Regeneration before or after saving faith

SovereignGrace · Mar 24, 2020

Eternally Grateful said:
how do you get this from what she said?

Just asking bro. I do not see it

If God has to at least try to save someone, then they are deserving of His attempt. If He doesn’t try to save everyone, then you guys say He is not being fair.

SovereignGrace · Mar 24, 2020

Jane_Doe22 said:
Can a person choose to accept Christ as their Lord & Savior?

Sure. But God must first quicken them.

You’re not seeing the gravity of sin. The lost person is ensnared in sin. In fact, he is bound in sin by Satan and is also blinded. That is why the Christ stated “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”[John 3:3] Unless God quickens them, they cannot even see the kingdom of God, yet alone enter it. In your schema you have man seeking it, finding it, and then being born again. That’s not what the Christ was teaching. Now, why can’t ppl see this kingdom when they’re lost? in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.[2 Corinthians 4:4] The lost are ensnared in sin. Satan has them bound up, and also blinded. That’s why the Christ said ”But no one can enter the strong man’s house and plunder his property unless he first binds the strong man, and then he will plunder his house.”[Mark 3:27] The lost person in his unregenerate state cannot choose the Christ because Satan has him blinded and bound in sin, and will not let him go to serve the Christ. The Christ has to come in and bind up the strong man(Satan) and cast him out. And that is what the Christ meant when He said ”So if the Son makes you free, you will be free indeed.”[John 8:36] The Spirit of God comes in and binds Satan up, casts him out, opens his blinded eyes, liberates his will that was once enslaved to sin, and he is saved.

Eternally Grateful · Mar 24, 2020

SovereignGrace said:
If God has to at least try to save someone, then they are deserving of His attempt. If He doesn’t try to save everyone, then you guys say He is not being fair.

No bro, We do not think this at all. Your twisting what we say and making it seem like we are saying something we have never said nor intended to say

please stop trying to determine what you think we mean, actually Both sides needs to stop it. that's why there can never be any proper communication

Eternally Grateful · Mar 24, 2020

SovereignGrace said:
Sure. But God must first quicken them.

You’re not seeing the gravity of sin. The lost person is ensnared in sin. In fact, he is bound in sin by Satan and is also blinded. That is why the Christ stated “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”[John 3:3] Unless God quickens them, they cannot even see the kingdom of God, yet alone enter it. In your schema you have man seeking it, finding it, and then being born again. That’s not what the Christ was teaching. Now, why can’t ppl see this kingdom when they’re lost? in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.[2 Corinthians 4:4] The lost are ensnared in sin. Satan has them bound up, and also blinded. That’s why the Christ said ”But no one can enter the strong man’s house and plunder his property unless he first binds the strong man, and then he will plunder his house.”[Mark 3:27] The lost person in his unregenerate state cannot choose the Christ because Satan has him blinded and bound in sin, and will not let him go to serve the Christ. The Christ has to come in and bind up the strong man(Satan) and cast him out. And that is what the Christ meant when He said ”So if the Son makes you free, you will be free indeed.”[John 8:36] The Spirit of God comes in and binds Satan up, casts him out, opens his blinded eyes, liberates his will that was once enslaved to sin, and he is saved.

then they have not chosen. In order to chose. you must have the ability to say no also.

I doubt your belief has God quickening a person. and that person in the end say no, or do you think they can?

SovereignGrace · Mar 24, 2020

@Jane_Doe22

Don’t take my word for it. I post a verse here and there, and it’s incumbent upon you to go back and see the context of the surrounding verses and see if I’m correct or not. I’m willing to die for what I believe in, by the way.

SovereignGrace · Mar 24, 2020

Eternally Grateful said:
then they have not chosen. In order to chose. you must have the ability to say no also.

I doubt your belief has God quickening a person. and that person in the end say no

If a person is quickened they are saved. Yes they have chosen.

