Regeneration before or after saving faith

SovereignGrace · Mar 24, 2020

Jane_Doe22 said:
John 3:16, which I know that you're just going to say "well the world doesn't actually mean the world and all the people in it".
But again, I'm not trying to change your beliefs.

I want to understand your beliefs. Understand how it is you believe what you do.

Look at 1 John 2:15. Do not love the world nor the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. Obviously world here does not mean everybody whoever lived but the world system. We are to love worldly functions and to separate ourselves from these functions.

We know that we are of God, and that the whole world lies in the power of the evil one.[1 John 5:19]

Here is the words ‘whole world’. So, are even the saved under the power of the evil one? Absolutely not. So, ‘whole world’ here means the lost, as they are the ones under Satan’s control.

SovereignGrace · Mar 24, 2020

Renniks said:
Lots of people who are quickened refuse to surrender. You can't claim to exercise Faith and still claim he does everything and you don't do anything BTW.

This is flat out wrong. You are dangerous with a bible in your hands.

Jane_Doe22 · Mar 24, 2020

SovereignGrace said:
Look at 1 John 2:15. Do not love the world nor the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. Obviously world here does not mean everybody whoever lived but the world system. We are to love worldly functions and to separate ourselves from these functions.

We know that we are of God, and that the whole world lies in the power of the evil one.[1 John 5:19]

Here is the words ‘whole world’. So, are even the saved under the power of the evil one? Absolutely not. So, ‘whole world’ here means the lost, as they are the ones under Satan’s control.

(Stepping away from pointless arguments)
Again, I'm not trying to change you beliefs. Rather trying to understand what you believe and how.

SovereignGrace · Mar 24, 2020

Jane_Doe22 said:
(Stepping away from pointless arguments)
Again, I'm not trying to change you beliefs. Rather trying to understand what you believe and how.

It’s not pointless. I showed you that ‘world‘ and ‘whole world’ do not mean everybody whoever lived, and now you’re stepping away.

XRose · Mar 24, 2020

Preacher4Truth said:
Nope. God never assumed they would keep his commandments.

He knew the opposite to be true. Hence this is why his Son was slain before the foundation of the world; Ephesians 1.

WHAT! Jesus dead before creation! Satan loves you and your delusions!

XRose · Mar 24, 2020

SovereignGrace said:
It’s not pointless. I showed you that ‘world‘ and ‘whole world’ do not mean everybody whoever lived, and now you’re stepping away.

You nedd to delete that quote from Sproul who was so ignorant of Bible doctrine that he claims he was going to fly off to heaven when he died!
R.C. Sproul
“The gospel is the power of God. It does not depend upon me and my faithfulness. If it did we would all be lost. It is God’s power to keep, to justify and to sanctify and to glorify—to take us right into heaven itself. . . nothing can stop it.”

Preacher4Truth · Mar 24, 2020

XRose said:
WHAT! Jesus dead before creation! Satan loves you and your delusions!

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! God never thought "Oh, they will obey me! I just know it!"

Where did I say that Jesus was dead before creation???? That's not what I stated.

Jane_Doe22 · Mar 24, 2020

SovereignGrace said:
It’s not pointless. I showed you that ‘world‘ and ‘whole world’ do not mean everybody whoever lived, and now you’re stepping away.

Except you did not show me that at all.
Nobody is convince of truthfulness via arguments on forums, they are pointless.

I am trying really really hard to understand what you believe & how. I'm also trying really really hard to be respectful of these belief I so passionately disagree with ( trying here does not always mean succeeding, and I do apologize for that).

Ezra · Mar 24, 2020

SovereignGrace said:
An innocent person is one who hasn’t sinned. And if they’re sinless, they can’t die.

strange fire

Eternally Grateful · Mar 24, 2020

SovereignGrace said:
If you flat line and crash to the floor and someone does CPR on you and revive you, and you thank the person later on for saving your life, did you choose to thank him? Sure you did. When God quickened us, we were given faith and repentance, exercised them, were saved, and praised Him for saving us.

He still did not chose

did he have a chance to chose to say no?

of course not he did not chose the person who did cpr chose for them

Preacher4Truth · Mar 24, 2020

Jane_Doe22 said:
Except you did not show me that at all.
Nobody is convince of truthfulness via arguments on forums, they are pointless.

This isn't true at all. I've witnessed several come to the truth via apologetics on forums.

I am trying really really hard to understand what you believe & how. I'm also trying really really hard to be respectful of these belief I so passionately disagree with ( trying here does not always mean succeeding, and I do apologize for that).

I am sorry, but I believe the above is a tad disingenuous. Why? Because he's been very plain and upfront, yet you keep asking him to tell you what he believes. If it's pointless, why ask?

