Pastor ?

evotell · Apr 15, 2009

While the “clergy/laity” distinction is embedded and assumed in religious circles, it cannot be found in the New Testament. Because the New Testament knows nothing of “clergy”, the fact that a separate cast of the “ordained” permeates our vocabulary and practice illustrates rather forcefully that we do not yet take the New Testament seriously. The “clergy” practice is a heresy that must be renounced. It strikes at the heart of the priesthood of all believers that Jesus purchased on the cross. It contradicts the shape that Jesus’ kingdom was to take when He said, “You are all brethren.” Since it is a tradition of man, it nullifies the Word of God. The clergy system stands as a monumental obstacle that will need dismantling if we are to see genuine reformation and renewal.

tomwebster · Apr 15, 2009

QUOTE (evotell @ Apr 15 2009, 09:51 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=72586
While the “clergy/laity” distinction is embedded and assumed in religious circles, it cannot be found in the New Testament. Because the New Testament knows nothing of “clergy”, the fact that a separate cast of the “ordained” permeates our vocabulary and practice illustrates rather forcefully that we do not yet take the New Testament seriously. The “clergy” practice is a heresy that must be renounced. It strikes at the heart of the priesthood of all believers that Jesus purchased on the cross. It contradicts the shape that Jesus’ kingdom was to take when He said, “You are all brethren.” Since it is a tradition of man, it nullifies the Word of God. The clergy system stands as a monumental obstacle that will need dismantling if we are to see genuine reformation and renewal.
So, evotell, I expect you are donating a lot of your time to a local church, right? Wonder how many weddings you perform per year, or funerals. Could you officiate at a wedding legally? Do you think just anyone can officiate at a wedding without any kind of credentials? How often do you visit people at the local hospital? When you attend your local church do you do the preaching? Do you teach Scripture lessons? Could you do the preaching and teaching every week? And would anyone come to hear you? Do you have any idea of the time commitment a pastor has to a local church?

Vickie · Apr 15, 2009

QUOTE (evotell @ Apr 15 2009, 09:51 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=72586
While the “clergy/laity” distinction is embedded and assumed in religious circles, it cannot be found in the New Testament. Because the New Testament knows nothing of “clergy”, the fact that a separate cast of the “ordained” permeates our vocabulary and practice illustrates rather forcefully that we do not yet take the New Testament seriously. The “clergy” practice is a heresy that must be renounced. It strikes at the heart of the priesthood of all believers that Jesus purchased on the cross. It contradicts the shape that Jesus’ kingdom was to take when He said, “You are all brethren.” Since it is a tradition of man, it nullifies the Word of God. The clergy system stands as a monumental obstacle that will need dismantling if we are to see genuine reformation and renewal.
Hi, I enjoyed your comments. When one has studied the bible away from the clergy's teachings it does become clear, There is only ONE HIGH PRIEST residing over the church , no longer a man as teacher over us, the freedom that is not spoken of in the churches that bondage has been given. I John 2:27Praise be to the Lord who have set us free and given us the Holy Spirit to teach us all things. John 14:26 There is no mention of a men needed to teach us. It has been the man who has been indoctrinated by false teachings of the words of God that he make himself a minister over the children of God. Now the one who's is temperate, of one wife, respectable, self, controlled, able to teach, not given to drunkenness, not violent, not quarrelsome, manages his own family well. NOW TELL ME WHO OUT THERE FITS THIS BESIDES CHRIST?" Not one man on this earth has all these qualifications and the verse is clear you must have not some, but all of these, are your not to be in that office. It is pushed aside, and pride and greed and arrogance, and power is the heart of those who seek this job. Notice that I Timothy 3:1 says "IF anyone" There is no command for the office to be fulfilled by man to be over the flock. For the true shepherd is the Lord only, and the true sheep hear HIS VOICE, though they may be controlled by the clergy's interpretation of the bible in the clergy's teaching of God's word. No one seems to pay attention to the words declaring you must fit "ALL" of these qualifications are you are NOT TO BE an OVERSEER. NO ONE PAYS ATTENTION to the repercussions attached to Shepherds in the end and what God has planned for them. It is all in His word. VickieVickie

