Why do we need priests?

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Philip James

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I am quite familiar with early church history,

Well then you should be familiar with this:

And on the Lord's own day gather yourselves together and break bread and give thanks, first confessing your transgressions, that your sacrifice may be pure.
And let no man, having his dispute with his fellow, join your assembly until they have been reconciled, that your sacrifice may not be defiled;
for this sacrifice it is that was spoken of by the Lord;
{In every place and at every time offer Me a pure sacrifice;
for I am a great king, saith the Lord and My name is wonderful among the nations.}


And this 'pure offering' continues to be made daily by the Church in every apostolic community.

A body that could summarily appear and disappear at will?? A body that could walk through walls? A body that could ascend into Heaven?

Are you serious?? Get real!!

Yes, absolutely serious. The ressurection of the body is a fundamental tenet of the Christian faith, again, as witnessed by every apostolic community.

Peace!
 

Stan B

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Well then you should be familiar with this:

And on the Lord's own day gather yourselves together and break bread and give thanks, first confessing your transgressions, that your sacrifice may be pure.
And let no man, having his dispute with his fellow, join your assembly until they have been reconciled, that your sacrifice may not be defiled;
for this sacrifice it is that was spoken of by the Lord;
{In every place and at every time offer Me a pure sacrifice;
for I am a great king, saith the Lord and My name is wonderful among the nations.}


And this 'pure offering' continues to be made daily by the Church in every apostolic community.

While you might consider Sola Scriptura to be unacceptable, that has been the belief of many of the early church fathers, since the very beginning.

Eusebius AD 325, in his Second Book against Sabellius, he expressly declares that if a word is not found in Scripture, it is satisfactory to him: "As to not inquiring into truths which submit to investigation, it is indolent, so prying into others where scrutiny is expedient, is audacity. Into what truths should ought we then search? Those which we find recorded in Scriptures. But what we do not find recorded there, let us not search after. For had the knowledge of them been incumbent on us, the Holy Spirit would doubtless placed them there . . . Speak that which is written, and strife will be abandoned."

I find that an intelligent approach to Scripture, one that I have followed for the past 70 years.
 

Philip James

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While you might consider Sola Scriptura to be unacceptable, that has been the belief of many of the early church fathers, since the very beginning.

Eusebius AD 325, in his Second Book against Sabellius, he expressly declares that if a word is not found in Scripture, it is satisfactory to him: "As to not inquiring into truths which submit to investigation, it is indolent, so prying into others where scrutiny is expedient, is audacity. Into what truths should ought we then search? Those which we find recorded in Scriptures. But what we do not find recorded there, let us not search after. For had the knowledge of them been incumbent on us, the Holy Spirit would doubtless placed them there . . . Speak that which is written, and strife will be abandoned."

I find that an intelligent approach to Scripture, one that I have followed for the past 70 years.

Dear Stan,
That's the point, it IS written. I even gave you the verse: Malachi 1:11

You too! Are welcome to come to the wedding feast of the Lamb of God!

Peace be with you!
 

marksman

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I'm not here to get "likes".
I'm only here to debunk LIES about the Catholic Church.

funny how you couldn't address the Rabbi/Teacher issue and chose instead to talk about the number of "likes" I've garnered . . .
You are getting totally boring and irrelevant.
 

marksman

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The false accusations of there being very "little" of Christ in the Catholic Church - and that I am "anti-Protestant".

As for your charge that God transforming bread and wine into the Body and Blood of Christ is "nonsensical twaddle" -
You can believe that He merely spoke and the entire UNIVERSE lept into existence - be He is completely UNABLE to transform bread and wine into His Body and Blood??

Your lack of faith is appalling.
No one needs faith to believe denominational rubbish. So you are saying that millions that are at mass ALL get a bit of Christ's body at the same time? What other jokes do you tell?
 
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marksman

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Philip James sez>> "On the contrary, this has been the practice of the Church from the very beginning, and recognized as the fulfillment of Malachi 1:11
I would challenge you to find any apostolic community that says otherwise."


I am quite familiar with early church history, and it was common practice to include bread and wine in their evening meals, and in accordance with their Passover tradition, they pronounce a blessing over the bread, and again for the wine. Just like the church at Corinth, where bread and wine were included in their weekend evening service. No magical priest to transform their meal into a dead body event.

