Rapture Ready For Partial Rapture?

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Enow

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Zechariah doesn't specifically say earthquake in 14:4 but it does sound like it would be an earthquake. Some of the prophets didn't specifically say earthquake in many places although what they were describing and its effects would be our equivalent of an earthquake. Just an observation.

When Jesus feet touch down on the Mount of Olives, it is split in two going to the east and to the west in creating a valley, so yeah< I agree with you that an earthquake can be used by Him to create that even though His feet did it for where the "earthquake" came from or so I believe.

Zechariah 14:4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
 

Enow

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Satan is thrown down to the earth around the time of the end of this present age/start of the Millennium Age. Christ does not return until the end of the Millennium Age, a 1,000 plus years after Satan in imprisoned in the Bottomless Pit. Not in the middle of the final 3.5 years before Christ's rule.

Is this your belief or were you referring to this as a general over view of what you perceive as Keraz's belief?
 

Enow

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In the passage of the word which speaks of Christ catching up (Latin rapture or raptures) those in christ,

He says all those in christ in the grave will be risen. And those alive will follow.

This can not be partial.

Your either born of God or you are not..

Does God command the church to excommunicate an unrepentant brother living in sin or not in 1 Corinthians 5:1-13 ?

If 1 Corinthians 5:4-5 explains the purpose which would mirror what God will do for saved believer not abiding in Him when the Bridegroom comes, then you can understand why He is telling believers to be ready or else in Luke 12:40-49, because saved believer living in unrepentant iniquity are not going to have a seat at the table to eat with those saved believers abiding in Him in Heaven if they are not allowed to do that in church on earth.
 

Enow

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Sorry; n2the light and Enow, it is pointless me trying to address all your posts.
We really must try to keep our posts shorter and discuss one issue at a time.

Do you believe there is a reception to a supper for why He is calling us to be ready?

Luke 14:15-24 speaks of the King's Supper for which many used the excuses for the cares of this life for not being willing to attend which is the snare spoken of in Luke 21:33-36.

Again, the call to be ready is to be found worthy to attend the Supper in Matthew 22:1-14 where a believers can be seen without his wedding garment since works that deny Him can void faith in Him to be found naked by Him to be cast out.

Luke 13:24-30 talks about sitting down with O.T. saints in Heaven as it also speaks of workers of iniquity for why the Lord would deny them as any iniquity that denies Him ( Titus 1:16 ) is the same as verbally denying Him for why He is denying them ( 2 Timothy 2:12 ) to attend the King's Supper.

So I am asking you how you apply those verses to mean if you do not believe there is a Supper to be had in Heaven?

If Satan is right now, the accuser of our brethren and when he gets kicked out; wouldn't it stand to reason is because he would not spoil the celebration in Heaven for why he knows he has a short times on earth for why he is waging war on the left behind saints and any new believers as a result?
 

Jay Ross

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Is this your belief or were you referring to this as a general over view of what you perceive as Keraz's belief?

There are many misconstrued views on the timeline of the ET's and the events that will occur during this period.

What you quoted from my post above is a statement of the overview of the End Times. In our near future we will see the judgement of the nations at the place know as Armageddon as described in Rev 16:12-16 and which is the sixth bowl judgement. The bowl judgments are given in an order that is look at the final bowl judgment, Bowl one, that occurs very near to the end of the Age of the Ages and the rest of the bowl judgments are looked at from that point in time as John traces his steps backwards in time.

I have consistently expressed doubts over the manner of keraz's interpretation of scripture in that he only applies the English translation perspective of the prophecies that he uses to support his POV which he interprets as a literal unfolding of the described events whereas, the original language suggests that we should consider the presented prophecies from a metaphorical understanding. Keraz has previously stated that he lived for a number of years in the Land of Canaan and has come to accept the "Jewish" interpretation and understanding of the "Promised Land" as having an infinite application with respect to their possession of the described land, where as the Hebrew word translated as "forever" describes a finite period of time which has a starting and finishing point.

