Rapture Ready For Partial Rapture?

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n2thelight

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So you deny Eccl 9:5-6, but in Eccl 12:7 it says the soul returns to God who made it. So there is an anomaly.

Ecclesiastes 9:5 "For the living know that they shall die; but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten."

This really can throw some people, when they think that this is talking about no rewards after death. This whole book is talking about only the flesh body, the man that lives under the sun. When any person dies, they are through with this old flesh body, and it has only one purpose, to be placed in the ground to decay. The body returns to dust. The precious person that you once knew has departed that physical body at death, and went immediately to be with the Father that sent that soul into the embryo at conception. It was the soul and the spirit of the person that you loved, and not the flesh.

When you go to see the final viewing of that person's body, the soul is missing and you can feel the emptiness of spirit that once was there, as you view the body that is in the process of decay. To the Christian, this is a time of rejoicing, for that person's soul is in the presence of the Father, and it is a time for rewards. Though living in the flesh is not considered the same for all people, but it is a requirement of God for each soul.

It was in God plan that all souls must be born of woman, and many times people misquote John 3:3 as to being "born again", which should read, "born from above". You are born from above when your soul enters the embryo at birth. We all have to live in the flesh and be tested in the flesh.

There is one group that was going to try to get around that, and it is discussed in Jude 1-6. Rather then have their soul born through woman, they left their habitation, in the heavenlies against God's will, and took woman to seduce. This is also talked about in Genesis 6:1-8. Therefore, by side stepping God's plan they are already condemned to death of their soul. They never did have the flesh to die, and their death is the death of their soul and spirit.

So flesh is flesh, and once that flesh is dead there is no more use for it, it is left to return to the dust.

Ecclesiastes 9:6 "Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun."

All activity of life that once dwelt within that dead body is also gone. All those things that you liked and disliked within a person, the smile, and soothing spirit of the person just isn't there any more. This then takes reincarnation and puts it to rest for ever. Once one dies, their flesh body goes to dust, and also all parts of that body decays with it. Remember that "under the sun" means flesh man, and you are never going to be back in the flesh again walking under the sun.

The only way you would ever come back to this earth in this flesh age again, is to come back as a messenger, as we saw in Daniel, and it embarrassed him very much when Daniel bowed to him. He was a soul that God had sent on a mission to earth.
 

n2thelight

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Now let's talk about these so called trib martyrs.Okay I'm not saying nobody will die during the trib,however it will not be at the hands of satan,as he couldn't very well go around killing people and at the same time have them believing he is Christ,which the trib is all about.

Those who are killed will die at the hands of those whom think they are helping God

John 16:2 "They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service."

Now look at another

Luke 21:18 "But there shall not an hair of your head perish."

Now let's look at whom he will kill

Revelation 11:7 "And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit [abyss] shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them."

The two witnesses' purpose for being on the earth at this time, was to be a testimony against Satan, the Antichrist. By doing this, they are also a witness to God's elect, of His Word. When this testimony is over, Satan the Antichrist will rise up and kill both of them.

Satan is the "beast out of the bottomless pit". We read this in Revelation 9:1. When Satan kills the two witnesses, he will have taken all the conflict that he can stand by these two witness, and go against God's order to "touch not those who have the seal of God in their foreheads."

Question ,do you know that there are two tribulations
 

n2thelight

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Simple. Because the Bible says so. As to the OP, if he wants to believe in a partial rapture, that is his prerogative. But it is a false doctrine. And since you would prefer to stay on earth, be careful what you wish for.

Where does scripture
Only 144,000 receive that seal, and all are Jews. All others will be subject to that particular torment, not to mention the rest of those things that will happen.

So any partial rapture view requires one of two things, one being the understanding that those of God's beloved children whom He has deemed should be left behind are left behind to endure That.

Or the other option, one must suppose that more than those stated will actually be sealed. Something to hope for I guess!

Much love!

You actually believe the locust are real animals?Wow!!!
 

n2thelight

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II Thessalonians 2:1 "Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,"

Paul is now getting to the purpose for this second letter. Paul reminded them of his first letter to them, of Christ returning and our gathering back to Him. Because of the misunderstanding that could be drawn from the first letter, he writes the following.

