OSAS beginning ?

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Ezra

Well-Known Member
Dec 27, 2018
2,564
1,314
113
62
Missouri
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Some think that they had eternal life abiding in them.
They rejected God's law and lost their eternal life.
So to say they had the Holy Ghost and lost it.

I agree about God covering them, giving them hope in not being lost.
Their own covering was not expectable to cover their sins.
it really dont matter what some think. God covered them with animal skins first shedding of Blood for the remission of sin. there WAS NO LAW established yet By God . other wise he would have took them out. he gave cain a second chance twice. all though cain was not interested he had no desire. one last note THE LAW comes in chapter 9 after the flood . but sin soon found its way in
 

mailmandan

Well-Known Member
Feb 24, 2020
4,443
4,727
113
The Midwest
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Well either way the church or some people in the church somebody was lukewarm.
If the whole church was lukewarm, then everyone was in trouble.

you got two groups mixed up
Ephesus church needed to repent or lose their candlestick salvation.
Laodicean church saints were lukewarm also needed to repent to save themselves.
Who said the candlestick represents salvation for the church at Ephesus? In regards to the church in Ephesus, the Lord wanted the members of that church to repent (change their minds) about their attitudes regarding their works. "You have left your first love/repent and do the first works." (Revelation 2:4-5) Works of love no longer characterized the church as a whole at Ephesus. The preceding and following verses make it clear that the church at Ephesus was not totally displeasing to the Lord. He commended that church for maintaining doctrinal purity in the face of false teachers, yet that is not a substitute for love. The question in the verse before us is the warning which follows the Lord's command to repent. What did the Lord mean when He spoke of removing the church's candlestick or lampstand if they did not repent? The removal of the lampstand is figurative language. This does not mean that individuals in that church will lose their salvation, but the church can forfeit its place of light bearing and witness. Ephesus is a city which is now overrun by Islam, so the light of that church has been removed there.

Jesus points out the lifeless state of the church in Sardis - "..you have a name that you are alive, but you are dead." This church may have had a name of being alive, but they were spiritually lifeless. In other words, the church was filled with unsaved people going through the motions of religion who needed to wake up and repent IN CONTRAST with a few people in Sardis who have not soiled their garments; and they will walk with Jesus in white.

*White garments are mentioned elsewhere in the book of Revelation. The church at Laodicea mentions white garments, that you may be clothed, that the shame of your nakedness may not be revealed. (Revelation 3:18) The 24 elders wear white garments. (Revelation 4:4) The martyrs waiting for God’s judgment are given white robes to wear. (Revelation 6:11) The armies appearing with the Messiah also wear white and clean linen. (Revelation 19:14) The great multitude of the saved in Revelation 7:14 wear robes made white in the red blood of the Lamb. The color makes the point and implies that the color white stands for God’s people made spiritually pure and justified by Jesus’ blood. That means the few in Sardis who were given white robes had been made right and just before God.

In Revelation 3:5, we read - "He who overcomes I will never blot out his name from the book of life." The "overcomer" mentioned in this letter to Sardis is the Believer/Christian. Compare this with 1 John 5:4: "Everyone who is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world--our faith."

In regards to the church of the Laodiceans,

Revelation 3:15 "I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot. I could wish you were cold or hot. 16 So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of My mouth. 17 Because you say, 'I am rich, have become wealthy, and have need of nothing'—and do not know that you are wretched, miserable, poor, blind, and naked— 18 I counsel you to buy from Me gold refined in the fire, that you may be rich; and white garments, that you may be clothed, that the shame of your nakedness may not be revealed; and anoint your eyes with eye salve, that you may see. 19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten. Therefore be zealous and repent. 20 Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me. 21 To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne. - *See 1 John 5:4.

Keep in mind that in various churches, it's not hard to find "nominal Christians/make believers" mixed in with genuine Christians/genuine believers.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Eternally Grateful

Bible_Gazer

Active Member
Mar 7, 2014
417
80
28
Bloomington, Indiana
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
it really dont matter what some think. God covered them with animal skins first shedding of Blood for the remission of sin. there WAS NO LAW established yet By God . other wise he would have took them out. he gave cain a second chance twice. all though cain was not interested he had no desire. one last note THE LAW comes in chapter 9 after the flood . but sin soon found its way in
They had a laws.
Do not eat of the tree of knowledge of Good and Evil.
Put on the covering.
replenish the Earth
....................
……………....
 

