:12-13 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when He, the Spirit of truth, is come, He will guide you into all truth: for He shall not speak of Himself; but whatsoever He shall hear, that shall He speak: and he will shew you things to come.