Rapture Ready For Partial Rapture?

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Enow

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Who did He speak that to, and what was it actually about? The rapture of the gentile church? A mystery that had not yet been revealed? I don't think so myself.

Much love!

Well, feel free to explain what you think Jesus was talking about if not warning believers to be ready and thus willing to escape or else?

Luke 21:33 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. 34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares. 35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. 36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.
 

Eternally Grateful

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Then explain why Jesus said to pray that you may be found worthy to escape because the cares of this life can be a snare for those on earth?

Luke 21:33 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. 34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares. 35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. 36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

Luke 14:15-24 has Jesus explaining that those invited were making excuses not to come to the King's Supper for the cares of this life.

Luke 17:32 Remember Lot's wife. 33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it. 34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left. 35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 37 And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.

So that means Jesus is warning believers to pray that they may be found worthy to escape because not only are we not to be found in unrepentant iniquity to be ready to go but to pray that He will help us also to be willing to go because the cares of this life can overcharged some believers to not be willing to go when the Bridegroom comes.

So not every saved believer will be willing to go when the Bridegroom comes and not just the ones found to be in iniquity for why they are not ready.
Explain why god said those in Christ will rise first and those alive will follow after. If people in Christ are left behind?
 

Eternally Grateful

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All have sinned, yes. That is what mankind inherited from Adam. But that is why Jesus came. He is the second Adam. To take away our sin, and in Him there is no sin. That is being born again of the Spirit. Before Christ, no one could say they didn't have sin, no matter how devout they were to keeping the law of Moses. If they did, they were a liar. But we are not sinners anymore, but children of God.

Compare John 8:34-36 with 1 John chapter 3.

actually in the passage all have sinned and fall short. The Greek tends to lead to the fact not only have all sinned. But all are sinning and continue to fall short

we should not forget the fact if we stood in front of God today as we are, apart from Christ, would be cast out as sinners
 
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CharismaticLady

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Hi CL,

I'm not Martin Luther, so I'm hoping you aren't ascribing his views to me.

Certainly sin separates the sinner from God, I think the Bible is clear about that.

To me the key point here to understand is our justification, which brings reconciliation. Those without the Spirit do not belong to Christ. And those with the Spirit do. Even those who have committed sins. They still belong to Jesus. They are still God's spirit children.

Oh, and we do actually get it about tribulation and wrath. But there will be wrath.

Much love!

No, I am not directly comparing you to Martin Luther, but he is the one that started the Reformation. Just about every Protestant denomination has been tainted by some of the doctrines from the Reformation.

What you have said here: "Those without the Spirit do not belong to Christ. And those with the Spirit do. Even those who have committed sins. They still belong to Jesus. They are still God's spirit children." is in direct contradiction to John 8:34-36 and 1 John 3. How do you explain that?
 

Eternally Grateful

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No, I am not directly comparing you to Martin Luther, but he is the one that started the Reformation. Just about every Protestant denomination has been tainted by some of the doctrines from the Reformation.

What you have said here: "Those without the Spirit do not belong to Christ. And those with the Spirit do. Even those who have committed sins. They still belong to Jesus. They are still God's spirit children." is in direct contradiction to John 8:34-36 and 1 John 3. How do you explain that?
1 John 3. Whoever sins has never seen or known god. Whoever has been born of god does not sin

how do you resolve this?
 

CharismaticLady

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actually in the passage all have sinned and fall short. The Greek tends to lead to the fact not only have all sinned. But all are sinning and continue to fall short

we should not forget the fact if we stood in front of God today as we are, apart from Christ, would be cast out as sinners

Yes, everyone after Adam and before Christ's Spirit is given to those who repent of sin and accept Christ's cleansing, sin and continue sinning. That's a no brainer. A heresy taught from the Reformation is that even with the Spirit, Christians will always sin. We still have free will, but we now have power and are partakers of the divine nature that doesn't want to sin.

