Baptism And The holy Spirit ???

Pianoworldstage said:

Hi

If i have a friend who is a true brother in Christ, can he baptize me?

Is it ppssible for a Christian to baptize themselves?

When does a believer receive the holy spirit, at the point of accepting Christ as Lord a saviour? Or at baptism?

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GINOLJC, don't take this the wrong way, ok. but may I ask you a few questions first before I render my answer.
1. you said that you have a, (Brother in christ). so did he witness to you the Lord Jesus?

2. did you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead.?

looking to hear from you.

PICJAG.

Pianoworldstage said:

Hi

If i have a friend who is a true brother in Christ, can he baptize me?

Is it ppssible for a Christian to baptize themselves?

When does a believer receive the holy spirit, at the point of accepting Christ as Lord a saviour? Or at baptism?

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Many here will disagree with me but:

1. No you cannot baptise yourself.

2. You should get baptised by one who has the authority to baptise. Where does your friend get that authority from?

3. There are two different ways of receiving the Holy Spirit -
a) the Spirit within for salvation and sanctifying gifts.
b) the Spirit upon for the charismatic gifts for service and ministry.

Pianoworldstage said:

Yes to both..

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well then READ, acts chapter 9 and see what what the disciple at Damascus, named Ananias did for Paul then saul, before he Saul became an apostle. there you will have your answer.

PICJAG.

Pianoworldstage said:

Hi

If i have a friend who is a true brother in Christ, can he baptize me?

Is it ppssible for a Christian to baptize themselves?

When does a believer receive the holy spirit, at the point of accepting Christ as Lord a saviour? Or at baptism?

Click to expand...

1) Absolutely he can baptize you!!
2 No examples in scripture of someone baptizing themselves. Even Jesus had John baptize Him.
3) Read acts 2:38 No one becomes a Christian until after they are baptized.
You'll hear a lot of disagreements , but believing will not save you.
Believing is what leads you to baptism, where you are forgiven of your sins, Acts 2:38 again, and receiving the Holy spirit is where your salvation begins. He is the down payment on our faith. This is the foundation where our faith begins and grows from.
Without the Holy Spirit from baptism, your not a Christian no matter what anyone tells you.
Romans 8:9, "If you have not the Spirit of Christ you are none of His.
How do you get into Christ??
Romans 6:3, "Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized, have been BAPTIZED INTO CHRIST JESUS.
"Therefore then there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus" - Romans 8:1.

You'd be surprise how many unschooled and improperly educated can't put these verses together to get the right conclusion and lead people to hell all the time!!

God bless you and be with you as you begin your walk of faith. I'm excited for you!!
My name is OLIGOS

2nd stage - Most churches will tell you that Baptism is an outward sign of an inward grace, which is a lie.

Baptism is where we are 2nd Corinthians 121-22, "Now He who establishes us in Christ, Romans 8:9 again, and anointed us is God,
who also "SEALED" (Sphragizo - Greek for to put a mark on or stamp on, to show ownership, as in this case belonging to God, or to show that the person as a Christian is "Authentic", and God recognizes them by the mark of ownership by the Holy Spirit being in that person.) us and gave us the Holy Spirit as a "PLEDGE" (arrabon - Greek for Down payment, deposit, or earnest, as in a earnest down payment on a house to hold it.).
The receiving of the Holy Spirit at baptism is where our salvation begins and is always "CONDITIONAL" until we have endured until the END, and our third stage of salvation ensures our crown of life, as Paul'

If you read Ephesians 1:13-14, " ...having ALSO believed, you were "SEALED" in Him with the holy Spirit of promise (Sound familiar?),
who is GIVEN as a "PLEDGE" (Sound familiar?)of our inheritance (We inherit the down payment of hope of our salvation in the Holy Spirit), with a view to the redemption of God's own possession - THE CHURCH OF TRUE BELIEVERS.

Seasoned by Grace said:

3) Read acts 2:38 No one becomes a Christian until after they are baptized

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not saying that you're right or wrong, but consider this,
Acts 10:44 "While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
Acts 10:45 "And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Acts 10:46 "For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
Acts 10:47 "Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
Acts 10:48 "And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

so the baptism of the Holy Spirit came upon the household before they was baptized in water.

but the burning question is was Cornelius saved already... I say yes. hence the reason for the sending of Peter to come.


so the Spirit, here in this case was poured out before water baptism.

PICJAG.

Thank you 101G
If you study the entire book of Acts and baptism in particular, you'll easily see that this was a one time event that never happened again, compared to the number of baptisms that occurred between 17 and 27 times in the book of Acts, depending on how much you understand the Greek language.
27 baptisms if you understand the koine Geek language, or simply the common language of the day that Jesus and His disciples spoke as wall as nearly the rest of the world because of 300 years earlier Alexander the great conquered nearly all the known world and demanded everyone learn to speak his favorite language - koine Greek - which 300 years later helped spread the Gospel all over the world because the whole world spoke Greek.
Isn't God AMAZING??

God bless you 101G as you grow in your faith as I have for 42 years of my 76 years.
My name is OLIGOS

Pianoworldstage said:

Hi

If i have a friend who is a true brother in Christ, can he baptize me?