Bible_Gazer

Active Member
Mar 7, 2014
417
80
28
Bloomington, Indiana
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Who said the candlestick represents salvation for the church at Ephesus? In regards to the church in Ephesus, the Lord wanted the members of that church to repent (change their minds) about their attitudes regarding their works. "You have left your first love/repent and do the first works." (Revelation 2:4-5) Works of love no longer characterized the church as a whole at Ephesus. The preceding and following verses make it clear that the church at Ephesus was not totally displeasing to the Lord. He commended that church for maintaining doctrinal purity in the face of false teachers, yet that is not a substitute for love. The question in the verse before us is the warning which follows the Lord's command to repent. What did the Lord mean when He spoke of removing the church's candlestick or lampstand if they did not repent? The removal of the lampstand is figurative language. This does not mean that individuals in that church will lose their salvation, but the church can forfeit its place of light bearing and witness. Ephesus is a city which is now overrun by Islam, so the light of that church has been removed there.

Jesus points out the lifeless state of the church in Sardis - "..you have a name that you are alive, but you are dead." This church may have had a name of being alive, but they were spiritually lifeless. In other words, the church was filled with unsaved people going through the motions of religion who needed to wake up and repent IN CONTRAST with a few people in Sardis who have not soiled their garments; and they will walk with Jesus in white.

*White garments are mentioned elsewhere in the book of Revelation. The church at Laodicea mentions white garments, that you may be clothed, that the shame of your nakedness may not be revealed. (Revelation 3:18) The 24 elders wear white garments. (Revelation 4:4) The martyrs waiting for God’s judgment are given white robes to wear. (Revelation 6:11) The armies appearing with the Messiah also wear white and clean linen. (Revelation 19:14) The great multitude of the saved in Revelation 7:14 wear robes made white in the red blood of the Lamb. The color makes the point and implies that the color white stands for God’s people made spiritually pure and justified by Jesus’ blood. That means the few in Sardis who were given white robes had been made right and just before God.

In Revelation 3:5, we read - "He who overcomes I will never blot out his name from the book of life." The "overcomer" mentioned in this letter to Sardis is the Believer/Christian. Compare this with 1 John 5:4: "Everyone who is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world--our faith."

In regards to the church of the Laodiceans,

Revelation 3:15 "I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot. I could wish you were cold or hot. 16 So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of My mouth. 17 Because you say, 'I am rich, have become wealthy, and have need of nothing'—and do not know that you are wretched, miserable, poor, blind, and naked— 18 I counsel you to buy from Me gold refined in the fire, that you may be rich; and white garments, that you may be clothed, that the shame of your nakedness may not be revealed; and anoint your eyes with eye salve, that you may see. 19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten. Therefore be zealous and repent. 20 Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me. 21 To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne. - *See 1 John 5:4.

Keep in mind that in various churches, it's not hard to find "nominal Christians/make believers" mixed in with genuine Christians/genuine believers.
I agree not everybody was a failure in those churches, but there was a problem in those churches.
Maybe a majority was a problem in some of those churches.
The candlestick represented the church of Lord.
His church is the people salvation to get to the Lord.
He Places his ministers in the church to preach his gospel. Romans 10:14
It does say the gospel is unto salvation. Romans 1:16
So if that church is taken away from you by the Lord, what would that mean(not worthy people)
If they don't love him he will close down the church and leave them.
They are not keeping the first commandment.
The people are to be the light bearers including the minister.
Who or what is to repent ? How does a church repent if its not the people.
 

Taken

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Encounter Team
Feb 6, 2018
24,505
12,924
113
United States
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Once saved always saved
Has it always existed from the beginning of mankind ?
Did the OT saints have OSAS covering ?

I don't really know how the OSAS believers think on this.
Just thought they believed it happened after Jesus came.
That Jesus changed everything about salvation.

OSAS -

What is the KEY Word in this acronym ?

It is "ONCE".

"ONCE", is the KEY WORD, Revealing what Scripture Teaches...ONCE..."at Such Time" an Individual Becomes "IN Christ"... it IS the Lord God "MAKING" A permanent Forever (KEY Word ALWAYS) , Change, to the Salvation of the WHOLE (body, soul,spirit) in and of OLD Whole Individual, calling that individual, a NEW Creature.

NEVER...in Scripture is it Taught, A "New Creature", can "Again" Be "MADE", their "Old Creature".

Existed from the Beginning...OT men?
Yes...Some in belief in God, and In Gods Word; without them yet knowing, Gods Word would Be Called Yeshua.