Ezra · Mar 24, 2020

SovereignGrace said:
babies are born innocent,

a baby does not know what sin is. you bet there born innocent does a baby understand right from wrong?no they have to be taught, you can teach baby and young children go to hell if you want .you can raise achildup in a moral environment and while growing up thy will act moral and be moral . just like raising them in a church environment. i had a 6 year old girl that was staying with us. tell me she wanted to be a preacher. she dos not understand. the Holy spirit will have to show them the need for salvation. some children get saved at a young age and stay with it . other learn the ways of the world go with the world.. your posting strange fire

SovereignGrace · Mar 24, 2020

Eternally Grateful said:
No bro, We do not think this at all. Your twisting what we say and making it seem like we are saying something we have never said nor intended to say

please stop trying to determine what you think we mean, actually Both sides needs to stop it. that's why there can never be any proper communication

You guys keep saying if God doesn’t call all, He isn’t being fair. In your schema they deserve to be called.

SovereignGrace · Mar 24, 2020

Ezra said:
a baby does not know what sin is. you bet there born innocent does a baby understand right from wrong?no they have to be taught, you can teach baby and young children go to hell if you want .you can raise achildup in a moral environment and while growing up thy will act moral and be moral . just like raising them in a church environment. i had a 6 year old girl that was staying with us. tell me she wanted to be a preacher. she dos not understand. the Holy spirit will have to show them the need for salvation. some children gt saved ata young agand stay with it

Babies are not born innocent. An innocent person is one who hasn’t sinned. And if they’re sinless, they can’t die.

SovereignGrace · Mar 24, 2020

Ezra said:
a baby does not know what sin is. you bet there born innocent does a baby understand right from wrong?no they have to be taught, you can teach baby and young children go to hell if you want .you can raise achildup in a moral environment and while growing up thy will act moral and be moral . just like raising them in a church environment. i had a 6 year old girl that was staying with us. tell me she wanted to be a preacher. she dos not understand. the Holy spirit will have to show them the need for salvation. some children get saved at a young age and stay with it . other learn the ways of the world go with the world.. your posting strange fire

I didn’t not type this, a baby is born innocent, unless it’s a typo or you edited it to say that.

Eternally Grateful · Mar 24, 2020

SovereignGrace said:
If a person is quickened they are saved. Yes they have chosen.

in other words

once they are quickened, they can ONLY say yes.

again, this is not choosing.. The only way you can chose is if you are free to say no. What you just stated if they have no chance to say no.

Jane_Doe22 · Mar 24, 2020

SovereignGrace said:
Sure. But God must first quicken them.

Which he does not do to everyone?
So not everyone has that choice to accept the Savior?

SovereignGrace said:
You’re not seeing the gravity of sin. The lost person is ensnared in sin. In fact, he is bound in sin by Satan and is also blinded. That is why the Christ stated “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”[John 3:3] Unless God quickens them, they cannot even see the kingdom of God, yet alone enter it. In your schema you have man seeking it, finding it, and then being born again. That’s not what the Christ was teaching. Now, why can’t ppl see this kingdom when they’re lost? in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.[2 Corinthians 4:4] The lost are ensnared in sin. Satan has them bound up, and also blinded. That’s why the Christ said ”But no one can enter the strong man’s house and plunder his property unless he first binds the strong man, and then he will plunder his house.”[Mark 3:27] The lost person in his unregenerate state cannot choose the Christ because Satan has him blinded and bound in sin, and will not let him go to serve the Christ. The Christ has to come in and bind up the strong man(Satan) and cast him out. And that is what the Christ meant when He said ”So if the Son makes you free, you will be free indeed.”[John 8:36] The Spirit of God comes in and binds Satan up, casts him out, opens his blinded eyes, liberates his will that was once enslaved to sin, and he is saved.

I'm not doubting the magnitude of sin here. That's not the question. The question is whether or not there are some people God created to be blind, never have the chance to accept the Savior, and then go straight to Hell.