Yes, Jesus is the only way to cure us from Adam's sin. It is interesting though that those in the Old Testament and those in the New before Christ died for us, who were trusting in their coming Messiah, their sins were not held against them as they did not have the power given to us today to stop sinning. Jesus frees us from SIN, not just the punishment from sin, not just covering our sin as we keep committing sin so the Father does see it, and not just from the LAW. All three of those twisting errors have been taught in the Protestant church since the Reformation. And even though John Wesley did his best to correct this teaching, there are millions in denomination directly associated with John Calvin, a peer of Martin Luther.

Romans 8:
23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, 26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.
 

marks

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Well, feel free to explain what you think Jesus was talking about if not warning believers to be ready and thus willing to escape or else?

Luke 21:33 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. 34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares. 35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. 36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.
This topic has more to do with justification than with this.

In this case, "escape" is to flee from, not be caught up. This isn't the rapture.

But regarding justification, your idea is that some are more worthy based on themselves. I believe all are equally unworthy, but in Christ, all are accepted.

Much love!
 

marks

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No, I am not directly comparing you to Martin Luther, but he is the one that started the Reformation. Just about every Protestant denomination has been tainted by some of the doctrines from the Reformation.
OK, I just hope you don't paint me with someone else's ideas, that's all.

Much love!
 

Enoch111

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But regarding justification, your idea is that some are more worthy based on themselves. I believe all are equally unworthy, but in Christ, all are accepted.
That is correct. However, there are many on this forum who do not understand what justification is, or even what the finished work of Christ is all about. So that is either (a) ignorance or (b) wilful blindness.
 

marks

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No, I am not directly comparing you to Martin Luther, but he is the one that started the Reformation. Just about every Protestant denomination has been tainted by some of the doctrines from the Reformation.

What you have said here: "Those without the Spirit do not belong to Christ. And those with the Spirit do. Even those who have committed sins. They still belong to Jesus. They are still God's spirit children." is in direct contradiction to John 8:34-36 and 1 John 3. How do you explain that?
We've been around this a few times already.

Christians commit sins. It happens. And it doesn't mean you are not a Christian. The conflict remains so long as we remain in these bodies.

Much love!
 
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CharismaticLady

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We've been around this a few times already.

Christians commit sins. It happens. And it doesn't mean you are not a Christian. The conflict remains so long as we remain in these bodies.

Much love!

That last sentence is straight from Calvinism. It is why we disagree on this point over and over. This is where it is from:

Romans 8:
9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. 10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

All Paul is doing here is clarifying that even though our new born again of the Spirit nature doesn't sin and will be alive forever, our body will still die because of Adam's sin. It is mortal, and must put on immortality.

The Reformationist needed to read on, instead of out of context and twisted the meaning.

Romans 8:
12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

In other words, if you live according to the Spirit you will not sin, and live.
 
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Eternally Grateful

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Yes, everyone after Adam and before Christ's Spirit is given to those who repent of sin and accept Christ's cleansing, sin and continue sinning. That's a no brainer. A heresy taught from the Reformation is that even with the Spirit, Christians will always sin. We still have free will, but we now have power and are partakers of the divine nature that doesn't want to sin.

Yes, Jesus is the only way to cure us from Adam's sin. It is interesting though that those in the Old Testament and those in the New before Christ died for us, who were trusting in their coming Messiah, their sins were not held against them as they did not have the power given to us today to stop sinning. Jesus frees us from SIN, not just the punishment from sin, not just covering our sin as we keep committing sin so the Father does see it, and not just from the LAW. All three of those twisting errors have been taught in the Protestant church since the Reformation. And even though John Wesley did his best to correct this teaching, there are millions in denomination directly associated with John Calvin, a peer of Martin Luther.

Romans 8:
23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, 26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.
Are you catholic? Just asking

John said in 1 John 8 if we (he included himself) say we have no sin we are deceived

James said if we keep the whole law yet break one point we are guilty of the law

I know if only one sinless person and his name was jesus

so can you explain what you see
 

Eternally Grateful

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That last sentence is straight from Calvinism. It is why we disagree on this point over and over. This is where it is from:

Romans 8:
9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. 10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

All Paul is doing here is clarifying that even though our new born again of the Spirit nature doesn't sin and will be alive forever, our body will still die because of Adam's sin. It is mortal, and must put on immortality.