Vickie · Apr 15, 2009

QUOTE (tomwebster @ Apr 15 2009, 11:07 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=72588
So, evotell, I expect you are donating a lot of your time to a local church, right? Wonder how many weddings you perform per year, or funerals. Could you officiate at a wedding legally? Do you think just anyone can officiate at a wedding without any kind of credentials? How often do you visit people at the local hospital? When you attend your local church do you do the preaching? Do you teach Scripture lessons? Could you do the preaching and teaching every week? And would anyone come to hear you? Do you have any idea of the time commitment a pastor has to a local church?
HI, just wanted to inject that people are able to get married by others with no credentials. You simple go down and acquire a permit to marry at the local county district's office. They let you buy one for a single setting, it is recognized and accepted by the Judicial courts. I know this for a fact. I looked into it for a friend over in England who wanted to come here to marry some dear friends that requested Him. No ministerial credentials were needed only a permit that is required and available from the courts. I could marry anyone if I wanted to and it would be document under the judicial courts system legal and binding. Can you show me one place in the bible that a man in the ministry married any of the flock? They were All GIVEN IN MARRIAGE. Given by their families. Man set up this judicial system over man and brought this governing laws over people. All of this is man instituted and developed by men. It is not so bad, but like everything else, they don't follow the Law of God on divorce, nor any of the Laws according to the Law of God, but to the LAW of MAN. I hope you don't take offense to my stand, but no where in this a man created in human form who meets ALL the qualification of an overseer in the bible, only Christ. Nor do we live under any laws set up on how people are to remarry if they desire to divorce, according to the written Laws in the bible. Religion according to mens understanding has set all these things up and they are not established in the context which the Lord has written them, but of men's understanding of what they assumed or declared in their ignorance. They follow the man made laws set up in the judicial system, claiming God's laws but in fact aren't. My husband holds a doctorate of Law and I am fully exposed to the Laws in many ways, more than the average person. It makes me scratch my head, at man's system claiming to be established under God's Laws. The 10 commandments were established under the concept of the doctrines of the Puritans in their understanding of the Word of God. Which actually according to the words of bible have not been understood by them in truth when they established them on the land. Men who profess knowledge of God, but do not have an intimate, personal relationship with the Lord but rather a closed doctrinal teaching of the words of God make for the large percentage of Laws we are governed by today because of the mind set of these men. I don't expect you to swallow all of this, and it is meant to give another perspective of Life in the words of God that seem never to be spoken too often in public places. Vickie

tomwebster · Apr 15, 2009

QUOTE (Vickie @ Apr 15 2009, 02:56 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=72604
HI, just wanted to inject that people are able to get married by others with no credentials. You simple go down and acquire a permit to marry at the local county district's office. They let you buy one for a single setting, it is recognized and accepted by the Judicial courts. I know this for a fact. I looked into it for a friend over in England who wanted to come here to marry some dear friends that requested Him. No ministerial credentials were needed only a permit that is required and available from the courts. I could marry anyone if I wanted to and it would be document under the judicial courts system legal and binding. Can you show me one place in the bible that a man in the ministry married any of the flock? They were All GIVEN IN MARRIAGE. Given by their families. Man set up this judicial system over man and brought this governing laws over people. All of this is man instituted and developed by men. It is not so bad, but like everything else, they don't follow the Law of God on divorce, nor any of the Laws according to the Law of God, but to the LAW of MAN. I hope you don't take offense to my stand, but no where in this a man created in human form who meets ALL the qualification of an overseer in the bible, only Christ. Nor do we live under any laws set up on how people are to remarry if they desire to divorce, according to the written Laws in the bible. Religion according to mens understanding has set all these things up and they are not established in the context which the Lord has written them, but of men's understanding of what they assumed or declared in their ignorance. They follow the man made laws set up in the judicial system, claiming God's laws but in fact aren't. My husband holds a doctorate of Law and I am fully exposed to the Laws in many ways, more than the average person. It makes me scratch my head, at man's system claiming to be established under God's Laws. The 10 commandments were established under the concept of the doctrines of the Puritans in their understanding of the Word of God. Which actually according to the words of bible have not been understood by them in truth when they established them on the land. Men who profess knowledge of God, but do not have an intimate, personal relationship with the Lord but rather a closed doctrinal teaching of the words of God make for the large percentage of Laws we are governed by today because of the mind set of these men. I don't expect you to swallow all of this, and it is meant to give another perspective of Life in the words of God that seem never to be spoken too often in public places. Vickie
No offense at all. The credentials are not needed in Scripture, but check state law, (at least in every state I have checked). My credentials to perform weddings need to be on file in the county court house for the state I perform weddings in. I do not need to be registered in every county of a state just one county for each state where I perform weddings.. There are bad clergy out there, as there are bad deacons out there. Just don't through all the clergy out with the bath water because many of them provide a valuable service for many churches and their members. There was a time when many Protestant pastors were just a part of the laity without training but the members wanted full time clergy.I am clergy, but I do not serve a particular church. I do not feel my "call" was to serve a particular church. I am also not paid by a church organization.

