The False Doctrine of a 7-year Tribulation

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Bobby Jo

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There are even more serious problems with what you are posting, since it makes no sense.

Understandable, for someone with a low reading comprehension and/or low I.Q. Authors write so that readers understand, but you apparently accuse GOD of writing nonsense:

4:3 If the priest that is anointed H4899 do sin according to the sin of the people; then let him bring for his sin, which he hath sinned, a young bullock without blemish unto the LORD for a sin offering.[2]

[2] H4899 - mashiyach - Strong's Hebrew Lexicon (KJV)


Perhaps your problem isn't comprehension and/or I.Q., -- it's more spiritual.
Bobby Jo
 
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Dcopymope

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Yes, the sixth seal. But that is at the end of the GT, because the first seal is the Antichrist.

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Can't say I agree with that assessment at all. Its not hard to understand what the four horsemen actually are because Jesus Christ actually identified them for us in his Olivet Discourse, its not referring to any one person. Jesus describes the four horsemen as the "beginning of sorrows", not the beginning of the Great Tribulation. Remember, I said before that his discourse wasn't meant to be interpreted as a 100% blow by blow description of the last days, but a brief description of it, because Jesus did not receive the full prophecy of the end times from God at that point. All you have to do is compare and contrast and you will see that this was in fact clearly the case.


The White Horse:

(Matthew 24:3-5) "¶ And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? {4} And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. {5} For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many."

(Revelation 6:1-2) "And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see. {2} And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer."

The Red Horse:

(Matthew 24:6-7) "And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. {7} For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom:

(Revelation 6:3-4) "And when he had opened the second seal, I heard the second beast say, Come and see. {4} And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword."

The Black/Pale Horses:

(Matthew 24:7) ":and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places."

(Revelation 6:5-6) "And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast say, Come and see. And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand. {6} And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine."

(Revelation 6:7-8) "And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see. {8} And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth."

So while he doesn't really mention the Black Horse specifically here, you can still clearly see what he is actually referring to in revelation with the other three horses, which he describes as the beginning of sorrows.

(Matthew 24:8-14) "All these are the beginning of sorrows. {9} Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name’s sake. {10} And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. {11} And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. {12} And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. {13} But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. {14} And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come."

At which point he begins discussing THE Antichrist, the abomination of desolation who rises out of the sea as "the beast".

The Great Tribulation:

(Matthew 24:15-22) "When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) {16} Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: {17} Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: {18} Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. {19} And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! {20} But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: {21} For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. {22} And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect’s sake those days shall be shortened

But its from this point in his discourse that you start to see a difference in the order of events as they are described in Revelation. In his discourse, he says the Great Tribulation arrives first before the Day of the Lord. But in revelation, John says the Day of the Lord comes first with the opening of the sixth seal before the Great Tribulation period.

(Matthew 24:29-31) "¶ Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: {30} And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. {31} And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."

(Revelation 6:12-17) "And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; {13} And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. {14} And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. {15} And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; {16} And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: {17} For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?"

In other words, the Day of the Lord does not trigger the second resurrection, but his wrath. The second resurrection doesn't come into the picture until the last trumpet, and before the seven vials judgement.
 

Keraz

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But its from this point in his discourse that you start to see a difference in the order of events as they are described in Revelation. In his discourse, he says the Great Tribulation arrives first before the Day of the Lord. But in revelation, John says the Day of the Lord comes first with the opening of the sixth seal before the Great Tribulation period.
Your parallel of Jesus talk on the Mt of Olives, with the Four Seals of Revelation 6:1-8, is good and correct. The world has experienced all those troubles and disasters, all thru this age.
Then the Fifth Seal plainly refers to all the Christian martyrs since Stephen. They must wait until their total number is completed; when Jesus Returns, after all the prophesied events of Revelation up until Rev 19:11, have occurred.