When God speaks about His gathering of the descendants of Abraham to Himself, the prophecies speak about the people who are gathered to Him, that He will teach the Israelites about His Religious understanding which is centered around the Christ, i.e. the servant Israel, and that He will plant them in fertile soil from which they will draw nourishment from so that they produce 30, 60 or a 100 times heads of wheat from the seed that they receive when they are redeemed. This is in line with the parable of the Sower.

For Abraham's descendants to be a blessing to all of the nations of the earth, they cannot be collected and placed in a very small part of the world, i.e. the Land of Canaan, but they must be remain scattered throughout the whole earth so that their saltiness will season all the people of the earth. Israel can only enter into the renewed Kingdom of Priests, a Holy Nation and God's Possession Among the Nations Covenant of Jer 31:31ff if they remain scattered throughout the whole earth.

Keraz's understanding is that the "True" Descendants of Abraham, will be whisked away to Promised Land of Israel where they will be kept safe until the end of the Age of the Ages.

His understanding has the same purpose of "saving" the righteous during the time of Tribulation at this present time, just like the Pre-Tribbers' views, and that, just like the Pre-tribbers views, the righteous will then "rule" the earth with Christ during His 1,000 year reign.

His condemnation of the Pre-tribbers understanding is laughable because he also holds the same perspective of being rescued from the "tribulation" before returning in "glory" so to speak to "rule."

In reality, I am calling Keraz and the Pre-tribbers out for their respective flawed misunderstanding of the scriptures.

Shalom
 

Keraz

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No, you did not offer up the scriptures as they were written as a correction of my beliefs.
This post is an lengthy rant that totally fails to address the scriptures I presented in #198. They are plainly stated prophesies of what the Lord has planned for His faithful people.

Perhaps you could tell us what you believe will happen before Jesus Returns. Provide scriptural support, or don't bother us with theories and unbiblical teachings.

In your post 205, you have an very confused and wrong idea about me.
I do not espouse Jewish ideas or their religion. My guide is the Bible only.
I proclaim what the Prophets tell us, believe them!
 
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Keraz

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So I am asking you how you apply those verses to mean if you do not believe there is a Supper to be had in Heaven?
The scriptures simply do not say where the Supper will be held. Saying it is in heaven, is pure guesswork.
I believe it will be on earth, as that is where Jesus will be.
If Satan is right now, the accuser of our brethren and when he gets kicked out; wouldn't it stand to reason is because he would not spoil the celebration in Heaven for why he knows he has a short times on earth for why he is waging war on the left behind saints and any new believers as a result?
Satan will be chained up at Jesus' Return. Revelation 20:2
 

Eternally Grateful

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Does God command the church to excommunicate an unrepentant brother living in sin or not in 1 Corinthians 5:1-13 ?

If 1 Corinthians 5:4-5 explains the purpose which would mirror what God will do for saved believer not abiding in Him when the Bridegroom comes, then you can understand why He is telling believers to be ready or else in Luke 12:40-49, because saved believer living in unrepentant iniquity are not going to have a seat at the table to eat with those saved believers abiding in Him in Heaven if they are not allowed to do that in church on earth.
This has no bearing on what God said who would be raptured

if your saved your saved, period. There is no half saved or partially saved people
 

Eternally Grateful

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There are many misconstrued views on the timeline of the ET's and the events that will occur during this period.

What you quoted from my post above is a statement of the overview of the End Times. In our near future we will see the judgement of the nations at the place know as Armageddon as described in Rev 16:12-16 and which is the sixth bowl judgement. The bowl judgments are given in an order that is look at the final bowl judgment, Bowl one, that occurs very near to the end of the Age of the Ages and the rest of the bowl judgments are looked at from that point in time as John traces his steps backwards in time.

