Virgin Mary Had Other Children After Jesus

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Joseph77

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Soooooo, don't say that you don't follow men instead of Christ because you just PROVED it . . .
? oopps - on accident you bear false witness, or on purpose ?

Do you think only Protestants know the truth of the anti-Christ nature of roman religion ? Nope. Many who are not Protestant also know...

All who follow Jesus, from any country or people, both Protestants(some) and non-Protestants(some) know this. Don't you ? Or, instead of following Jesus, do you still follow abominations ?
 

Grailhunter

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In post #515 - I responded to YOUR claim that:
"Not all Catholics believe that only they are saved (although they have softened that a little) but it is an official doctrine."

Sooooo, where is the "official doctrine" that says only Catholics are "saved"??
Well I am off the pope's official email list and since I know you and you will deny any and all facts, so I am only so concerned.

The Second Vatican Council's Ecumenism explains: "For it is through Christ's Catholic Church alone, which is the universal help toward salvation, that the fullness of the means of salvation can be obtained.
Catechism of the Catholic Church - IntraText

“Outside the Church there is no salvation” (extra ecclesiam nulla salus) is a doctrine of the Catholic Faith that was taught By Jesus Christ to His Apostles, preached by the Fathers, defined by popes and councils and piously believed by the faithful in every age of the Church. Here is how the Popes defined it:
Outside the Church there is no Salvation Archives - Catholicism.org


Also well-known is the Catholic teaching that no one can be saved [without] the Catholic Church. Eternal salvation cannot be obtained by those who oppose the authority and statements of the same Church and are stubbornly separated from the unity of the Church and also from the successor of Peter, the Roman Pontiff, to whom the custody of the vineyard has been committed by the Savior." Sacrament of Salvation
In an expression of the authentic Magisterium, the college of bishops further explained this doctrine in the context of Christocentric sacramental theology at Vatican II
Without the Church There Is No Salvation

"This dogma must be understood in that sense in which the Church herself understands it. For it was not to private judgment that Our Saviour gave for explanation those things that are contained in the deposits of faith, but to the teaching authority of the Church. "Now, in the first place, the Church teaches that in this matter there is a question of a most strict command of Jesus Christ. For He explicitly enjoined on his apostles to teach all nations to observe all things whatsoever He Himself had commanded. Now, among the commandments of Christ, one that holds not the least place, is that by which we are commanded to be incorporated by Baptism into the Mystical Body of Christ, which is the Church, and to remain united to Christ and to his Vicar, through whom He Himself in a visible manner governs the Church on earth.
"Therefore, no one will be saved who, knowing the Church to have been divinely established by Christ, nevertheless refuses to submit to the Church or withholds obedience from the Roman pontiff, the Vicar of Christ on earth. Not only did the Saviour command that all nations should enter the Church, but He also decreed the Church to be a means of salvation, without which no one can enter the kingdom of eternal glory."
[Letter of the S.C. of the H. Office, Aug. 8, 1949 to the Archbishop of Boston (CH 1256-7)].
SSPXAsia.com: Must we believe that outside of the Catholic Church there is no salvation?

What is to be held of the opinion that people who live outside of the Catholic Faith and Unity can inherit Eternal Life in Heaven?
"This is absolutely contrary to Catholic teaching. We know (...) that those who are invincibly ignorant of our most holy religion, and who, carefully observing the natural law and its precepts placed by God in the hearts of all men, and, disposed to obey God, lead an honest and upright life, can, with the help of divine light and grace, merit eternal life; for God, who has perfect knowledge, examines and judges the minds, the souls, the thoughts and deeds of all men, and does not permit, in his sovereign goodness and mercy, any man not culpable of willful sin to be punished with eternal torment. But this Catholic dogma is equally well known: that one cannot be saved outside the Catholic Church, and that those who knowingly rebel against the teaching and authority of the Church cannot obtain eternal salvation, nor can those who willfully separate themselves from union with the Church and with the Roman Pontiff, the successor of Peter, to whom the Saviour has entrusted the safe-keeping of his vineyard.
"The words of Jesus Christ are in fact extremely clear: 'If he will not hear the Church, let him be to thee as a heathen and a publican' (13). 'He that heareth you heareth me, and he that despiseth you despiseth me, and he that despiseth me, despiseth him that sent me' (14). 'He that believeth not will be condemned' (15). 'He that believeth not is already judged' (16). 'He that is not with me is against me and he that gathereth not with me, scattereth' (17). So the Apostle Paul says that men are subverted and condemned by their own judgment (18), and the Prince of the Apostles calls 'lying teachers them who shall bring in sects of perdition, and deny the Lord who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction' (19)". [Pope Pius IX Letter Quanto conficiamur maerore, August 10, 1863, to the Italian Episcopate (CH 242-3)].
SSPXAsia.com: Must we believe that outside of the Catholic Church there is no salvation?

