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Paul Christensen

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"With every wicked deception directed against those who are perishing, because they refused the love of the truth that would have saved them. For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie in order that judgment will come upon all who have disbelieved the truth and delighted in wickedness" (2 Thessalonias 2:10-12).

Evolution is that powerful delusion that God has sent on those who are perishing. This is why, in spite of substantive and accurate scientific evidence that totally disproves the theory, those who are committed to it will not accept it, and adamantly sticks to their belief in it.

The scary part is that there is now an outbreak of the delusion in large areas of the Christian church having the effect of alienating many young people who were brought up in Christian homes who were taught evolution in their churches and have come to the conclusion that if their leaders and teachers don't believe the Bible, why should they?

This means that there will be a much more clear division between those genuinely converted believers who believe the Bible, and those religious people professing Christianity who prefer to put the Bible aside in preference to evolution. Note that the delusion comes upon "those who are perishing". According to Scripture, many in churches are not genuinely converted to Christ and are so beyond saving that they have received the delusion so that they will believe the lie and ultimately perish.

Therefore, we who believe the Bible should stand up and call out those leaders and teachers in our churches who are teaching the lie, so that as many as possible can be saved from a future without Christ.
 

101G

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Addressing the OP only, Isaiah 29:9 "Stay yourselves, and wonder; cry ye out, and cry: they are drunken, but not with wine; they stagger, but not with strong drink.

Isaiah 29:10 "For the LORD hath poured out upon you the spirit of deep sleep, and hath closed your eyes: the prophets and your rulers, the seers hath he covered.

Isaiah 29:11 "And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed, which men deliver to one that is learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I cannot; for it is sealed:

Isaiah 29:12 "And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned.

ok, so many MISlead, but what to DO? back to Thessalonians, this time, 1 Thessalonians 5:21 "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good". well how can I prove all things? answer, Isaiah 28:7 "But they also have erred through wine, and through strong drink are out of the way; the priest and the prophet have erred through strong drink, they are swallowed up of wine, they are out of the way through strong drink; they err in vision, they stumble in judgment.
Isaiah 28:8 "For all tables are full of vomit and filthiness, so that there is no place clean.
Isaiah 28:9 "Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.
Isaiah 28:10 "For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:
Isaiah 28:11 "For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
Isaiah 28:12 "To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.
Isaiah 28:13 "But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

quick summary, Let the Holy Ghost, God, teach you.

PICJAG,
 

DPMartin

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"With every wicked deception directed against those who are perishing, because they refused the love of the truth that would have saved them. For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie in order that judgment will come upon all who have disbelieved the truth and delighted in wickedness" (2 Thessalonias 2:10-12).

Evolution is that powerful delusion that God has sent on those who are perishing. This is why, in spite of substantive and accurate scientific evidence that totally disproves the theory, those who are committed to it will not accept it, and adamantly sticks to their belief in it.

The scary part is that there is now an outbreak of the delusion in large areas of the Christian church having the effect of alienating many young people who were brought up in Christian homes who were taught evolution in their churches and have come to the conclusion that if their leaders and teachers don't believe the Bible, why should they?

This means that there will be a much more clear division between those genuinely converted believers who believe the Bible, and those religious people professing Christianity who prefer to put the Bible aside in preference to evolution. Note that the delusion comes upon "those who are perishing". According to Scripture, many in churches are not genuinely converted to Christ and are so beyond saving that they have received the delusion so that they will believe the lie and ultimately perish.

Therefore, we who believe the Bible should stand up and call out those leaders and teachers in our churches who are teaching the lie, so that as many as possible can be saved from a future without Christ.


though your observation has merit, you should understand it has always been this way through out human history and the Truth of God in the world. the enemies, and haters of God do not want any Presence of God in the world. churches have been doing things like this since there was churches see the Lord's displeasure in revelations. its been going on since Israel was in Egypt. its been going on before Noah, Enoch and was an issue in the Garden. the desire to disregard the Truth of God in the world of man, and to trust man's own judgment in the place of God's Judgement in the world, has plagued man since the first man.

those who walk with the Lord, trust the Lord, not what some one else says about the Lord or about what the Lord says.
 

