Why do the self taught preach an incomplete gospel?

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DNB

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I was a high school dropout and left school without any qualifications. But when I became a Christian, I did exactly how you described - read all the men and women of God who were known as great soul-winners, to find out what they believed in comparison to those who appeared to be all talk. I also read every devotional and theological work by the Puritans and learned my theological foundations that way. It was not until my late 30s that I gained a degree in English Literature and became a school teacher; and I gained my M.Div at the age of 68. So, in terms of formal education I was a bit of a late bloomer.

I don't think I was self-taught in the sense that I had just the Bible and drew my own conclusions from it. I brought a set of Spurgeon's Treasury of the Bible and through his written sermons he became my pastor and teacher for a number of years when I was in a small home fellowship without a pastor. While doing my post-graduate degree in English, I learned the techniques of scholarship which was of great assistance to me, and when I did my research paper for my M.Div, I obtained (from my favourite Christian second hand book shop) every book I could on the divine healing ministry (the good, bad, and the ugly) so I could get a good overview of the Scriptural, historic, and current views and practices of the divine healing ministry. I gained 95% for that research paper, from a non-Charismatic on-line Bible College no less! I published it under the title "The Divine Healing Ministry, Then and Now".

So, when I told our fine feathered friend that in order to gain satisfactory knowledge about a theological topic or issue, one must read every available book and article on it, I was telling him to do something that I have done myself. To be able to find the precious nuggets, one must do a lot of digging, or as I tell my 28 year old daughter who has just broken up with her current boyfriend - "To meet your handsome prince you have to kiss quite a few toads first!"
Very impressive credentials, and the self-discipline is commendable, especially for a drop-out, ....like myself.
Yes, once one becomes introduced the Gospel and God's Word, there's a natural zeal to learn more and to get other opinions, especially from the scholars. I haven't come close to researching and familiarizing myself with as many theological works as you have, but the mutual recognition of the need to reach out beyond our own understandings, is quite apparent.
There was a time when i stopped reading the Bible for a while, just to read commentaries and related works, in order to keep my views in check and possibly expand on them, or consider other options of interpretation.
So, I do have faith that a self-taught education is a viable education, provided that it's thorough and well researched.
 
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Enoch111

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So, I do have faith that a self-taught education is a viable education, provided that it's thorough and well researched.
Formal academic credentials do not necessarily guarantee anything. Most people who have achieved great things have been self taught. Thomas Edison and Henry Ford are prime examples.

Indeed Henry Ford was involved in a lawsuit where the opposition's lawyer tried to mock him because he lacked a formal education. Ford turned the tables on him by telling him that he could hire a couple of dozen experts to provide any information he needed at any time.

Let's never forget that neither Jesus of Nazareth nor his apostles attended any rabbinic schools. Yet they turned the world upside down. While I have a Master of Science degree, it means nothing in the spiritual realm. And Nicodemus, "a master" or teacher in Israel, learned this the hard way.
 

Paul Christensen

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Formal academic credentials do not necessarily guarantee anything. Most people who have achieved great things have been self taught. Thomas Edison and Henry Ford are prime examples.

Indeed Henry Ford was involved in a lawsuit where the opposition's lawyer tried to mock him because he lacked a formal education. Ford turned the tables on him by telling him that he could hire a couple of dozen experts to provide any information he needed at any time.

Let's never forget that neither Jesus of Nazareth nor his apostles attended any rabbinic schools. Yet they turned the world upside down. While I have a Master of Science degree, it means nothing in the spiritual realm. And Nicodemus, "a master" or teacher in Israel, learned this the hard way.
I think the positive thing about doing a degree in divinity or theology is the discipline of study, research, and writing of essays and assignments and to have them graded by others who are expert in the particular areas of study. An unteachable person who is stuck in his own views will never succeed, either in the academic world, or in Christian ministry. All the founders of pseudo-christian cults were unteachable people who entertained no other opinions but their own.
 
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DNB

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Formal academic credentials do not necessarily guarantee anything. Most people who have achieved great things have been self taught. Thomas Edison and Henry Ford are prime examples.

Indeed Henry Ford was involved in a lawsuit where the opposition's lawyer tried to mock him because he lacked a formal education. Ford turned the tables on him by telling him that he could hire a couple of dozen experts to provide any information he needed at any time.

Let's never forget that neither Jesus of Nazareth nor his apostles attended any rabbinic schools. Yet they turned the world upside down. While I have a Master of Science degree, it means nothing in the spiritual realm. And Nicodemus, "a master" or teacher in Israel, learned this the hard way.
Good examples, ...and I've often said that, invariably, the most pedantic people that I know, are the most dull in matters pertaining to the spiritual realm. ....which maybe is not that profound a realization, considering being pedantic is a superficial trait, ...direct correlation, therefore.
 