You have seem me in action so we all know I am not one that meets those qualifications: " no where in this a man created in human form who meets ALL the qualification of an overseer in the bible,"

Vickie · Apr 15, 2009

QUOTE (tomwebster @ Apr 15 2009, 03:35 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=72607
There are bad clergy out there, as there are bad deacons out there. Just don't through all the clergy out with the bath water because many of them provide a valuable service for many churches and their members. There was a time when many Protestant pastors were just a part of the laity without training but the members wanted full time clergy.I am clergy, but I do not serve a particular church. I do not feel my "call" was to serve a particular church. I am also not paid by a church organization.

You have seem me in action so we all know I am not one that meets those qualifications: " no where in this a man created in human form who meets ALL the qualification of an overseer in the bible,"

Your honesty is refreshing for many refuse to see they can't ALL meet the qualifications therefore, neither men nor women should place themselves as teachers. I don't have them, only Christ has them. No one can fill those requirement set by the Lord. Thanks for sharing! Vickie

evotell · Apr 15, 2009

QUOTE (tomwebster @ Apr 15 2009, 02:35 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=72607
No offense at all. The credentials are not needed in Scripture, but check state law, (at least in every state I have checked). My credentials to perform weddings need to be on file in the county court house for the state I perform weddings in. I do not need to be registered in every county of a state just one county for each state where I perform weddings.. There are bad clergy out there, as there are bad deacons out there. Just don't through all the clergy out with the bath water because many of them provide a valuable service for many churches and their members. There was a time when many Protestant pastors were just a part of the laity without training but the members wanted full time clergy.I am clergy, but I do not serve a particular church. I do not feel my "call" was to serve a particular church. I am also not paid by a church organization.

You have seem me in action so we all know I am not one that meets those qualifications: " no where in this a man created in human form who meets ALL the qualification of an overseer in the bible,"

You mention you are a clergy, can you point that out to me in the Bible.My dear brother we are not called to be conformed to our state Rom 12.1 2 We are calle to folow Jesus. Clergy Video>

HammerStone · Apr 15, 2009

QUOTE
I Timothy 3:1This [is] a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.

evotell · Apr 15, 2009

Bishop is a function IT IS NOT a position. NT leadership is not based on the worldly system of the pyramid. That's why the church isn't working and we have spectator congregations.Sir if you are the founder of this forum then you should no better than to suggest that leadership is based on position

HammerStone · Apr 15, 2009

We have "specter congregations" because of a famine for the Word of God.Leadership is based on God, there we will agree. However, it's not a problem with the system, it's a problem with the people. The Word of God is very clear about the position of the bishop, who is a leader. The Greek will bear me out on that.

