Rapture Ready For Partial Rapture?

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Enow

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Hi Enow,

Exegetically speaking . . . the Rapture is being snatched away, while Luke 21:36 is fleeing on one's own. That right there is enough to tell me that these are different. I've found the Bible agrees with itself in these tiny little details.

Jesus was prophesying the end of the age to Israel, not the rapture of the church that would not actually be revealed (musterion) until Paul. That also is sufficient to tell me these are not the same. Paul revealed the mystery of the church. It was not revealed before that.

There is more. I like these for their simplicity. Running away is not the same thing as being taken away, so these are different.

Much love!

I am not sure how you can say that is for the end of the great tribulation when that warning would not apply to saints during the great tribulation that would need the mark of the beast t buy and sell in order to even be tempted to surfeit and get drunk and be so overcharged for the cares of this life that you would not want to leave for the King's Supper in Heaven as per Luke 14:15-24 which is what the real cost of discipleship is about when Luke continued, expounding on Jesus's parable by what He said to the multitudes afterwards in Luke 14:25-33. Jesus was not asking His disciples to give up everything and hate their families while living their lives down here. No. This was in regards to the parable in Luke 14:15-24 about being ready to leave their lives & their loved ones down here when Jesus comes as the Bridegroom.

So the parameters of Luke 21:33-36 cannot be a warning to believers during the great tribulation at all since Satan will be waging war on the saints that they will not be TEMPTED to be overcharged with surfeiting and drunkenness and the cares of that life to be ensnared at all during the great tribulation.

So that warning applies to believers in the times we are living now when we do not need the mark of the beast yet to get drunk by nor be overcharged by the cares of this life. So do discern that with Him for the truth in His words because I know I cannot make you see that.
 

Enow

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The verb tenses say something different from this.

Much love!

Paul speaks in regards to the law in how he was under the law for the effects under the law in being a slave to sin. That may seem like present tense to you, but only because Paul is describing himself as he would be under the law before Jesus Christ had delivered Him from sin.

Romans 7:1 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?...
5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death. 6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter. 7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet....14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin. 15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I. 16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good. 17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. 18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. 19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. 20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. 21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. 22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? 25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

So Paul interjected the answer to his question about Jesus Christ delivering Him from that body of death; that bondage to sin and to death, but continued to explain how he was under that law in serving it by mind, but his flesh betrays him being sold under sin to death.

Now Paul goes on to explain the difference between how he was under the law to how he was now since Jesus delivered him from that body of death for why believers should not be carnally minded in walking after the flesh or else they will die.

See how Paul refers to what the law could not do from which he was a slave to sin and to death that Jesus has set Him free from so he can walk after the Spirit. But he points out that some believers may be tempted to use that liberty to walk after the flesh for why he is warning them not to do that.

Romans 8:1There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: 4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. 8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
 

Enow

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Hi Enow,

"If I want to keep overlooking . . ." ?

Wouldn't that be intellectual dishonesty? Is that what you think of me?

Much love!

I just think you are reading what you believe in the scripture and disregarding elements of the truth in His words because you doubt its meaning and application that it cannot be contrary nor opposing what you believe. We are to prove all things by Him, and you may just be in a hurry to reply to postings, assured that you have rightly divided the word of truth in the past, without actually discerning with Him again at that throne of grace.

As far as intellectual dishonesty goes, there are babes in Christ that can only take the milk of His words, while those maturing and mature on certain issues have used the meat of His words for discerning good and evil but that does not mean the mature does it all the time on every issue.

Hence we prophesy in part and know in part.

Only God can cause the increase. Only God can enable the believer to be pruned so he or she can bear more fruit ( John 15:1-2 ). Only the Holy Spirit in believer can confirm the word to those who oppose themselves and know it not.

So, no. I am not going to accuse any one of intellectual dishonesty when we are all growing in the words of the Lord still, as no one is perfect yet, not even Paul and he said so. All I am asking you to do is slow down and discern again with Him at that throne of grace while continuing in this discussion so that at the very least, you can understand why I still believe the way I do when pointing out how that warning cannot apply to believers during the times of the great tribulation. If you still do not see why or how it cannot apply, then we agree to disagree and we leave it to God to show whoever is misapplying His words in Luke 21:33-36.
 