It's important in this final generation that we pay attention for this will happen during our life time. The subject again of this letter is; "our gathering back to Christ".

II Thessalonians 2:2 "That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is [the Lord is just] at hand."

Paul doesn't want you to misunderstand what he is about to say. This is why he makes it plain and simple; Paul told them not to confuse what he is saying here with any other teaching, or spirit, or even that first letter from him. This is because there was a confusing part in the first letter where false teachers had crept in and twisted Paul's words. The prime example of this today is the twisting of that first letter by the "rapture theorist", to form the trap that has been set for Christians in this final generation.

Paul is saying, don't let anyone trouble you [confuse you], and tell you that the "day of Christ" is at hand. The "day of Christ [the Lord]" is the day when Jesus Christ will return to earth, and gather His saints to Him. This gathering will happen at the sounding of the seventh trumpet. This is one of those tradition's of men [false doctrines] that can deceive you.

II Thessalonians 2:3 "Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come [it will not be], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;"

Jesus Christ is not gathering anyone to Him, nor is He coming here to earth, except there be a falling away first. The word for "falling away", in the Greek is "apostasy". Jesus told us in His revelation to John, in Revelation 9:11, that "Apollyon" is one of Satan's names, and this name is derived from the word apostasy.

The word "perdition" means "one that perishes". Satan and only Satan has already been condemned to die [to perish] by God. Satan's judgment day has come already back in the first earth age, and he will have no part in the Great White Throne judgment, or any other judgment yet to come. He has already been judged, and sentence by God to death "perdition" [Ezekiel 28 covers this judgment].

What did Paul say again?

Jesus Christ is coming back to this earth, but the saints of Christ will not be gathered to Him until the "son of perdition" [Satan] be revealed first. How will we know who he is when he arrives?

Revelation 17:8 "The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is [shall come]."

This beast "thou [John] sawest", was in the first earth age; and is not on this earth now, as it is written in Revelation 12:7. Satan is in heaven being our accuser, and will be cast out to this earth very shortly by Michael.

"And shall ascend out of the bottomless pit; and go into perdition;" Who is he again? He is Satan the Antichrist. Satan is not a man born of woman, but a "supernatural arch angel". In Ezekiel 28 it is written that Satan [Lucifer] is the most beautiful of all God's created beings.

In Isaiah 14:12; "How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lu'-ci-fer [day star], son of the morning! How art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!" Lucifer then is another name for Satan; he is also called the Dragon, the serpent, and many other names accounting for the roles he plays, and in our generation he will also be called the "Antichrist".

Isaiah 14:13; "For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:"

Satan is saying, I'm going to be God, and be above the sons [stars] of God. The "mount of the congregation" is on mount Zion; and that is "the side of the north" where Jesus Christ's temple will be.

Isaiah 14:14; "I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High." Satan is saying again, he is going to be God.

Isaiah 14:15; "Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell [sheol], to the sides of the pit."

Who is this that is going into the pit? Who is this son of perdition? It is Lucifer, who is Satan, the "son of perdition". The "son of perdition" of II Thessalonians 2:3 is none other than Satan himself, coming to earth to play the role of Jesus Christ. Paul then is saying that the true Christ, Jesus Christ, will not return to earth until this "apostasy" takes place first.

Isaiah 14:16; "They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;"

Following Jesus Christ's return to earth, and when the Antichrist [Satan] is safely in the pit; the world will wonder; how could Satan have shook all the kingdoms? They simply can't believe that they were deceived into believing this man to be God. Are you going to be one of those deceived into believing Satan is the Christ, or do you know the difference?

Paul is saying to the Thessalonians that Jesus Christ will not come, or will their be a gathering of the saints until you see the Antichrist [son of perdition] first. It takes a lot of guts to take the word of a false preacher, over Paul, Jesus, John, Isaiah, and a whole host of other prophets and disciples. This "apostasy" [falling away] is caused by the "son of perdition", and you will see him live and in person, very shortly.

II Thessalonians 2:4 "Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God."

The "Son of perdition" is Satan and Isaiah just told us this very same thing. Remember, the temple of God is on mount Zion, and "on the side of the North". This person sitting there is sitting in God's seat, pretending to be God: "Showing himself that he is God."