So for us today; the next prophesied event is the Sixth Seal world changer. The sudden destruction of the Lord's enemies. We should not be in the dark about it. 1 Thessalonians 5:3-4
 

Dcopymope

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Your parallel of Jesus talk on the Mt of Olives, with the Four Seals of Revelation 6:1-8, is good and correct. The world has experienced all those troubles and disasters, all thru this age.
Then the Fifth Seal plainly refers to all the Christian martyrs since Stephen. They must wait until their total number is completed; when Jesus Returns, after all the prophesied events of Revelation up until Rev 19:11, have occurred.

So for us today; the next prophesied event is the Sixth Seal world changer. The sudden destruction of the Lord's enemies. We should not be in the dark about it. 1 Thessalonians 5:3-4

Yes, the Day of the Lord is primarily what we should be looking forward to, because then we'll know that the stench is really about to his the fan so to speak. On the lead up to this, I believe other things we should be expecting is the formulation of a global digital currency along with the worlds nations being formed into economic trade blocs much like the European Union, ten of them to be exact, going by the ten horns of the beast.
 

Stranger

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No, the Old Testament has dispensations also. As far as "dispensations" I was never taught anything more that Adam to Moses; Moses to Pentecost; and Pentecost to the second coming. I was just breaking it down in our New Covenant to different sub-dispensations, though not even sure they qualify. I've never considered myself a "dispensationalist," just see changes in the Bible. I'm more of a "covenant" kinda gal. :D

I see, and that is good in my view. Though you do not want to identify with dispensationalism, you do see 'changes' that dispensationalist's might call 'dispensations'.

Glad to hear your emphasis on the covenants also. As covenants are important in the dispensations also. Though I'm sure your understanding of covenants or the covenants in place, may be different than dispensationalist's.

Stranger
 

Stranger

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So you believe those who come out of the GT who didn't take the mark of the beast will not be raptured at the second coming?

I believe the beginning of the 70th week is the beginning of the GT also, but believe the rapture is at the end for both Jew and Gentiles alike. I don't like the inference that there is a Gentile church and Israel, though do see that the beginning of the 70th week marks the time when only Jews will be newly saved and be counted with the Church, and no more Gentiles will come into the Church.

I believe the Jews who live during the Tribulation will make up national Israel. The Gentiles who survive the Tribulation will make up the saved nations who enter the Millennial reign of Christ on this earth. So, no, I do not see a Rapture occurring at the Second Coming.

You must account for the Gentiles saved in (Rev. 7:9-14) during the Tribulation.

So, I believe the Church is always both Jew and Gentile, though predominately Gentile. But that Church of Jesus Christ is removed before the Tribulation. So now, the saved Jew is part of national Israel. The saved Gentile is part of the Tribulation saints, and the saved nations that enter the Millennium. The Church which is made up of both Jew and Gentile is in Heaven at this time and will return with Christ.

Stranger
 

CharismaticLady

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You must account for the Gentiles saved in (Rev. 7:9-14) during the Tribulation.

It just says they come out of the Great Tribulation, and I see them as already Christians going into the GT. Look at the letters to the seven churches. Those that do not "overcome" are the ones being martyred in the GT, because they will have to stop straddling the fence and playing with sin. If they are cowards and do not die for Christ, they will be damned.

Those that do not overcome and die prior to the GT, like throughout history will be those whom Jesus will say, "I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!"
 

CharismaticLady

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I see, and that is good in my view. Though you do not want to identify with dispensationalism, you do see 'changes' that dispensationalist's might call 'dispensations'.

Glad to hear your emphasis on the covenants also. As covenants are important in the dispensations also. Though I'm sure your understanding of covenants or the covenants in place, may be different than dispensationalist's.

Stranger

Every post on dispensationalism has thrown me for a loop. I don't know if they mean cessationism or what? It does not affect me or how I interpret the Bible. I believe we are in the New Covenant, and just like the Old Covenant, nothing changes inside the covenant. (not a jot or a tittle)
 

Enoch111

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but you apparently accuse GOD of writing nonsense:
No, Bobby Jo, I am accusing YOU of writing nonsense, since you have taken a verse pertaining to a priest out of context and spun a yarn.

And then to top it off with this flaming shows what is really in your heart: "Perhaps your problem isn't comprehension and/or I.Q., -- it's more spiritual."

