Different Levels Of Sin..?

Dan,As I understand it, we don't pay for our sins at all in life. There's nothing like active buddhist karma, we simply live out our fate as envisioned by God. And time to be accountable for our sins comes after death. That is, if we haven't repented we can't go to Heaven and are stuck for a millenium in another place. But I don't think that we will ever have to pay for each sin individually.And I too am wondering how God chooses what fate each of us has here on Earth. There was a previous earth age, though, and probably this is what he takes into account to make all our fates here fair. If you were good back then you will have good environment and fate now, and vice versa.

QUOTE (Dan @ May 4 2009, 09:26 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=73262
Thanks for the input Violet. Personally, I kind of look at life on this earth as a delicate, gold watch. I don't think of God as being up in Heaven waiting for me to sin so that He can inflict the appropriate punishment. More... He set the fine parts of the watch to work in a very specific way. If we do a mild sin it's like grabbing one of the clock hands with your fingers momentarily. (The time is going to be off later.) And if we commit a big sin it's like throwing a hammer into the clock gears. (The clock is going to break.) So, yes, I personally believe there are 'penalties' or whatever you want to call them for sin while we are here on earth. This has been my personal experience after many years as a Christian.
Is it scriptural? Although you may not care I guess, if you're a "free thinker". But I wish somebody with certain knowledge on this topic spoke, it would be interesting to hear what scriptures actually say on this.I kind of dislike knowledge based on personal experience only, because experience can be interpreted wrongly, unfortunately. If you don't mind me asking, what's your take on this and do you hold any "source" of knowledge in regard at all?

Loss of rewards at judgement will be the big issue comparing those who sin a lot and those who sin less. Martin W.

I find it amazing that there are 4 posters on this topic and know one has used one verse of Scripture to support their position. Is that what Christianity Board has come too, making grand statements based on opinion and not Scripture.

Sin is sin under the Law if you broke one you broke them all .. Under grace ... Are we told different? the penality for differnt sins may have been differnt under the Law ... under grace ..We are told to repent... Under Christ/grace we have repentance because Christ died for all sin ... Of course their are Civil penalties to pay for some sins. read the scriptures of Law vs Grace http://www.christianityboard.com/index.php?showtopic=7542

QUOTE (Denver @ May 4 2009, 05:33 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=73278
Well, go back to Leviticus. There were differences for the type of offering that was done after a sin. Aspects of sin were distinguished such as committing a sin in ignorance only to later realize it was versus a full blown sin known at the time. This aspect seems to suggest that sins weren't all equal. Some required more in burnt offerings than others. Even at the modern level, the Christian knows the difference between sin and then the unpardonable sin.
But are we actually punished in the course of life for these sins?.. Like, our destiny can be changed according to our own acts? I was taught that our destiny is not changeable. And I just can't remember anything like active reward system, could you please clear it up for me.QUOTE (Dan)
Wow Violet. You seem to be unusually harsh on me. My clock analogy is simply how I think of things. I did not claim that is exactly how things work. I challenge anyone to explain exactly how things work. That would be a first. The Bible is the ultimate authority to answer your question.
Sorry I didn't mean it as anything personal Dan. It just sounds like I'm being harsh about you because my post was a reply to yours, but it merely was my general opinion about free thinking vs scriptures.

QUOTE (BenTobijah @ May 4 2009, 12:12 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=73280
I find it amazing that there are 4 posters on this topic and know one has used one verse of Scripture to support their position. Is that what Christianity Board has come too, making grand statements based on opinion and not Scripture.
BenPharasees quoted scripture all day long. How did that work out? I would much rather hear 10 genuine words from a Christian who has actually retained some bible knowlege than see 10 pages of cut and pasted scripture. One person has "learned the message" at some earlier time (Which should be the intent of all bible study) and some others must resort to endless cut and paste of scripture because they cannot stand on their own two feet and defend a belief in their own words.Anyway , not sure if you were wanting me to back up my earlier post regarding the effect sin and works will have for the Christian at judgement , here is a bit: (Keep in mind the Christian has been forgiven so this refers to rewards (or loss of rewards) at the Bema Seat of Christ(Judgment of the beleiver)======================================....... You, then, why do you judge your brother? Or why do you look down on your brother? For we will all stand before God's judgment seat. It is written: 'As surely as I live,' says the Lord, 'every knee will bow before me; every tongue will confess to God.' So then, each of us will give an account of himself to God. For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive what is due him for the things done while in the body, whether good or badBut each one should be careful how he builds. For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. If any man builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, his work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each man's work. If what he has built survives, he will receive his reward. If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames. =======================================I hope that clarifies my earlier post in this regard.Best wishes Martin W.

