BIBLE VERSIONS CAN AFFECT SALVATION

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Doug

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Absolutely not! 'And when they had preached the gospel to that city [Derbe] and made many disciples, they returned to Lystra, Iconium and Antioch, strengthening the souls of the disciples, exhorting them to continue in the faith, and saying, "We must through many tribulations enter the kingdom of God."'

These were Gentile cities, with predominately Gentile disciples, yet they were still exhorted to continue in the faith and warned that they must pass through many tribulations. There is only one people of God - believing Jew and believing Gentile together (Ephesians 2:11-22). What God has joined together, let not dispensationalism separate.

Matthew 24 is about the tribulation which is for Israel to go through to be refined. Matthew 24:14 says the gospel of the kingdom (the kingdom is at hand) will be preached then the end comes when Christ will set up his earthly kingdom, The believing Jews who endure to the end will enter the kingdom.
 

Steve Owen

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Matthew 24 is about the tribulation which is for Israel to go through to be refined. Matthew 24:14 says the gospel of the kingdom (the kingdom is at hand) will be preached then the end comes when Christ will set up his earthly kingdom, The believing Jews who endure to the end will enter the kingdom.
I disagree. The Bible is for all people at all times. Matthew 24:4-14 is an account of what will happen in the time between our Lord's ascension and His coming again. As a Gentile, I cannot rip half of the Gospels out of my Bible on the grounds that it doesn't apply to me.
 
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Heart2Soul

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I disagree. The Bible is for all people at all times. Matthew 24:4-14 is an account of what will happen in the time between our Lord's ascension and His coming again. As a Gentile, I cannot rip half of the Gospels out of my Bible on the grounds that it doesn't apply to me.
We have the Holy Spirit to teach us and guide us into all truth. The Bible says NO MAN need teach us....He will teach us. So translations can vary according to culture and language but the Holy Spirit is the one who brings the understanding of His Word to our hearts and mind.
Even those who have studied the original scrolls in Hebrew or Greek got it wrong. Jesus had to correct the Jewish Priest many times on the error of their teaching and that was their own language....no translation needed back then.
 
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Bobby Jo

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The KJV is the only trustworthy version in our English language. The rest are counterfeits. They are biased and will cause doctrinal errors.,

Case in point, using Dan. 9:25-26:

KJV: from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. 26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off


RSV: from the going forth of the word to restore and build Jerusalem to the coming of an anointed one, a prince, there shall be seven weeks. Then for sixty-two weeks it shall be built again with squares and moat, but in a troubled time. 26 And after the sixty-two weeks, an anointed one shall be cut off

These two versions disagree, with the RSV demanding TWO "anointed ones", ONE after the SEVEN; and the SECOND after the SIXTY-TWO. And I'm not that familiar with the Bible, but I don't believe that GOD sent TWO Jesus'.

Newton observed that there is NO Scriptural or Societal precedent where non-incremented numbers are used in this fashion. For example, a mile and a quarter; a cup and a half; four score and ten; are all LEGAL. But no society cites ~ a pair of shoes costing seven and sixty-two dollars. Newton said the KJV does "VIOLENCE" to Scripture, and that if GOD had intended to convey "sixty-nine" HE would have said "sixty-nine".



So if the KJV is "perfect" then PLEASE provide any precedent in Scripture or and Society to defend your preferred Version.

Bobby Jo
 

Truther

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Case in point, using Dan. 9:25-26:

KJV: from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. 26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off


RSV: from the going forth of the word to restore and build Jerusalem to the coming of an anointed one, a prince, there shall be seven weeks. Then for sixty-two weeks it shall be built again with squares and moat, but in a troubled time. 26 And after the sixty-two weeks, an anointed one shall be cut off

These two versions disagree, with the RSV demanding TWO "anointed ones", ONE after the SEVEN; and the SECOND after the SIXTY-TWO. And I'm not that familiar with the Bible, but I don't believe that GOD sent TWO Jesus'.

Newton observed that there is NO Scriptural or Societal precedent where non-incremented numbers are used in this fashion. For example, a mile and a quarter; a cup and a half; four score and ten; are all LEGAL. But no society cites ~ a pair of shoes costing seven and sixty-two dollars. Newton said the KJV does "VIOLENCE" to Scripture, and that if GOD had intended to convey "sixty-nine" HE would have said "sixty-nine".



So if the KJV is "perfect" then PLEASE provide any precedent in Scripture or and Society to defend your preferred Version.

Bobby Jo
AV1611.COM - Bible study tools and Bible version information


This site can answer questions you may have.

The KJV is the plumbline for all translations to be measured to.