In other words: I'm not doubting the magnitude of how high a 5000 ft fall hurts. The question is whether or not God (whom know that big drop was there before people were born) gave everyone a parachute named the Savior.

SovereignGrace · Mar 24, 2020

Eternally Grateful said:
then they have not chosen. In order to chose. you must have the ability to say no also.

I doubt your belief has God quickening a person. and that person in the end say no, or do you think they can?

If you flat line and crash to the floor and someone does CPR on you and revive you, and you thank the person later on for saving your life, did you choose to thank him? Sure you did. When God quickened us, we were given faith and repentance, exercised them, were saved, and praised Him for saving us.

SovereignGrace · Mar 24, 2020

Eternally Grateful said:
in other words

once they are quickened, they can ONLY say yes.

again, this is not choosing.. The only way you can chose is if you are free to say no. What you just stated if they have no chance to say no.

You act as if this is a bad thing that God quickens them and saves them all by Himself.

SovereignGrace · Mar 24, 2020

Jane_Doe22 said:
Which he does not do to everyone?

Correct.

So not everyone has that choice to accept the Savior?

I'm not doubting the magnitude of sin here. That's not the question. The question is whether or not there are some people God created to be blind, never have the chance to accept the Savior, and then go straight to Hell.

God would have been just to not save one soul. Yet in His grace and mercy, He elected a number of God-hating, rebel sinners, gave them to His Son to redeem. He was not obligated to save one, yet He is saving a MULTITUDE of ppl who deserve hell and ppl take umbrage with it.

SovereignGrace · Mar 24, 2020

Preacher4Truth said:
Here you go @Renniks

I show below how you take the text you offered completely out of context, misused it, and misapplied it to lost folks only in order to support your error that the lost have to meet conditions for God to save them.

This is further proof you do in fact say they have the ability, something you denied believing only after you stated YOU prepared your heart SO God would save you. You're being either disingenuous, dishonest, or perhaps both.

This text isn't about, for, or to the lost. You've failed to implement 2 Timothy 2:15 which is why your conclusion is absolutely false and finds zero support from Scripture.

This is just one example of how you've been refuted; you shamefully mishandled Gods word.

I will bring more where your response snipped out my refutation.

Here you go:

Cold busted!

Jane_Doe22 · Mar 24, 2020

SovereignGrace said:
Correct.

God would have been just to not save one soul. Yet in His grace and mercy, He elected a number of God-hating, rebel sinners, gave them to His Son to redeem. He was not obligated to save one, yet He is saving a MULTITUDE of ppl who deserve hell and ppl take umbrage with it.

Do you acknowledge that you believe God created people he predestined to go to hell for eternity: created trapped/blinded, and left there with zero chance of accepting the Savior?

If not, please tell me how you believe God gives every single person the chance to accept Him.

SovereignGrace · Mar 24, 2020

Jane_Doe22 said:
Do you acknowledge that you believe God created people he predestined to go to hell for eternity: created trapped/blinded, and left there with zero chance of accepting the Savior?

Let me ask you a question. Are there any ppl deserving of heaven?

Preacher4Truth · Mar 24, 2020

SovereignGrace said:
You act as if this is a bad thing that God quickens them and saves them all by Himself.

"It's unfair, they'll say "'Yes'" to God and he'll get all the glory because he did it all and changed their hearts to be willing! That is plain WRONG!!!!"

I can tell you exactly where that complaint derives from. Look at how angry they are and what a huge aversion they have with God getting all the glory, as if man could help save himself in the first place. No one is saved because they "chose."

SovereignGrace · Mar 24, 2020

Jane_Doe22 said:
Do you acknowledge that you believe God created people he predestined to go to hell for eternity: created trapped/blinded, and left there with zero chance of accepting the Savior?

If not, please tell me how you believe God gives every single person the chance to accept Him.

God created Adam from the ground, and Eve from his rib. He did not create us. We are procreated via intercourse from our parents.

Regeneration before or after saving faith

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