I'll need you to show me this in the Scriptures. I don't see this anywhere.
"unrepentant saints" . . . what does that mean?
Much love!
Rapture Ready For Partial Rapture?
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"unrepentant saints" . . . what does that mean?
Much love!
Regarding the innumerable multitude before the throne, I actually see these as the raptured church at the beginning of the 70th week. John's use of 'apo' and 'ek' leaves this open to interpretation, I think that fits best.
Out of, or, away from. Look at John's uses of "apo", away from, and "ek", out of. He uses them interchangeably. For instance, where Luke quotes Jesus, If I be lifted up from the earth, that is, crucified, Luke uses the correct Greek work "apo", If I be lifted up away from the earth. But when John quotes the same saying, he writes using "ek", out of, If I be lifted up out of the earth. And there are many examples of this, John witing apo when ek would be correct, and ek when apo would be correct.
To look at the passage "these are they which have come out of great tribulation" as requiring that these were "in" great tribulation and have now come "out of", is not in keeping with John's use of the language, and it becomes subject to interpretation. Did John actually mean "out of"? Or "away from"?
Yes folks, it's Marks saying, "It says that, but that may not be what it means." But this is why I say this. The clear pattern of interchangeable use of apo and ek by John.
Interestingly, this scene immediately follows the sealing of the Israelites, of whom there are 144,000, they are all Jews, and are called "the servants of God". These leads me to ask a question, considering that we are likewise servants of God, where are the rest of us? "And the servants of God were sealed on their foreheads . . . If there are now only 144,000 servants of God, and they are all Jews, where did the rest of us go?
Oh! There we are! An innumerable multitude!
Much love!
Out of, or, away from. Look at John's uses of "apo", away from, and "ek", out of. He uses them interchangeably. For instance, where Luke quotes Jesus, If I be lifted up from the earth, that is, crucified, Luke uses the correct Greek work "apo", If I be lifted up away from the earth. But when John quotes the same saying, he writes using "ek", out of, If I be lifted up out of the earth. And there are many examples of this, John witing apo when ek would be correct, and ek when apo would be correct.
To look at the passage "these are they which have come out of great tribulation" as requiring that these were "in" great tribulation and have now come "out of", is not in keeping with John's use of the language, and it becomes subject to interpretation. Did John actually mean "out of"? Or "away from"?
Yes folks, it's Marks saying, "It says that, but that may not be what it means." But this is why I say this. The clear pattern of interchangeable use of apo and ek by John.
Interestingly, this scene immediately follows the sealing of the Israelites, of whom there are 144,000, they are all Jews, and are called "the servants of God". These leads me to ask a question, considering that we are likewise servants of God, where are the rest of us? "And the servants of God were sealed on their foreheads . . . If there are now only 144,000 servants of God, and they are all Jews, where did the rest of us go?
Oh! There we are! An innumerable multitude!
Much love!
Simple. Because the Bible says so. As to the OP, if he wants to believe in a partial rapture, that is his prerogative. But it is a false doctrine. And since you would prefer to stay on earth, be careful what you wish for.
Let me ask you a question. What exactly distinguishes between the beloved child of God who will be taken away into heaven, and the beloved child of God who will be left behind to endure the 5-month sting of the locust things?
Revelation 9
3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.
4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
6 And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.
Coming soon to the child of God?
Only those 144,000 will be exempt.
Much love?
Revelation 9
3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.
4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
6 And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.
Coming soon to the child of God?
Only those 144,000 will be exempt.
Much love?
Hi marks,
I shall try to do the same with the Lord's help.
Well, if you take that verse by itself, but when you take it in the context of the message to the reading believers for following Him as we ought to..
None that you seem to see there by that verse alone when the beginning of that chapter sets the tone for abiding believers when they read that verse.
Let's try another reference that also has been misapplied by believers...
Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Most apply that to mean that there is no risk to any condemnation to believers, but the flip side of that verse is that there is condemnation to those which are in Christ Jesus but walk after the flesh, and not after the Spirit. We read on were Paul is warning believers as applying to believers & not unbelievers.
Romans 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. 8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
Paul warned believers a couple chapters before in that same Book of Romans.
Romans 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord. 12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. 13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God. 14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. 15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. 16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
So there is condemnation for saved believers living in unrepentant sin which is physical death whereby being left behind to die but resurrected after the great tribulation as vessels unto dishonor in His House is a condemnation in and of itself within the Kingdom of God.
May God bless you and keep you. May He shine His face upon you and give you His peace.
Who goes, and who is left behind??