Enow

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You are not engaging the question.

So with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin. There is therefore now no condemnation to them who are in Christ Jesus . . .

This question is impossible to answer without the correct understanding.

"Therefore" shows causal relationship. He spent 4 hours in the noontime sun, therefore he has a sunburn.

"I the LORD change not, therefore you, O Jacob, are not consumed". Why is Jacob not consumed? Because the Lord does not change.

"So with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin. There is therefore now no condemnation to them who are in Christ Jesus . . ."

The questions becomes, what is the Therefore, there for?

What is the causal relationship?

with the mind, I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin. There is therefore . . .

Much love!

See post #402
 

marks

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I am not sure how you can say that is for the end of the great tribulation when that warning would not apply to saints during the great tribulation that would need the mark of the beast t buy and sell in order to even be tempted to surfeit and get drunk and be so overcharged for the cares of this life that you would not want to leave for the King's Supper in Heaven as per Luke 14:15-24 which is what the real cost of discipleship is about when Luke continued, expounding on Jesus's parable by what He said to the multitudes afterwards in Luke 14:25-33. Jesus was not asking His disciples to give up everything and hate their families while living their lives down here. No. This was in regards to the parable in Luke 14:15-24 about being ready to leave their lives & their loved ones down here when Jesus comes as the Bridegroom.

So the parameters of Luke 21:33-36 cannot be a warning to believers during the great tribulation at all since Satan will be waging war on the saints that they will not be TEMPTED to be overcharged with surfeiting and drunkenness and the cares of that life to be ensnared at all during the great tribulation.

So that warning applies to believers in the times we are living now when we do not need the mark of the beast yet to get drunk by nor be overcharged by the cares of this life. So do discern that with Him for the truth in His words because I know I cannot make you see that.
I'm looking at the words used, and I'm holding to what those words mean.

There are quite a number of suppositions in your views that I don't see being supported in Scripture.

You believe the wedding feast of the Lamb is in heaven, and with the gentile church. Please show me that in Scripture, because I can't find it.

That the vessels of honor and dishonor applies to the eternal state. I can't find that either.

There are more, but these are a good start, if you can show me where I can find these. I'm aware of the relevant passages, but they don't say this.

I think the closer we look at the text the more this appears.

Much love!
 

marks

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I just think you are reading what you believe in the scripture and disregarding elements of the truth in His words because you doubt its meaning and application that it cannot be contrary nor opposing what you believe. We are to prove all things by Him, and you may just be in a hurry to reply to postings, assured that you have rightly divided the word of truth in the past, without actually discerning with Him again at that throne of grace.
If this is your opinion so be it, and I'm not interested in spending my time here making a personal defense. Maybe we all have our heads in the sand. Maybe we are all just posting as fast as we can. Maybe who knows what, and so what?

What does the Bible Actually Say. That's all that matters to me.

All I am asking you to do is slow down and discern again with Him at that throne of grace while continuing in this discussion so that at the very least, you can understand why I still believe the way I do when pointing out how that warning cannot apply to believers during the times of the great tribulation.

Let's do slow down a bit!

Let's focus on individual passages until we are either agreed, or that we identify what words or sentences we understand differently, and why we understand them that way.

I'm still looking for Anyone to tell me . . .

There is therefore now no condemnation to them who are in Christ Jesus . . .

Therefore shows the reason for the subsequent statement is given before the "therefore". I've inherited from my rich uncle, therefore I am receiving a check. Red Ryder changed their design, therefore future wagons will be blue.

With the mind I serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin. There is therefore now no condemnation . . .

Therefore shows causal relationship between what goes before, and what comes after. This, therefore, that.

Here, This, is, "With the mind I serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin,", and, because this is true, the following is true, therefore, there is "no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus."

How do you explain this?

No one has!

I can.

Much love!
 

Enow

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Is any saved believer ALWAYS running their race?

Those who hope in Him being their Good Shepherd to help them to abide in Him & His words to follow Him, yes. It is a spirit thing; a reconciled relationship of trust with God through Jesus Christ. Do you believe Him to keep you from falling and to present you faultless or not?

