Rapture Ready For Partial Rapture?

Enow said:

Paul speaks in regards to the law in how he was under the law for the effects under the law in being a slave to sin. That may seem like present tense to you, but only because Paul is describing himself as he would be under the law before Jesus Christ had delivered Him from sin.

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It's not "what it seems to me" that I'm talking about. It's not that it "seems like present tense", Paul actually writes with the present tense.

"I was alive with without the law at one time, but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died. And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death."

These are all Aorist tense, what we would understand as a simple past tense.

"Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that lives in me."

These are present tense verbs, meaning just that. This decribed Paul's "present".

In the one case, speaking of his past, he uses past tense. Then later, he uses present tense. Why should we not understand them as present tense?

Much love!

Enow said:

Right, since He is always with us, and knows what is going on before we ask, but the point of asking in prayer is to know you had prayed for it so when you get an answer to that prayer, you can give the Father thanks in Jesus's name for known answers to prayers.

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Well, yes, I'm not going to argue with that of course. But for me, prayer is sharing my life with my Father and Friend and, well, Lover, and enjoying His presence in my life. Prayer is so much more than asking for things. Sometimes it's just being happy together.

Much love!

Enow said:

you may find some of your Christian loved ones left behind for which you may be overcharged in being tempted to stay behind because of your love and care for them when the Bridegroom comes. Trust Jesus to help you let go and leave your loved ones in His hands.

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We are miles apart on this.

In understanding we are justified by faith in Jesus - an exclusive statement, not, we are justified by faith and . . . - in that we are justified by faith in Jesus, the rest becomes about sanctification within this life, then we realize that what we do does not affect who we are in Him, and who we will be in the ages to come.

We have differences in rewards, in glory, in service, in the ages to come. These things are all taught in the Bible. But not differences in status, such as one being more accepted by God than another. No "saints in outer darkness", no "saints of dishonor", these things make justification partial, with the balance being made up by us.

Much love!

Enow said:

A lot better than what I am doing even though He has kept me from allowing any to have power or dominion over me. I still do not believe in the evolution theory and He helps me to recognize what is sin and when what I am watching is influencing me to to turn to Him to cast it down.

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I was frankly amazed at what a difference it made in my mind to shut off the TV. Within 2 weeks I started realizing how much happier I was. In about 2 months I was starting to realize how profoundly my world view had been affected.

I advise to all to be very careful about what we allow into our minds.

Much love!

CharismaticLady said:

Worthy to escape is not the same as strength in your own power to flee.

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In that passage . . .

The Majority Manuscript and the Textus Receptus show "worthy to escape", while the Critical Text shows "have strength to escape". In both cases, "escape" is "to escape, to flee", and is written in the active voice, the one fleeing is doing it.

In 1 Thessalonians 4, "caught up", harpadzo, is written in the passive voice, the one being caught up is not doing it, it's being done to them.

Whichever manuscript you are going by, escape is still the same, active voice, so it's not the same things as the other passage, caught up, which is passive voice.

Much love!

Enow said:

I still maintain that the saints left behind are still saved but disqualified for how they built on that foundation

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This is what 1 Corinthians 3 is about. That which we use to build that isn't the right stuff is burned up. Nothing there about a partial rapture, which again, flatly disagrees with the wording of the verse, we who are alive and remain, which is inclusive.

Much love!

Enow said:

Thank you for the testimony. Pray for me that the Lord will lead me to do the same and not just guard me against what sows to the flesh & keep me from the LGBTQ's campaign to make me compromise with social values and the corrupt political correctness they are trying to brainwash us with.

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Heavenly Father, I do pray for Enow that you would guide him in what he surrounds himself with, to have discernment and wisdom towards choosing as you choose, and for me also Father, that I too would keep my choices according to what you desire for me. And Father, I pray that none of us would fear what is happening in this world! Thank you for making us yours, and for giving us a new mind, and I pray You continue to renew our minds day by day, ever increasing, so that we may love as you desire we should love. I pray in Jesus' Name!

Much love!

Enow said:

But 1 Corinthians 3:15-17 where verses 16-17 the physical body is destroyed ; hence death, should be tied in when God does judged the church of Thyatira for not repenting of their "spiritual fornication" for why they were cast into the bed of the great tribulation to be judged by their works with death in Revelation 2:21-23

1 Corinthians 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. 16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? 17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

Revelation 2:21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not. 22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds. 23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

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Looking at the pronouns in the letter to Thyatira, we see that God addresses "you", you allow that woman Jezebel, then the pronoun changes to "her", as many as commit fornication with her, I will cast "them", and then back to "you", hold on to what you have.

Jesus addresses His church, and speaks to it about those within it, those who will be cast into tribulation unless they repent. And then Jesus addresses His church again telling it, you, hold fast to what you have.

Jesus is not saying here that He will cast His church into the Great Tribulation. He's not saying He will cast His church into this particular tribulation, if you see this as applying historically as well as prophetically.

You wrote that in vs. 17 this is physical death. However, instead of using a word for death, or to die, God uses the same word just used, which is to corrupt or destroy, put them both together and that carries the meaning fairly well, I think.

If any corrupt/destroy the temple of God, him shall God corrupt/destroy.

The flow of the passage to me is more like, Here's the foundation, and everyone is building on it. But what are you building with? Something that lasts? Or something that's going to be for ashes? There are all these divisions, as if we're somehow different. It's not supposed to be that way. Don't you know that God's going to corrupt/destroy those who corrupt/destroy the temple, all of you?

I see this as a warning to build right, and that materials shall be judged, but I don't see two types of eternal states for the believers.

Much love!

marks said:

In that passage . . .