DNB

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"With every wicked deception directed against those who are perishing, because they refused the love of the truth that would have saved them. For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie in order that judgment will come upon all who have disbelieved the truth and delighted in wickedness" (2 Thessalonias 2:10-12).

Evolution is that powerful delusion that God has sent on those who are perishing. This is why, in spite of substantive and accurate scientific evidence that totally disproves the theory, those who are committed to it will not accept it, and adamantly sticks to their belief in it.

The scary part is that there is now an outbreak of the delusion in large areas of the Christian church having the effect of alienating many young people who were brought up in Christian homes who were taught evolution in their churches and have come to the conclusion that if their leaders and teachers don't believe the Bible, why should they?

This means that there will be a much more clear division between those genuinely converted believers who believe the Bible, and those religious people professing Christianity who prefer to put the Bible aside in preference to evolution. Note that the delusion comes upon "those who are perishing". According to Scripture, many in churches are not genuinely converted to Christ and are so beyond saving that they have received the delusion so that they will believe the lie and ultimately perish.

Therefore, we who believe the Bible should stand up and call out those leaders and teachers in our churches who are teaching the lie, so that as many as possible can be saved from a future without Christ.
Hi Paul, a couple of things.
First, I believe in the Genesis account of creation, but I must admit, there many holes in my understanding of it. I do believe that the earth appears much older that 10,000 years. I do believe that dinosaurs existed. I don't understand how snakes can talk, or even what state that Adam & Eve were actually in at the Garden, i.e. immortal or mortal (purpose of tree of life).
My point is, i can appreciate the controversy and confusion. Again, i am a Biblical literalist, I believe implicitly with the Genesis account of creation, 6 24 hr days. But, there is a deficiency in my understanding, because I cannot explain some of facts that I pointed it. In short, I believe that God created everything with age. Man was created not a fetus, but full grown, same with the first animals and plants, and the earth and all it's environments too. All were pre-fabricated in a mature state. The rest, still working on...

Second, sometimes it's good to give people enough rope to divulge their true sentiments. This is the point of free-will, and the lack of forced censorship upon man. We are to grope for him on our own accord, un-coerced and zealously. Thus, God permits such perversions and deceptions, and even temptations, to expose the heart. When no crisis, no one knows who their true friends are. Same with God, no controversy, everyone appears innocent. If the tree of good & evil was not prohibited, do you think Adam & Eve would've ever considered themselves to be transgressors? Or the Apostles during Christ's passion, they swore that they never betray Him. Crisis and controversy expose a great deal about one's heart.
 
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Paul Christensen

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Hi Paul, a couple of things.
First, I believe in the Genesis account of creation, but I must admit, there many holes in my understanding of it. I do believe that the earth appears much older that 10,000 years. I do believe that dinosaurs existed. I don't understand how snakes can talk, or even what state that Adam & Eve were actually in at the Garden, i.e. immortal or mortal (purpose of tree of life).
My point is, i can appreciate the controversy and confusion. Again, i am a Biblical literalist, I believe implicitly with the Genesis account of creation, 6 24 hr days. But, there is a deficiency in my understanding, because I cannot explain some of facts that I pointed it. In short, I believe that God created everything with age. Man was created not a fetus, but full grown, same with the first animals and plants, and the earth and all it's environments too. All were pre-fabricated in a mature state. The rest, still working on...