The Reformationist needed to read on, instead of out of context and twisted the meaning.

Romans 8:
12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

In other words, if you live according to the Spirit you will not sin, and live.

again John said if you are born if god you can’t sin

you have to resolve that issue.
You seem to proclaim a person can be born to God and live in sin.
 

CharismaticLady

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Are you catholic? Just asking

John said in 1 John 8 if we (he included himself) say we have no sin we are deceived

James said if we keep the whole law yet break one point we are guilty of the law

I know if only one sinless person and his name was jesus

so can you explain what you see

No, I am not Catholic. But not Reformationist either. If anything, I am a Philadelphian. (not the American city. LOL)

Yes, I can explain it. First, do you see that it contradicts 1 John 3? In a contradiction we need to see which is right. You seem to believe 1 John 1:8, and I believe 1 John 1:7, and also 1 John 3.

1 John 1:8 is about self-righteousness that is like filthy rags. It is before 1 John 1:9, the verse that is about BECOMING a true Christian. There are many inside the church who believe in Jesus, but have not made Him Lord and because of that, Jesus has never given them the Holy Spirit to dwell inside them giving them all the power needed to not sin willfully. It is the knowing that makes it a sin unto death, both spiritually and eternally.
 

CharismaticLady

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again John said if you are born if god you can’t sin

you have to resolve that issue.
You seem to proclaim a person can be born to God and live in sin.

I'm saying what John is saying, and the opposite of what you think I'm saying. If you are born of God you cannot sin. Why because His seed is in you. 1 John 3:9

Again, we are talking about willful sin - 1 John 3:4
 

CharismaticLady

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@Eternally Grateful

Outside 1 John 1:8 which is someone who may call themselves a Christian but have never repented so are not. What other scriptures say we will continue to willfully sin and still go to heaven.

I'm going to eat. Looking forward to your response and will continue later.

This is a very common debate I have with people. You are not the first because the Reformation has almost completely infiltrated every denomination. Especially, the misinterpretation of 1 John 1:8
 
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Eternally Grateful

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No, I am not Catholic. But not Reformationist either. If anything, I am a Philadelphian. (not the American city. LOL)

Yes, I can explain it. First, do you see that it contradicts 1 John 3? In a contradiction we need to see which is right. You seem to believe 1 John 1:8, and I believe 1 John 1:7, and also 1 John 3.

1 John 1:8 is about self-righteousness that is like filthy rags. It is before 1 John 1:9, the verse that is about BECOMING a true Christian. There are many inside the church who believe in Jesus, but have not made Him Lord and because of that, Jesus has never given them the Holy Spirit to dwell inside them giving them all the power needed to not sin willfully. It is the knowing that makes it a sin unto death, both spiritually and eternally.
I can see I disagree

1 John 1 :3 is talking about habitual sin. Not personal sin. John is not saying a child born of god will never sin again. He is saying the will not live a life of habitual sin. Whoever does has never seen god

1 John 1: 8 does not mention self righteousness it says if we say we have no sin

I am glad your not catholic lol.
 

Eternally Grateful

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@Eternally Grateful

Outside 1 John 1:8 which is someone who may call themselves a Christian but have never repented so are not. What other scriptures say we will continue to willfully sin and still go to heaven.

I'm going to eat. Looking forward to your response and will continue later.

This is a very common debate I have with people. You are not the first because the Reformation has almost completely infiltrated every denomination.
@Eternally Grateful

Outside 1 John 1:8 which is someone who may call themselves a Christian but have never repented so are not. What other scriptures say we will continue to willfully sin and still go to heaven.

I'm going to eat. Looking forward to your response and will continue later.

This is a very common debate I have with people. You are not the first because the Reformation has almost completely infiltrated every denomination.
If we could be sinless we would earn salvation and no longer need grace we also would not need to continue to run the race we would have arrived. We also would no longer need to be sanctified we would be glorified

I am not reformed. Please do not argue with this basis. It helps no one

I hope you have a blessed dinner