A customer of mine that allows gays to congregate openly in their lifestyle officially uses your RSV version(Disciples of Christ).

It is same sex friendly.
 

Bobby Jo

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This site can answer questions you may have.

Why are people SO DISHONEST that they point elsewhere instead of taking responsibility?!?

Could it be that they HAVE NO ANSWER, -- only lies, defamations, and assassinations?
Bobby Jo


The Mona Lisa is the ORIGINAL; and the Masoretic is the ONLY "PERFECT" Version. There is NO "perfect translation", -- they ALL have their limitations.
 
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Steve Owen

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I'm not that familiar with the Bible
Hello Bobby Jo,
If you mean that you are quite a new Christian, may I encourage you not to get involved with either eschatology or Bible versions?
Keep the main thing as the main thing. 'For I determined not to know anything among you except Jesus Christ and Him crucified' (1 Corinthians 2:2). If you want to serve Christ, get to know the Bible better, Christ better and the cross better before you get tied up with less important things.
By all means use the KJV if you are confident that you understand the Shakespearean language, but don't get into KJV-onlyism which will take you away from Christ into loads of sterile arguments.
And as for eschatology: 'Watch therefore, for you do not know what hour your Lord is coming' (Matthew 24:42). Don't spend loads of time in Daniel trying to discover when Christ is coming, because, 'Of that day and hour no one knows....' People have made the most dreadful fools of themselves trying to work these things out; just be prepared, so that when He comes He will find you busy in His service.
 
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Bobby Jo

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Hello Bobby Jo,
If you mean that you are quite a new Christian, may I encourage you not to get involved with either eschatology or Bible versions. ...

Sarcasm. -- You should have realized that by my familiarity with Dan. 9, and the scholars insights which so many so-called "commentators" defy with their FALSE "Jesus Agenda" objective for this Chapter.

So now, what say YOU regarding these lies which are presented to the church as "truth"?

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Secondly, Scripture provides the precise YEAR, and the Feasts provide the precise WEEK of Jesus' return, exactly as Scripture prescribes:

1 Thess. 5:2 For you yourselves know well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. 3 When people say, “There is peace and security,” then sudden destruction will come upon them as travail comes upon a woman with child, and there will be no escape. 4 But you are not in darkness, brethren, for that day to surprise you like a thief.

Bobby Jo
 
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Steve Owen

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Sarcasm. -- You should have realized that by my familiarity with Dan. 9, and the scholars insights which so many so-called "commentators" defy with their FALSE "Jesus Agenda" objective for this Chapter.

So now, what say YOU regarding these lies which are presented to the church as "truth"?
First, I'm sorry if I upset you, but it was you who said you were not that familiar with the Bible.
Second, I don't involve myself in pointless arguments about eschatology

------------------------------------------------
Secondly, Scripture provides the precise YEAR, and the Feasts provide the precise WEEK of Jesus' return, exactly as Scripture prescribes:
Dream on.
1 Thess. 5:2
For you yourselves know well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. 3 When people say, “There is peace and security,” then sudden destruction will come upon them as travail comes upon a woman with child, and there will be no escape. 4 But you are not in darkness, brethren, for that day to surprise you like a thief.
The way not to be in darkness and taken by surprise is to take our Lord's advice and watch, 'for you do not know.....'
 

Bobby Jo

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First, I'm sorry if I upset you,
You didn't upset me. But you tried to caution me about a subject you apparently have no proficiency in. Perhaps I STARTED in eschatology, and grew into salvation. Would you that I remained in darkness rather than expose myself to Bible Prophecy? -- It fascinates the unsaved, so why not wet their appetites with ~dessert~ and then serve the healthy food in conjunction?

Dream on.
The way not to be in darkness and taken by surprise is to take our Lord's advice and watch, 'for you do not know.....'

I guess "dream on" is another way of saying that because you're asleep, the everyone should be asleep. And justifying your slumber, you disregard 1 Thess. 5.

Secondly, Jesus' audience were the people standing before him. Paul's audience is the end-times church. -- So we are called to KNOW, and I DO KNOW. :)

Bobby Jo
 
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Truther

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Why are people SO DISHONEST that they point elsewhere instead of taking responsibility?!?

Could it be that they HAVE NO ANSWER, -- only lies, defamations, and assassinations?
Bobby Jo


The Mona Lisa is the ORIGINAL; and the Masoretic is the ONLY "PERFECT" Version. There is NO "perfect translation", -- they ALL have their limitations.
This conclusion of yours means there is no perfect, inerrant word of God and Peter was wrong saying the word of God endureth forever.
 