Second, sometimes it's good to give people enough rope to divulge their true sentiments. This is the point of free-will, and the lack of forced censorship upon man. We are to grope for him on our own accord, un-coerced and zealously. Thus, God permits such perversions and deceptions, and even temptations, to expose the heart. When no crisis, no one knows who their true friends are. Same with God, no controversy, everyone appears innocent. If the tree of good & evil was not prohibited, do you think Adam & Eve would've ever considered themselves to be transgressors? Or the Apostles during Christ's passion, they swore that they never betray Him. Crisis and controversy expose a great deal about one's heart.
Up until the time of Darwin's theory it was a settled fact that God created the universe and the world in 6 days as stated in Genesis 1. By the way, did you know that the world, surrounded by water, was created before the sun, moon, stars, and galaxies according to Genesis 1. Evolution says that the cosmos started with a big bang and the world formed after it. So there is a big difference between evolution and Genesis 1 for a start.

I think that the fairy tales associated with evolution and other creation theories that ignore God has muddied the waters in the secular world and the church. What is sad is that church pastors, leaders, and Sunday School teachers have taught versions of evolution and has muddied the waters for many Christians. This is the reason why you are confused, and why multitudes of 20-25 year olds, brought up in Christian homes and church are walking away from churches and becoming atheists because they have lost confidence in their church mentors who have failed to teach them how to counter the evolution theories that are bombarding them at elementary, high school, and university. Because of the church's failure, they cannot give a definitive Biblical and scientific answer to the questions, and so they give up trying and take the attitude that the Bible no longer has any authority for them, and that anything goes hence we have homosexuality, abortion, casual sex, and every other godless practice in society.

The issue is that there is an attack on the authority of the Bible. The very first attack was on Eve, when the talking snake (possible, because Balaam's donkey talked to him about the angel with the sword in their path) asked Eve, "Has God really said?" sowing a doubt in Eve's mind as to whether God's word was really true - that she would die if she ate the fruit from the tree. Then the snake implied that God was lying to her when it said, "You will not die, but become like God, knowing good for evil". So, when people move away from the authority of the Bible, they become their own gods with the right to decide for themselves what is good or what is evil for them, instead of trusting God's Word.

So, the arrogant guy with the big nose who sang "It ain't necessarily so" in the nightclub that I visited in the late 1960s, was just repeating what Satan, through the talking snake originally said to Eve. So, Satan is still attacking the authority of the Bible when he inspires people to ask questions like, "Was Adam and Eve real people?", "Was there really a global Flood?", "Was the world really created in six 24hr days?", "Was Jesus Christ a real historical person?".

By the way, I am shocked at professing Christians who disagree with Jesus and Paul when they definitely refer to Adam and Eve as real people who existed from the 6th day of creation. I just wonder what kind of christianity do they believe in? The minister of a liberal church preached on the Samaritan woman and he said that the living water that Jesus spoke about was for the healing of racism between different races of people, using the example of Jesus a Jew talking to a Samaritan woman. This is a sad example of a Satan-inspired twist of Scripture being fed to uninformed people in churches today.

By the way, there are no races of people. We are all of one family, parented by two original parents, making us one human race. The differences are genetic and cultural, and no one is absolutely white or black. We are all different shades of brown, depending on the genetic adaptation of where our ancestors were situated, and how much resulting melanin was in their skin. There is no interracial marriage. When we marry, we are marrying a relative! Actually, incest was not made a violation of the law until Moses. This was to prevent deformities in offspring due to the degradation of the genetics through multiplied copies. We can see this when we used to do copies of VHS videos. Each copy was not as perfect as the one before, and after a few copies, the result looks almost out of focus. We see this when we are watching a news bulletin involving a video clip of a 1960s event and it appears to be very low definition when the original might have been high definition. Old movies on Youtube, if they are copies of copies of copies, can have that same fuzzy, out of focus appearance.

Actually this is another good evidence of man not being around for thousands of years, because if people were intermarrying close relatives all that time up to the time of Moses, then the genetic degradation would have been much more pronounced and many more deformed offspring would have occurred than was actually the case. Marrying a close relative with the basically the same genetic code causes the multiple copies of the same code because of the absence of any previous differing genetic elements that have been lost. This is why problems occur with closed communities intermarrying. What is needed is a greater range of people with more genetic elements so the problem of copying similar elements is eliminated.