I generally ignore your nonsensical posts and will continue to do so.
 

Enoch111

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...It just says they come out of the Great Tribulation
Since the whole Church does not experience the judgments reserved for the unbelieving and the ungodly, what that verse is saying is that those have escaped out of the Great Tribulation ("the hour of temptation").

This is confirmed by Revelation 3:10, which prefigures the Church: Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
 

CharismaticLady

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Since the whole Church does not experience the judgments reserved for the unbelieving and the ungodly, what that verse is saying is that those have escaped out of the Great Tribulation ("the hour of temptation").

This is confirmed by Revelation 3:10, which prefigures the Church: Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

No, only the Philadelphia church age of the last four ages is protected during the GT; they are still here but not harmed. Harm and martyrdom is what they escape. The only ones martyred are those who do not overcome sin in the Church from Thyatira through Laodecia and are still alive when the GT starts. No Gentiles will become newly saved during the GT, only Jews who are also protected.
 
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Bobby Jo

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... I am accusing YOU of writing nonsense, ...

EXACTLY CORRECT, as already provided TWICE now:

Lev. 4:3 If the priest that is anointed H4899 do sin according to the sin of the people; then let him bring for his sin, which he hath sinned, a young bullock without blemish unto the LORD for a sin offering.[2]

[2] H4899 - mashiyach - Strong's Hebrew Lexicon (KJV)


... and it's ok if you think Scripture is "nonsense". Many people in spiritual darkness agree with you. -- Just not me.
Bobby Jo


To All,

MANY in this forum are INDOCTRINATED. They believe what they're taught regardless of what Scripture says. It's like being in a CULT, and in fact has MANY of the same attributes. They're programmed to accept one perspective and cannot evaluate, consider, contemplate, or condone any other view.

This is analogous to the GLOBAL WARMING "science" where any evidence which contradicts the hypothesis is either rejected or tampered with. And any scientist who dares contradict the GLOBAL WARMING premise is castigated, excluded, and ultimately destroyed.


It takes courage to actually discuss and debate, but in their world -- fear and cowardice reign supreme.
Bobby Jo
 
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Stranger

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It just says they come out of the Great Tribulation, and I see them as already Christians going into the GT. Look at the letters to the seven churches. Those that do not "overcome" are the ones being martyred in the GT, because they will have to stop straddling the fence and playing with sin. If they are cowards and do not die for Christ, they will be damned.

Those that do not overcome and die prior to the GT, like throughout history will be those whom Jesus will say, "I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!"

I don't understand your statements. You said, "Those that do not overcome are the ones being martyred". You then say, "If they are cowards and do not die for Christ, they will be damned."

But, you stated that these are Christians 'going into' the Tribulation. If they are Christians then they are saved and overcomers. (1 John 5:5)

In other words, they can't be 'not overcomers' and 'Christian' at the same time. The point being, there are Gentiles who are saved during the Tribulation. (Rev. 7:13-17) Not just Jews.

Stranger
 

n2thelight

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The seven years have been cut short to 5 months,ie,the time of the locust as per Rev.Also do understand that there are two tribulations

Revelation 9:1 "And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit [pit of the abyss]."

The "star" that falls to the earth is the star of Isaiah 14. The star is "Lucifer", who will be the Antichrist once he arrives on earth. Satan is given the key, or authority to the bottomless pit, for this is where Satan's fallen angels are held.

Revelation 9:2 "And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit

Revelation 9:3 "And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power."

This locust army that comes upon the earth is Satan's army of demonic forces. They are the fallen angels, and demons, both coming with Satan, and those that are already here upon the earth.

The "power" in the Greek, is "exousia"; it means "authority", or delegated power by God to them. It is the right to carry out the wrath of God, in His [God's] behalf. When they strike, or exert their power on the deceived, it is a spiritual power, as we see in Ephesians 6:10-20. This is because we are in a spiritual battle against Satan and His forces.

Revelation 9:5 "And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man."