Then as the western church started to become corrupted, priests seized upon the opportunity to focus some sort of magical powers upon themselves. And the tradition of taking bread and wine home the sick by family members became forbidden along with laity in the church serving remembrance of the Lord.

Philip James sez>> "How does displaying an image of the love of Christ for the world deny His resurrection? Your baseless assertions are, frankly, ridiculous."

Perpetrating a lie of the devil is not an act of love, other than for the devil.

Philip James sez>> "Hmmm, I'm pretty sure Jesus made it clear to Thomas that He had indeed risen bodily from the dead. !"

A body that could summarily appear and disappear at will?? A body that could walk through walls? A body that could ascend into Heaven?

Are you serious?? Get real!!

And then there is the other thing that the RC church forbade priests to marry about 1045 I think because if the priest died his wife inherited the property so to stop that they forbad them to marry.
 

r1xlx

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St.Augustine was a total nutcase. He introduced a whole lot of pagan ideas into the church, such as sprinkling [baptism-not!] infants because they could never enter Heaven if they died without sprinkling. Jerome carried on with these magical pagan practices, forcing them into the Roman church. Priests even sprinkle cars in the church parking lot, for good luck!! Duh!
Purgatory was invented as a way of separating widows from their dead husbands wealth.
Every Catholic church has Ishtar and Tammuz statues in and out.
Catholic mass is offering a cake to Baal the sun.
Mass drinking of blood contradicts Bible teaching and is Satanic.
Popey claims Jesus and Satan are brothers.
Until recently Catholics threw donkeys off tall towers. Maybe they hate donkeys because Jesus rode in triumph on one?
 
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Philip James

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So you are saying that millions that are at mass ALL get a bit of Christ's body at the same time?

Hello marksman,

No, no , no... We all recieve the risen Christ. Intimately. Individually and collectively, the two made one flesh..

For this reason a man shall leave (his) father and (his) mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh."

This is a great mystery, but I speak in reference to Christ and the church


You too! Are welcome to come to the wedding feast of the Lamb of God!

Peace be with you!
 

Stan B

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And then there is the other thing that the RC church forbade priests to marry about 1045 I think because if the priest died his wife inherited the property so to stop that they forbad them to marry.

Pretty close. The church distanced itself from the Roman Catholic which broke away from the church in AD 1049. I think they serve the same god as Muslims. The objective of the popes was to rule the world, and the slaughter of millions of Christians was necessary to meet that objective.

Of course forbidding clergy to marry defies Scripture which demands that clergy be married:

"An overseer/bishop then, must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, temperate, prudent, respectable, hospitable, able to teach" I Timothy 3:2

Romanism defies Scripture at every turn. They follow the father of lies.
 

Marymog

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Wine turning into blood.
Wine turning into blood? Kind of like Jesus told us to do in rememberence of Him?? You don't like the Catholics AND Protestants that do what he told us to do??? o_O

And he took a cup, and when he had given thanks he gave it to them, saying, “Drink of it, all of you; 28 for this is my blood

Or is it that you just don't believe what Jesus said???
 
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Stan B

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Wine turning into blood? Kind of like Jesus told us to do in rememberence of Him?? You don't like the Catholics AND Protestants that do what he told us to do??? o_O

And he took a cup, and when he had given thanks he gave it to them, saying, “Drink of it, all of you; 28 for this is my blood

Or is it that you just don't believe what Jesus said???

He was celebrating the Passover, in remembrance to when the Angel of Death passed over Israel. Jesus was saying this is the New Passover in remembrance of His blood which was going to be shed for us.

It was symbolic of His blood, but certainly was not some kind of magic potion. And if it was real blood, then He would have violated the laws of God, which forbids drinking blood!!

Anyway, no big deal. If it wasn't just another Roman Catholic fraud, it would easily be settled with DNA test, which would prove one way or the other, whether the bread and wine were truly Jewish flesh and blood.
 

Marymog

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He was celebrating the Passover, in remembrance to when the Angel of Death passed over Israel. Jesus was saying this is the New Passover in remembrance of His blood which was going to be shed for us.