At present it is legal for cousins to marry, but as time goes on, it may become necessary to outlaw even that through further degradation of the genetic elements between them.
 

Dcopymope

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@Paul Christensen

Evolution truly is and will a big be part of the "lie" Paul talked about. I go into it in my thread linked below. What I believe the lie will be in a nutshell is when what we call the supernatural or spiritual, will be "proven" by the scientific/academic establishment to be entirely natural or material. What this does is allows Satan's disciples to claim whatever they wish about our alleged origins, about how life came to be. This will be done by "proving" that the universe has no beginning. If it has no beginning, then it has no creator, which allows them to throw the process of evolution as far back into time as they see fit for it to work. The lack of time is one of the biggest enemies of evolution. As it stands now, the probability of the random, natural formation of a functioning single celled organism has about a 1 in 10^57800 chance of occurring. So removing a starting point for the universe itself will solve a lot of problems they have with evolution.

Link: The Antichrist and the alien deception
 

Jane_Doe22

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"With every wicked deception directed against those who are perishing, because they refused the love of the truth that would have saved them. For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie in order that judgment will come upon all who have disbelieved the truth and delighted in wickedness" (2 Thessalonias 2:10-12).

Evolution is that powerful delusion that God has sent on those who are perishing. This is why, in spite of substantive and accurate scientific evidence that totally disproves the theory, those who are committed to it will not accept it, and adamantly sticks to their belief in it.

The scary part is that there is now an outbreak of the delusion in large areas of the Christian church having the effect of alienating many young people who were brought up in Christian homes who were taught evolution in their churches and have come to the conclusion that if their leaders and teachers don't believe the Bible, why should they?

This means that there will be a much more clear division between those genuinely converted believers who believe the Bible, and those religious people professing Christianity who prefer to put the Bible aside in preference to evolution. Note that the delusion comes upon "those who are perishing". According to Scripture, many in churches are not genuinely converted to Christ and are so beyond saving that they have received the delusion so that they will believe the lie and ultimately perish.

Therefore, we who believe the Bible should stand up and call out those leaders and teachers in our churches who are teaching the lie, so that as many as possible can be saved from a future without Christ.
Paul, what exactly about evolution do you object too?
 

Paul Christensen

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@Paul Christensen

Evolution truly is and will a big be part of the "lie" Paul talked about. I go into it in my thread linked below. What I believe the lie will be in a nutshell is when what we call the supernatural or spiritual, will be "proven" by the scientific/academic establishment to be entirely natural or material. What this does is allows Satan's disciples to claim whatever they wish about our alleged origins, about how life came to be. This will be done by "proving" that the universe has no beginning. If it has no beginning, then it has no creator, which allows them to throw the process of evolution as far back into time as they see fit for it to work. The lack of time is one of the biggest enemies of evolution. As it stands now, the probability of the random, natural formation of a functioning single celled organism has about a 1 in 10^57800 chance of occurring. So removing a starting point for the universe itself will solve a lot of problems they have with evolution.

Link: The Antichrist and the alien deception
I am presently reading through, "Evolution, The Lie" by Ken Ham. Very informative. Ken Ham's messages on Answers In Genesis have been very interesting and helpful to me to understand the difference between evolution and creation.

Also Ray Comfort on his Living Waters Youtube channel asks very interesting questions to young people and has enhanced my understanding on how to present the gospel without thumping the Bible at them.

A good question he asks is: "Do you really believe that everything you see in the world around you came from absolutely nothing?"

Also, he asked four of the most prominent evolutionist academics to produce actual observable and testable evidence that evolution is really true, and none of them could! And these were the top evolutionists in the United States! I watched the video, and I could see them squirming and faltering as they desperately trying to answer the question.

Another good question to ask an evolutionist is: "Was there death existing in the world before or after Adam?" That's a good one to ask a theistic evolutionist who says he believes the Bible, because one answer means a denial of the Bible and the other a denial of evolution because evolution involves death of species to form new ones.
 