Do you know what Jesus said about this very thing. Jesus called it in Matthew 24:15, the very same thing that Daniel called it in Daniel 9:27; "the Abomination of desolation". A more correct translation in the "James Moffatt translation Bible" is called "The abomination by the desolator".

"Satan claiming to be God" is the abomination, and "he" [Satan] is the desolator, for the entire world will believe him; except for God's elect, and all those who have the seal of God in their minds [foreheads]. The sealed of God have their gospel armor on, and they are ready to face Satan and his system in the spiritual warfare.
 

n2thelight

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II Thessalonians 2:5 "Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?"

Paul is again reminding them.

II Thessalonians 2:6 "And now ye know what withholdeth [that which restraineth to the end] that he might be revealed in his time [own season]."

"And now", is Paul's reminder to them that they did talk about this when he was with them in person. Who then is this one that would "be revealed in his time?"

The subject here is "the son of perdition", Satan, the Antichrist, or what ever name you desire to use for him. He is Satan, and Satan will commit the "abomination of desolation" of Daniel 9:27; and the church will be here to see it, because the "gathering", or Christ's return follows this.

II Thessalonians 2:7 "For the mystery of iniquity [lawlessness] doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way."

There is no mystery around when this will take place, for we will know his methods of operation [withholdeth], and the signs, the seasons, and the times of Satan's arrival to earth. If you are in the Word of God and not following these "one verse preachers", you will know when to expect the Antichrist. You will also know within hours of when to expect our Lord Jesus Christ's return. Satan's reign on earth is not seven years because God reduced that time to five months for the "elect's" sake, as Jesus told us in Matthew 24:22. Jesus also revealed that the time is shortened to five months, to John in Revelation 9:5, and 10.

The "mystery of lawlessness" is the mystery of iniquity. "He who now letteth will let"; in the Greek should be translated; "He who holds fast [ketcho] will stand." The ellipsis, or "omission from an expression of a word clearly implied"; "There is one who hold's fast", instead of by repeating the verb, "will let". However, "katecho" is a transitive verb, and an object must be supplied also. So if the subject in verse six is Satan, then the object must be his position in the heavenlies [see Ephesians 6:12], from which he will be ejected from heaven by Michael [Revelation 12:7-9].

"Out of the way", in the Greek is "out of ek", or "the midst". It is the same expression used in Acts 17:33, and I Corinthians 5:2.

Many "rapture theorists" claim this one who "letteth" is the Holy Spirit, and they claim that when He is "taken away", then the Antichrist will come. By reversing the role of the characters in the verses here, and attributing what is Satan's to the Holy Spirit, you have a whole new doctrine called the "Any moment doctrine". This false doctrine is better known as the "rapture theory". It is dangerous to play around with a foreign language; and when the flock relies upon their shepherd for the truth, and the shepherd is assumed to be correct; in ignorance it is accepted just because he said it.

It is Michael who "holds fast" on to Lucifer [the Antichrist], and Michael will continue to keep Lucifer held until the appointed time, spoken of above. That time is appointed by God. Then at the appointed time God will give Satan the keys [authority] to release his fallen angels and they will be cast to the earth [see Revelation 9:1-10]. Let's take a look at the one [Michael] who holds on to Satan now.

Revelation 12:7; "And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels," Michael [that is who the "he" is in II Thessalonians 2:7 and his [Michael's] angels fought against the dragon [another name for Satan] and his [Satan's] fallen angels.

Revelation 12:8; "And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven." This war took place in heaven, and that is where Satan and his angels are now; though Satan's spirit, and demonic spirits are all over the earth today. Now we will see what Michael does with Satan, in fulfilling II Thessalonians 2:7.

Revelation 12:9; "And the great dragon [Satan] was cast out [that is the transitive verb of verse seven], that old serpent [this is the role Satan played in the Garden of Eden], called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world [except for God's elect]: he was cast out onto the earth, and his angels were cast out with him."

This is when Satan will physically appear on earth as a man with his angels. This is the time of the Antichrist's coming, and we must know when this time is by when these events takes place, for Satan comes at the sixth trumpet.