Glory to God,
Taken
 

Ezra

Well-Known Member
Dec 27, 2018
2,564
1,314
113
62
Missouri
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
God's words are instruction for us to follow, either way its a sin if you break it
what did God do ith them failing to follow instructions ? A. KILL THEM or B cover there nakedness ? your taking a subject you can not prove
 

Bible_Gazer

Active Member
Mar 7, 2014
417
80
28
Bloomington, Indiana
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
what did God do ith them failing to follow instructions ? A. KILL THEM or B cover there nakedness ? your taking a subject you can not prove
They died, that is proof

They must had lost a covering first and then they got a temporary covering and later a resurrection.
 
Last edited:

Ezra

Well-Known Member
Dec 27, 2018
2,564
1,314
113
62
Missouri
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
They died, that is proof

They must had lost a covering first and then they got a temporary covering and later a resurrection.
you dont even make sense death same up on all humans after the fall ..there is No such thing as a temporary covering . i dont know where you got that at but it aint Bible
 

n2thelight

Well-Known Member
Dec 24, 2006
4,048
785
113
60
Atlanta,Ga
I would like to pose a question to ALL those who say if you sin after being saved you were never really saved.

Question is this ,have any of you sinned since being saved?In other words have you been perfect since???????
 

Paul Christensen

Well-Known Member
Mar 2, 2020
3,068
1,619
113
76
Christchurch
www.personal-communication.org.nz
Faith
Christian
Country
New Zealand
Well either way the church or some people in the church somebody was lukewarm.
If the whole church was lukewarm, then everyone was in trouble.

you got two groups mixed up
Ephesus church needed to repent or lose their candlestick salvation.
Laodicean church saints were lukewarm also needed to repent to save themselves.
So, if you belong to a church and there are those in it who are lukewarm, does that mean that you are tarred and feathered with the same brush?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Eternally Grateful

Bible_Gazer

Active Member
Mar 7, 2014
417
80
28
Bloomington, Indiana
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
you dont even make sense death same up on all humans after the fall ..there is No such thing as a temporary covering . i dont know where you got that at but it aint Bible
They had a covering of God on them before the fall.
They lost something from within to cause them to fear God and hid themselves with leaves.
God gave them a choice covering for salvation if they choose it.
God gave Adam another 930 years, that was a temporary life span.
But they were going to die and had to wait for the Messiah to come
 

Bible_Gazer

Active Member
Mar 7, 2014
417
80
28
Bloomington, Indiana
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
So, if you belong to a church and there are those in it who are lukewarm, does that mean that you are tarred and feathered with the same brush?
As this was written to the Laodicean church Angel(minister).
It seem to be for him but in verse 20 If any man -seem to be to more than one.
I would think that this letter is to rebuke anybody in that church that was in that condition lukewarm.
So no, not everyone is labeled lukewarm if they are hot or cold.

Then again maybe that whole church was lukewarm, if the minister preach that condition and the people followed his ways.
 

Bible_Gazer

Active Member
Mar 7, 2014
417
80
28
Bloomington, Indiana
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Revelation 3:19
19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

In the OSAS belief ?
Why would God correct, beat his children with stern words and punishment ?
My thought is why is this needed if we are OSAS and cannot overcome the so call sin nature ?
 

Paul Christensen

Well-Known Member
Mar 2, 2020
3,068
1,619
113
76
Christchurch
www.personal-communication.org.nz
Faith
Christian
Country
New Zealand
Revelation 3:19
19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

In the OSAS belief ?
Why would God correct, beat his children with stern words and punishment ?
My thought is why is this needed if we are OSAS and cannot overcome the so call sin nature ?
Although the penalty and the power of sin is removed by the finished work of Christ on the cross, the presence of sin is still with us in our mortal flesh. This is why Paul says that he buffets the flesh to keep it subdued. And God leaves just enough guilt for sin to remind us of how easy it is for us to succumb to temptation if we are not sober and vigilant.

That is what Peter says, that we should be sober and vigilant, because the devil goes around like a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour. The guilt that God allows us to have is what we know as conviction of sin, and this makes us run to Christ, confess the sin at God's throne of grace to receive mercy and grace to help in time of need.

But the intense guilt and despair over sin is the condemnation bomb that the devil drops on us. It causes us to think that God does not love us any more and that He has deserted us because we are too sinful. This is the lie of the devil, and it is important that we are able to discern the difference between the conviction of sin that drives us to Christ, and the condemnation bomb of the devil that drives us to discouragement and despair.
 

Ezra

Well-Known Member
Dec 27, 2018
2,564
1,314
113
62
Missouri
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
They had a covering of God on them before the fall.
They lost something from within to cause them to fear God and hid themselves with leaves.
God gave them a choice covering for salvation if they choose it.
God gave Adam another 930 years, that was a temporary life span.
But they were going to die and had to wait for the Messiah to come
you have about half that right ..your going to need to back up what you say with scripture