Do you know of a passage in the old testament minor prophets that can be interpreted as 1000 years living in His sight? The Millennium?
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Do you know of a passage in the old testament minor prophets that can be interpreted as 1000 years living in His sight? The Millennium?
Paul Christensen
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Paul Christensen
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It's a Messianic prophecy - the reference being raised up on the third day.
Sort of. But it is not Jesus that needs to repent. The Jews have been partially blinded and scattered to all the nations for 2000 years. Then all Israel will be saved, and the Millennium with the Messiah is 1000 years.
Paul Christensen
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But there is no mention of repentance in the reference you have provided. The reference is consistent with the Isaiah prophecy about the Messiah being smitten of God and bruised for our iniquities. To be honest, I would say that the reference refers more consistently with Messianic prophecy, and to make it refer to the general restoration of Israel and a 1000 year Millennium might be reading something into the reference that is not there.
But there are other prophecies about the restoration of Israel in the last days, and the 1948 institution of the nation of Israel is a partial fulfilment of them.
Bobby Jo
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Here's one, -- Book 19, Chapter 48 = 1948*:Psalms 48
1 Great is the Lord and greatly to be praised
in the city of our God!
His holy mountain,
2 beautiful in elevation,
is the joy of all the earth,
Mount Zion, in the far north,
the city of the great King.
3 Within her citadels God
has shown himself a sure defense.
4 For lo, the kings assembled,
they came on together.
5 As soon as they saw it, they were astounded,
they were in panic, they took to flight;
6 trembling took hold of them there,
anguish as of a woman in travail.
7 By the east wind thou didst shatter
the ships of Tarshish.
8 As we have heard, so have we seen
in the city of the Lord of hosts,
in the city of our God,
which God establishes for ever.Selah
9 We have thought on thy steadfast love, O God,
in the midst of thy temple.
10 As thy name, O God,
so thy praise reaches to the ends of the earth.
Thy right hand is filled with victory;
11 let Mount Zion be glad!
Let the daughters of Judah rejoice
because of thy judgments!
12 Walk about Zion, go round about her,
number her towers,
13 consider well her ramparts,
go through her citadels;
that you may tell the next generation
14 that this is God,
our God for ever and ever.
He will be our guide for ever.
* J.R. Church, "Hidden Prophecies In The Psalms"1 Great is the Lord and greatly to be praised
in the city of our God!
His holy mountain,
2 beautiful in elevation,
is the joy of all the earth,
Mount Zion, in the far north,
the city of the great King.
3 Within her citadels God
has shown himself a sure defense.
4 For lo, the kings assembled,
they came on together.
5 As soon as they saw it, they were astounded,
they were in panic, they took to flight;
6 trembling took hold of them there,
anguish as of a woman in travail.
7 By the east wind thou didst shatter
the ships of Tarshish.
8 As we have heard, so have we seen
in the city of the Lord of hosts,
in the city of our God,
which God establishes for ever.Selah
9 We have thought on thy steadfast love, O God,
in the midst of thy temple.
10 As thy name, O God,
so thy praise reaches to the ends of the earth.
Thy right hand is filled with victory;
11 let Mount Zion be glad!
Let the daughters of Judah rejoice
because of thy judgments!
12 Walk about Zion, go round about her,
number her towers,
13 consider well her ramparts,
go through her citadels;
that you may tell the next generation
14 that this is God,
our God for ever and ever.
He will be our guide for ever.
Bobby Jo
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Hello
It has been suggested, and indeed I was taught such in the Bible school that I attended, that the OT prophets tended to see the mountain tops in their visions of prophecy, but did not see the valleys and plains that existed between the mountain top prophecies that they recorded.
In Daniel 12:4-13 we have 1,290 days/years mentioned, if we are consistent in applying the interpretation that a "day" prophetically represents a year in time. We also have a 1,345 day/year time period mentioned as well.
Now the period indicated by a "time, times and half a time" is, from my understanding, a little longer than 3,500 solar years, where H:4150 in Daniel 12:7 is understood to have the meaning of "a season," which was in OT time understood to be for a very long period of time and is also found in expressions like, "for many days." We are also told in Daniel 7:12 that the extended lives of the remaining four beasts that had not been slain was for a "season and a time".