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GISMYS_7

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Romans: Chapter 10 verse 9-10-13 GOD SAYS=

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus,
and shalt believe in your heart that God hath raised him
from the dead, thou shalt be Saved. For with the heart man
believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession
is made unto Salvation. For whosoever shall call upon the
name of the Lord shall be Saved....................

---------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------

An example prayer for those that have never talked to God!

Heavenly Father:........................................... ...............................
I come to you in prayer asking for the forgiveness of
my Sins. I confess with my mouth and believe with my
heart that Jesus is your Son, And that he died on the
Cross at Calvary that I might be forgiven and have
Eternal Life in the Kingdom of Heaven. Father, I believe
that Jesus rose from the dead and I ask you right now
to come in to my life and be my personal Lord and
Savior. I repent of my Sins and will Worship you all the
day's of my Life!. Because your word is truth, I confess
with my mouth that I am Born Again and Cleansed
by the Blood of Jesus! In Jesus Name, Amen
 
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Faither

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Romans: Chapter 10 verse 9-10-13 GOD SAYS=

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus,
and shalt believe in your heart that God hath raised him
from the dead, thou shalt be Saved. For with the heart man
believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession
is made unto Salvation. For whosoever shall call upon the
name of the Lord shall be Saved....................

---------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------

An example prayer for those that have never talked to God!

Heavenly Father:........................................... ...............................
I come to you in prayer asking for the forgiveness of
my Sins. I confess with my mouth and believe with my
heart that Jesus is your Son, And that he died on the
Cross at Calvary that I might be forgiven and have
Eternal Life in the Kingdom of Heaven. Father, I believe
that Jesus rose from the dead and I ask you right now
to come in to my life and be my personal Lord and
Savior. I repent of my Sins and will Worship you all the
day's of my Life!. Because your word is truth, I confess
with my mouth that I am Born Again and Cleansed
by the Blood of Jesus! In Jesus Name, Amen

I realize that is the popular method to respond to the call of the Father, but what you've bore witness to here will not result in recieving the Spirit of Christ.

At best what you wrote is just an extended definition of repentance, which is just turning from our way to His way in our mind. Now is when the real act of Faith, the covenant, the contract with God is made by a Continually surrendered life.

Without that fulfillment of pisteuo, we have yet to begin our walk with Christ. Still at the beginning, with the Father awaiting a correct response.
 

charity

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Agreed. A command is maybe a little over the top, but a suggestion wouldn't be enough. The important part of this is that Christ made a point to elevate what this woman did on par or as the same importance as His work on the Cross.

I'm not saying that what she did in any way fulfill the perfect sacrifice that only Christ can do. But what she did was an example of a surrendered life, a surrendered life wasted on Christ. He elevated her act of Faith to the same importance as His work on the Cross. Christ work on the cross provided Grace to the world, we receive it individually by Faith and faithing, starting by a surrendered life.

We need to make sure we are not standing with Judas who said " why this waste"? Discerned, he is saying this has no importance other than it's value, when Jesus saw a fulfillment of pisteuo. This is why He said " wherever this gospel is preached, tell what this woman did." The perfect example of Faith applied!

" Believing" is a part of her fulfilling pisteuo or saving Faith, but if she would have " only" believed in the things He was saying, ( God's word ) it would have not availed the response she received from Jesus.
'And being in Bethany in the house of Simon the leper,
as He sat at meat, there came a woman
having an alabaster box of ointment of spikenard very precious;
and she brake the box, and poured it on His head.
And there were some that had indignation within themselves,
and said, Why was this waste of the ointment made?
For it might have been sold for more than three hundred pence,
and have been given to the poor. And they murmured against her.
And Jesus said, Let her alone; why trouble ye her?
she hath wrought a good work on me.
For ye have the poor with you always,
and whensoever ye will ye may do them good:
but Me ye have not always.
She hath done what she could:
she is come aforehand to anoint My body to the burying.
Verily I say unto you,
Wheresoever this gospel shall be preached throughout the whole world,
this also that she hath done shall be spoken of for a memorial of her.'

(Mark 14:3-9)

Hello @Faither,

With the greatest respect to you, I cannot accept your interpretation of this passage, for it goes beyond what is actually written. For the woman's act of faith, though commended by the Lord, was not in any way elevated by Him to the height of the work He fulfilled at the cross.

In Christ Jesus
Chris
 

Ezra

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I've been a paulunist for 33 years, my teacher for 50 years.
I just don't agree that when Jesus sent out the apostles and told them whenever this gospel is preached to tell what this woman did, he was only speaking to Jews.