God has given us a good clue as to how long Satan will rule as Antichrist. That time is five months. The book of Joel describes in detail how this method of the locust works. The result of that torment is exactly as the torment of the scorpion that "striketh a man". So lets try to understand more of both the locust, and the scorpion.

This is that locust army of Satan that will deliver up the sons and daughters to prophecy against the Antichrist, as spoken of in Joel 2, and also by Peter in Acts 2. What these sons and daughters say will only be those words that the Holy Spirit speaks through them.

Joel said this locust army would march forward, and not miss a stride. Remember, it's not "locust" but men, and the battle which this army enters is a spiritual battle, where the victory is in their deception. Their battle cry is with words like love, joy, peace, brotherhood, equality, and a mixture of words promising peace and prosperity. In the Antichrist rule [the five months] everyone will be satisfied, as long as they continue to yield to this Antichrist.

The time "locust" has four stages, as stated in Joel 1. The part of the locust that exists in the swarming stage is five months. That five months staging period is always between May and September; so God is even giving us the season, or time frame when Antichrist will appear. And by that season, we have an hint of when the seventh trumpet will sound, and Jesus Christ will appear. However that instant is known only to the Father.

Jesus warned that "we pray that ye not be taken out of season", in Mathew 24:20, and Mark 13:18. This is to alert us that being taken out of season means we have been deceived and fallen for the wrong Christ [Antichrist]. The Antichrist will rule between Passover, and the feast of the tabernacles [trumpets].

Why then the torment as that of a scorpion? This locust army will use the same methods a scorpion uses to attack it's prey and render it's prey harmless, during this five months period. Satan and his locust army will not be in any special form, but will appear exactly as a man, as we do. Satan was in the form of a man in the Garden of Eden when he tempted Eve, and his fallen angels appeared as men in Genesis 6:1-8, when they married the daughters of men and had "children" [Nephelim] by them.

The scorpion has a tail with a stinger in the tail. When they strike their prey, he sneaks up to it's prey and infects it's poison into the victim. Near it's mouth, it has a set of pinchers where it latches on to it's victim and pulls it to it's mouth. This is important, because the scorpion has no stomach, so it cannot digest it's own food within itself. Therefore the scorpion stings with the poison of it's tail to paralyze the victim, and then it vomits it's digestive juices [acids] into the body of the victim, then the victim's skin and body actually become the scorpion's stomach.

The acids turn everything it touches into mush. Then the scorpion inhales the mush from the victim's body and is gone. The victim is left defenseless from the beginning of the scorpion's strike, because the poison from the tail rendered the circulatory system and nervous system totally paralyzed, while the digestive acids turned the body to mush. Once stung by a scorpion, instantly you have no defense. You can't fight, run, or even think. You lay helpless to the devouring process of the scorpion.

Now that we see how the scorpion attacks, and the methods used by them; let's apply their methods, to Satan and that of this locust army. Satan and his army of fallen angels will take the lies [traditions] within your religion, and the false teaching that you believe to be true; and use it against you. All religions, Christian and otherwise, will be approached on the level and beliefs of their own understanding. They will use the doctrines of their choosing, and through that, the spiritual darts of lies and deception will come.

Like the scorpion uses your body for it's battle, and attack, so the angels of the locust army [not human] will use your mind as it's battleground. That is why you must be sealed in your mind [see verse 4] and with the proper armor on, which again is in Ephesians 6:10-20. Your battle is a spiritual one with the king of all demons, Satan, and he is ready for you.

The Antichrist has the authority from God, and the right to do business on earth, from the giver of all authority. He knows all your weaknesses, and he knows the Word as well as any theologian. Satan is set to do battle in your mind; and if your relying on false doctrine; like the rapture theory, your gone before the battle starts. If Revelation is still a mystery to you, you don't have a prayer of a chance.

You are about to go against the master of all deception, and the truth of God's word is the only thing Satan can't fight against. That is because the truth written in God's Word sets the limits God placed upon him as the Antichrist. How are you doing, friend?