Now I agree that a prescriptive time period of 1,000 years is not found in the OT, but this time period is described within the OT as a very long finite time. The NT in Rev 20 confirms for us that the period of time that the beasts and Satan is locked up in the Bottomless pit is for 1,000 years and that after they are released they are allowed to roam over the earth for a little while period before they are then captured and punished by being thrown into the Lake of Fire.
Now the question from verse 7 above is "when will the power of the holy people be completely shattered?" The answer to that question is that the power of the Holy people will be shattered at the end of the Age of the Ages, during the last age which scholars have labelled, the Millennium Age which includes the 1,000 years that Satan is imprisoned in the Bottomless pit plus the little while period that he is allowed to roam the earth. From this we can determine that an "age" is 1,000 + a few years in duration and the length of an age can be determined from a study of the chronology of the OT by determining how many years passed from when Adam was created until the start of the third age when Isaac was born as confirmation of God's covenant with Abraham.
Isa 24:21-23 tells us the following: -
Verse 21 and 22a speak of the time of Armageddon while verses 22b and 23 speak of the end of the Millennium age and afterwards which is the end of the wonders mentioned in Daniel 12:6.
It has been suggested, and indeed I was taught such in the Bible school that I attended, that the OT prophets tended to see the mountain tops in their visions of prophecy, but did not see the valleys and plains that existed between the mountain top prophecies that they recorded.
In Daniel 12:4-13 we have 1,290 days/years mentioned, if we are consistent in applying the interpretation that a "day" prophetically represents a year in time. We also have a 1,345 day/year time period mentioned as well.
Daniel 12:4-13: - 4 "But you, Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book until the time of the end; many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall increase."
5 Then I, Daniel, looked; and there stood two others, one on this riverbank and the other on that riverbank. 6 And one said to the man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river,"How long shall the fulfillment of these wonders be?"
7 Then I heard the man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand to heaven, and swore by Him who lives forever, that it shall be for a time, times, and half a time; and when the power of the holy people has been completely shattered, all these things shall be finished.
8 Although I heard, I did not understand. Then I said, "My lord, what shall be the end of these things?"
9 And he said, "Go your way, Daniel, for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end. 10 Many shall be purified, made white, and refined, but the wicked shall do wickedly; and none of the wicked shall understand, but the wise shall understand.
11 "And from the time that the daily sacrifice is taken away, and the abomination of desolation is set up, there shall be one thousand two hundred and ninety days. 12 Blessed is he who waits, and comes to the one thousand three hundred and thirty-five days.
13 "But you, go your way till the end; for you shall rest, and will arise to your inheritance at the end of the days."
5 Then I, Daniel, looked; and there stood two others, one on this riverbank and the other on that riverbank. 6 And one said to the man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river,"How long shall the fulfillment of these wonders be?"
7 Then I heard the man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand to heaven, and swore by Him who lives forever, that it shall be for a time, times, and half a time; and when the power of the holy people has been completely shattered, all these things shall be finished.
8 Although I heard, I did not understand. Then I said, "My lord, what shall be the end of these things?"
9 And he said, "Go your way, Daniel, for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end. 10 Many shall be purified, made white, and refined, but the wicked shall do wickedly; and none of the wicked shall understand, but the wise shall understand.
11 "And from the time that the daily sacrifice is taken away, and the abomination of desolation is set up, there shall be one thousand two hundred and ninety days. 12 Blessed is he who waits, and comes to the one thousand three hundred and thirty-five days.
13 "But you, go your way till the end; for you shall rest, and will arise to your inheritance at the end of the days."
Now the period indicated by a "time, times and half a time" is, from my understanding, a little longer than 3,500 solar years, where H:4150 in Daniel 12:7 is understood to have the meaning of "a season," which was in OT time understood to be for a very long period of time and is also found in expressions like, "for many days." We are also told in Daniel 7:12 that the extended lives of the remaining four beasts that had not been slain was for a "season and a time".
Now I agree that a prescriptive time period of 1,000 years is not found in the OT, but this time period is described within the OT as a very long finite time. The NT in Rev 20 confirms for us that the period of time that the beasts and Satan is locked up in the Bottomless pit is for 1,000 years and that after they are released they are allowed to roam over the earth for a little while period before they are then captured and punished by being thrown into the Lake of Fire.