Bobby Jo

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This conclusion of yours means there is no perfect, inerrant word of God and Peter was wrong saying the word of God endureth forever.

You rely on a Translation which has a FALSE "Jesus Agenda", and can't defend it, so now you accuse THE ORIGINAL MASORETIC TEXT?

You're much too smart for me!
Bobby Jo
 
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Truther

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You rely on a Translation which has a FALSE "Jesus Agenda", and can't defend it, so now you accuse THE ORIGINAL MASORETIC TEXT?

You're much too smart for me!
Bobby Jo
There are no original texts in existence.

Neither are there any modern men that have the ability to know exactly what the ancient Greek words mean.

We rely on the 1611 ancients to translate the ancient words accurately.

All that are left in existence are copies and copies of copies....this "original form" talk is fictitious and fake news.

If you only believe in the original autographs as authentic and the only accurate word of God, you believe in a non existent source for your Bible to be translated.
 

Doug

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I disagree. The Bible is for all people at all times. Matthew 24:4-14 is an account of what will happen in the time between our Lord's ascension and His coming again. As a Gentile, I cannot rip half of the Gospels out of my Bible on the grounds that it doesn't apply to me.

The gospel of the kingdom that was preached by Jesus and the apostles applied only to Israel. We are not looking for Jesus to establish the kingdom on earth in this dispensation. The twelve also preached to Israel to believe on the name of Jesus. Yes we are to know he is Christ and Son of God, not discarding the gospels, but we are not saved by just his name, but his redemption by the cross, his death for our sins and resurrection.
 

Bobby Jo

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There are no original texts in existence. ...

The ORIGINAL text is the Masoretic. Not the KJV. -- Please don't use anything that contradicts or doesn't accurately reflect the ORIGINAL text. And if in doubt, READ THE ORIGINAL TEXT as Written.

Silly people,
Bobby Jo


To All,

Some make arguments as though the ORIGINAL MANUSCRIPT were the issue. THERE ARE NO ORIGINAL MANUSCRIPTS. However we have the ORIGINAL Masoretic Text which is faithful to the ORIGINAL MANUSCRIPT.

But the problem is, TWO different languages will not have words with the exact same meanings. Even our own words can be virtually identical but still different, for example consider, far and distant. Seem identical, but still different, thus TWO WORDS are available for user.

And matters are made even worse when the "translator" conceives what he though the passage SHOULD INFER, and distorts/contorts the original text into something which was NEVER INTENDED.

For example: the KJV "seven and sixty-two" has NO Scriptural or Societal precedent. If the Author had intended to covey, "sixty-nine", HE would have said "sixty-nine". Therefor the RSV is correct in presenting the seven as one duration; and the sixty-two as a second duration.

Bobby Jo
 
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Truther

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The ORIGINAL text is the Masoretic. Not the KJV. -- Please don't use anything that contradicts or doesn't accurately reflect the ORIGINAL text. And if in doubt, READ THE ORIGINAL TEXT as Written.

Silly people,
Bobby Jo


To All,

Some make arguments as though the ORIGINAL MANUSCRIPT were the issue. THERE ARE NO ORIGINAL MANUSCRIPTS. However we have the ORIGINAL Masoretic Text which is faithful to the ORIGINAL MANUSCRIPT.

But the problem is, TWO different languages will not have words with the exact same meanings. Even our own words can be virtually identical but still different, for example consider, far and distant. Seem identical, but still different, thus TWO WORDS are available for user.

And matters are made even worse when the "translator" conceives what he though the passage SHOULD INFER, and distorts/contorts the original text into something which was NEVER INTENDED.

For example: the KJV "seven and sixty-two" has NO Scriptural or Societal precedent. If the Author had intended to covey, "sixty-nine", HE would have said "sixty-nine". Therefor the RSV is correct in presenting the seven as one duration; and the sixty-two as a second duration.

Bobby Jo
You just proved there are no originals per the Apostles writings. So, you like copies and copies of copies.

Now, which copies are your favorites again?
 

Paul Christensen

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What really affects our salvation is not different versions of the Bible, but whether we see ourselves as sinners who have broken most of the Ten Commandments, and outside of Christ, will come up to judgment and be found guilty and be sentenced to God's eternal prison without parole. Unless the unsaved person sees that clearly, the gospel will not be good news for him, and he will not understand exactly why Jesus came and died on the cross. If they don't see themselves as sinners, but as good people all they will do is to adopt the Christian religion to enhance the life in this world, and as soon as suffering, sickness, and persecution comes along, they will give it all up and fall away.