Paul Christensen

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Paul, what exactly about evolution do you object too?
Well, let me ask you this question: Do you believe that death existed in the world before or after Adam?

Also, can you show me one present example, observable and testable by the scientific method, of one species of animal changing into another through evolution? We are not talking about natural selection within the same species, or genetic adaption through different environments. A simple example would be a simple one-cell bacteria changing into an amoeba, or a fish changing into a lizard.
 

Jane_Doe22

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Well, let me ask you this question: Do you believe that death existed in the world before or after Adam?

Also, can you show me one present example, observable and testable by the scientific method, of one species of animal changing into another through evolution? We are not talking about natural selection within the same species, or genetic adaption through different environments. A simple example would be a simple one-cell bacteria changing into an amoeba, or a fish changing into a lizard.
Ok, I'm getting an idea of your objection. Thanks for answering.

As to myself, I am adamant believer in God & evolution, and don't find them at odds at all. Obviously I don't have a literal interpretation of the first chapters of Genesis. As you & I chatted earlier, if i were to have a literally-must-be-proven-by-scientific-evidence look at things, I would have chucked this entire faith thing out of the air lock.
 
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Paul Christensen

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Ok, I'm getting an idea of your objection. Thanks for answering.

As to myself, I am adamant believer in God & evolution, and don't find them at odds at all. Obviously I don't have a literal interpretation of the first chapters of Genesis. As you & I chatted earlier, if i were to have a literally-must-be-proven-by-scientific-evidence look at things, I would have chucked this entire faith thing out of the air lock.
You didn't get around to answering my first question.

Here is the point. Creationism is a religion based on faith, which has its object in what the Bible says about it. Evolution is also a religion based on faith, because it can't be conclusively proved by the scientific method, which is essential for anything to be proved scientifically.

So there is no need to throw your faith out of the airlock because you can't prove it by science. The reality is that you can't prove that God exists, or how the universe and our world was formed, or that by trusting in Christ you can receive eternal life, by the scientific method. This is because Christian faith isn't a science. It is a belief system - a religion. But that doesn't mean that Christian faith isn't true or real. When we believe that God is real and talks, and He gave us a written record of Himself, and His plan of salvation, then our religion is on the solid foundation of the faithfulness and integrity of God and what He has communicated to us in the Bible.

So, how about having a go at answering my first question, and then I'll tell you why I asked it.
 

Dcopymope

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I am presently reading through, "Evolution, The Lie" by Ken Ham. Very informative. Ken Ham's messages on Answers In Genesis have been very interesting and helpful to me to understand the difference between evolution and creation.

Also Ray Comfort on his Living Waters Youtube channel asks very interesting questions to young people and has enhanced my understanding on how to present the gospel without thumping the Bible at them.

A good question he asks is: "Do you really believe that everything you see in the world around you came from absolutely nothing?"

Also, he asked four of the most prominent evolutionist academics to produce actual observable and testable evidence that evolution is really true, and none of them could! And these were the top evolutionists in the United States! I watched the video, and I could see them squirming and faltering as they desperately trying to answer the question.

Another good question to ask an evolutionist is: "Was there death existing in the world before or after Adam?" That's a good one to ask a theistic evolutionist who says he believes the Bible, because one answer means a denial of the Bible and the other a denial of evolution because evolution involves death of species to form new ones.

Even an evolutionist should know you can't get something from nothing when understanding the laws of conservation of mass and energy. This is why the big bang is nonsense, and in fact has been more or less proven to be the case already.

Link: The Universe Shouldn't Exist, According to Physics

They keep coming up with dead ends about how the universe began by their own naturalistic methods, so this puts us one step closer to the fulfillment of the "lie". Another good question to ask theistic evolutionists, is how it lines up with the statements "let the earth bring forth" and "after his kind". Evolution in a nutshell claims "goo to you". I then tell these people that the term "from the dust of the earth" is as close to evolution's "molecules to man" as the Bible is going to get for them. The similarity ends there, because where it differs from evolution in a major way is in how each creature came to into existence relative to each other. God says "let the earth bring forth" each creature and sustain itself "after his kind", which means all life has a common ancestry only of its own type.