It was symbolic of His blood, but certainly was not some kind of magic potion. And if it was real blood, then He would have violated the laws of God, which forbids drinking blood!!

Anyway, no big deal. If it wasn't just another Roman Catholic fraud, it would easily be settled with DNA test, which would prove one way or the other, whether the bread and wine were truly Jewish flesh and blood.
Hmmmm.....So when Jesus said, "This is my blood..." he really didn't mean that?

And when Paul said, "Is not the cup of thanksgiving for which we give thanks a participation in the blood of Christ? He was wrong but YOU are right??? Sounds like Paul was a Roman Catholic fraud ;)

Soooo when you participate in communion (which I know you do since you do what He told us to do) and drink the wine you are SYMBOLICLY drinking blood??? You are pretending it's blood???

Curious mary
 

BreadOfLife

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This is a demonic pagan practice. The Bible says: "By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all." Heb 10:10
Roman Catholics worship a dead Christ. All of their crucifixes display at fake dead Christ, who has never risen from the dead. They still have Him nailed to their crosses. I am sure Satan is most pleased with this pagan Bible-rejecting cult. You can't keep shedding His blood. It was ALL shed on the cross, and no pedophile can conjure of more of it, nor recreate His body! His body was transformed into a Heavenly body without flesh and blood!!
THANK YOU for confirming that WE are the Church of the Bible.

I guess Paul was writing about YOU when he wrote thE following under the inspiration of the holy Spirit:
1 Cor. 1:22-23

For Jews demand signs and Greeks seek wisdom, but WE PREACH CHRIST CRUCIFIED, a stumbling block to Jews and folly to Gentiles.

Thanks again .. .
 

BreadOfLife

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So where do the Catholics that believe this get their ideas from? Did they make it up out of the blue?
Pretty much, yes.
Poorly catechized Catholics are even worse than anti-Catholics because they spread FALSE rumors and myths about their own Church.
 

BreadOfLife

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No one needs faith to believe denominational rubbish. So you are saying that millions that are at mass ALL get a bit of Christ's body at the same time? What other jokes do you tell?
Why is that funny?
Once again - is it because you lack the faith to believe that God has the ability to do this?
 

BreadOfLife

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I am quite familiar with early church history, and it was common practice to include bread and wine in their evening meals, and in accordance with their Passover tradition, they pronounce a blessing over the bread, and again for the wine. Just like the church at Corinth, where bread and wine were included in their weekend evening service. No magical priest to transform their meal into a dead body event.
Apparently, you're NOT - otherwise you would have read the following testimonies about the Eucharist being the BODY and BLOOD of Christ.
Pay attention to what they are describing. It's NOT simply "bread and wine" to them . . .

Ignatius of Antioch
Take note of those who hold heterodox opinions on the grace of Jesus Christ which has come to us, and see how contrary their opinions are to the mind of God. . . . They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer because they do not confess that THE EUCHARIST IS THE FLESH OF OUR SAVIOR JESUS CHRIST, FLESH WHICH SUFFERED FOR OUR SINS AND WHICH THAT FATHER, IN HIS GOODNESS, RAISED UP AGAIN. They who deny the gift of God are perishing in their disputes (Letter to the Smyrnaeans 6:2-7:1 [A.D. 110]).

Justin Martyr
WE CALL THIS FOOD EUCHARIST, and no one else is permitted to partake of it, except one who believes our teaching to be true and who has been washed in the washing which is for the remission of sins and for regeneration [i.e., has received baptism] and is thereby living as Christ enjoined. For not as common bread nor common drink do we receive these, but since Jesus Christ our Savior was made incarnate by the word of God and had both flesh and blood for our salvation, so too, as we have been taught, THE FOOD WHICH HAS BEEN MADE INTO THE EUCHARIST BY THE EUCHARISTIC PRAYER SET DOWN BY HIM, AND BY THE CHANGE OF WHICH OUR BLOOD AND FLESH IS NURTURED, IS BOTH THE FLESH AND THE BLOOD OF THAT INCARNATED JESUS (First Apology 66 [A.D. 151]).