We do see these differently!

:)

I guess so. All I can say is if there is any sin going on still in your life, confess it and lean on Him to help you not do it again, thereby hoping in Him to walk in the light in fellowship with the Father & the Son.

Oftentimes than not, it is a battlefield of the mind where it begins, but we are to trust Him to help us be aware of that which we are thinking since He knows what we are thinking and ask Him for help to cast it down and/or to think on something else; good things, or the things above in Heaven where our treasure is supposed to be for where our heart is at.

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do. 14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession. 15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. 16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

Psalm 19:12 Who can understand his errors? cleanse thou me from secret faults. 13 Keep back thy servant also from presumptuous sins; let them not have dominion over me: then shall I be upright, and I shall be innocent from the great transgression. 14 Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O Lord, my strength, and my redeemer.

2 Corinthians 10:4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;) 5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ; 6 And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.

Philippians 4:6 Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God. 7 And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus. 8 Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things. 9 Those things, which ye have both learned, and received, and heard, and seen in me, do: and the God of peace shall be with you.

It's not like I sing that song or pray every minute of every day for Him to help me. It is about believing Him to do His work in me to help me to follow Him by the same grace of God we have been saved by but by faith in Jesus Christ as our Good Shepherd & Friend. So believe in Him today to help you run that race in laying aside every weight & sin so that by abiding in His words, you are His disciples where you will bear fruit & your joy be full.

 

marks

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See post #402
I can't find anything in that post that addresses my question. Maybe I'm missing something, and you simplify your answer for me. Why is it "therefore" there is no condemnation? What is said prior to "therefore" that is the reason that there now no condemnation, and what exactly is that reason?

Much love!
 

marks

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It's not like I sing that song or pray every minute of every day for Him to help me.
Actually, this is what I think we should be doing. Pray without ceasing. I ask for help, for understanding, for wisdom, all the time. And God's promises are sure.

My Father is here with me, and I prefer to focus on that fact at all times. Singing to yourself in songs . . . I like to have carefully chosen edifying music, teaching, or just plain Audio Bible on whenever I'm listening to something. That's what I listen to.

Not cable. No dish. No feed from Hollywood into my brain!

The best way to abide in Christ that I've found is to make Him my singlemost active pursuit. People sometimes seem to think that this gets in the way of our day to day stuff, but I find the opposite. The battle IS in the mind, I think. So I make it a point to fill my mind with Him.

Much love!
 

marks

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So do discern that with Him for the truth in His words because I know I cannot make you see that.
HI Enow,

To be perfectly clear, the inner assurance I look for is when I see something clearly stated in the Bible, and I can harmonize it with everything else I know, and no matter how deeply I look into the overall themes, or into the syntax and use of the original language, there are no conflicts.

The example of an active voice "escape" and a passive voice "caught up" illustrate this. His Word Is Truth, therefore I pay strict attention to every last tiny little bit.

Much love!
 

Enow

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I'm looking at the words used, and I'm holding to what those words mean.

There are quite a number of suppositions in your views that I don't see being supported in Scripture.

You believe the wedding feast of the Lamb is in heaven, and with the gentile church. Please show me that in Scripture, because I can't find it.

Compare Luke 13:24-30 of the sitting down with O.T. saints with Luke 12:40-49 for why saints in iniquity will be cut off as there is a sit down with the O.T. saints in Heaven; hence the dead shall rise first... etc. and etc.

Then compare Luke 21:33-36 with Luke 14:15-24 and even Luke 17:26-37 about how those taken were to escape a calamity and yet the warning was to be not like Lot's wife to be ensnared by the cares of this life to not want to leave it. That is the whole point of trying to save your lives down here when it is going to be destroyed soon enough, thus losing their lives, their possessions, their treasures, and their left behind loved ones anyway.

That the vessels of honor and dishonor applies to the eternal state. I can't find that either.

There are more, but these are a good start, if you can show me where I can find these. I'm aware of the relevant passages, but they don't say this.

I think the closer we look at the text the more this appears.

Much love!