Evolution on the other hand claims all life traces its common decent to one single celled organism, which in itself came from an inorganic form, which by default requires death since it entails the need for natural selection and mutation for life to get to where it is today. For evolution to be true, theistic or otherwise, it has to be demonstrated that observed changes in a species or creature occurs due to the addition of new genetic information. If God merely "directed" evolution to occur the way he wanted it to as these so called "theists" claim, then that means that it can still happen by chance. But the only thing that's been observed is either the removal or transference of genetic information, and only to another creature of its "kind" as the Bible defines life, not to another "kind". The Bible speaks nothing about all life having a common decent to one organism.
 
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Jane_Doe22

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You didn't get around to answering my first question.
My apologies, I do distracted. I do believe that things literally dying did indeed exist before Adam. The death being brought into the world with the Fall is symbolic / spiritual in nature.
Here is the point. Creationism is a religion based on faith, which has its object in what the Bible says about it. Evolution is also a religion based on faith, because it can't be conclusively proved by the scientific method, which is essential for anything to be proved scientifically.

So there is no need to throw your faith out of the airlock because you can't prove it by science. The reality is that you can't prove that God exists, or how the universe and our world was formed, or that by trusting in Christ you can receive eternal life, by the scientific method. This is because Christian faith isn't a science. It is a belief system - a religion. But that doesn't mean that Christian faith isn't true or real. When we believe that God is real and talks, and He gave us a written record of Himself, and His plan of salvation, then our religion is on the solid foundation of the faithfulness and integrity of God and what He has communicated to us in the Bible.

So, how about having a go at answering my first question, and then I'll tell you why I asked it.
I assure you that I'm not throw my faith out of the air lock because of scientists :) My faith is not dependent on scientists / archeologists / linguists / humans of any kind.

The "God doesn't fit in a test tube and can't be proven or disproven by the scientific method" is actually a common used line for me. I don't see science & religion being at odds with each other, but rather two methods of uncovering different parts of truth.
 

Paul Christensen

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My apologies, I do distracted. I do believe that things literally dying did indeed exist before Adam. The death being brought into the world with the Fall is symbolic / spiritual in nature.

I assure you that I'm not throw my faith out of the air lock because of scientists :) My faith is not dependent on scientists / archeologists / linguists / humans of any kind.

The "God doesn't fit in a test tube and can't be proven or disproven by the scientific method" is actually a common used line for me. I don't see science & religion being at odds with each other, but rather two methods of uncovering different parts of truth.
So, you don't believe that these verses are true:
"For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive an abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ!" (Romans 5:17)
"For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive" (2 Corinthians 15:21).
"Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned" (Romans 5:12).
 

Jane_Doe22

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So, you don't believe that these verses are true:
"For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive an abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ!" (Romans 5:17)
"For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive" (2 Corinthians 15:21).
"Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned" (Romans 5:12).
As I said: The death being brought into the world with the Fall is symbolic / spiritual in nature.

Do you believe that dinosaurs are fake? :p (I'm joking/teasing)
 

DNB

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So, you don't believe that these verses are true:
"For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive an abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ!" (Romans 5:17)
"For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive" (2 Corinthians 15:21).
"Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned" (Romans 5:12).
I am extremely torn on this issue. Yes, the verses that you quoted undeniably substantiate that prior to Adam's sin, there was no death on God's earth.

But, I ask myself, had Adam not sinned, and children were propagated throughout the earth, when does the world over-populate? And if God decided to cap the number of inhabitants on the earth, then at what age do humans and animals stop growing in order to sustain an eternal existence?
Also, the notion of death would have been evident due to the vegetation that they were required to kill, in order to eat. Not to mention the repercussions of not eating....?
Plus, I believe that the concept of death was within the understanding of man, for how else would they have understood the prohibition and consequences of eating from the tree? Or, the subsequent conversation with the snake, about his denial of the imminent mortality that would occur by disobeying God's command?
And finally, what was the purpose of the Tree of Life?