Vickie · Apr 15, 2009

Yes, a man desires a good work, but he must qualify under those qualification in I Timothy 3:1-5 Not just some, but ALL OF THEM. This is an area clear of description of qualities a man desiring this noble task must have. I personally don't know any who has come to the perfection of having all of these listed qualities and one must not take the leadership over the flock if they, be women or men without all of them. However, our theological systems place many in this office of overseer into the world, and none of them possess all of the qualifications required. That shows their hearts to be more bent on evilness that obedience to Christ's command to fulfill these requirements. Ignoring the command from Christ. A serious matter that will be addressed with their act at Christ's coming. This is an excellent subject to speak about. Thanks for sharing VickieQUOTE (evotell @ Apr 15 2009, 07:40 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=72627
Bishop is a function IT IS NOT a position. NT leadership is not based on the worldly system of the pyramid. That's why the church isn't working and we have spectator congregations.Sir if you are the founder of this forum then you should no better than to suggest that leadership is based on position
Can you elaborate on the Bishop being a function rather than a position? Thanks Vickie

For Life · Apr 15, 2009

I'm not sure I'm understanding what is being discussed. When people go to church they expect the pastor (clergy) to teach them from the bible, correct? Are you suggesting that when we go to church we should all just talk amongst ourselves and not let anyone lead? Maybe we are all brethren and equal in the eyes of the Lord but in the eyes of men we look for someone to lead and to learn from.

HammerStone · Apr 15, 2009

QUOTE
Yes, a man desires a good work, but he must qualify under those qualification in I Timothy 3:1-5 Not just some, but ALL OF THEM. This is an area clear of description of qualities a man desiring this noble task must have. I personally don't know any who has come to the perfection of having all of these listed qualities and one must not take the leadership over the flock if they, be women or men without all of them.
And that's quite a pronounced judgment I think!

mikev · Apr 15, 2009

Wow - some people are pretty hot about this discussion. I don't want to argue, but I would point out that Paul instructed Titus to ordain elders in every city. And, there are qualifications in Titus chapter one for those elders. But my comment is that perhaps we should look at the bigger picture. I believe every Christian has something vital to contribute; we all have abilities and longsuits that we can use to serve God. Romans 12 talks about doing whatever it is that you do. Certainly not everyone can be a teacher, but everyone should certainly not be a spectator.

HammerStone · Apr 15, 2009

Mike, you first post is a good one.

watchman · Apr 15, 2009

QUOTE (Denver @ Apr 15 2009, 10:46 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=72637
Mike, you first post is a good one.

Agreed

evotell · Apr 15, 2009

QUOTE (For Life @ Apr 15 2009, 07:21 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=72633
I'm not sure I'm understanding what is being discussed. When people go to church they expect the pastor (clergy) to teach them from the bible, correct? Are you suggesting that when we go to church we should all just talk amongst ourselves and not let anyone lead? Maybe we are all brethren and equal in the eyes of the Lord but in the eyes of men we look for someone to lead and to learn from.
Thats what the instutional church does however you wont find that model it in the Bible. What you are talking about is the spectator church, The NTC was a every member ministry. Can I encourage you to real pagan Christianity by Frank Viola or my book Truth or Tradition you can download a free copy at freechristianbook.caNOWHERE in the NT do we have the church coming together and being preached at by a Pastor NOT ONCE.QUOTE (Mike Verdicchio @ Apr 15 2009, 08:42 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=72636
Wow - some people are pretty hot about this discussion. I don't want to argue, but I would point out that Paul instructed Titus to ordain elders in every city. And, there are qualifications in Titus chapter one for those elders. But my comment is that perhaps we should look at the bigger picture. I believe every Christian has something vital to contribute; we all have abilities and longsuits that we can use to serve God. Romans 12 talks about doing whatever it is that you do. Certainly not everyone can be a teacher, but everyone should certainly not be a spectator.
NOWHERE in the NT does Paul instruct people to ORDAIN Elders. To understand that pasaage you need to understand the context and Pauls understanding of EldershipQUOTE (Vickie @ Apr 15 2009, 07:04 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=72630
Yes, a man desires a good work, but he must qualify under those qualification in I Timothy 3:1-5 Not just some, but ALL OF THEM. This is an area clear of description of qualities a man desiring this noble task must have. I personally don't know any who has come to the perfection of having all of these listed qualities and one must not take the leadership over the flock if they, be women or men without all of them. However, our theological systems place many in this office of overseer into the world, and none of them possess all of the qualifications required. That shows their hearts to be more bent on evilness that obedience to Christ's command to fulfill these requirements. Ignoring the command from Christ. A serious matter that will be addressed with their act at Christ's coming. This is an excellent subject to speak about. Thanks for sharing Vickie Can you elaborate on the Bishop being a function rather than a position? Thanks Vickie
Hi Vicky Can I encourage you to get yourself a copy of Pagan Christianity by Frank Viola or my book Truth or Tradition. You can download a free copy at freechristianbook.caQUOTE (Denver @ Apr 15 2009, 06:46 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=72628
We have "specter congregations" because of a famine for the Word of God.Leadership is based on God, there we will agree. However, it's not a problem with the system, it's a problem with the people. The Word of God is very clear about the position of the bishop, who is a leader. The Greek will bear me out on that.
The people ARN"T the problem. The problem is an unbiblical system that masquerades itself as the Christian church. People become committed when they have ownership not by making spectators out of Gods people. The NTC KNOWS nothing other then a church that has every member ministry and knows nothing of churches being led by Pastors or ordained paid professionals. NOT ONCE. Can I encourage you to read Pagan Christianity by Frank Viola or my book Truth or Tradition.FREE CHRISTIAN BOOK