The Majority Manuscript and the Textus Receptus show "worthy to escape", while the Critical Text shows "have strength to escape". In both cases, "escape" is "to escape, to flee", and is written in the active voice, the one fleeing is doing it.

In 1 Thessalonians 4, "caught up", harpadzo, is written in the passive voice, the one being caught up is not doing it, it's being done to them.

Whichever manuscript you are going by, escape is still the same, active voice, so it's not the same things as the other passage, caught up, which is passive voice.

Much love!

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The context of both is regarding sin. The Holy Spirit gives us strength, power, the ability to resist, to escape, freedom. I know you like to dissect the Greek words, but I still say context is key.

CharismaticLady said:

The context of both is regarding sin. The Holy Spirit gives us strength, power, the ability to resist, to escape, freedom. I know you like to dissect the Greek words, but I still say context is key.

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Yes, but what we're talking about here is "escape, and stand before the Son of Man" as relates, or not, to the rapture.

I believe we need to look at the words and their grammatical forms, the clauses and sentences they make, the paragraphs and what they mean, and how that fits into what's around it, and what is in the rest of the Bible.

Any understanding of the overall meaning of the passage will, I think, agree with the finest detail within the passage, as well as harmonizing fully with the rest of Scripture.

Much love!

marks said:

Yes, but what we're talking about here is "escape, and stand before the Son of Man" as relates, or not, to the rapture.

I believe we need to look at the words and their grammatical forms, the clauses and sentences they make, the paragraphs and what they mean, and how that fits into what's around it, and what is in the rest of the Bible.

Any understanding of the overall meaning of the passage will, I think, agree with the finest detail within the passage, as well as harmonizing fully with the rest of Scripture.

Much love!

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We are also talking about "worthy." I gather you believe in the pre-trib rapture, but who are those who come out of the Great Tribulation in Revelation 7. Weren't they Christians already going into the GT?

The Post-Trib Theological Society had to cancel its monthly meeting due to the unexplained disappearance of half its membership including the Secretary and the Treasurer.

marks said:

In that passage . . .

The Majority Manuscript and the Textus Receptus show "worthy to escape", while the Critical Text shows "have strength to escape". In both cases, "escape" is "to escape, to flee", and is written in the active voice, the one fleeing is doing it.

In 1 Thessalonians 4, "caught up", harpadzo, is written in the passive voice, the one being caught up is not doing it, it's being done to them.

Whichever manuscript you are going by, escape is still the same, active voice, so it's not the same things as the other passage, caught up, which is passive voice.
Much love!

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Escape all these things?
KJV Luke 21:34-36 Take heed, yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with the surfeit and cares of this life, so that the Day comes upon you unawares. For as a snare, it will come on all those that dwell on the face of the whole earth. Watch, ye, therefore and pray always that you may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass and so stand before the Son of Man.

NIV Be careful or your hearts will be weighed down with dissipation and the anxieties and that Day will close on you unexpectedly, like a trap. For it will come upon all those who live on the face of the whole earth. Be always on the watch and pray that you may be able to escape all that is about to happen and that you may be able to stand before the Son of Man.

NET Be on your guard, so that your hearts are not weighed down with dissipation and the worries of this life and that Day close down on you like a trap. For it will overtake all who live on the face of the earth. But stay alert at all times, praying that you may have the strength to escape all these things that must happen and to stand before the Son of Man.

REB Be on your guard, do not let your minds be dulled by dissipation and worldly cares, so that the great Day catches you suddenly, like a trap. For that Day will come upon everyone, the whole world over. Be on the alert, praying at all times for the strength to pass through all that is coming and to stand in the presence of the Son of Man.

This interesting Bible passage requires careful examination. It is obvious that it refers to the great Day of the Lord’s vengeance and wrath – the next prophesied event, then eventually, how we will stand in the Presence of Jesus.

We are informed that ALL who live on the earth will experience this coming Day. Only those who are ‘accounted worthy’ or ‘have the strength’, will ‘pass (safely) through’ or ‘escape all these things’, ‘that shall come to pass’ or ‘that must happen’.

So, this great Day of vengeance and wrath, will happen and judging by the current world situation, especially in the Middle East, that may be quite soon.

This Day ‘will come upon everyone on earth’, so it is incorrect to say that it is possible to ‘escape all these things’. We will not be ‘raptured’, or taken to a ‘place of safety’ on that Day. We are told to pray for strength and stay alert during this terrifying time. Before it happens, in the short time that we have left of the present dispensation, we ‘must not let worldly cares weigh us down’, so that the Day does not catch us without fore warning and unprepared. If you know what is coming, you are not shocked and terrified, you make preparations, you stay calm, trusting in God to keep you safe. Isaiah 30:15
Therefore the REB gives the correct translation.

To recap: many prophesies speak of this great and terrible Day of the Lord’s vengeance and wrath, which will come suddenly and unexpectedly upon the whole world. What best fits the descriptions?

Nuclear explosions? No, because even a large bomb only destroys up to a certain radius.

Comet strike? Possible, as that would cause worldwide effects. This will happen during the Tribulation period. Revelation 8:8-11.

Coronal mass ejection? Yes, a massive CME fits all the prophecies and does not leave radiation.

Isaiah 30:26a....the sun will shine with seven times its usual brightness.....

No other explanation that a CME can be inferred from that prophecy. But then;

Isaiah 30:26b... on the Day the Lord heals His people....

The promise is given that on this Day, the Lord will save and protect His righteous people.

Joel 3:16 The Lord roars from Zion and thunders from Jerusalem, so that the heaven and the earth shudder, but He is a refuge for His people, a defense for the Israelites. [His faithful people]