Is it ppssible for a Christian to baptize themselves?

When does a believer receive the holy spirit, at the point of accepting Christ as Lord a saviour? Or at baptism?

Click to expand...

Hi PWS, as the others have pointed towards the Book of Acts, which is somewhat the definitive rule book on the process of conversion in the New Testatment, I must add that, out of the many conversions recorded, there are only two cases that include water baptism.
Philip and the Ethiopian eunuch (Acts 8:36-38), And Cornelius and his household, as the first Gentile conversion into the family of God (Acts 10:47).

Therefore, due to this reason, but even more so, the principle behind it, I don't believe that water baptism is necessary for salvation.
Faith comes by hearing, thus, it is what you believe in your heart that justifies you. Water baptism, for one, is an act of works, which should raise a doubt in your mind right away. And two, I believe that it's sole purpose is for an outward testimony for others to see, and to become intrigued towards the Gospel by the conviction displayed.
For, are you convinced that, in God's eyes, your faith and open confession in the atonement of Christ, will be nullified by your neglect of having water poured over you? I surely do not. I am not baptized.

The Holy Spirit only comes with exceptionally strong faith PWS. God has promised many things, and they are all acquired by pure faith. There are many who claim to have the Holy Spirit, but don't believe them at all, unless you see it for yourself. If you think their words are inspired, and their wisdom is God-given, accept their testimony. Otherwise, rebuke them for mocking God.

DNB said:

I must add that, out of the many conversions recorded, there are only two cases that include water baptism.

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Except for that pesky text in Acts 2:38ff where obviously many were baptized. And that pesky text that the Philippian jailer was also baptized and his household, Acts 16:33. And that pesky text where Lydia and her household were baptized, Acts 16:15. And that pesky text where Saul was baptized, Acts 9:17-19. And those pesky Corinthians in Acts 18:5-8. And those pesky Ephesians in Acts 19:1-5.

Preacher4Truth said:

Except for that pesky text in Acts 2:38ff where obviously many were baptized. And that pesky text that the Philippian jailer was also baptized and his household, Acts 16:33. And that pesky text where Lydia and her household were baptized, Acts 16:15. And that pesky text where Saul was baptized, Acts 9:17-19. And those pesky Corinthians in Acts 18:5-8. And those pesky Ephesians in Acts 19:1-5.

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@Pianoworldstage , do be careful of such assertions. You will see below that all the passages that P4T cited, not one mentions water, nor is even implied in some of them. I was clear when I said explicitly 'included water'.
Understand how there is a separation between John's baptism, and the Lord's, or the interchangeable use of Baptism (often referring to faith alone).
Thus, are you convinced that the below passages are implying with water, or that the salvific factor was due to any notion of water immersion?

Acts 19:3-6
19:3. And he said, "Into what then were you baptized?" And they said, "Into John's baptism." 4. Paul said, "John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in Him who was coming after him, that is, in Jesus." 5. When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6. And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they began speaking with tongues and prophesying.

Acts 2:37-38
2:37. Now when they heard this, they were pierced to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, "Brethren, what shall we do?" 38. Peter said to them, "Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Acts 16:31-33
16:31. They said, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household." 32. And they spoke the word of the Lord to him together with all who were in his house. 33. And he took them that very hour of the night and washed their wounds, and immediately he was baptized, he and all his household.

Acts 16:14-15
16:14. A woman named Lydia, from the city of Thyatira, a seller of purple fabrics, a worshiper of God, was listening; and the Lord opened her heart to respond to the things spoken by Paul. 15. And when she and her household had been baptized, she urged us, saying, "If you have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come into my house and stay." And she prevailed upon us.

Acts 9:17-19
9:17. So Ananias departed and entered the house, and after laying his hands on him said, "Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus, who appeared to you on the road by which you were coming, has sent me so that you may regain your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit." 18. And immediately there fell from his eyes something like scales, and he regained his sight, and he got up and was baptized; 19. and he took food and was strengthened. Now for several days he was with the disciples who were at Damascus,

Acts 18:8-8
18:8. Crispus, the leader of the synagogue, believed in the Lord with all his household, and many of the Corinthians when they heard were believing and being baptized.

DNB said:

@Pianoworldstage , do be careful of such assertions. You will see below that all the passages that P4T cited, not one mentions water. I was clear when I said explicitly 'included water'.
Understand how there is a separation between John's baptism, and the Lord's, or the interchangeable us of Baptism (often referring to faith alone).
Thus, are you convinced that the below passages are implying with water, or that the salvific factor was due to any notion of water immersion?

Acts 19:3-6
19:3. And he said, "Into what then were you baptized?" And they said, "Into John's baptism." 4. Paul said, "John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in Him who was coming after him, that is, in Jesus." 5. When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6. And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they began speaking with tongues and prophesying.

Acts 2:37-38
2:37. Now when they heard this, they were pierced to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, "Brethren, what shall we do?" 38. Peter said to them, "Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Acts 16:31-33
16:31. They said, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household." 32. And they spoke the word of the Lord to him together with all who were in his house. 33. And he took them that very hour of the night and washed their wounds, and immediately he was baptized, he and all his household.

