The Truth of Genesis

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Justadude

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About the same way that you know.
I doubt it. This is why these "debates" are so boring and stale. Creationists like to say things like there's not a shred of evidence for macroevolution, but as soon as you start getting questioned, the squirming starts. Why can't you just give a helpful answer to a simple question?
 

Paul Christensen

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I doubt it. This is why these "debates" are so boring and stale. Creationists like to say things like there's not a shred of evidence for macroevolution, but as soon as you start getting questioned, the squirming starts. Why can't you just give a helpful answer to a simple question?
Well, it seems that you ask a question, and when someone gives an answer, you just respond with another question, and this happens repeatedly. That's why people get frustrated with you.
 

Justadude

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Well, it seems that you ask a question, and when someone gives an answer, you just respond with another question, and this happens repeatedly. That's why people get frustrated with you.
Let's change that. Here's my question: How do you know there's not a single shred of evidence for macroevolution?
 

Justadude

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They are not accurate
Here's the situation. Scientists all over the world say they are. They use dating tools all the time. They test them under all types of circumstances. They publish their results in papers where they describe in intricate detail what they did, how they did it, what the results were, and what conclusions they drew. They even date objects of known age to test their assumptions and methods.

On the other hand some anonymous person on a Christian forum says they're not accurate.

if you want to believe they are that’s fine
I do. See my comment above if you want to understand why.
 

Justadude

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I know because there isn't. That's why it remains a theory and not a solid scientific law.
Your reply brings me to mind of what I was discussing with @Enow earlier. I was that kid who always asked questions. Lots of questions! In our church that was seen as a negative trait. Even when church leaders would engage me I always came away with the impression that they didn't like how I questioned them on everything. That, plus how their answers were often to have faith, pray about it, or let the holy spirit guide me is a big part of what turned me away from Christianity.

In about middle school I started getting interested in science. I started reading lots of books and science magazines. A lot of times I'd have a question about something I'd read. So I'd look up the references at the library and most of the time the papers had full explanations of how they did their work and how the results led to their conclusions. It was so transparent, I loved it! Then when I got a little older I started meeting scientists, and when I asked them questions they'd do their best to answer, and when they didn't know they'd be honest and say "I don't know". It was so refreshing!

Your reply to my question and @Eternally Grateful 's reply to the article on radiometric dating from a Christian scientist takes me back to the days of our pastor and his "just have faith" answers. You know there isn't evidence because you know. EG says "I don't agree" and stops there.

That's a big reason why I've never been a Christian.
 

Eternally Grateful

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Here's the situation. Scientists all over the world say they are. They use dating tools all the time. They test them under all types of circumstances. They publish their results in papers where they describe in intricate detail what they did, how they did it, what the results were, and what conclusions they drew. They even date objects of known age to test their assumptions and methods.

On the other hand some anonymous person on a Christian forum says they're not accurate.


I do. See my comment above if you want to understand why.
Here is the thing

no one was around 6000 years ago. So at best they can GUESS how things were

if someone says they KNOW they are wrong

like I said if you want to believe it. Feel free

but me? Inland many others. We will not blindly follow things which can not be proven just because a few people who have education says i
 

Paul Christensen

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Your reply brings me to mind of what I was discussing with @Enow earlier. I was that kid who always asked questions. Lots of questions! In our church that was seen as a negative trait. Even when church leaders would engage me I always came away with the impression that they didn't like how I questioned them on everything. That, plus how their answers were often to have faith, pray about it, or let the holy spirit guide me is a big part of what turned me away from Christianity.

In about middle school I started getting interested in science. I started reading lots of books and science magazines. A lot of times I'd have a question about something I'd read. So I'd look up the references at the library and most of the time the papers had full explanations of how they did their work and how the results led to their conclusions. It was so transparent, I loved it! Then when I got a little older I started meeting scientists, and when I asked them questions they'd do their best to answer, and when they didn't know they'd be honest and say "I don't know". It was so refreshing!