I have consistently expressed doubts over the manner of keraz's interpretation of scripture in that he only applies the English translation perspective of the prophecies that he uses to support his POV which he interprets as a literal unfolding of the described events whereas, the original language suggests that we should consider the presented prophecies from a metaphorical understanding. Keraz has previously stated that he lived for a number of years in the Land of Canaan and has come to accept the "Jewish" interpretation and understanding of the "Promised Land" as having an infinite application with respect to their possession of the described land, where as the Hebrew word translated as "forever" describes a finite period of time which has a starting and finishing point.

When God speaks about His gathering of the descendants of Abraham to Himself, the prophecies speak about the people who are gathered to Him, that He will teach the Israelites about His Religious understanding which is centered around the Christ, i.e. the servant Israel, and that He will plant them in fertile soil from which they will draw nourishment from so that they produce 30, 60 or a 100 times heads of wheat from the seed that they receive when they are redeemed. This is in line with the parable of the Sower.

For Abraham's descendants to be a blessing to all of the nations of the earth, they cannot be collected and placed in a very small part of the world, i.e. the Land of Canaan, but they must be remain scattered throughout the whole earth so that their saltiness will season all the people of the earth. Israel can only enter into the renewed Kingdom of Priests, a Holy Nation and God's Possession Among the Nations Covenant of Jer 31:31ff if they remain scattered throughout the whole earth.

Keraz's understanding is that the "True" Descendants of Abraham, will be whisked away to Promised Land of Israel where they will be kept safe until the end of the Age of the Ages.

His understanding has the same purpose of "saving" the righteous during the time of Tribulation at this present time, just like the Pre-Tribbers' views, and that, just like the Pre-tribbers views, the righteous will then "rule" the earth with Christ during His 1,000 year reign.

His condemnation of the Pre-tribbers understanding is laughable because he also holds the same perspective of being rescued from the "tribulation" before returning in "glory" so to speak to "rule."

In reality, I am calling Keraz and the Pre-tribbers out for their respective flawed misunderstanding of the scriptures.

Shalom
No prophecy should ever be taken metaphorically, spiritually or symbolically at any time

the purpose of prophecy is to prove to those who witness its fulfillment that God is God, he knows the begining for the end, he knows outside of time what will happen, and he proclaims it,

if people are mad God will restore a nation after they repent, and their own nation will likely be punished at that time because of unbelief, that’s no reason to twist Gods word to make it appear to say something it never said and hide the fact God said this will happen and it will

pre trib has some support, then again, all pre mill has support, so anyone who holds it must be this, and trues to push that view to no end is wrong

but to say certain things will not happen because we do not like it, is just as bad if not worse.
 

CharismaticLady

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I don't understand how God would rapture some of the church but not all if we are justified by God because of our faith in Christ, and have been reborn as His children. I just don't see how our works of the flesh, that is, anything that does not originate in the Spirit if Christ inside us, changes are standing before God, in that He would take this one and leave that one.

It all has to do with sin, my friend. You seem to believe as Martin Luther did, that sin doesn't separate us from God, when Jesus, Himself, said that he who sins is a slave to sin and will not inherit the kingdom of heaven. Only the righteous and holy will inherit the kingdom. A person who has been born again of the Spirit doesn't want to sin because they have been freed from sin. That is not staying away from sin in the flesh, but in the Spirit. Those without the Spirit do not belong to Christ.

As far as the rapture subject, compare the letter to Thyatira to the letter to Philadelphia. I do not believe in a secret rapture, seven years before Christ's second coming. Therefore, it has to do with the great tribulation and who will be protected and who will have to make a stand and be martyred for it. Tribulation is testing, not the wrath of God as the pre-tribbers believe.
 
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Eternally Grateful

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It all has to do with sin, my friend. You seem to believe as Martin Luther did, that sin doesn't separate us from God, when Jesus, Himself, said that he who sins is a slave to sin and will not inherit the kingdom of heaven. Only the righteous and holy will inherit the kingdom. A person who has been born again of the Spirit doesn't want to sin because they have been freed from sin. That is not staying away from sin in the flesh, but in the Spirit. Those without the Spirit do not belong to Christ.