" Our Faith" pisteuo in the Greek is defined as " a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender." If your placing any of your understanding on the words believe, believer, and believing in the NT, your standing on a mistranslation.
aint that wonderful. i to enjoy paul teaching but i also read the entire Bible ..i follow Christ
 

Ezra

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I realize that is the popular method to respond to the call of the Father, but what you've bore witness to here will not result in recieving the Spirit of Christ.

At best what you wrote is just an extended definition of repentance, which is just turning from our way to His way in our mind. Now is when the real act of Faith, the covenant, the contract with God is made by a Continually surrendered life.

Without that fulfillment of pisteuo, we have yet to begin our walk with Christ. Still at the beginning, with the Father awaiting a correct response.
so who or what makes you a authority
 
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Faither

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'And being in Bethany in the house of Simon the leper,
as He sat at meat, there came a woman
having an alabaster box of ointment of spikenard very precious;
and she brake the box, and poured it on His head.
And there were some that had indignation within themselves,
and said, Why was this waste of the ointment made?
For it might have been sold for more than three hundred pence,
and have been given to the poor. And they murmured against her.
And Jesus said, Let her alone; why trouble ye her?
she hath wrought a good work on me.
For ye have the poor with you always,
and whensoever ye will ye may do them good:
but Me ye have not always.
She hath done what she could:
she is come aforehand to anoint My body to the burying.
Verily I say unto you,
Wheresoever this gospel shall be preached throughout the whole world,
this also that she hath done shall be spoken of for a memorial of her.'

(Mark 14:3-9)

Hello @Faither,

With the greatest respect to you, I cannot accept your interpretation of this passage, for it goes beyond what is actually written. For the woman's act of faith, though commended by the Lord, was not in any way elevated by Him to the height of the work He fulfilled at the cross.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

This isn't really my interpretation of the woman with the alabaster box, it's my gifted teachers.

He's graduated now, but taught almost daily for 50 years. He was Dr. of theology from Stanford University and had a Dr. In education. He amassed the largest collection of biblical manuscripts in private hands, only the Vatican had more.

He was fluent and taught in dozens of languages. Owned Bibles in over a dozen languages in which he would compare to the original Greek to show which had the closest translation.

He collected the manuscripts, dead sea scrolls, Hebrew scrolls, Bible's written by every author, Martin Luther collection, 2nd and 3rd century original manuscripts, filling 3 floors of a Cathedral to preserve it for the world. To honor the people who gave their lives for many of those texts.

With all this said, he was a teachers teacher who in his early years was a trouble shooter for churches who were stagnant. His messages of Faith correctly understood would get these churches growing again. He also taught in front of huge crowds in China, and many other countries. He provides his message of Faith globally to this day as he has for the last 65 years.

Without any doubt, he could be the greatest Bible teacher since the apostle Paul. So the " interpretation" isn't something I just dreamed up or is my opinion. The year he died, he spent almost two years on the first three chapters of Romans. He would look at every word, in every translation, and not only compare them to the original manuscripts, but the things they are currently finding today in the unearthed trash piles in the Holy lands.

So I thought I would take a minute to let you know exactly what went into what your disagreeing with.
 

Faither

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so who or what makes you a authority

33 years of learning under the teacher described in post #110. Along with a full acknowledgement of the Spirit of Christ and God's revelation of truth.

I try to highlight these stumbling blocks from a position of a filthy servant, not from an authoritive one.
 

charity

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This isn't really my interpretation of the woman with the alabaster box, it's my gifted teachers.

He's graduated now, but taught almost daily for 50 years. He was Dr. of theology from Stanford University and had a Dr. In education. He amassed the largest collection of biblical manuscripts in private hands, only the Vatican had more.

He was fluent and taught in dozens of languages. Owned Bibles in over a dozen languages in which he would compare to the original Greek to show which had the closest translation.

He collected the manuscripts, dead sea scrolls, Hebrew scrolls, Bible's written by every author, Martin Luther collection, 2nd and 3rd century original manuscripts, filling 3 floors of a Cathedral to preserve it for the world. To honor the people who gave their lives for many of those texts.

With all this said, he was a teachers teacher who in his early years was a trouble shooter for churches who were stagnant. His messages of Faith correctly understood would get these churches growing again. He also taught in front of huge crowds in China, and many other countries. He provides his message of Faith globally to this day as he has for the last 65 years.

Without any doubt, he could be the greatest Bible teacher since the apostle Paul. So the " interpretation" isn't something I just dreamed up or is my opinion. The year he died, he spent almost two years on the first three chapters of Romans. He would look at every word, in every translation, and not only compare them to the original manuscripts, but the things they are currently finding today in the unearthed trash piles in the Holy lands.