tomwebster · Apr 16, 2009

QUOTE (evotell @ Apr 15 2009, 09:51 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=72586
While the “clergy/laity” distinction is embedded and assumed in religious circles, it cannot be found in the New Testament. Because the New Testament knows nothing of “clergy”, the fact that a separate cast of the “ordained” permeates our vocabulary and practice illustrates rather forcefully that we do not yet take the New Testament seriously. The “clergy” practice is a heresy that must be renounced. It strikes at the heart of the priesthood of all believers that Jesus purchased on the cross. It contradicts the shape that Jesus’ kingdom was to take when He said, “You are all brethren.” Since it is a tradition of man, it nullifies the Word of God. The clergy system stands as a monumental obstacle that will need dismantling if we are to see genuine reformation and renewal.
I think I understand what you are saying but their is teaching in Scripture for "apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;" and there is the words of Christ that demonstrates that," for the labourer is worthy of his hire."Eph 4:1 I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called, Eph 4:2 With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love; Eph 4:3 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. Eph 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; Eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. Eph 4:7 But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ. Eph 4:8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. Eph 4:9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? Eph 4:10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.) Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors(G4166) and teachers(G1320) ; Eph 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: Eph 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; Eph 4:15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ: Eph 4:16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love. Luk 10:1 After these things the Lord appointed other seventy also, and sent them two and two before his face into every city and place, whither he himself would come. Luk 10:2 Therefore said he unto them, The harvest truly is great, but the labourers are few: pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he would send forth labourers into his harvest. Luk 10:3 Go your ways: behold, I send you forth as lambs among wolves. Luk 10:4 Carry neither purse, nor scrip, nor shoes: and salute no man by the way. Luk 10:5 And into whatsoever house ye enter, first say, Peace be to this house. Luk 10:6 And if the son of peace be there, your peace shall rest upon it: if not, it shall turn to you again. Luk 10:7 And in the same house remain, eating and drinking such things as they give: for the labourer(G2040) is worthy(G514) of his hire(G3408). Go not from house to house. G2040ἐργάτηςergatēser-gat'-aceFrom G2041; a toiler; figuratively a teacher: - labourer, worker (-men).G514ἄξιοςaxiosax'-ee-osProbably from G71; deserving, comparable or suitable (as if drawing praise): - due reward, meet, [un-] worthy.G3408μισθόςmisthosmis-thos'Apparently a primary word; pay for service (literally or figuratively), good or bad: - hire, reward, wages.andQUOTE
The people ARN"T the problem. The problem is an unbiblical system that masquerades itself as the Christian church. People become committed when they have ownership not by making spectators out of Gods people. ...
I believe part of the problem is with the people, the larger part even. They are the Church, and many of them have become lazy. They do not study the Word of God on their own but rely on the man or woman standing up front to tell them what the Word says. Unfortunately many of those teaching and/or preaching haven't read let along understood the Scriptures. We all are responsible for reading and understanding the Word of God