Is it one of those, Oh, I hope I'm taken! Do we just cross our fingers and hope for the best that we won't face the locust scorpion things? And all the rest?
What determines who is taken and who is left if not faith in Christ? We are saved by faith. We stand in grace by faith. We live by faith. We walk by faith. And now we are divided by works?
Much love!
Is it one of those, Oh, I hope I'm taken! Do we just cross our fingers and hope for the best that we won't face the locust scorpion things? And all the rest?
What determines who is taken and who is left if not faith in Christ? We are saved by faith. We stand in grace by faith. We live by faith. We walk by faith. And now we are divided by works?
Much love!
I don't see how the text allows this. "And we who are alive and remain" is not modified by anything. Are you here, remaining, alive? Then this is you. In Christ, that is.
1 Thessalonians 4
1 Furthermore then we beseech you, brethren, and exhort you by the Lord Jesus, that as ye have received of us how ye ought to walk and to please God, so ye would abound more and more.
2 For ye know what commandments we gave you by the Lord Jesus.
3 For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication:
( . . . )
12 That ye may walk honestly toward them that are without, and that ye may have lack of nothing.
13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
There is admonition to holy life. The will of God, your sanctification.
But again, where exactly in this chapter is the statement that changes the meaning of "we who are alive and remain" to "some of us who are alive and remain"?
There is a series of declarative statements here. I believe we should accept them as stated. It may seem to some that not all Christian are "worthy" or "ready" to be raptured. And again I ask, what exactly makes on different from another?
Do good! Live holy! This is God's will. Now, concerning those who have died . . .
Much love!
1 Thessalonians 4
1 Furthermore then we beseech you, brethren, and exhort you by the Lord Jesus, that as ye have received of us how ye ought to walk and to please God, so ye would abound more and more.
2 For ye know what commandments we gave you by the Lord Jesus.
3 For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication:
( . . . )
12 That ye may walk honestly toward them that are without, and that ye may have lack of nothing.
13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
There is admonition to holy life. The will of God, your sanctification.
But again, where exactly in this chapter is the statement that changes the meaning of "we who are alive and remain" to "some of us who are alive and remain"?
There is a series of declarative statements here. I believe we should accept them as stated. It may seem to some that not all Christian are "worthy" or "ready" to be raptured. And again I ask, what exactly makes on different from another?
Do good! Live holy! This is God's will. Now, concerning those who have died . . .
Much love!
I don't foresee that I will ever come to this view. This is completely antithetical to the Gospel of Grace, or so it seems to me.
Much love!
Yet the consequence for defiling the temple of God is the destruction of the flesh; the physical body ( 1 Corinthians 3:16-17 ), but yet the spirit is still saved ( 1 Corinthians 3:15 )? If the church does excommunication of the unrepentant brother for the effect of giving him over unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh as per 1 Corinthians 5:4-5 then how can that not apply to God excommunicating unrepentant saints left behind t the destruction of their flesh when Satan wages war on the saints?
If God does not judge His House first at the pre great tribulation rapture when the Bridegroom comes for the abiding bride of Christ, then when does Christ judge His House first? After the great tribulation? At the great white throne judgment? I do not believe so.
1 Timothy 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? 18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? 19 Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.
But only applicable to believers in reference to what they built on that foundation which was laid by Jesus Christ; 1 Corinthians 3:10-11
Since any works that deny Him ( Titus 1:16 ) is the same as denying Him ( 2 Timothy 2:12 ) for why He would deny them just for being workers of iniquity ( Matthew 7:21-23 ), yes, it is judgment on the House of God for why there are vessels unto dishonor in His House; that is a judgment on those unrepentant saints that missed out on the firstfruits of the resurrection.
Hopefully, the scripture and the references given will have the Lord helping you to see where I am coming from.
I understand your point of view but consider that this was in connection to the fifth seal of the events happening on the earth where those who do not have the mark to buy and sell will not survive and die. So away from and out of can be the spirits of the saints slain during the great tribulation. That is why it is written to wait for a small season for their resurrection after the great tribulation with the remaining saints going through that great tribulation.
Revelation 6:8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth. 9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: 10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? 11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.
Revelation 7:13-17 prophesied their future resurrected state as happening after the great tribulation that they have gone through.
Because of the falling away from the faith, the times of the Gentiles has come to an end whereby after the rapture, the dispensation of the gospel will go back to the Jews, hence the 144,000 witnesses for the duration of the great tribulation.