The history of the doctrine that there is no salvation outside the Catholic Church
Some of the most pertinent Catholic expressions of this doctrine are: the profession of faith of Pope Innocent III (1208), the profession of faith of the Fourth Lateran Council (1215), the bull Unam sanctam of Pope Boniface VIII (1302), and the profession of faith of the Council of Florence (1442). The axiom "No salvation outside the Church" has been frequently repeated over the centuries in different terms by the ordinary magisterium.

The fact of the matter is that it has always been the pipe dream of any denomination that the beliefs in the pews adhere to the official doctrines of each specific denomination. In reality it does not happen. I am not saying that all Catholics believe that there is no salvation outside of the Catholic Church.
But then Historically...official doctrine....I am saying that. And I am also saying that in more recent times the Catholic Church has shown signs of softening of this doctrine.

Then again, like I said, I know you....and if the Pope came to your house and told you personally and handed you a document with his official seal....you would call him a liar. So I am done.
 
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Joseph77

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When, as is the case most of the time, someone's "authority", the voice they listen to,
is not Jesus,
and is opposed to Jesus besides,
they don't have what is needed for life...

Not yet anyway.

If they turn to Jesus, listen to Jesus, (and the Father, by His Grace),
and follow Jesus (instead of any abomination opposed to Jesus),
as Jesus' sheep, as written,
then as Jesus' sheep all is good and well.

But if they do not trust Jesus, they have not life.

If they follow "another voice", they are not His sheep.
 

Taken

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NOW, we're getting somewhere . . .

You admit that Jesus is GOD.
And I have also shown YOU some "verifying Scriptures" that Mary is His mother (John 2:1, John 19:26-27, Luke 1:31).

Case closed.

Yes, sadly your "case" always "begins" and "ends" with "Carnal understanding".

And anyone who does not agree with your crippled Catholic learning and Regurtation, you call a liar.

Awe.

Glory to God,
Taken
 

Taken

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That's because Paul didn't espouse heresy - but you DO.
Yours is an old heresy called "Sabbelianism (Modalism)".

(BoL said:
Yours is an old heresy called "Sabbelianism (Modalism)".)

A person who believes in Sabbelianism is baptized "only" in the name of the Father.

So with your big mouth of Accusations ...
Prove it!

Glory to God,
Taken
 

Taken

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I never accuse people who disagree with me of lying.
I only accuse those who LIE of lying.

LOL -
That in itself is 2 Lies.

Nothing new...with you;
You are BIG on Accusing others,
And small on PROVING your Accusations.

Better get your beads..

Matt 6
[7] But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.

Glory to God,
Taken
 

Taken

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Soooooooo - which one of the verse I presented showing that Mary is the mother of Jesus was "weak" in YOUR estimation??

Yeah - that's what I thought.
When people start complaining about your use of formatting - they've usually run OUT of gas . . .

LOL -

So Typical...(and laughable)
The crippled "thinker" "asks" a question and then "answers" the question. Then adds a snarky remark "to his own answer!"

LOL...since he is the only one speaking...
How funny, he "disagrees with himself"...
And then is angry when others don't agree with him.

Says a lot about how he was Taught;
having others ideas stuffed into his mind and berated if he doesn't accept their ideas.

Glory to God,
Taken
 

Mungo

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Well I am off the pope's official email list and since I know you and you will deny any and all facts, so I am only so concerned.

Part of this post is omitted as it made my response longer than the forum accepts. But it can be seen in the original post

The fact of the matter is that it has always been the pipe dream of any denomination that the beliefs in the pews adhere to the official doctrines of each specific denomination. In reality it does not happen. I am not saying that all Catholics believe that there is no salvation outside of the Catholic Church.
But then Historically...official doctrine....I am saying that. And I am also saying that in more recent times the Catholic Church has shown signs of softening of this doctrine.

Then again, like I said, I know you....and if the Pope came to your house and told you personally and handed you a document with his official seal....you would call him a liar. So I am done.

Like so many attacks on the Catholic Church your quotes are from dubious sources and/or taken out of context. Thus they do not truly reflect Catholic teaching on this topic.
Why not quote from authoritative Catholic sources?

For example the quote from Catholicism.org. This is from the St. Benedict Centre. They have a history of dissent from true Catholic teaching on this issue. I'll come back to that.