The great apostasy is now taking place, and well underway. It is being put in place by Satan's kids, the "Kenites", doing the interpretation of God's Word for you if you allow them. They have a club, and it is easy to join; you just accept their dogma. Part of it is given through the "World Council of Churches", and the other parts are in any church that allows it's doctrine to vary even the slightest into false teaching.

Remember, only the "sealed of God", in your mind will allow your escape from all of the Antichrist's deceptions.

revelation9

 

Stranger

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Every post on dispensationalism has thrown me for a loop. I don't know if they mean cessationism or what? It does not affect me or how I interpret the Bible. I believe we are in the New Covenant, and just like the Old Covenant, nothing changes inside the covenant. (not a jot or a tittle)

You say posts on dispensationalism throw you for a loop. Yet you adhere to certain dispensations in Scripture. You say you emphasize covenants, as dispensationalism does also. And, dispensationalism recognizes we are now under the New Covenant also. Do you agree with my basic definition of 'dispensation' that I gave in post #(282)?

I don't know exactly what you mean by 'cessationism' concerning dispensations. I will say this. The Dispensation of Law has ceased as we are under the Dispensation of Grace. Nothing changes under the Mosaic Law. What has changed is the overall order that God puts in place that man is responsible to. So, the Law ran from Sinai to Pentecost.

Another example is what Dispensationalist's call the first dispensation. That is the dispensation of Innocence. Man's responsibility to God was to care for the garden and subdue the earth and to not eat of the Tree of knowledge of good and evil. With the fall of Adam that dispensation ceased. Innocence was no longer present. The earth was cursed. Thus the Dispensation of Innocence is from the creation of man to the fall.

Stranger
 

Bobby Jo

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The seven years have been cut short to 5 months,ie,the time of the locust as per Rev. Also do understand that there are two tribulations
...

Silly people, with their silly imaginations.

Bobby Jo


To All,

1. The purported "seven-year-tribulation" is from a FALSE rendering of Daniel 9, which has NOTHING to do with the tribulation except that AFTER the "seventy durations" the a/c "shall come".

2. Rev. 13:5 correctly stipulates the tribulation as 42 months, -- and according to my best understanding of the Bible Prophecy time-line we're nearly two years into that 3 1/2 year duration.

3. MANY people don't understand Scripture, but assert their silly doctrines, i.e., "5-month tribulation", which defy Scripture, 42 months.​

All of which goes to show that with such nonsense, it would appear that WE ARE in the tribulation.
Bobby Jo
 
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CharismaticLady

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I don't understand your statements. You said, "Those that do not overcome are the ones being martyred". You then say, "If they are cowards and do not die for Christ, they will be damned."

But, you stated that these are Christians 'going into' the Tribulation. If they are Christians then they are saved and overcomers. (1 John 5:5)

In other words, they can't be 'not overcomers' and 'Christian' at the same time. The point being, there are Gentiles who are saved during the Tribulation. (Rev. 7:13-17) Not just Jews.

Stranger

Read the letters.
 

CharismaticLady

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You say posts on dispensationalism throw you for a loop. Yet you adhere to certain dispensations in Scripture. You say you emphasize covenants, as dispensationalism does also. And, dispensationalism recognizes we are now under the New Covenant also. Do you agree with my basic definition of 'dispensation' that I gave in post #(282)?

I don't know exactly what you mean by 'cessationism' concerning dispensations. I will say this. The Dispensation of Law has ceased as we are under the Dispensation of Grace. Nothing changes under the Mosaic Law. What has changed is the overall order that God puts in place that man is responsible to. So, the Law ran from Sinai to Pentecost.

Another example is what Dispensationalist's call the first dispensation. That is the dispensation of Innocence. Man's responsibility to God was to care for the garden and subdue the earth and to not eat of the Tree of knowledge of good and evil. With the fall of Adam that dispensation ceased. Innocence was no longer present. The earth was cursed. Thus the Dispensation of Innocence is from the creation of man to the fall.

Stranger

If you are trying to test me on dispensations, I will fail. It is Greek to me. I just know covenants. If they happen to be the same as your dispensations, so be it. I don't really care about dispensationalism. I can't be an expert in it as the word is not in the Bible to know what God thinks.