In Revelation 18:23-24, we see dead saints when the voice of the bride and the Bridegroom will no longer be heard in her any more because the pre great trib rapture has come and gone. That destruction on left behind saints happened quickly after the rapture as a third of the earth will be burned up and the remainder will die from the plagues for why the merchants of the sea will stand afar off from fallen Babylon and the western hemisphere.
Yet the 3 angels that sets up the hour of temptation that shall try all upon the earth is found in Revelation 14:6-12 where in verse 8 is the 2nd angel heralding the fall of Babylon that will serve as a catalyst for the new world order and the mark of the beasts system. The first angel informs every one of the everlasting gospel; whereas the third angel after that fiery calamity, informs every one of the consequence for taking the mark is the lake of fore, no matter what. So everyone knows the gospel and everyone knows the consequence for taking the mark is the lake of fire to burn forever.
In the middle of that setting up, left behind saints are killed at the fall of Babylon as their works will follow them into the dust; wood, stubble, and hay.
Imagine the rapture, and then the everlasting gospel by that first angel; when that calamity of fire comes, left behind saints are the only one whose works shall follow them into the dust; not new believers.
Revelation 14:13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them. 14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.
It would be when Christ is ruling on the earth where nations come before Him to worship Him, all stemming from the people that came out of the great tribulation.
In Christ's Love,
Enow
You are seriously confused and posting lengthy posts will not help to rectify your confusion. In fact, it appears that you hold to quite a few false doctrines.
There is tribulation and then there is the great tribulation that the Jews will go through when in the time when that son of perdition will be revealed halfway through that time of great tribulation.
Matthew 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: 21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.Verse 21 means no one has gone through the great tribulation yet.
We are going through tribulation now with false prophets and the falling away from the faith, but we are not living in the great tribulation now.
John 16:33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.
You is only applicable if the shoe fits for the iniquity He is warning the consequences for. God went on to address those saints where the shoe does not fit them.
Revelation 2:21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not. 22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds. 23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works. 24 But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden. 25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.
The underlined is my ascribing the iniquity of chasing after seducing spirits to receive after a sign of tongues which does not come with interpretation but assumed for private use; hence a stranger's voice; and hence knowing the depths of Satan as they speak.
You cannot fall away from the faith unless you had faith to begin with; 1 Peter 4:1-2 & 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3 This is about abiding in Him for when the Bridegroom comes and not be caught out to the market seeking to be filled when the prudent know they are always Spirit-filled as a testimony to others that Jesus Christ is the Savior because they are saved. That is how and why the foolish virgins are denied by Him for being workers of iniquity and yet they are His as they will be resurrected after the great tribulation where they will hear His voice literally and be of the one fold & one Shepherd.
John 10:1Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber. 2 But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep. 3 To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out. 4 And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice. 5 And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers... 14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine. 15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep. 16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
May God cause the increase!
Explain why Jesus bother to warn His disciples if there wasn't a legitimate reason why they should take heed and be ready?
What are the consequences in His words for not being ready here below?
Luke 12:40 Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not. 41 Then Peter said unto him, Lord, speakest thou this parable unto us, or even to all? 42 And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season? 43 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. 44 Of a truth I say unto you, that he will make him ruler over all that he hath. 45 But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken; 46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers. 47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. 48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more. 49 I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled?
What did Jesus say was the consequence for not abiding in His words below?
John 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. 6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. 7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.
What did Paul say about the consequence that involves more than just losing your crown in running that race?
1 Corinthians 9:24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain. 25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible. 26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air: 27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.
What is the consequence that the apostle John gave if a church/believer did not repent of her spiritual fornication?
Revelation 2:21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not. 22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds. 23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.
How do you explain away these verses warning believers of the consequences for them to repent & to be ready or else?
Only those with the seal of God in their foreheads will be exempt. The dispensation of the gospel went to those 144,000 Jews turned Christians believers, but there will be other new believers as a result of that everlasting gospel being preached by that first angel after the pre great tribulation rapture event. A lot of left behind saints and new believers will die when a third of the earth gets burned up, leaving new believers elsewhere on the remaining part of the 2/3 rds of the world and not just the 144,000 witnesses for the duration of the great tribulation + those 2 witnesses.
Revelation 14:15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe. 16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped. 17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle. 18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe. 19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God. 20 And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs.
Those with that seal of adoption in their foreheads will not suffer the locust stings.