It is a fact that most evangelistic efforts achieve less than 5% of those making decisions for Christ actually end up in fellowship. This was shown in an evangelistic crusade, 280,000 people made decisions for Christ, but it was found that only 14,000 of them were discovered fellowshiping as members of Christian churches. The rest had gone back into the world. That meant a 5% success rate for all the time and effort that was made to get the decisions. This is the same for most evangelistic crusades, including those conducted by Billy Graham.

This is because the gospel presented is that God has a great plan for our lives, and He loves us and if we invite Jesus into our hearts, life will be happy and meaningful and we will go to heaven. But when life fails to give that happiness and meaning, most will be disillusioned, felt that they were lied to, and reject Christ and the church as a result, and it will be almost impossible for anyone else to successfully witness the gospel to them in the future.

So, in fact, it is the type of gospel that is being present is what is turning people to atheism after they have originally believed it and made a decision for Christ.

The most successful converts for Christ have been those who were presented with their sinful life as compared to the Ten Commandments, and the expectation of judgment and hell when they die. Then the gospel that shows that Jesus came and took the penalty for their sin is really good news for them, and they see the need to repent and turn from their sinful lifestyle. And, even though life turns to custard for them later, their foundation is in Christ and what He has done on the cross for them, and so they are prepared to endure the suffering and persecution that comes with the territory of being a Christian believer.

So, it has nothing significant to do with different versions of the Bible, but the version of the gospel that is being shared with them.
 
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Truther

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What really affects our salvation is not different versions of the Bible, but whether we see ourselves as sinners who have broken most of the Ten Commandments, and outside of Christ, will come up to judgment and be found guilty and be sentenced to God's eternal prison without parole. Unless the unsaved person sees that clearly, the gospel will not be good news for him, and he will not understand exactly why Jesus came and died on the cross. If they don't see themselves as sinners, but as good people all they will do is to adopt the Christian religion to enhance the life in this world, and as soon as suffering, sickness, and persecution comes along, they will give it all up and fall away.

It is a fact that most evangelistic efforts achieve less than 5% of those making decisions for Christ actually end up in fellowship. This was shown in an evangelistic crusade, 280,000 people made decisions for Christ, but it was found that only 14,000 of them were discovered fellowshiping as members of Christian churches. The rest had gone back into the world. That meant a 5% success rate for all the time and effort that was made to get the decisions. This is the same for most evangelistic crusades, including those conducted by Billy Graham.

This is because the gospel presented is that God has a great plan for our lives, and He loves us and if we invite Jesus into our hearts, life will be happy and meaningful and we will go to heaven. But when life fails to give that happiness and meaning, most will be disillusioned, felt that they were lied to, and reject Christ and the church as a result, and it will be almost impossible for anyone else to successfully witness the gospel to them in the future.

So, in fact, it is the type of gospel that is being present is what is turning people to atheism after they have originally believed it and made a decision for Christ.

The most successful converts for Christ have been those who were presented with their sinful life as compared to the Ten Commandments, and the expectation of judgment and hell when they die. Then the gospel that shows that Jesus came and took the penalty for their sin is really good news for them, and they see the need to repent and turn from their sinful lifestyle. And, even though life turns to custard for them later, their foundation is in Christ and what He has done on the cross for them, and so they are prepared to endure the suffering and persecution that comes with the territory of being a Christian believer.

So, it has nothing significant to do with different versions of the Bible, but the version of the gospel that is being shared with them.
Actually, per 2 Cor 3, the 10 commandments are called the death ministry.
We are to follow the Holy Spirit instead, rather the Jews 10 commands.
What I mean is it does not require the baptism of the Holy Ghost to keep them, so they deal with carnal, Spiritless sinners, judging them as they fail.
The Apostles were considered ministers of the Spirit, not the OT commands.
 

Paul Christensen

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Actually, per 2 Cor 3, the 10 commandments are called the death ministry.
We are to follow the Holy Spirit instead, rather the Jews 10 commands.
What I mean is it does not require the baptism of the Holy Ghost to keep them, so they deal with carnal, Spiritless sinners, judging them as they fail.
The Apostles were considered ministers of the Spirit, not the OT commands.
So, I am assuming that you are born again, and are concerned with sharing the gospel with the unsaved. How are you going to do this? Are you going to start with God loves everyone and wants to change their lives and make them happy, or are you going to show them whether they are good people or not on the basis of their compliance with the Ten Commandments.

God is going to judge us all on the basis of whether we keep the Ten Commandments or not. Those who are genuinely converted will be set free because Jesus has taken their penalty for sin on Himself.

But how is an unsaved person know that he is a sinner, and therefore not a good person and is in danger of the judgment unless you apply the Ten Commandments when you are showing him his sinfulness and what he needs to be saved from?