Sorry they would not let me post yesterdayPaul describes himself in 1 Tim. 1:15 …Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief. Yet even though he had a thorn in the flesh 2 Cor.12: 7-10 that was there to help him and not the result of past sinning. Paul list a lot of bad stuff that happened to him in 2 Cor.12: 7-10 put does not say that was for his past sins.In general: faithful Christians are not in the situation at the moment as a result of their past sins, but solely for the good they can do. Faithful Christians are here to do good and it is our pray that we be in the situation to do the most good with the experience and spiritual development we have. If we murder someone and are in prison for that murder and God has forgiven us of that murder, we may stay in prison to do the work of the Lord there are get out to do the work of the Lord there. Where we are at has nothing to do with the (sins) murder and everything to do with where we can best serve and if we can handle the temptations 1 Cor. 10: 13No temptation has seized you except what is common to man. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can stand up under it.

QUOTE (Dan @ May 1 2009, 06:01 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=73204
Hi,...I also understand that Christians will ultimately be forgiven for all sin because Jesus paid the price for our sins....
Sins are forgiven when we confess them and ask for forgiveness. Forgiveness takes some action on our part1Jn 1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. 1Jn 1:6 If(G1437) we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: 1Jn 1:7 But if(G1437) we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. 1Jn 1:8 IfG(G1437) we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 1Jn 1:9 If(G1437) we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 1Jn 1:10 If(G1437) we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. G1437ἐάνeaneh-an'From G1487 and G302; a conditional particle; in case that, provided, etc.; often used in connection with other particles to denote indefiniteness or uncertainty: - before, but, except, (and) if, (if) so, (what-, whither-) soever, though, when (-soever), whether (or), to whom, [who-] so (-ever). See G3361.

There are indeed consequences for our actions, good or bad. So when we sin, yes there are consequences. But the Scriptures are clear that Jesus Christ was the full payment (propitiation) for all sins. Because of that, when we do sin, and every one does, we can confess our sin to the Father, Who is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.I am most thankful, every day, for three things. I am alive! I have been given another day to live. Secondly, I have been given eternal life. If this life was all there was, then what would be the point of anything? And thirdly, God's forgiveness is available. To spend eternity without forgiveness would be horrible.Finally, it really doesn't help us to walk for Him if we are sin conscious. I know that God's grace and forgiveness is not a license to sin, but the Scriptures say that if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God. Sin consciousness and condemnation will drain the life right out of you. Ask for forgiveness, accept His forgiveness, then forgive yourself and move on.

QUOTE (Dan @ May 4 2009, 03:26 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=73285
My take on this issue is that we are forgiven of all sins through the blood of Jesus but when you commit a sin on earth there may still ramifications in this present world. If you steal the purse of a little old lady God may forgive you immediately, but the real world ramification it that QUOTE
a big burly man nearby may tackle you and beat the living tar out of you.
And if you murder that little old lady you may be beaten to death without a trial by a gang of angry onlookers. Stealing and murder are sins. Committing each sin has a different real world penalty, regardless of whether or not you are forgiven in an eternal sense. I guess the question arises, are these real world penalties ultimately inflicted by God or... hmm.I like that Dan and it is sooo true.Logabe

QUOTE (Mike Verdicchio @ May 6 2009, 05:31 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=73329
There are indeed consequences for our actions, good or bad. So when we sin, yes there are consequences. But the Scriptures are clear that Jesus Christ was the full payment (propitiation) for all sins. Because of that, when we do sin, and every one does, we can confess our sin to the Father, Who is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.I am most thankful, every day, for three things. I am alive! I have been given another day to live. Secondly, I have been given eternal life. If this life was all there was, then what would be the point of anything? And thirdly, God's forgiveness is available. To spend eternity without forgiveness would be horrible.Finally, it really doesn't help us to walk for Him if we are sin conscious. I know that God's grace and forgiveness is not a license to sin, but the Scriptures say that if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God. Sin consciousness and condemnation will drain the life right out of you. Ask for forgiveness, accept His forgiveness, then forgive yourself and move on.
In three short paragraphs you have said it all Mike. Perfect. Thank you.Martin W.