Then the verse picks up where Satan is standing in the holy place. Satan's object is to deceive all the world, and have the world take his markings in their minds. God's Word thus says that Satan will come to earth and stand in that Holy place, before Christ will come and gather anyone back to Himself.

II Thessalonians 2:8 "And then shall that Wicked be revealed, Whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit [breath] of his mouth, and shall destroy [bring to naught] with the brightness [manifestation] of his coming:"

"The wicked" is better translated, "wicked one": What comes out of the Lord's mouth? It is the Truth. That is also the Word that God put in the mouth of Paul in this writing. Satan shall then be destroyed after being cast out, and also after standing in the holy place. After this is the time of Jesus Christ coming and gathering of His saints. There is no "anytime doctrine" here. It is in the course of certain events, and God lets us know clearly the order of these events, and exactly what to expect. In Matthew 24:15 Jesus is saying exactly what Paul is saying, Satan will come first and reign before the gathering of the saints.

Then Christ will destroy Satan.

II Thessalonians 2:9 "Even him, whose coming is after the working of Sa'-tan with all power and signs and lying wonders,"

"Even him" also includes Satan's religious beast system. Satan's religious system will be present with Satan. The religious beast is discussed in Revelation 13, and this the religious role that gives support and authority to Satan. If you believe in the Rapture theory, you will take part in that role. Many Christians will assume Satan to be Christ when they visible witness the supernatural powers he possess, and the deceptions that will take place, all except God's elect.

II Thessalonians 2:10 "And with all deceivableness [deceit] of unrighteousness in [for] them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth,"

God is writing this letter to us personally, and we are responsible for understanding it. We are accountable to God to give answer for our actions. It is you and I, individually, that will stand before God and give our personal answer for the personal handling of His Word. There will be no preacher, friend or family member with you on that judgment day, for they will all be explaining and accounting for their own words and actions. If your pastor is one of the false shepherds, and led many saints astray, his ignorance won't help him or you.

This is something we must think about, our souls are at stake here.
 

n2thelight

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II Thessalonians 2:11 "And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion [send them a working of error], that they should a lie;"

If you want to believe a lie, God will allow it; in fact he will help you into the system of deceptions Satan will bring on the earth. Do you really think God will come here and personally show you, and talk to you when you refuse to believe His Word, when He gave it in such detail through the prophets and His Son. If you desire to believe that your going to fly out of here, and refuse His word, He will so block your mind that you will not be capable of understanding truth. God will send the "strong delusion" over your mind. The strong delusion is an act of love given by God for your protection.

II Thessalonians 2:12 "That they all might be damned [judged] who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness."

This is the reason for the "strong delusion" of verse eleven; "That they might be damned", it would be more accurately translated "condemned". Condemned for not believing the truth in God's Word when given to them. They had the warning, but still followed Satan, and partook in his religious system.

"Pleasure in unrighteousness" is not referring to drunken brawls, or whore houses, but it is a continuation of the subject here at hand. That subject is "worshipping the Antichrist [Satan] as the true Christ." You will take pleasure in that damnable sin; that unrighteous act will be done in your total ignorance. It's easy to say "I'm saved", but saved from what? The subject here has changed from that of verse eight, to "being damned through deception." The traditions of men will change this subject, from "being deceived by Satan, and enjoying it" to petty activities of the day.

II Thessalonians 2:13 "But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:"

Paul does not think the Thessalonians will fall for this deceiving lie of the "any moment doctrine", after they have the truth. They were chosen from before the foundations of this earth age [the elect], and because they are, they will see, and believe the truth of God's holy Word. Romans 8 identifies these elect.

II Thessalonians 2:14 "Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ."

The "obtaining" is the persevering after the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

II Thessalonians 2:15 "Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle."

These traditions are what is presented in God's Word, or this letter Paul is writing.

II Thessalonians 2:16 "Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God, even our Father, which hath loved us, and hath given us everlasting consolation and good hope through grace,"

Our only hope is through God's grace extended to us through the blood of our Lord Jesus Christ shed on the cross at Calvary.

