Is BAPTISM MANDATORY for SALVATION...

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Bobby Jo

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I guess i should have said "how do we know it was SIN that put the thief on the cross. If you and or your family is starving...

"Men do not despise a thief, if he steal to satisfy his soul when he is hungry;"
Proverbs 6:30

The Jews had a practice where anyone could walk through a field and pick kernels of grain and eat them, exactly as Jesus and his disciples were accused of doing ON THE SABBATH. Additionally, as given in Ruth's account, she could harvest the "second gleaning".

Did you think that "thieves" ONLY stole to EAT? :)
Bobby Jo
 
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Ernest T. Bass

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The ones who were baptized by John confessed their sins and repented of them. Obviously those two thieves (malefactors would mean more than mere robbers) did not repent, therefore they were crucified. But after being crucified, one on them repented, and believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, and was saved, and guaranteed Heaven, and an entrance into the Kingdom of God.

Water baptism saves no one. However, it is essential for each one who is saved. The thief died and did not need to be baptized. But on the day of Pentecost about 3,000 were baptized AFTER they were saved.

--The "thief argument" is based on an assumption the thief had never been baptized. No verse definitively state if he had been baptized or not, so the "thief argument" has no bases. The thief is not an example of NT salvation (Hebrews 9:16-17) meaning he was not accountable to Acts 2:38; Romans 10:9-10; Romans 6:3-5 as we today are who are under the NT.

--You say baptism is "essential". If it therefore is essential then it is necessary to being saved. How can something be 'essential' but at the same time 'not necessary'?

--no such thing in the NT of a person first saved, then baptized. Baptism is put BEFORE salvation.

--many verses point out that baptism does in fact save when not one verse says belief only saves.
 

Ernest T. Bass

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No it takes faith,
Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him


NT faith INCLUDES repentance, confess and baptism. If faith does not include repentance, confession and baptism then it is dead, worthless.
 
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Ernest T. Bass

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Don't ja just LOVE people who make up excuses out of their own imagination for circumstances which contradict their "theology"?

THE THIEF WAS NEVER BAPTIZED. But if he had been "baptized" he obviously wouldn't have been hanging on a cross next to Jesus, because OBVIOUSLY baptism prevents us from sinning, and even if we do sin, we can say WE WERE BAPTIZED, and we all know that BAPTISM is more important than OBEDIENCE.

-- The difference between RELIGION and RELATION --
Bobby Jo

Baptism does not prevent one from sinning at all. Those who have been baptized still do sin. Baptism is the BEGINNING point of Christ's blood washing away all sins. Once baptized, the newly baptized person then must CONTINUE to walk in the light (1 John 1:7) so that the blood of Christ CONTINUES to wash away all sins. This continual washing away of all sins is why the Christian is "without spot and blameless" 2 Peter 3:14.

Even though the thief was repentant and Christ forgave him he still had the face the consequence of his sin by dying on his cross. Forgiveness does not take away consequences that sin brings.
 
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Seasoned by Grace

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Why is the topic so important about the THIEF on the cross being BAPTIZED
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, when it is clear in scripture why each of US should be BAPTIZED, and there are TONS of examples IN the BOOK OF ACTS of BAPTISMS that are a lot clearer in validating Baptism repeatedly, than trying to decipher the topic of the thief on the cross where there is no definitive or absolute answer.
In Romans 6: 1-11 the topic of BAPTISM is covered HEAVILY in how it affects our relationship with Christ and being in Christ.

Bless you all as you continue your search
My name is OLIGOS
 
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Enoch111

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--The "thief argument" is based on an assumption the thief had never been baptized. No verse definitively state if he had been baptized or not, so the "thief argument" has no bases.
Actually the basis for concluding that the thief was not baptized is very strong. John's baptism took place about 3 1/2 years before the crucifixion. All of Jerusalem and Judea went to hear John, and many repented and were baptized.

Since those two criminals continued with their crimes during that time (and were eventually apprehended and crucified) it is evidence that neither of them repented and was baptized by John. So the repentant thief on the cross was saved PURELY by grace through faith. Which totally refutes your false doctrine.
 
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Bobby Jo

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WELL, I GUESS I GOT TOLD....:)

More importantly, can we move onto the GREATER things, -- like being IN THE TRIBULATION?!?

What will it take for christians to wake up, realize where we are in History, and prepare for the days when we can't buy or sell???


But then again, what would a "Great Falling Away" be without participants,
Bobby Jo
 

mjrhealth

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NT faith INCLUDES repentance, confess and baptism. If faith does not include repentance, confession and baptism then it is dead, worthless.
No its not. Faith says, God I trust you, anything else is man trying to prove him 'self' to God.
 

Bobby Jo

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Ernest T. Bass said:
NT faith INCLUDES repentance, confess and baptism. If faith does not include repentance, confession and baptism then it is dead, worthless.

No its not. Faith says, God I trust you, anything else is man trying to prove him 'self' to God.

Seems the "milk" is too much for some.


Parsing "faith", which without "WORKS" is DEAD. Welcome to modern christianity. -- Good thing there's a Great Falling Away to account for the future participation ...
Bobby Jo
 

mjrhealth

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Seems the "milk" is too much for some.


Parsing "faith", which without "WORKS" is DEAD. Welcome to modern christianity. -- Good thing there's a Great Falling Away to account for the future participation ...
Bobby Jo
Yes we noticed, the only works Christ ever found worthy was the works of the father, teh only work God considers worthy of us is Faith. It is only faith that pleases God,
 

Ernest T. Bass

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Actually the basis for concluding that the thief was not baptized is very strong. John's baptism took place about 3 1/2 years before the crucifixion. All of Jerusalem and Judea went to hear John, and many repented and were baptized.

Since those two criminals continued with their crimes during that time (and were eventually apprehended and crucified) it is evidence that neither of them repented and was baptized by John. So the repentant thief on the cross was saved PURELY by grace through faith. Which totally refutes your false doctrine.

THere is every possibility that the thief had been baptized by John, was a disciple but later fell away into a life of crime until meeting up with Christ on His cross.

From the discourse that took place between Christ and the thief in Luke 23:40-43:
--the thief believed in God, knew God existed and God was to be feared
--admitted his guilt being repentant
--knew Christ was an innocent man
--knew that Jesus death on the cross would not be the end of Christ
--knew Christ had a kingdom and saw the need to be in that kingdom

The thief had a better knowledge of Christ than some of Christ's own disciples. Maybe he had this knowledge because he was once a disciple himself.

--There remains no definitive proof the thief had or had not been baptized.
--He is not an example of NT gospel salvation

The thief argument continues to fail on many points.
 
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Seasoned by Grace

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Ernest T. Bass :)
Your biblical insights and understanding and clear concise explainations through scripture are what
everyone here needs to hear.

I'm grateful your here to bring light to the truth.

God bless you and thank you.
My name is OLIGOS
 

mjrhealth

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Faith means doing what God has said, those that enter the kingdom are the ones that DOETH the will of the Father, (Matthew 7:21) those that belong to Christ are the ones that do what Christ says to do (Luke 6:46)
Yep believe, I trust you God not myself.