Now the question from verse 7 above is "when will the power of the holy people be completely shattered?" The answer to that question is that the power of the Holy people will be shattered at the end of the Age of the Ages, during the last age which scholars have labelled, the Millennium Age which includes the 1,000 years that Satan is imprisoned in the Bottomless pit plus the little while period that he is allowed to roam the earth. From this we can determine that an "age" is 1,000 + a few years in duration and the length of an age can be determined from a study of the chronology of the OT by determining how many years passed from when Adam was created until the start of the third age when Isaac was born as confirmation of God's covenant with Abraham.
Isa 24:21-23 tells us the following: -
Isaiah 24:21-23: -
21 It shall come to pass in that day
22 They will be gathered together,
23 Then the moon will be disgraced
That the Lord will punish on high the host of exalted ones,
And on the earth the kings of the earth.
And on the earth the kings of the earth.
As prisoners are gathered in the pit,
And will be shut up in the prison;
After many days they will be punished.
And will be shut up in the prison;
After many days they will be punished.
And the sun ashamed;
For the Lord of hosts will reign
On Mount Zion and in Jerusalem
And before His elders, gloriously.
For the Lord of hosts will reign
On Mount Zion and in Jerusalem
And before His elders, gloriously.
Verse 21 and 22a speak of the time of Armageddon while verses 22b and 23 speak of the end of the Millennium age and afterwards which is the end of the wonders mentioned in Daniel 12:6.
Gen 15:16 is the only prophecy that I know of that is directly linked to the 1948 return of some of Abraham's descendants to the Land of Canaan. The restoration of the Nation of Israel to God does not happen until after the start of the Armageddon event, where God will gather them to himself, plant them in a fertile field/soil and teach them about the Gospel of Christ, i.e. the Mountain of Israel which is to become the highest mountain in the whole earth.
The redeeming process of the Nation of Israel as set out in scripture requires Israel to repent of the sins of their fathers as well as their own idolatrous sins first. IMHO, God is still waiting for Israel to repent. Yes Israel is seeking to find the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, but on their terms and not on God's terms. God is waiting for them to accept His terms of peace, before He will enter into a covenant of Peace with them.
Paul Christensen
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This is true. It is a fact that the large proportion of Jews living in present day Israel are secular, "nominal" Jews, along with Christians and Arabs; and the orthodox Jews are a relative minority. So, the merger of state and religion is not as pronounced as it was in First Century Judea. That's why I said that the institution of the nation of Israel is just a partial fulfilment of the prophecy. There is a lot more to come that we haven't seen yet.
Bobby Jo
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Perhaps you should start in "history" where men travel some 60 to 600 mph, and we have INSTANT KNOWLEDGE literally at our finger tips.
Or just throw darts. -- They're just as accurate if not MORE ACCURATE for you!
Bobby Jo
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Come, and let us return to the Lord;
That IS repentance.
For He has torn, but He will heal us;
He has stricken, but He will bind us up.
2 After two days He will revive us;
On the third day He will raise us up,
That we may live in His sight.
It is clear as day to me. It doesn't say He was torn; it say He has torn. Who? The Jews who rejected Him. That is why they need to return to the Lord. It is not Jesus that needs to return to the Lord.
Paul Christensen
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All you are doing is taking one phrase out of the total context and making it mean something other than what the context indicates. Your contention indicates that you have a limited understanding of the extent of the consequences between Jesus and the Father when Jesus became sin for us as He hung upon the cross. For three hours, his relationship with the Father was torn apart, and He, alone from His Father for the first time in eternity took the full eternal wrath of the Father upon Himself. In the midst of that He cried out, "My God, My God, why have you forsaken me?" So this definitely does speak of a tearing - of his relationship with the Father. After the three hours, Jesus was able to say, "It is finished", in other words, "The debt is paid". Then as He died He said, "Father, into Your hands I commit my spirit". Notice that in the midst of His torment, He did not address the Father as His Father. He cried out, "My God!" which meant at that point the Father was no longer a Father to Him, but His God who was pouring out His wrath upon Him. But as Jesus died, He knew that because the debt of sin had been paid, He was able to again relate to His Father as His Father, and He was able to say, "Father, I commit my spirit to you." At that point, He gave up His life because there was no more purpose for Him to be alive in the flesh. The cross didn't kill him, because the prophecy said that no one would take His life. He gave it up voluntarily once the purpose for Him being hung on the cross was fulfilled.