QUOTE (Dan @ May 1 2009, 06:01 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=73204
Hi,It is my understanding that God detests all sin and that one sin is not necessarily worse than another because they are all bad.I also understand that Christians will ultimately be forgiven for all sin because Jesus paid the price for our sins.QUOTE
However... while we are still here, living on earth, it seems to me that there is in fact a price paid for our sins and some prices are higher than others. What I mean to say is, although we may not be held accountable for our sins when we leave this world... while we are still here there does seem to be a price we pay in human suffering for our sins and that depending on the severity of the sin our suffering can be greater or less.
Dan, that was a very good statement...and you are right. What most Christiansdon't understand and I didn't understand for over 30 yrs was my sins were coveredby the Blood of the Lamb and @ that point, I had a different relationship with theDivine Law. I became a Son of God but I still wasn't perfect...so God chastises meto correct me but @ times I think He is unjust.We are going through a purifing fire and learning obedience through the things wesuffer. Before I knew Christ...I could sin and not feel guilty, but now when I sin, Ifeel terrible. The difference now is I am benefitting by allowing God to correct me,where as before...I was wondering why bad things would happen to me and I was not getting any spiritual gain from the experience.God is looking for a people who acknowledge their shortcomings. Who are not afraid to admit when they have fallen short and are in need of God's understanding and love. We often hear that we need to confess our sins. I think this is where some confusion develops. Most are taught that true confession means to repent of your sins and to turn away from your sin. That you would ask for forgiveness and never commit that sin again. While I wish that was true for myself, I understand that many times I confess to God about a sin, and return to do that sin anyway. This is true of most, if not all of us. While we may be truly sorry for what we have done, it is hard to overcome some of these sins in our life. We feel overwhelmed by them and fear that they are too ingrained for us to overcome. This is why they are referred to as strongholds. But even God tells us that we can overcome strongholds. 2 Corinthians 10:3-5: 3 For though we live in the world, we do not wage war as the world does. 4 The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds. 5 We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ. Notice that the key to defeating these strongholds is the use of divine power. In other words you must be connected with God to be able to beat them; to be able to tear them down. Without God you are virtually helpless and will not win. But I am a little ahead of myself. Before I continue on that tract, let's understand what confession is. The most accurate definition of confession is to be saying the same thing that God is saying. God knows you have sinned and all the sins you have committed. When you confess you are stating the same thing that He is. But there is also one more major part to confession that needs to be added. That being that as part of saying what God is saying that you agree that what He says about your sin is correct. In other words, it is acknowledging that you should not be committing those sins. Not that you completely stop doing them but instead that you acknowledge that they are wrong and never justifiable.This is where people get a little overzealous in their understanding. While I agree for the most part that it is a turning away from sin, the turning away is not as much in the physical as it is in the mind. It is not that you stop ever committing that sin; it is that you agree that the sin is wrong and seek God's help in overcoming the sin. Confession is then the admission of our wrongs and the acknowledgement that we should no longer do them. When we have sin in our lives and we do not offer our confessions about it then it leads to having a stronghold. We become overwhelmed by the sin, and do not feel that we can ever remove it. This stronghold afflicts us, and because we are not confessing it, we are keeping ourselves from God, and thus in our affliction we are evil. To be frank with you, sins remain sins in our lives because of secrecy. When we confess things in the open to God they no longer have the same control over us. Strongholds are dark places where we hide our transgressions hoping no one will notice them, especially the Father. We then try to further hide them by putting on a fig leaf and asking God to look at this. All this does is make our sin more ingrained and make us unable to overcome those strongholds.To beat them we must stand before God and say what He is saying, think as He is thinking, and invite His Spirit to demolish strongholds in our lives. If we do this, evil will not be at our doors. Logabe For example, you lie when you say that your mother looks wonderful. Or you stub your toe and use the Lord's name in vain. Compare those with a guy and a girl who live together for years in open sin and the immense pain and suffering that happens when things do not work out and they break up.Thanks for your comments,~Dan