If a believer depart from faith in giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils are at risk of being left behind unless they repent; 1 Timothy 4:1-2
If a believer resorts to their own power under the works of the law as if they can finish it by the flesh by keeping a commitment to follow Christ or by the promises of the Promise Keeper's program; having a form of godliness but denying the power thereof by living by faith in Jesus Christ as our Good Shepherd are at risk of being left behind ( Galatians 3:1-4 & Galatians 5:1,5 KJV & Philippians 1:6-11 ). If a believer resort to the law of keeping the sabbath day in denying Him as able to make us stand ( Matthew 12:1-7 & Romans 14:4-8 ) and the ten commandments religiously in seeking to obtain righteousness by the deeds of the law are voiding faith in Him and are at risk of being left behind. Romans 10:2-5 & Romans 3:19-28
Works of iniquity denies Him ( Titus 1:16 ) and they will be denied by Him ( 2 Timothy 2:12 ) for why works of iniquity voids faith which is their wedding garments.
Matthew 22:10 So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests. 11 And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment: 12 And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless. 13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness, there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
14 For many are called, but few are chosen.
Okay then. let is flip that and ask the question what happens to a saved believer that does not heed those exhortations to holy living?
1 Corinthians 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. 16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? 17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.
Does it reads that this man's work of just wood, stubble, and hay defiled the temple of God for why he will incur a physical death?
And for it being that day when he will be judged by his works on that foundation, is that not the day when those unrepentant saints that are committing spiritual fornication are cast into the bed of the coming great tribulation as their works are judged with death in Revelation 2:20-23?
Just saying so does not make it so.
How you do you confirm or correct teachings? By the scripture. Why are you not doing this now? I had asked you for explaining the scriptural reference(s) supporting the teaching in this thread if you believe they are testifying to something else. Please do so with His help.
Hi Enow,
That answers quite a bit for me about how you understand these things. I see the Revelation as prophesying with sequential narrative as shown through the time related words.
For instance, the seals are opened before the trumpets sounded, and we know this because after the seventh seal is opened the 7 angels are given their trumpets.
So then the sequence I see is:
The seals are opened.
The earth is thrown into cataclysm.
The church is raptured in it's entirety.
The 144,000 are sealed.
The 70th week begins.
The trumpets are sounded.
The beast sits in the temple.
Image worship is required, those who do are marked and released.
The bowls are poured out.
The beast gathers at Jerusalem and the wilderness.
Jesus returns.
Much love!
Some contentions about the order of things happening.
Jesus seem to imply the abiding saints will be taken before the calamity comes.
Matthew 24:37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, 39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
Everything suggests we would be doing everyday things and then poof; changed in a twinkling of an eye and whisked away before we even got a whiff that the calamity of fire was coming.
Thanks for sharing.
We prophesy in part and know in part, but the point is for believers not to procrastinate in repenting from sins and look to Him for help today to do it, because there are consequences for walking in darkness as in living in unrepentant sinful lifestyles and sinful habits.
Well, right off, God will chasten them to induce right living. The person who is a true child of God will not escape the chastisement of God, that being specifically not punishment, but rather, training, that is, in the way you train a child, 'paideias' being the word used in Hebrews 12.
1 Corinthians 3
12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.
Every man's work shall be made manifest, and the fire shall try every man's work. If what you've built remains, you receive a reward. If what you've built is burnt, then you lose, though you are still saved.
I don't see physical death in this passage, though I think this is describing our judgment after we die. When all our works have been completed. Nothing in here suggests to me that this is talking about the rapture of the church.
This passage is about building the church, how we build it, and that our work will be discovered of what sort it is by fire.
No it is not. At least, again, nothing to me suggests that it is.
Again, in the letter to Thyatira, "I have a few things against you, because you allow her, and I will cast her, and them . . ."
Jesus addresses "you", and speaks of "her" and "them". Jesus does not say He will cast "you" into great tribulation.
when those unrepentant saints that are committing spiritual fornication are cast into the bed of the coming great tribulation
Not, "the coming great tribulation", but "into great tribulation". And not, unrepentant saints, rather,
18 And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass;
19 I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first.
20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.
21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.
22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.
23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.
24 But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden.
Jezebel teaches and seduces Jesus' servants, and Jesus gave her space to repent, but she didn't. So Jesus will throw her and those with her into a bed, except they repent, and He will kill her children with death.
I understand how this can appear to be saying that it is Jesus' servants who are the ones cast into the bed with Jezebel, but just the same, do you see the difference in the pronouns? Jesus addresses you, but speaks of her and them. I don't see a partial rapture here, or unrepentant saints.
And especially considering the clarity of 1 Thessalonians 4, and the doctrine of justification. I personally find the partial rapture view to be in conflict with our justification solus Christus.
Much love!
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