As far as the rapture subject, compare the letter to Thyatira to the letter to Philadelphia. I do not believe in a secret rapture, seven years before Christ's second coming. Therefore, it has to do with the great tribulation and who will be protected and who will have to make a stand and be martyred for it. Tribulation is testing, not the wrath of God as the pre-tribbers believe.
There is a problem with this

All have sinned,If we say we have no sin we are deceived.

If sin takes us away, then NO ONE will make it

It also Denys the fact Jesus was the lamb Of God who took the sins of the world Yes sin seperated us, but Christ removed that barrier for all who believe, In John 6. Jesus said multiple ways to the group. Do not work for the food which will perish but the food which will endure to eternal life which h will give us. Jesus promised flat it. If we eat that bread he WILL raise us on the last day.

The same author also sai in his epistle. Whoever sins has never seen or known God. Whoever is born of God can not sin.

If this is true, Thena person born of God can not live a lifestyle of si which would separated them. And those who live a lifestyle of sin has never met God personally. (Even if they believe in him, belief is not enough)
 

Enow

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There are many misconstrued views on the timeline of the ET's and the events that will occur during this period.

What you quoted from my post above is a statement of the overview of the End Times. In our near future we will see the judgement of the nations at the place know as Armageddon as described in Rev 16:12-16 and which is the sixth bowl judgement. The bowl judgments are given in an order that is look at the final bowl judgment, Bowl one, that occurs very near to the end of the Age of the Ages and the rest of the bowl judgments are looked at from that point in time as John traces his steps backwards in time.

Thank you for sharing, but I see an oversight in your application of that one verse in Revelation 16:15 that you may want to reconsider in your application. Sometimes the Lord will interject a saying that is not consistent for what is being shared. Matthew 13:33 is such an example which happens to be the shortest parable concerning the kingdom of heaven but being made up of 3 harvests before He gives the kingdom back to the Father.

In any event, I can understand your reluctance to see that as an interjection to remind readers to be ready to avoid all that is coming, but I do point out that not everything in Revelation is being given to us in chronological order either, just as Matthew 24th chapter is not, when Jesus is answering 3 kinds of questions put to Him by His disciples from at the beginning of the chapter. Proof is found in Revelation 18:1-24 which the fall of Babylon is an event described in detail but it happens by the announcement of the 2nd angel of the 3 that sets up the hour of temptation that shall try all upon the earth in Revelation 14:6-11. The 1st angel, everyone will have heard and know the everlasting gospel and the third angel after that calamity of Babylon and the third of the earth ( which has to be the western hemisphere in order for the prophesy about the rest of the world's armies cited to be marching unto Jerusalem at the end of the great tribulation ) announces so that everyone will know the consequence for taking the mark of the beast which is the lake of fire. That is the setting up of the hour of temptation coming on the earth since the 2 nd angel is why the new world order is coming with the mark of the beast system to buy and sell in order to survive in that coming "great tribulation" period.

Anyway, that is an example of how events in Revelation are not in chronological order. And the reason I treat Revelation 16:15 as an interjection to remind believers to be ready is how that same reminder is given at the end of the Book of Revelation.

Revelation 22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star. 17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely. 18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: 19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. 20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus. 21 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.

And that reminder to be ready was announced at the beginning where the call given to be ready in how the events will unfold quickly for the set up of the hour of temptation that shall try all upon the earth as well as the events during the great tribulation;

Revelation 1:1The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John: 2 Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw. 3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand. 4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;

Now for this one church at Thyatira to be ready or else be cast into the bed of the great tribulation of verse 22 in Revelation 2:18-29 suggests churches and individual believers that are ready will not be cast into the bed of the great tribulation, otherwise the warning falls flat.

Now for the church at Philadelphia to be ready by holding fast is to be kept from the hour of temptation that shall try all upon the earth in Revelation 3:7-13 suggests they will not come under that hour of temptation that shall try all upon the earth which means they are not on earth and the consequence for not holding fast is to be subjected to that hour of temptation that shall try all upon the earth.