Discern it with Him. If the call to depart from iniquity and when they do that, they become vessels unto honor as per 2 Timothy 2:21, then what happens to those who do not depart from iniquity? They are the vessels unto dishonor presently and when the Bridegroom comes, permanently.

Any iniquity is a work that denies Him; Titus 1:16 for why He will deny them as the Bridegroom; 2 Timothy 2:12 But even in regards to former believers, He still abides; 2 Timothy 2:13 so that means those left behind as castaways are the vessels unto dishonor in His House for not being ready. Luke 12:40-49

There is the first fruits of the resurrection... then there are they that are Christ's at His coming. Those resurrected after the great tribulation are not going to be anything like the firstfruits of the resurrection, because the prodigal son gave up his inheritance for wild living, and even though he is still son, he can never be that vessel unto honor in His House to have participated in the firstfruits of the resurrection. They will be forever vessels unto dishonor but still in His House as per 2 Timothy 2:20.

For believers that want that eternal glory to be that vessel unto honor in His House to be like the angels that never die nor marry, now is the time to go before that throne of grace for help by trusting Jesus Christ, hoping in Him to be their Good Shepherd to help them get ready as found abiding in Him and not in any iniquity that denies Him as well as help to be willing to go in these latter days where commitments and promises binds believers to earth in feeling an obligation to stay for those left behind, ( that being overcharged part for the cares of this life ) as well as loving your life down here with your heart on the treasures down here that you will not want to leave it when the Bridegroom comes. Those are all real snares for believers.
 

Enow

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I can't find anything in that post that addresses my question. Maybe I'm missing something, and you simplify your answer for me. Why is it "therefore" there is no condemnation? What is said prior to "therefore" that is the reason that there now no condemnation, and what exactly is that reason?

Much love!

If you are missing something, then pray about it and expect an answer from Him soon, brother.
 

Enow

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Actually, this is what I think we should be doing. Pray without ceasing. I ask for help, for understanding, for wisdom, all the time. And God's promises are sure.

I am sure no one constantly pray as if it is one long prayer, but pray without ceasing is how I apply that to mean keep relating to God by & don't stop as if to put that reconcile relationship with God on the back shelf to "live life".

My Father is here with me, and I prefer to focus on that fact at all times. Singing to yourself in songs . . . I like to have carefully chosen edifying music, teaching, or just plain Audio Bible on whenever I'm listening to something. That's what I listen to.

Not cable. No dish. No feed from Hollywood into my brain!

A lot better than what I am doing even though He has kept me from allowing any to have power or dominion over me. I still do not believe in the evolution theory and He helps me to recognize what is sin and when what I am watching is influencing me to to turn to Him to cast it down.

It is hard to find anything "good" anywhere, even in Christian entertainment where we all have to be on guard even more against apostasy in it.

And yes, even in hymnals in the pews of churches, so be aware of that when the hymnals address the Trinity as if that is His name, or addresses the Holy Spirit in worship when the only way to honor the Father is by honoring the Son. John 5:22-23 & Philippians 2:5-13

So we have to trust Him as our Good Shepherd to be on guard not just in the world around us but especially those with Christian labels on it.

The best way to abide in Christ that I've found is to make Him my singlemost active pursuit. People sometimes seem to think that this gets in the way of our day to day stuff, but I find the opposite. The battle IS in the mind, I think. So I make it a point to fill my mind with Him.

Much love!

That is good. Trust Him to keep you ready to go and be willing to go because you may find some of your Christian loved ones left behind for which you may be overcharged in being tempted to stay behind because of your love and care for them when the Bridegroom comes. Trust Jesus to help you let go and leave your loved ones in His hands. I am trusting Him to do the same for me. Luke 14:25-33
 

Enow

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HI Enow,

To be perfectly clear, the inner assurance I look for is when I see something clearly stated in the Bible, and I can harmonize it with everything else I know, and no matter how deeply I look into the overall themes, or into the syntax and use of the original language, there are no conflicts.

The example of an active voice "escape" and a passive voice "caught up" illustrate this. His Word Is Truth, therefore I pay strict attention to every last tiny little bit.

Much love!