Acts 16:14-15
16:14. A woman named Lydia, from the city of Thyatira, a seller of purple fabrics, a worshiper of God, was listening; and the Lord opened her heart to respond to the things spoken by Paul. 15. And when she and her household had been baptized, she urged us, saying, "If you have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come into my house and stay." And she prevailed upon us.

Acts 9:17-19
9:17. So Ananias departed and entered the house, and after laying his hands on him said, "Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus, who appeared to you on the road by which you were coming, has sent me so that you may regain your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit." 18. And immediately there fell from his eyes something like scales, and he regained his sight, and he got up and was baptized; 19. and he took food and was strengthened. Now for several days he was with the disciples who were at Damascus,

Acts 18:8-8
18:8. Crispus, the leader of the synagogue, believed in the Lord with all his household, and many of the Corinthians when they heard were believing and being baptized.

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I was certain you would utter the above foolishness rejecting clear deductions of Scripture and doctrine. Notice also the straw man and bearing of false witness by @DNB; I never claimed water baptism, which is clearly implied in the texts by natural deduction, 2 Timothy 2:15, were salvific.

Preacher4Truth said:

I never claimed water baptism, which is clearly implied in the texts by natural deduction, 2 Timothy 2:15, were salvific.

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Did you just contradict yourself? You never claimed water baptism was the inference in the passages that you quoted, because it is implied by natural deduction. What in the world does that mean P4T? You claimed it by your implication?????

It is clear what your point was. You are claiming that water baptism is necessary, and you attempted to prove it by the passages that you cited.
I said, the inference in those verses are not unequivocal, and that one has to be aware of the use of the word baptism in Scripture. Water is not mentioned in any of those verses, so wisdom is now required since there are several inferences for Baptism. That of John's, which was predominantly with water, and that of saving faith in the Lord, and that of the gift of the Holy Spirit. To me, the verses in discussion are referring to baptism into the Church of God, for it says explicitly, 'baptized in the name of the Lord', several times.

Seasoned by Grace said:

Thank you 101G
If you study the entire book of Acts and baptism in particular, you'll easily see that this was a one time event that never happened again, compared to the number of baptisms that occurred between 17 and 27 times in the book of Acts, depending on how much you understand the Greek language.
27 baptisms if you understand the koine Geek language, or simply the common language of the day that Jesus and His disciples spoke as wall as nearly the rest of the world because of 300 years earlier Alexander the great conquered nearly all the known world and demanded everyone learn to speak his favorite language - koine Greek - which 300 years later helped spread the Gospel all over the world because the whole world spoke Greek.
Isn't God AMAZING??

God bless you 101G as you grow in your faith as I have for 42 years of my 76 years.
My name is OLIGOS

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GINOLJC, to all, and the same to you may God contuine to bless you and give you many many more years of good health and spiritual growth.
stay blessed and stay in the Faith.

PICJAG.

Seasoned by Grace said:

1) Absolutely he can baptize you!!

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On what grounds do you claim this friend can baptise him?
Where does he get the authority to do that?

Pianoworldstage said:

Hi

If i have a friend who is a true brother in Christ, can he baptize me?

Is it ppssible for a Christian to baptize themselves?

When does a believer receive the holy spirit, at the point of accepting Christ as Lord a saviour? Or at baptism?

Click to expand...

The answers to these questions will vary greatly throughout Christianity. It's going to depend on the beliefs on each of the following:
1) What does baptism mean/do? Is it washing away Adam's sins, your own sins, just a public display of devotion, etc.
2) What role does Church fellowship/authority play in such things? Is there something structured, is it every believer gong at it wild-west style, etc.


My own answers would be:
1) Baptism is you embracing the Lord and making that formal commitment. It washes away your previous sins- the old man symbolically dying, and the new clean believer raising up.
2) Church structure and organization are important, so that His sheep can best be cared for. It's important to be baptized by a priest whom has that authority from God.

Of course, each one of those points could be many discussions themselves!

Mungo said:

On what grounds do you claim this friend can baptise him?
Where does he get the authority to do that?

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Who says he can't??
Who says he doesn't have the authority?

Seasoned by Grace said:

Who says he can't??
Who says he doesn't have the authority?

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Seasoned by Grace said:

Who says he can't??
Who says he doesn't have the authority?

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Jesus said to the apostles just before he ascended into heaven:
“All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age.” (Mt 28:18-20)

If all authority was given to Jesus, and he passed some of that authority onto the apostles (e.g. the authority to baptise) then how did this friend get it?

don't mean to get into your conversatation, but consider this,
is not Christ in us? and two is it you are christ who do the work? scripture, John 15:4 "Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. John 15:5 "I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. John 15:6 "If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:7 "If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you".

what did the Lord say?, "If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you". if we're in him and he in us HIS "WORDS" adide in us, and what did he say to them that abide in him? Matthew 28:18 "And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
Matthew 28:19 "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Matthew 28:20 "Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen".

Oh, so that's those "WORDS" of his in us.

PICJAG.