you dont think you have you either KNOW you do or you don't know which means lost ------>no hopeSome think
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you dont think you have you either KNOW you do or you don't know which means lost ------>no hopeSome think
Salvation is not probation.We call that conditional life. Not eternal life
it really dont matter what some think. God covered them with animal skins first shedding of Blood for the remission of sin. there WAS NO LAW established yet By God . other wise he would have took them out. he gave cain a second chance twice. all though cain was not interested he had no desire. one last note THE LAW comes in chapter 9 after the flood . but sin soon found its way inSome think that they had eternal life abiding in them.
They rejected God's law and lost their eternal life.
So to say they had the Holy Ghost and lost it.
I agree about God covering them, giving them hope in not being lost.
Their own covering was not expectable to cover their sins.
They are like Cain. Thing God will accept the fruit of their laborSalvation is not probation.
Eternal life is not temporary life.
Jesus is the door. He is not a revolving door.
Who said the candlestick represents salvation for the church at Ephesus? In regards to the church in Ephesus, the Lord wanted the members of that church to repent (change their minds) about their attitudes regarding their works. "You have left your first love/repent and do the first works." (Revelation 2:4-5) Works of love no longer characterized the church as a whole at Ephesus. The preceding and following verses make it clear that the church at Ephesus was not totally displeasing to the Lord. He commended that church for maintaining doctrinal purity in the face of false teachers, yet that is not a substitute for love. The question in the verse before us is the warning which follows the Lord's command to repent. What did the Lord mean when He spoke of removing the church's candlestick or lampstand if they did not repent? The removal of the lampstand is figurative language. This does not mean that individuals in that church will lose their salvation, but the church can forfeit its place of light bearing and witness. Ephesus is a city which is now overrun by Islam, so the light of that church has been removed there.Well either way the church or some people in the church somebody was lukewarm.
If the whole church was lukewarm, then everyone was in trouble.
you got two groups mixed up
Ephesus church needed to repent or lose their candlestick salvation.
Laodicean church saints were lukewarm also needed to repent to save themselves.
They had a laws.it really dont matter what some think. God covered them with animal skins first shedding of Blood for the remission of sin. there WAS NO LAW established yet By God . other wise he would have took them out. he gave cain a second chance twice. all though cain was not interested he had no desire. one last note THE LAW comes in chapter 9 after the flood . but sin soon found its way in
I agree not everybody was a failure in those churches, but there was a problem in those churches.Who said the candlestick represents salvation for the church at Ephesus? In regards to the church in Ephesus, the Lord wanted the members of that church to repent (change their minds) about their attitudes regarding their works. "You have left your first love/repent and do the first works." (Revelation 2:4-5) Works of love no longer characterized the church as a whole at Ephesus. The preceding and following verses make it clear that the church at Ephesus was not totally displeasing to the Lord. He commended that church for maintaining doctrinal purity in the face of false teachers, yet that is not a substitute for love. The question in the verse before us is the warning which follows the Lord's command to repent. What did the Lord mean when He spoke of removing the church's candlestick or lampstand if they did not repent? The removal of the lampstand is figurative language. This does not mean that individuals in that church will lose their salvation, but the church can forfeit its place of light bearing and witness. Ephesus is a city which is now overrun by Islam, so the light of that church has been removed there.
Jesus points out the lifeless state of the church in Sardis - "..you have a name that you are alive, but you are dead." This church may have had a name of being alive, but they were spiritually lifeless. In other words, the church was filled with unsaved people going through the motions of religion who needed to wake up and repent IN CONTRAST with a few people in Sardis who have not soiled their garments; and they will walk with Jesus in white.
*White garments are mentioned elsewhere in the book of Revelation. The church at Laodicea mentions white garments, that you may be clothed, that the shame of your nakedness may not be revealed. (Revelation 3:18) The 24 elders wear white garments. (Revelation 4:4) The martyrs waiting for God’s judgment are given white robes to wear. (Revelation 6:11) The armies appearing with the Messiah also wear white and clean linen. (Revelation 19:14) The great multitude of the saved in Revelation 7:14 wear robes made white in the red blood of the Lamb. The color makes the point and implies that the color white stands for God’s people made spiritually pure and justified by Jesus’ blood. That means the few in Sardis who were given white robes had been made right and just before God.
In Revelation 3:5, we read - "He who overcomes I will never blot out his name from the book of life." The "overcomer" mentioned in this letter to Sardis is the Believer/Christian. Compare this with 1 John 5:4: "Everyone who is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world--our faith."
In regards to the church of the Laodiceans,
Revelation 3:15 "I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot. I could wish you were cold or hot. 16 So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of My mouth. 17 Because you say, 'I am rich, have become wealthy, and have need of nothing'—and do not know that you are wretched, miserable, poor, blind, and naked— 18 I counsel you to buy from Me gold refined in the fire, that you may be rich; and white garments, that you may be clothed, that the shame of your nakedness may not be revealed; and anoint your eyes with eye salve, that you may see. 19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten. Therefore be zealous and repent. 20 Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me. 21 To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne. - *See 1 John 5:4.
Keep in mind that in various churches, it's not hard to find "nominal Christians/make believers" mixed in with genuine Christians/genuine believers.
that was not a law .but a command the law points towards sinDo not eat of the tree of knowledge of Good and Evil.
God's words are instruction for us to follow, either way its a sin if you break itthat was not a law .but a command the law points towards sin
Once saved always saved
Has it always existed from the beginning of mankind ?
Did the OT saints have OSAS covering ?
I don't really know how the OSAS believers think on this.
Just thought they believed it happened after Jesus came.
That Jesus changed everything about salvation.
what did God do ith them failing to follow instructions ? A. KILL THEM or B cover there nakedness ? your taking a subject you can not proveGod's words are instruction for us to follow, either way its a sin if you break it
They died, that is proofwhat did God do ith them failing to follow instructions ? A. KILL THEM or B cover there nakedness ? your taking a subject you can not prove
you dont even make sense death same up on all humans after the fall ..there is No such thing as a temporary covering . i dont know where you got that at but it aint BibleThey died, that is proof
They must had lost a covering first and then they got a temporary covering and later a resurrection.
So, if you belong to a church and there are those in it who are lukewarm, does that mean that you are tarred and feathered with the same brush?Well either way the church or some people in the church somebody was lukewarm.
If the whole church was lukewarm, then everyone was in trouble.
you got two groups mixed up
Ephesus church needed to repent or lose their candlestick salvation.
Laodicean church saints were lukewarm also needed to repent to save themselves.
They had a covering of God on them before the fall.you dont even make sense death same up on all humans after the fall ..there is No such thing as a temporary covering . i dont know where you got that at but it aint Bible
As this was written to the Laodicean church Angel(minister).So, if you belong to a church and there are those in it who are lukewarm, does that mean that you are tarred and feathered with the same brush?
Although the penalty and the power of sin is removed by the finished work of Christ on the cross, the presence of sin is still with us in our mortal flesh. This is why Paul says that he buffets the flesh to keep it subdued. And God leaves just enough guilt for sin to remind us of how easy it is for us to succumb to temptation if we are not sober and vigilant.Revelation 3:19
19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
In the OSAS belief ?
Why would God correct, beat his children with stern words and punishment ?
My thought is why is this needed if we are OSAS and cannot overcome the so call sin nature ?
you have about half that right ..your going to need to back up what you say with scriptureThey had a covering of God on them before the fall.
They lost something from within to cause them to fear God and hid themselves with leaves.
God gave them a choice covering for salvation if they choose it.
God gave Adam another 930 years, that was a temporary life span.
But they were going to die and had to wait for the Messiah to come