XRose · Mar 24, 2020

Preacher4Truth said:
I never stated God has saved you because he has not willed to save "Jane." However, if you come to do what God awaits for his elect 2 Peter 3:9 that is, to come to repentance, he will save you. This isn't my logic, this is Biblical doctrine.

Hold on! You are saying repentance is necessary to be saved?
Maybe in your confessional box - but out in the real world a person is saved purely by believing Jesus is the son of GOD!
A believer will no doubt repent: Repentance is the activity of reviewing one's actions and feeling contrition or regret for past wrongs, which is accompanied by commitment to and actual actions that show and prove a change for the better.

Eternally Grateful · Mar 24, 2020

SovereignGrace said:
You act as if this is a bad thing that God quickens them and saves them all by Himself.

No

you said they chose

I am proving to you they did not chose

my problem is not with god. It’s with your explanation

Jane_Doe22 · Mar 24, 2020

Preacher4Truth said:
This isn't true at all. I've witnessed several come to the truth via apologetics on forums.

Going to respectfully 100% diagree with you there.

Preacher4Truth said:
I am sorry, but I believe the above is a tad disingenuous. Why? Because he's been very plain and upfront, yet you keep asking him to tell you what he believes. If it's pointless, why ask?

Please tell me plainly about the people God predestined to Hell & eternal torture, with no chance of salvation ever. Even plainly acknowledge that they exist.

XRose · Mar 24, 2020

SovereignGrace said:
In your schema, it’s no better. You believe God created billions of ppl He knew that no matter what He did for them, they’d reject them and end up in hell, and He created them anyways. You system still has God creating billions He knew would be cast into hell.

It's not Jane Does system it's GOD's system.
Your pretentious contentious trolling and your quoting Sprouls lie about going to heaven show you lack any gift of holy spirit.

Jane_Doe22 · Mar 24, 2020

XRose said:
It's not Jane Does system it's GOD's system.
Your pretentious contentious trolling and your quoting Sprouls lie about going to heaven show you lack any gift of holy spirit.

Rose, let us all try to be respectful of people & beliefs even when there's disagreements.

XRose · Mar 24, 2020

SovereignGrace said:
No He hasn’t. He gave the Jews in the OT the Law to keep and a sacrificial system to atone for their sins, and a high priest to intercede for them.
Show me where He gave any other nation a sacrificial system that atoned for their sins and a high priest to intercede for them. You won’t find it, but search for it anyways.

Once again you reveal you lack any gift of holy spirit.
FYI GOD didn't choose any nation until after The Tower of Babel confusion of languages and breakup of the landmass.
Then he chose Abram because Abram was descended from Eve and carried her SEED-DNA.
All other people became pagans no matter where on Earth they ended up. Most are still pagans.
The Bible is only concerned with Eve's SEED-DNA and Satan's attempts to kill them all off to prevent the birth of Jesus who is Eve's final SEED who will destroy Satan.
Jesus revealed that despite giving the Jews a set of laws to live and be acceptable by and a system of atonement the Jews had lost their position as the Chosen Race due to them constantly worshipping idols and killing GOD's prophets.

XRose · Mar 24, 2020

Preacher4Truth said:
LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! God never thought "Oh, they will obey me! I just know it!"
Where did I say that Jesus was dead before creation???? That's not what I stated.

#713 you wrote: 'He knew the opposite to be true. Hence this is why his Son was slain before the foundation of the world; Ephesians 1.'

Eternally Grateful · Mar 24, 2020

XRose said:
Once again you reveal you lack any gift of holy spirit.
FYI GOD didn't choose any nation until after The Tower of Babel confusion of languages and breakup of the landmass.
Then he chose Abram because Abram was descended from Eve and carried her SEED-DNA.
All other people became pagans no matter where on Earth they ended up. Most are still pagans.
The Bible is only concerned with Eve's SEED-DNA and Satan's attempts to kill them all off to prevent the birth of Jesus who is Eve's final SEED who will destroy Satan.
Jesus revealed that despite giving the Jews a set of laws to live and be acceptable by and a system of atonement the Jews had lost their position as the Chosen Race due to them constantly worshipping idols and killing GOD's prophets.

Wow

where do you come up with this stuff?

Anthony D'Arienzo · Mar 24, 2020

Jane_Doe22 said:
Quite the opposite: Adam didn't create Bob. Adam had no power to save Bob. Adam didn't create the Tree of Good and Evil. Adam has no sovereignty here at all (to use a Calvinist term).

God, created the Tree, knowing what would happen. God did not stop anything. If you believe everything in God's design, and that God is all-knowing all-powerful: God created Bob to splat. That is God's sovereign decision.

We do not blame God for.mans sin.
God created everything good Gen1:31.
Men are born dead in sin and condemned .
You fail to understand this fact Jane. You cannot get to truth starting from error.

Regeneration before or after saving faith

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