I trust Him to help me see the truth in His words. My confidence is in Him, not in me since wisdom comes only from the Lord.
 
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marks

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I trust Him to help me see the truth in His words. My confidence is in Him, not in me since wisdom comes only from the Lord.
But don't we need to know, and hold to, what those particular words are, and what they mean? Did God mean one thing, but say something different? I don't think either of us believe that.

Much love!
 

marks

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I am sure no one constantly pray as if it is one long prayer, but pray without ceasing is how I apply that to mean keep relating to God by & don't stop as if to put that reconcile relationship with God on the back shelf to "live life".
There was a pastor some years ago that put it something like this . . .

He said . . .

Remember when you were a teenager, and you'd call your girlfriend, and lay there in bed talking late into the night, and the she'd say, don't hang up th phone, just lay it on the pillow next to you, and even if you fall asleep, we're still connected?

OK, I never did that . . .

He went on, prayer is like that. You never have to hang up the phone. And it's true.

He is here, with me, with you, for the reason that He loves us. He made us so that we could live in His presence. We live unto the Lord. All our life, everything we do, that we think, it's all right in front of Him, because He is here with me.

As I'm writing this post, my attention is on the computer, and on the song I'm listening to . . . "your voice is calling calling us to life . . .", and on my heavenly Father, Who stands with me, Who has, I think, instructed me to delete a half-dozen posts so far today before actually posting them. Or in other cases just get rid of a sentence here or there.

I'm very much listening for Him to let me know what I should write. And I believe He does, although that belief doesn't make it true. It's only true if it is in fact true regardless of what I think, and really, only Jesus will be the fit judge of these things.

God is with us. I believe the entire point of this creation is that God wants us to live with Him, in an active way, at all times.

Jesus said all His disciples would leave Him, but He would not be alone, as the Father was with Him.

So I ask myself . . . in what way was the Father with Jesus so that even those everyone left Him alone, He would not actually be alone?

Because His relationship with His Father was as real, as active, as personal, as meaningful, more so, as his relationships with the people who were with Him. And I think this is what our Father wants to have with us.

Much love!
 

marks

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If you are missing something, then pray about it and expect an answer from Him soon, brother.
I'm trying to be polite . . .

:)

It's not there, and I challenge you to actually show these things from the text of Scripture. I realize the arguments you are offering, but unless 'it is written' . . .

Much love!
 

CharismaticLady

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Where is strength to flee? There isn't. They are both protection by God.
Hi CL,

Here is from Scripture4all.org, from Luke 21:

View attachment 8834

"To be escaping" here is an "active voice verb", meaning, this action is being performed by the person. The person flees.

And from 1 Thessalonians 4:
View attachment 8835
"Shall be being snatched away" is a passive voice verb. This is done to the person, the person does not do this themself.

These are not the same thing.

Edit to add . . . the Majority MS shows as above, worthy to escape (flee), while the Alexandrian shows 'strength to escape'.
Much love!

Luke 21:
34 “But take heed to yourselves, lest your hearts be weighed down with carousing, drunkenness, and cares of this life, and that Day come on you unexpectedly. 35 For it will come as a snare on all those who dwell on the face of the whole earth. 36 Watch therefore, and pray always that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man.”

Worthy to escape is not the same as strength in your own power to flee. The righteous are worthy having escaped the carousing, drunkenness, etc. It is the same as 2 Peter 1:4b "having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust."
 

marks

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Compare Luke 13:24-30 of the sitting down with O.T. saints with Luke 12:40-49 for why saints in iniquity will be cut off as there is a sit down with the O.T. saints in Heaven; hence the dead shall rise first... etc. and etc.

Then compare Luke 21:33-36 with Luke 14:15-24 and even Luke 17:26-37 about how those taken were to escape a calamity and yet the warning was to be not like Lot's wife to be ensnared by the cares of this life to not want to leave it. That is the whole point of trying to save your lives down here when it is going to be destroyed soon enough, thus losing their lives, their possessions, their treasures, and their left behind loved ones anyway.