So I thought I would take a minute to let you know exactly what went into what your disagreeing with.
Hello @Faither,

Thank you for telling me these things, but it doesn't make any difference who it was who penned the words you entered, my response would have been the same.

In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
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Enoch111

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I think the positive thing about doing a degree in divinity or theology is the discipline of study, research, and writing of essays and assignments and to have them graded by others who are expert in the particular areas of study.
You seem to be forgetting that the majority of seminaries and Bible schools have succumbed to theological liberalism, false doctrines, or counterfeit bible versions and critical (read corrupted) Hebrew and Greek texts. Also they have tended to cater to *scholarship* rather than plain Bible truth.

Many have also undermined the faith of impressionable young people by attacking the Bible and Bible doctrine. IOW, entering seminaries is like entering a mine field. The reason for today's apostasy within Christendom can be traced right back to the professors (read pretenders). Just like the Communism of the Millennials today can be traced back to Communistic professors in secular universities and colleges.
 

Enoch111

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Why do the self taught preach an incomplete gospel?
This poster does not believe that the Holy Spirit is the divine Teacher of Christians. That's why he has invented another gospel.
 

Faither

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Hello @Faither,

Thank you for telling me these things, but it doesn't make any difference who it was who penned the words you entered, my response would have been the same.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

What is your interpretation discernment based on?
 

Faither

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This poster does not believe that the Holy Spirit is the divine Teacher of Christians. That's why he has invented another gospel.

So that's the " real" gospel?
Then we don't need God's word at all! We don't need Bible schools, or even preachers.

This poster " doesn't believe" that more than just a few even have the Spirit of Christ!
 

Paul Christensen

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You seem to be forgetting that the majority of seminaries and Bible schools have succumbed to theological liberalism, false doctrines, or counterfeit bible versions and critical (read corrupted) Hebrew and Greek texts. Also they have tended to cater to *scholarship* rather than plain Bible truth.

Many have also undermined the faith of impressionable young people by attacking the Bible and Bible doctrine. IOW, entering seminaries is like entering a mine field. The reason for today's apostasy within Christendom can be traced right back to the professors (read pretenders). Just like the Communism of the Millennials today can be traced back to Communistic professors in secular universities and colleges.
That is true, and this is why we must carefully choose which Bible College we are going to use for achieving our ministry or theological training. But to justify an unteachable attitude by saying all Bible Colleges are corrupt is something quite different. I did my degree through Nations University based in New Orleans, and found them very sound in their Evangelical doctrine, and they gave me very high marks in my essays in which I expressed my Puritan mixed with Pentecostal theology. This is a Bible College that trains people to go out and share the gospel of Christ and have the theological and divinity resources to minister sound doctrine. So, I think I chose my Bible College well and studying with it did not corrupt my faith in any way at all.
 
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Faither

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You seem to be forgetting that the majority of seminaries and Bible schools have succumbed to theological liberalism, false doctrines, or counterfeit bible versions and critical (read corrupted) Hebrew and Greek texts. Also they have tended to cater to *scholarship* rather than plain Bible truth.

Many have also undermined the faith of impressionable young people by attacking the Bible and Bible doctrine. IOW, entering seminaries is like entering a mine field. The reason for today's apostasy within Christendom can be traced right back to the professors (read pretenders). Just like the Communism of the Millennials today can be traced back to Communistic professors in secular universities and colleges.

Your act of Fsith" "believing only" is based on a counterfeit translation!
 

Faither

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That is true, and this is why we must carefully choose which Bible College we are going to use for achieving our ministry or theological training. But to justify an unteachable attitude by saying all Bible Colleges are corrupt is something quite different. I did my degree through Nations University based in New Orleans, and found them very sound in their Evangelical doctrine, and they gave me very high marks in my essays in which I expressed my Puritan mixed with Pentecostal theology. This is a Bible College that trains people to go out and share the gospel of Christ and have the theological and divinity resources to minister sound doctrine. So, I think I chose my Bible College well and studying with it did not corrupt my faith in any way at all.

My gifted Bible teacher got kicked out for asking to many questions. They told him he needs to go to the University, Stanford University. That was in 1950!
 

charity

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What is your interpretation discernment based on?

Hello @Faither,

I simply believe what is written. In relation to the woman in question, her action, the reason for it, and why she would be honoured for it, are a matter of record. It needs no further interpretation. By application, it could be used as an example of someone not counting the cost, but of doing all that she could, like that of the widow giving her two mites in (Mark 12:41-44); but ascribing more to it than that is going beyond what is written concerning her, and adding a meaning which was never intended.

There are Scriptures elsewhere which illustrate the obedience of faith, such as in Hebrews 11, and Romans 12:1.

'I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God,
that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice,
holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
And be not conformed to this world:
but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind,
that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.'

(Rom 12:1)

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
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