Irenaeus
He has declared the cup, a part of creation, TO BE HIS OWN BLOOD from which he causes our blood to flow; and the bread, a part of creation, he has established AS HIS OWN BODY, from which he gives increase unto our bodies. When, therefore, the mixed cup [wine and water] and the baked bread receive the Word of God AND BECOME THE EUCHARIST, THE BODY OF CHRIST, and from these the substance of our flesh is increased and supported) how can they say that the flesh is not capable of receiving the gift of God, which is eternal life — flesh which is nourished by the body and blood of the Lord and is in fact a member of him? (Against Heresies 5:2 [A.D. 189]).

Clement of Alexandria
"Eat my flesh)" [Jesus] says, "and drink my blood." The Lord supplies us with these intimate nutrients, he delivers over his flesh and pours out his blood, and nothing is lacking for the growth of his children (The Instructor of Children 1:6:43:3 [A.D. 191]).

Hippolytus
"And she [Wisdom] has furnished her table" [Proverbs 9:1] . . . refers to his [Christ's] honored and undefiled body and blood, which day by day are administered and offered sacrificially at the spiritual divine table, as a memorial of that first and ever-memorable table of the spiritual divine supper [i.e., the Last Supper] (Fragment from Commentary on Proverbs [A.D. 217]).

Aphraahat
After having spoken thus [at the Last Supper], the Lord rose up from the place where he had made the Passover and had given his body as food and his blood as drink, and he went with his disciples to the place where he was to be arrested. BUT HE ATE OF HIS OWN BODY AND DRANK OF HIS OWN BLOOD, while he was pondering on the dead.
WITH HIS OWN HANDS THE LORD PRESENTED HIS OWN BODY TO BE EATEN, and before he was crucified he gave his blood as drink (Treatises 12:6 [A.D. 340]).

Cyril of Jerusalem
The bread and the wine of the Eucharist before the holy invocation of the adorable Trinity were simple bread and wine, but the invocation having been made, THE BREAD BECOMES THE BODY OF CHRIST AND THE WINE THE BLOOD OF CHRIST (Catechetical Lectures 19:7 [A.D. 350]).

[Since you are] fully convinced that the apparent bread is not bread, even though it is sensible to the taste, but the body of Christ, and that the apparent wine is not wine, even though the taste would have it so. . . partake of that bread as something spiritual, and put a cheerful face on your soul (ibid„ 22:6,9).

Theodore
When [Christ] gave the bread he did not say, "This is the symbol of my body" but, "This is my body." In the same way when he gave the cup of his blood he did not say. "This is the symbol of my blood," but, "This is my blood," for he wanted us to look upon the [Eucharistic elements] after their reception of grace and the coming of the Holy Spirit not according to their nature, but receive them as they are, the body and blood of our Lord. We ought . . . not regard [the elements] merely as bread and cup) BUT AS THE BODY AND BLOOD OF THE LORD, into which they were transformed by the descent of the Holy Spirit (Catechetical Homilies 5:1 [A.D. 405]).

Ambrose of Milan
Perhaps you may be saying, "I see something else; how can you assure me that I am receiving the body of Christ?" It but remains for us to prove it. And how many are the examples we might use! . . . Christ is in that sacrament, because IT IS THE BODY OF CHRIST (The Mysteries 9:50, 58 [A.D. 390]).

Augustine
What you see is the bread and the chalice, that is what your own eyes report to you. But what your faith obliges you to accept is that the bread is the BODY OF CHRIST and the chalice is THE BLOOD OF CHRIST. This has been said very briefly, which may perhaps be sufficient for faith, yet faith does not desire instruction (ibid. 272).


So much for your disgusting LACK of faith . . .
 
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BreadOfLife

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It was symbolic of His blood, but certainly was not some kind of magic potion. And if it was real blood, then He would have violated the laws of God, which forbids drinking blood!!
Where does Scripture "forbid" drinking Christ's blood??

CHAPTER and VERSE, please . . .
 

Stan B

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Soooo when you participate in communion (which I know you do since you do what He told us to do) and drink the wine you are SYMBOLICLY drinking blood??? You are pretending it's blood???
Curious mary
No, I do not consider communion to be some sort of perverted vampire fest! When I drink the wine, I do it as HE requested, "Do this in remembrance of Me"

When you drink the wine, does it taste like wine, or does it taste like blood?
 
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