Discern it with Him. If the call to depart from iniquity and when they do that, they become vessels unto honor as per 2 Timothy 2:21, then what happens to those who do not depart from iniquity? They are the vessels unto dishonor presently and when the Bridegroom comes, permanently.

Any iniquity is a work that denies Him; Titus 1:16 for why He will deny them as the Bridegroom; 2 Timothy 2:12 But even in regards to former believers, He still abides; 2 Timothy 2:13 so that means those left behind as castaways are the vessels unto dishonor in His House for not being ready. Luke 12:40-49

There is the first fruits of the resurrection... then there are they that are Christ's at His coming. Those resurrected after the great tribulation are not going to be anything like the firstfruits of the resurrection, because the prodigal son gave up his inheritance for wild living, and even though he is still son, he can never be that vessel unto honor in His House to have participated in the firstfruits of the resurrection. They will be forever vessels unto dishonor but still in His House as per 2 Timothy 2:20.

For believers that want that eternal glory to be that vessel unto honor in His House to be like the angels that never die nor marry, now is the time to go before that throne of grace for help by trusting Jesus Christ, hoping in Him to be their Good Shepherd to help them get ready as found abiding in Him and not in any iniquity that denies Him as well as help to be willing to go in these latter days where commitments and promises binds believers to earth in feeling an obligation to stay for those left behind, ( that being overcharged part for the cares of this life ) as well as loving your life down here with your heart on the treasures down here that you will not want to leave it when the Bridegroom comes. Those are all real snares for believers.
One of the things you have to deal with is Paul's writing that he, Paul, was revealing mysteries, musterion, which means something that is hidden, that you can not know without it being revealed to you.

Behold, I reveal to you a mystery . . . this mean, look, I'm revealing something that has been hidden up to now, something you could not have known, but now I'm telling you. This is how Paul spoke of the gentile church, AFTER the gospel was no longer sent to the Jews, but was sent directly to the gentiles.

When you look to the teachings and prophecies in the Gospels, and apply them to the gentile church, this is the issue. It's making out that the church is prophesied and taught about, while later, Paul calls this a mystery, meaning, it had not yet been revealed.

So how is it that Jesus would be teaching and prophesying what God would later tell us had not been revealed? Again, this is something that is written in clear words.

Ephesians 3
1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,
2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

Much love!
 

Enow

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There was a pastor some years ago that put it something like this . . .

He said . . .

Remember when you were a teenager, and you'd call your girlfriend, and lay there in bed talking late into the night, and the she'd say, don't hang up th phone, just lay it on the pillow next to you, and even if you fall asleep, we're still connected?

OK, I never did that . . .

He went on, prayer is like that. You never have to hang up the phone. And it's true.

Right, since He is always with us, and knows what is going on before we ask, but the point of asking in prayer is to know you had prayed for it so when you get an answer to that prayer, you can give the Father thanks in Jesus's name for known answers to prayers.

He is here, with me, with you, for the reason that He loves us. He made us so that we could live in His presence. We live unto the Lord. All our life, everything we do, that we think, it's all right in front of Him, because He is here with me.

As I'm writing this post, my attention is on the computer, and on the song I'm listening to . . . "your voice is calling calling us to life . . .", and on my heavenly Father, Who stands with me, Who has, I think, instructed me to delete a half-dozen posts so far today before actually posting them. Or in other cases just get rid of a sentence here or there.

I'm very much listening for Him to let me know what I should write. And I believe He does, although that belief doesn't make it true. It's only true if it is in fact true regardless of what I think, and really, only Jesus will be the fit judge of these things.

God is with us. I believe the entire point of this creation is that God wants us to live with Him, in an active way, at all times.

Jesus said all His disciples would leave Him, but He would not be alone, as the Father was with Him.

So I ask myself . . . in what way was the Father with Jesus so that even those everyone left Him alone, He would not actually be alone?

Because His relationship with His Father was as real, as active, as personal, as meaningful, more so, as his relationships with the people who were with Him. And I think this is what our Father wants to have with us.

Much love!

That is why I trust Him to cause the increase and why His yoke is easy and His burden is light because He is Lord and He is the One ministering. So I trust Him to help me not to argue, but to hope in Him to share what He wants to edify believers by in His words.
 
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