Thus, I don't believe that Death was a foreign concept to man before the fall, but rather an evidential fact.
Therefore, I am compelled at this point, as @Jane_Doe22 had said, that the consequence of eating from the tree was a spiritual ramification, not a physical one.
 
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Paul Christensen

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As I said: The death being brought into the world with the Fall is symbolic / spiritual in nature.

Do you believe that dinosaurs are fake? :p (I'm joking/teasing)
No. Because I can see the photos of dinosaur skeletons in the museums.

So, (dig, dig), you are not going to die physically then one day? You will just die symbolically?

Did you hear the one about the Christian Scientist who got sick, and his pastor told him that he was not really sick but just thought he was. When he got sicker, the pastor told him that if he started thinking himself well, he would recover. A week later the man's wife came to the meeting, and the pastor asked, "How is your husband now?" The wife replied, "He took your advice last week and now he thinks he's dead!"
 

101G

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Which is greater, the deception or the deceiver?
for me the "deception" is more dangerous, because of, Isaiah 66:4 and 2 Thessalonians 2:11 &12. for we know this, or should, 2 Corinthians 2:11 "Lest Satan should get an advantage of us: for we are not ignorant of his devices".

PICJAG.
 

Jane_Doe22

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No. Because I can see the photos of dinosaur skeletons in the museums.

So, (dig, dig), you are not going to die physically then one day? You will just die symbolically?

Did you hear the one about the Christian Scientist who got sick, and his pastor told him that he was not really sick but just thought he was. When he got sicker, the pastor told him that if he started thinking himself well, he would recover. A week later the man's wife came to the meeting, and the pastor asked, "How is your husband now?" The wife replied, "He took your advice last week and now he thinks he's dead!"
We can argue interpretations till the cows come home. Doesn’t change anyone’s mind or anything else
 

Dcopymope

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I am extremely torn on this issue. Yes, the verses that you quoted undeniably substantiate that prior to Adam's sin, there was no death on God's earth.

But, I ask myself, had Adam not sinned, and children were propagated throughout the earth, when does the world over-populate? And if God decided to cap the number of inhabitants on the earth, then at what age do humans and animals stop growing in order to sustain an eternal existence?

Also, the notion of death would have been evident due to the vegetation that they were required to kill, in order to eat. Not to mention the repercussions of not eating....?

Plus, I believe that the concept of death was within the understanding of man, for how else would they have understood the prohibition and consequences of eating from the tree? Or, the subsequent conversation with the snake, about his denial of the imminent mortality that would occur by disobeying God's command?
And finally, what was the purpose of the Tree of Life?

Thus, I don't believe that Death was a foreign concept to man before the fall, but rather an evidential fact. Therefore, I am compelled at this point, as @Jane_Doe22 had said, that the consequence of eating from the tree was a spiritual ramification, not a physical one.

I'd reckon that he wouldn't have allowed it to overpopulate to start with. Not sure what you mean by the second question. There was nothing about Adam and Eve's growth rate after the fall that was different than it was before the fall. Death may have been evident to them because they saw it with animals as well. This is what some people believe, that immortality only applied to Adam and Eve, though I can't say for sure. This brings me to the purpose of the tree of life. Its purpose was exactly what God said it was for, to sustain their life. When he kicked them out of Eden, it was specifically so that they wouldn't gain access to the tree and live forever. We will see the tree of life again in New Jerusalem. John says the tree is for the "healing of the nations", so the tree is not just an allegory of something else like some claim. The ramifications is every but a physical one.

(Revelation 22:1-3) "And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb. {2} In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. {3} And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:"

(Genesis 3:22-24) "¶ And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: {23} Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken. {24} So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life."

This wouldn't be a concern to God if the ramifications were not a physical one. It was clearly granting them immortality.