Your reply to my question and @Eternally Grateful 's reply to the article on radiometric dating from a Christian scientist takes me back to the days of our pastor and his "just have faith" answers. You know there isn't evidence because you know. EG says "I don't agree" and stops there.

That's a big reason why I've never been a Christian.
Of course the scientific theories of what might have probably happened look very attractive and plausible with all the pretty pictures and diagrams. Much more attractive than just black print in a book that says, "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth", with no pretty pictures or diagrams to accompany it.

I know why you don't want to be a Christian, if you are willing to be truly honest. If you fully accept that there is a real and living God, then you have to believe that at some point you have to be accountable to Him in the way you are living your life. But, you may not want that because you want to be free to choose for yourself what is appropriate or inappropriate for you, and you don't want anyone else to cause you to have to account for the decisions you make in life. So, saying you don't really know whether God really exists or not, you can continue being your own "god" without the expectation that one day you might have to stand before a holy God and explain your decisions.

Am I right, or am I right?
 

Justadude

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no one was around 6000 years ago. So at best they can GUESS how things were
Forensic scientists weren't there when the crime happened, but I don't think they're just guessing when they reach their conclusions.

if someone says they KNOW they are wrong
I'll let actual scientists decide what they know.

like I said if you want to believe it. Feel free

but me? Inland many others. We will not blindly follow things which can not be proven just because a few people who have education says i
What drew me to science was how no one ever answered my questions with anything like "because I say so". Showing their work is a major part of what they do.

Christian leaders however regularly gave me "because I say so" type answers, much like the replies from Christians I've gotten here.

So I think your assessment is backwards.
 

Justadude

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Of course the scientific theories of what might have probably happened look very attractive and plausible with all the pretty pictures and diagrams. Much more attractive than just black print in a book that says, "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth", with no pretty pictures or diagrams to accompany it.
It's way more than that though. The science material I read had details on top of details and was extremely transparent. But you're right in how much of what I got from Christians was "it's in the Bible", which I never found satisfying.

I know why you don't want to be a Christian, if you are willing to be truly honest. If you fully accept that there is a real and living God, then you have to believe that at some point you have to be accountable to Him in the way you are living your life. But, you may not want that because you want to be free to choose for yourself what is appropriate or inappropriate for you, and you don't want anyone else to cause you to have to account for the decisions you make in life. So, saying you don't really know whether God really exists or not, you can continue being your own "god" without the expectation that one day you might have to stand before a holy God and explain your decisions.

Am I right, or am I right?
Some of my Christian friends have said the same thing to me. It's funny when I point out that when it comes to lifestyle, I don't live any differently than they do, except that they go to Church. Other than that we all live just about the same. If I converted tomorrow I wouldn't have to stop doing anything I'm doing now.

That's why your argument doesn't persuade me.
 

Paul Christensen

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Forensic scientists weren't there when the crime happened, but I don't think they're just guessing when they reach their conclusions.


I'll let actual scientists decide what they know.


What drew me to science was how no one ever answered my questions with anything like "because I say so". Showing their work is a major part of what they do.

Christian leaders however regularly gave me "because I say so" type answers, much like the replies from Christians I've gotten here.

So I think your assessment is backwards.
If you go to the woods and see bear tracks heading away from you, don't be certain that he is heading that way. He could be walking backwards and is behind you ready to pounce and have you for lunch!
 

Eternally Grateful

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Forensic scientists weren't there when the crime happened, but I don't think they're just guessing when they reach their conclusions.
Forensic science is based on known proven things which have been witnessed before

once again. No one was alive 6000 years ago. Apples and oranges

I'll let actual scientists decide what they know.

you will Let scientists you agree with....it’s ok your aloud
What drew me to science was how no one ever answered my questions with anything like "because I say so". Showing their work is a major part of what they do.

Christian leaders however regularly gave me "because I say so" type answers, much like the replies from Christians I've gotten here.

So I think your assessment is backwards.