So Revelation 16:15 to be found ready or else is seen by me as an interjection for the readers from the beginning of the Book of Revelation to the end since the voice of the bride and Bridegroom will no longer be heard in Babylon any more per the event of Revelation 18:23-24 which occurred in Revelation 14:8 in setting up that hour of temptation that shall try all upon the earth, it is because the Bridegroom had come and gone and God has indeed, judged His House first at the pre great tribulation rapture event, leaving behind saved saints found in iniquity that will be resurrected later after the great tribulation as vessels unto dishonor in His House to serve the King of kings for the millennium reign on earth.

I do thank you for sharing your P.O.V. and you may still keep to it after that lengthy explanation for why I disagree with your P.O.V. but since we prophesy in part and know in part, we shall know one day when we see Him face to face.

But the call to be ready or else is being given to the churches and it would be moot, if it was for them to be ready for the end of the great tribulation when the world's armies are marching unto Jerusalem because the Lord is coming, and yet no man suppose to know the day nor the hour of His coming? So, no. The Book of Revelations and all His warnings in the N.T. are for believers now to avoid the consequences for not being ready.

If one question I would ask you is this; when will God judge His House first as per 1 Peter 4:17-19 ?

1 Peter 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? 18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? 19 Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.

I can apply all the words in this reference that the Lord will keep the souls of His saints left behind that will suffer to die in the calamity of fire on the third of the earth and for the remainder and new believers to suffer the coming hour of temptation which is the time of the great tribulation on earth.
 

Enow

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The scriptures simply do not say where the Supper will be held. Saying it is in heaven, is pure guesswork.

Seeing how believers are to be ready or else, and those references has to deal with the supper, and Luke 12:40-49 shows the consequences of being cut off and on earth when Jesus sends that fire on earth leads me to believe otherwise.

I believe it will be on earth, as that is where Jesus will be.

Then we agree to disagree, but at least I understand where you think that supper will be held.

Satan will be chained up at Jesus' Return. Revelation 20:2

Why this warning to the inhabitants of the earth below then after citing those who dwell in Heaven to rejoice that the accuser of our brethren is cast down to the earth?

Revelation 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. 10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. 11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. 12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. 13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child. 14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

That last verse is what will happen to the Jews when they have to flee from that son of perdition when he reveals himself in the Holy of holies, but that doesn't happen when he is cast down to the earth which I believe that event happens at the pre great tribulation rapture so Jesus can entertain the abiding raptured bride of Christ in Heaven with that Supper without the accuser of our brethren to spoil the festivities.
 

Enow

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This has no bearing on what God said who would be raptured

if your saved your saved, period. There is no half saved or partially saved people

Those left behind saints that are not found abiding in Him are still saved, brother. This is the result for having wood, stubble, & hay on that foundation for defiling the temple of God for why they are disqualified & left behind to be resurrected after the great tribulation as vessels unto dishonor in His House. That is why Jesus is warning believers to be ready as found abiding in Him and not have any iniquity on that foundation that denies Him.

That race is still by faith and by the grace of God because we are to look to Jesus Christ as our Good Shepherd, the author & finisher of our faith, to help us discern good and evil so He can help us depart from iniquity to be received by the Bridegroom as vessels unto honor in His House. Hebrews 12:1-2

So the Marriage Supper in Heaven will be held in sincerity and in truth for why any saved believer living in unrepentant sin like that brother was in 1 Corinthians 5 th chapter, they will be excommunicated by God since that is what the church is supposed to do down here for unrepentant saints to lead them to repentance so they too, can be ready for the Bridegroom before He comes or else be given unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh ( physical death ) so that the spirit may be resurrected after the great tribulation when Christ return as the King of kings.
 

Eternally Grateful

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Those left behind saints that are not found abiding in Him are still saved, brother. This is the result for having wood, stubble, & hay on that foundation for defiling the temple of God for why they are disqualified & left behind to be resurrected after the great tribulation as vessels unto dishonor in His House. That is why Jesus is warning believers to be ready as found abiding in Him and not have any iniquity on that foundation that denies Him.