To be frank, anyone who uses comprehension 101 would see that the reference is to the Messiah.
It seems you are being condescending.
Come, and let us return to the Lord;
For He has torn, but He will heal us;
When did Jesus need to return to the Lord? When did He reject God? Comprehension 101 is definitely speaking of the Jews.
Paul Christensen
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So the Jewish nation will be revived in two days, and be raised up on the third day? How is that going to happen? There was only one Person who was raised up on the third day, and that was Jesus. How can one half of a reference be talking about one thing and the second half of the same reference be talking about something else?
The point I was making was that Gen 15:16a has been, with respect to the return of some Abraham's descendants to the Land of Canaan in their own strength has been fully fulfilled. However, Gen 15:16b has been partially fulfilled: -
Gen 15:16: - for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet complete.
This verse only indicates when some of Abraham's descendants will be drawn to return to Land of Canaan, in the hope that they will force God's hand into redeeming them. To this end, they had help from some people who joined them through intrigue. Dan 11:34
The following passage as it has been translated present a wrong picture and when I looked at the translation of the Hebrew words in this passage i come to a very different conclusion as I show below with the highlighted words in bold.
Ezek 34:11-16: - 11 'For thus says the Lord God: "Indeed I Myself will search for My sheep and seek them out. 12 As a shepherd seeks out his flock on the day he is among his scattered sheep, so will I seek out My sheep and deliver them from all the places where they were scattered on a cloudy and dark day. 13 And I will bring them out from the peoples and gather them from the countries, and will bring them to their own land/fertile soil; I will feed them on the mountains/religion of Israel, in the valleys and in all the inhabited places of the country/earth. 14 I will feed them in good pasture, and their fold shall be on the high mountains/religion of Israel. There they shall lie down in a good fold and feed in rich pasture on the mountains/religion of Israel. 15 I will feed My flock, and I will make them lie down," says the Lord God. 16 "I will seek what was lost and bring back what was driven away, bind up the broken and strengthen what was sick; but I will destroy the fat and the strong, and feed them in judgment."
In this portion of Prophecy, I do not see that God is wanting the Nation of Israel to return to the Land of Canaan, but rather what i am seeing is God teaching the Israelites in all of the places where they are living scattered throughout the whole earth.
God is waiting for Israel to repent of their idolatrous behavior when He will then redeem them and make like new again the Kingdom of Priest, a Holy Nation and His Possession among the Nations Covenant that was originally make with the Nation of Israel at Mt Sinai.
For this Covenant to be fulfilled, the nation of Israel must remain scattered among all of the nations of the earth. This fulfillment will occur at the end of this present Age around 91 plus years after some of Abraham's descendant returned to the land of Canaan in 1948 when the Fig Tree began to bud leaves once more. The Good Figs will come when the Summer season begins with the start of the Millennium Age. During the Millennium Age, Israel will be the first fruits of that age.
Shalom
Yes, 2000 years from sometime in the first century when God struck them with partial blindness. They will be unblinded shortly before the second coming when Christ will reign on earth for 1000 years.
Paul Christensen
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That, I can agree with. There will be a remnant of Israel who have fled into the wilderness and been protected by the Holy Spirit and when Jesus returns to the Mount of Olives, they will return, see Him in person and believe on Him, be saved, and become part of the company of the saved along with the Gentiles. Then the distinction between Jew and Gentile will disappear and the saved will become one people under Christ.
After the 1000 year reign, the unsaved dead will be resurrected to judgment and the final curtain will come down on Satan, his demons, and the unsaved, who will all go into the lake of fire, the present world and universe will be rolled up and put out of existence, and a new earth and universe will be created, the New Jerusalem will come down and we will be with the Lord for ever.
Bobby Jo
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Where do you see "come down"? -- It will appear in the skies. And those who are alive and remain shall ascend (be raptured) to the New Jerusalem. And so we will be with the LORD forever in the air.
And over time the heavens and earth shall pass away, but the New Jerusalem shall continue for eternity.
Bobby Jo
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Amen. I believe it will be very very soon; not in another 1000 years or more. That is why I believe Hosea talks of the 1000 year Millennium being only after 2000 years, not 5000 or some other number.
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