II Thessalonians 2:17 "Comfort your hearts, and stablish you in every good word and work"

2thess2
 

stunnedbygrace

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Do note that the latter part of your statement is something I did not allude to in the OP. What you had shared next is based on assuming the latter part of your statement was true, but I do not consider those left behind as going through some more testing when they are disqualified from being a part of the firstfruits of the resurrection that are received as vessels unto honor in His House in Heaven to attend the Marriage Supper of the Lamb.

@Enow
But the ones under the altar are they who have come out of the great tribulation. They were not in the 1st resurrection (the holy.) Yet it says their robes are white and they have washed their robes in the blood of the Lamb. That does not sound like a vessel of dishonor. They were faithful. They did not take the mark. They suffered and were faithful.

Why were they left behind if not to be tested further?

Is it just an assumption that some will be martyred during the tribulation if it says " these are they who came out of the tribulation?" I think it's more of a guess based on that verse rather than an assumption.
 
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stunnedbygrace

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Admittedly, I may have some assumptions that prevent me from putting it all together. In fact, I'm pretty sure I do have some wrong assumptions. I just don't think one of them is that some will be further purified further in the tribulation.
 

Enow

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Nothing in this long-winded post has any proof of a 'rapture' to heaven for anyone at any time.

Well, at least you are replying.

Noah was instructed to build an ark, to save his family and the animals.

And when it came time to enter the ark when God commanded, they did and the flood took them all away.

Lot was told to gat out of Sodom.

Didn't the angels had to wake them and warned them to get them out?

Genesis 19:15And when the morning arose, then the angels hastened Lot, saying, Arise, take thy wife, and thy two daughters, which are here; lest thou be consumed in the iniquity of the city.

So when Christ descend with a shout, saints not being willing to go because of the snares of this life, will be left behind. Luke 21:33-36 I doubt any saint at the end of the great tribulation will be tempted with such a snare.

In Luke 17:34, it is correctly understood that the ones taken are the wicked people.

Noah & family escaped the flood & Lot & his daughters escaped the destruction of their home, but somehow only the bad guys are taken leaving the saints behind for not being ready to face the destruction of fire coming on the earth which Luke 12:40-49 says it is with the unbelievers?

Then Luke 17:34 cannot be understood rightly so let us examine Luke 17:37 in context.

Luke 17:34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left. 35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 37 And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.

Some modern versions replaced eagles with vultures, but let us examine the Greek from which these words are from at this link where the Greek words in blue are mirroring the words in English in the KJV. If you scroll down in the left column to Luke and then click on the blue # 17, it should pull up that chapter for you to read. Then scroll down by the scroll on the right to the last verse 37.

HTML Bible Index - King James Version - Strongs Concordance - Frames Version

Click on the last blue word in Greek mirroring that last verse and you will find this Greek word "aetos" for eagle.

"from the same as ahr - aer 109; an eagle (from its wind-like flight):--eagle."

Click on the third word from the last line mirroring that verse 37 for the Greek word sunacqhsontai and you will find this definition from "sunago".

"from sun - sun 4862 and agw - ago 71; to lead together, i.e. collect or convene; specially, to entertain (hospitably):--+ accompany, assemble (selves, together), bestow, come together, gather (selves together, up, together), lead into, resort, take in."

I am not sure why verse 37 does not read better in any version with these meanings clearly, but the bad guys are not the ones being received here.

Now: we are told in many scriptures that the Lord will protect His own during His terrible Day of fiery wrath. Isaiah 43:2 +
We must - Call upon the Name of the Lord and you will be saved. Joel 2:32, Acts 2:21

It is true, but there is another form of protection you are overlooking and that is escaping the destruction by being ready and willing to go. That is the examples from the references given for why Lot's wife was pointed out because she looked back to her home and the life she loved in that city.
 

Renniks

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The earliest church fathers did not believe in a secret rapture. It all happens at once people. We don't get whisked away to watch it on a celestial television.
 

stunnedbygrace

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I think an actual assumption is that there is only heaven and hell. In the end, there is the lake of fire but there is also wandering in the outer darkness. And then there are the holy and the righteous. So there are 4 outcomes, three of which are eternal. Going at it with the assumption that there are only two will stop understanding further.
 