That race is still by faith and by the grace of God because we are to look to Jesus Christ as our Good Shepherd, the author & finisher of our faith, to help us discern good and evil so He can help us depart from iniquity to be received by the Bridegroom as vessels unto honor in His House. Hebrews 12:1-2

So the Marriage Supper in Heaven will be held in sincerity and in truth for why any saved believer living in unrepentant sin like that brother was in 1 Corinthians 5 th chapter, they will be excommunicated by God since that is what the church is supposed to do down here for unrepentant saints to lead them to repentance so they too, can be ready for the Bridegroom before He comes or else be given unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh ( physical death ) so that the spirit may be resurrected after the great tribulation when Christ return as the King of kings.
There will be no left behind saints. Period
 

Enow

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There will be no left behind saints. Period

Then explain why Jesus said to pray that you may be found worthy to escape because the cares of this life can be a snare for those on earth?

Luke 21:33 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. 34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares. 35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. 36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

Luke 14:15-24 has Jesus explaining that those invited were making excuses not to come to the King's Supper for the cares of this life.

Luke 17:32 Remember Lot's wife. 33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it. 34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left. 35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 37 And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.

So that means Jesus is warning believers to pray that they may be found worthy to escape because not only are we not to be found in unrepentant iniquity to be ready to go but to pray that He will help us also to be willing to go because the cares of this life can overcharged some believers to not be willing to go when the Bridegroom comes.

So not every saved believer will be willing to go when the Bridegroom comes and not just the ones found to be in iniquity for why they are not ready.
 

marks

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It all has to do with sin, my friend. You seem to believe as Martin Luther did, that sin doesn't separate us from God, when Jesus, Himself, said that he who sins is a slave to sin and will not inherit the kingdom of heaven. Only the righteous and holy will inherit the kingdom. A person who has been born again of the Spirit doesn't want to sin because they have been freed from sin. That is not staying away from sin in the flesh, but in the Spirit. Those without the Spirit do not belong to Christ.

As far as the rapture subject, compare the letter to Thyatira to the letter to Philadelphia. I do not believe in a secret rapture, seven years before Christ's second coming. Therefore, it has to do with the great tribulation and who will be protected and who will have to make a stand and be martyred for it. Tribulation is testing, not the wrath of God as the pre-tribbers believe.
Hi CL,

I'm not Martin Luther, so I'm hoping you aren't ascribing his views to me.

Certainly sin separates the sinner from God, I think the Bible is clear about that.

To me the key point here to understand is our justification, which brings reconciliation. Those without the Spirit do not belong to Christ. And those with the Spirit do. Even those who have committed sins. They still belong to Jesus. They are still God's spirit children.

Oh, and we do actually get it about tribulation and wrath. But there will be wrath.

Much love!
 
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marks

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Then explain why Jesus said to pray that you may be found worthy to escape because the cares of this life can be a snare for those on earth?
Who did He speak that to, and what was it actually about? The rapture of the gentile church? A mystery that had not yet been revealed? I don't think so myself.

Much love!
 

marks

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The scriptures simply do not say where the Supper will be held. Saying it is in heaven, is pure guesswork.
I believe it will be on earth, as that is where Jesus will be.
Many will come from the east and west . . . where do we think they will be coming from? Heaven's east and heaven's west? From one end of heaven to the other, would be the idiom.

But from the east and west, that's on earth.

Much love!
 
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CharismaticLady

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There is a problem with this

All have sinned,If we say we have no sin we are deceived.

If sin takes us away, then NO ONE will make it

All have sinned, yes. That is what mankind inherited from Adam. But that is why Jesus came. He is the second Adam. To take away our sin, and in Him there is no sin. That is being born again of the Spirit. Before Christ, no one could say they didn't have sin, no matter how devout they were to keeping the law of Moses. If they did, they were a liar. But we are not sinners anymore, but children of God.

Compare John 8:34-36 with 1 John chapter 3.
 
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