I think yours is biased
 

Enow

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Your reply brings me to mind of what I was discussing with @Enow earlier. I was that kid who always asked questions. Lots of questions! In our church that was seen as a negative trait. Even when church leaders would engage me I always came away with the impression that they didn't like how I questioned them on everything. That, plus how their answers were often to have faith, pray about it, or let the holy spirit guide me is a big part of what turned me away from Christianity.

In about middle school I started getting interested in science. I started reading lots of books and science magazines. A lot of times I'd have a question about something I'd read. So I'd look up the references at the library and most of the time the papers had full explanations of how they did their work and how the results led to their conclusions. It was so transparent, I loved it! Then when I got a little older I started meeting scientists, and when I asked them questions they'd do their best to answer, and when they didn't know they'd be honest and say "I don't know". It was so refreshing!

Your reply to my question and @Eternally Grateful 's reply to the article on radiometric dating from a Christian scientist takes me back to the days of our pastor and his "just have faith" answers. You know there isn't evidence because you know. EG says "I don't agree" and stops there.

That's a big reason why I've never been a Christian.

How is it any different between a scientist that says I don't know and the pastor or the Christian saying have faith, pray about it since they do not know the answer to the question you are asking, but they hope God will give that answer to you? You still walk away with no answers.

The problem here is that when it comes from understanding scripture, it takes wisdom from the Lord to see the truth in His words for the answers you seek.

You can start threads and use the @ to member's names here and ask questions, but you should be praying to God that if He is there, to help you see the truth in His words to believe in His Son in order to be saved.

When you see Jesus at the pre great tribulation rapture event, and afterwards that calamity of fire that is coming on the western hemisphere, while you still have breath, you can call on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ to be saved.
 

ThePuffyBlob

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I've seen people start to question their faith because their religious leaders tell them it's either the Bible or science.


Not really, no. Science is the process of collecting data, doing tests, and drawing conclusions from that. Whether those conclusions agree with the Bible isn't relevant to science.
it is for me i am not good at explaining in this english language so i can't explain at all lol even tho i want to
 

Paul Christensen

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it is for me i am not good at explaining in this english language so i can't explain at all lol even tho i want to
I knew some ladies from the Philippines who spoke Spanish. Is that your first language? If so, you could put your comment in Spanish and I could try and interpret it using Google Translate. I did that once with a Chinese lady who emailed me while I worked for the Ministry of Justice, and when I translated my English into Chinese, she responded with hilarious laughter!
 
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Justadude

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If you go to the woods and see bear tracks heading away from you, don't be certain that he is heading that way. He could be walking backwards and is behind you ready to pounce and have you for lunch!
Even though I never saw the bear I can still draw conclusions about things like the species and the size of the bear.
 

Justadude

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Forensic science is based on known proven things which have been witnessed before

once again. No one was alive 6000 years ago. Apples and oranges
People were alive 6,000 years ago.

you will Let scientists you agree with....it’s ok your aloud
No, whether or not the agree with me doesn't enter into it.

I think yours is biased
At least I explained my reasoning.
 

Justadude

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How is it any different between a scientist that says I don't know and the pastor or the Christian saying have faith, pray about it since they do not know the answer to the question you are asking, but they hope God will give that answer to you? You still walk away with no answers.
When it came to Christian leaders, they said they did know. It was when I asked them how they knew that I got the faith-based and magical/holy spirit type answers.

The problem here is that when it comes from understanding scripture, it takes wisdom from the Lord to see the truth in His words for the answers you seek.

You can start threads and use the @ to member's names here and ask questions, but you should be praying to God that if He is there, to help you see the truth in His words to believe in His Son in order to be saved.
The first thing that comes to my mind when I see that is how circular it is. I have to believe first and then the belief will make sense? I think I covered this at CB before so I'll just repeat what I said then. Why should I do that with Christianity and not all the other religions? Why shouldn't I just start believing in Mormonism or Hinduism?