Enow

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@Enow
But the ones under the altar are they who have come out of the great tribulation. They were not in the 1st resurrection (the holy.) Yet it says their robes are white and they have washed their robes in the blood of the Lamb. That does not sound like a vessel of dishonor. They were faithful. They did not take the mark. They suffered and were faithful.

Those are the souls of those slain that are under the altar as they had to be given robes when they are not resurrected yet.

Why were they left behind if not to be tested further?

To be chastened by the Father ( Hebrews 12:3-11 ) for a small season for not being ready as they will receive stripes per the knowledge for not being ready. Luke 12:40-49

Is it just an assumption that some will be martyred during the tribulation if it says " these are they who came out of the tribulation?" I think it's more of a guess based on that verse rather than an assumption.

Well, those souls coming out of the great tribulation will be resurrected as vessels unto dishonor in His House because they will not be like the firstfruits that are like the angels that never die and never to marry and live in the Father's mansion; aka the City of God that will come down to earth. Only the power of the second death ( the lake of fire ) will not be over those vessels unto dishonor as they will serve the King of kings from all over the world in representing the city of God on earth. They will need to eat from the tree of life in the City of God as it is for the healing of the nations.

So the designation of the vessels unto dishonor is to cite a different kind of an inheritance than the vessels unto honor will have in the kingdom of Heaven
 

Enow

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Admittedly, I may have some assumptions that prevent me from putting it all together. In fact, I'm pretty sure I do have some wrong assumptions. I just don't think one of them is that some will be further purified further in the tribulation.

To clarify, we are in the tribulation now when keeping the faith is the good fight as well as leaning on Him for help in laying aside every weight & sin as well as being willing to go when the Bridegroom comes.

The great tribulation starts after the calamity of fire comes on the third of the earth. When the peace treaty with Israel gives them permission to build that Third Temple so that when the call goes out to build it, that is when the great tribulation starts since halfway from that order, is when the son of perdition will reveal himself.

As it is, the great tribulation is the hour of temptation that shall try all on the earth to receive the mark of the beast so they can buy and sell to survive in the coming new world order. So in that sense, there is a testing, but Jesus is faithful in keeping the souls of His saints left behind that will suffer that test.

But as for anything pertaining to being a vessels unto honor in His House, that door is shut for why the voice of the Bridegroom and the bride will no longer be heard in her any more as per Revelation 18:23-24 .
 

Enow

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The earliest church fathers did not believe in a secret rapture. It all happens at once people. We don't get whisked away to watch it on a celestial television.

Scripture has been provided for why Jesus is warning His disciples or else be left behind. Luke 12:40-49

That is why the cares of this life can be a snare to believers in a time when they still can buy and sell without needing the mark of the beast to do it Luke 21:33-36 & Luke 14:15-24;
 

marks

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I think an actual assumption is that there is only heaven and hell. In the end, there is the lake of fire but there is also wandering in the outer darkness. And then there are the holy and the righteous. So there are 4 outcomes, three of which are eternal. Going at it with the assumption that there are only two will stop understanding further.
I don't see these 4 outcomes supported in Scripture. Call it assumptions or whatever.

I quess you suppose that the lake of fire and outer darkness are two different things in different places?

Are you one who believes God will consign His spirit children to outer darkness and weeping and gnashing of teeth?

Much love!
 

stunnedbygrace

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I don't see these 4 outcomes supported in Scripture. Call it assumptions or whatever.

I see it everywhere in scripture, from the 4 rivers that flow out from Eden, to the 4 sons of Noah who repopulate the earth, and clear through to the filthy, unjust, righteous and holy spoken of in revelation. I guess you can't help not seeing it any more than I can help seeing it.

I thank God often for sending the man who helped me to see and begin to understand it.
 
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stunnedbygrace

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I quess you suppose that the lake of fire and outer darkness are two different things in different places?

Yes. I believe this is how Jesus could tell some people that it would go worse for them on that day than it would for Sodom.
 

stunnedbygrace

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Are you one who believes God will consign His spirit children to outer darkness and weeping and gnashing of teeth?

I'm not completely settled on this matter. I definitely have some turmoil over the verse that says, now I will destroy the righteous along with the wicked.
 
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