Lookin4wardtoHeaven · Apr 16, 2009

Are we saying that we shouldn't have Pastors? I wanted to add these scriptures, ..Acts 20:28 (King James Version) 28Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.Ephesians 4:11-12 (King James Version) 11And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; 12For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of ChristSo many are called but not called by God , that is why we need to study the scriptures and pray for wisdom from God.So that he may reveal the truth to us.

evotell · Apr 16, 2009

QUOTE (Lookin'4wardtoHeaven @ Apr 16 2009, 03:13 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=72670
Are we saying that we shouldn't have Pastors? I wanted to add these scriptures, ..Acts 20:28 (King James Version) 28Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.Ephesians 4:11-12 (King James Version) 11And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; 12For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of ChristSo many are called but not called by God , that is why we need to study the scriptures and pray for wisdom from God.So that he may reveal the truth to us.
Eph 4 ministries are given to the church by Jesus himself for equipping the church, you will note that they are plural. NO WHERE in the NT does is validate Pastors leading churches. As you correctly state the church will only be equipped when it is exposed to the whole ministry team. When we have Pastors who do have a valid gift spending 45 + weeks of the year teaching we will have an unbalanced church. The NT teach us that the foundations of the Church are Apostles, prophets and teaches, it doesn't mention Pastors.QUOTE (tomwebster @ Apr 16 2009, 02:34 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=72669
I think I understand what you are saying but their is teaching in Scripture for "apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;" and there is the words of Christ that demonstrates that," for the labourer is worthy of his hire."Eph 4:1 I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called, Eph 4:2 With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love; Eph 4:3 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. Eph 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; Eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. Eph 4:7 But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ. Eph 4:8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. Eph 4:9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? Eph 4:10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.) Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors(G4166) and teachers(G1320) ; Eph 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: Eph 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; Eph 4:15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ: Eph 4:16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love. Luk 10:1 After these things the Lord appointed other seventy also, and sent them two and two before his face into every city and place, whither he himself would come. Luk 10:2 Therefore said he unto them, The harvest truly is great, but the labourers are few: pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he would send forth labourers into his harvest. Luk 10:3 Go your ways: behold, I send you forth as lambs among wolves. Luk 10:4 Carry neither purse, nor scrip, nor shoes: and salute no man by the way. Luk 10:5 And into whatsoever house ye enter, first say, Peace be to this house. Luk 10:6 And if the son of peace be there, your peace shall rest upon it: if not, it shall turn to you again. Luk 10:7 And in the same house remain, eating and drinking such things as they give: for the labourer(G2040) is worthy(G514) of his hire(G3408). Go not from house to house. G2040ἐργάτηςergatēser-gat'-aceFrom G2041; a toiler; figuratively a teacher: - labourer, worker (-men).G514ἄξιοςaxiosax'-ee-osProbably from G71; deserving, comparable or suitable (as if drawing praise): - due reward, meet, [un-] worthy.G3408μισθόςmisthosmis-thos'Apparently a primary word; pay for service (literally or figuratively), good or bad: - hire, reward, wages.andI believe part of the problem is with the people, the larger part even. They are the Church, and many of them have become lazy. They do not study the Word of God on their own but rely on the man or woman standing up front to tell them what the Word says. Unfortunately many of those teaching and/or preaching haven't read let along understood the Scriptures. We all are responsible for reading and understanding the Word of God
and the pulpit with its professional teachers is the No 1 reason WHY. Its called spoon fed christianlty. I have heard 1000s' of times "thats what we pay the Pastor for. Only a revolution will fix it.

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