There are two quotes from the SSPX. They are schismatics. Pope Francis (and I think Pope Benedict before him) has tried to bring them back into the Church but, as far as I know, they are still in schism.

One of their quotes is from an authentic source - the quote from the Letter of the S.C. of the H. Office, Aug. 8, 1949 to the Archbishop of Boston.
Three points about this:
1. The letter starts
"This Supreme Sacred Congregation has followed very attentively the rise and the course of the grave controversy stirred up by certain associates of "St. Benedict Center" and "Boston College" in regard to the interpretation of that axiom: "Outside the Church there is no salvation."

After having examined all the documents that are necessary or useful in this matter, among them information from your Chancery, as well as appeals and reports in which the associates of "St. Benedict Center" explain their opinions and complaints, and also many other documents pertinent to the controversy, officially collected, the same Sacred Congregation is convinced that the unfortunate controversy arose from the fact that the axiom, "outside the Church there is no salvation," was not correctly understood and weighed, and that the same controversy was rendered more bitter by serious disturbance of discipline arising from the fact that some of the associates of the institutions mentioned above refused reverence and obedience to legitimate authorities."

2. A covering letter of the Archbishop of Boston states "The Supreme Sacred Congregation of the Holy Office has examined again the problem of Father Leonard Feeney and St. Benedict Center."

So you can see from this that the "St. Benedict Center" is at odds with Catholic teaching on this matter and their qiotes do not reflect such teaching

3. The quote given starts "This dogma must be understood in that sense in which the Church herself understands it." This is very important. The letter from the SC continues at some length to explain this. Two important sources discussed in the letter are the Council of Trent and the dogmatic letter which was issued by Pope Pius XII, on June 29, 1943,"On the Mystical Body of Jesus Christ". Neither of these are mentioned in your section headed "The history of the doctrine that there is no salvation outside the Catholic Church."

In conclusion your claims are seriously undermined by your dubious sources and omissions.
 

Joseph77

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You claim this,
and then proceed to stay in the company of sinners,
and to stand with/in the company of mockers (of the truth).

Why? What caused you to believe those who oppose Jesus ? To follow those who broadcast a false gospel daily to billions of souls, for centuries now?

Like so many attacks on the Catholic Church your quotes are from dubious sources and/or taken out of context. Thus they do not truly reflect Catholic teaching on this topic.
Why not quote from authoritative Catholic sources?
 

Grailhunter

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Like so many attacks on the Catholic Church your quotes are from dubious sources and/or taken out of context. Thus they do not truly reflect Catholic teaching on this topic.
Why not quote from authoritative Catholic sources?

For example the quote from Catholicism.org. This is from the St. Benedict Centre. They have a history of dissent from true Catholic teaching on this issue. I'll come back to that.

There are two quotes from the SSPX. They are schismatics. Pope Francis (and I think Pope Benedict before him) has tried to bring them back into the Church but, as far as I know, they are still in schism.

One of their quotes is from an authentic source - the quote from the Letter of the S.C. of the H. Office, Aug. 8, 1949 to the Archbishop of Boston.
Three points about this:
1. The letter starts
"This Supreme Sacred Congregation has followed very attentively the rise and the course of the grave controversy stirred up by certain associates of "St. Benedict Center" and "Boston College" in regard to the interpretation of that axiom: "Outside the Church there is no salvation."

After having examined all the documents that are necessary or useful in this matter, among them information from your Chancery, as well as appeals and reports in which the associates of "St. Benedict Center" explain their opinions and complaints, and also many other documents pertinent to the controversy, officially collected, the same Sacred Congregation is convinced that the unfortunate controversy arose from the fact that the axiom, "outside the Church there is no salvation," was not correctly understood and weighed, and that the same controversy was rendered more bitter by serious disturbance of discipline arising from the fact that some of the associates of the institutions mentioned above refused reverence and obedience to legitimate authorities."

2. A covering letter of the Archbishop of Boston states "The Supreme Sacred Congregation of the Holy Office has examined again the problem of Father Leonard Feeney and St. Benedict Center."

So you can see from this that the "St. Benedict Center" is at odds with Catholic teaching on this matter and their qiotes do not reflect such teaching

3. The quote given starts "This dogma must be understood in that sense in which the Church herself understands it." This is very important. The letter from the SC continues at some length to explain this. Two important sources discussed in the letter are the Council of Trent and the dogmatic letter which was issued by Pope Pius XII, on June 29, 1943,"On the Mystical Body of Jesus Christ". Neither of these are mentioned in your section headed "The history of the doctrine that there is no salvation outside the Catholic Church."

In conclusion your claims are seriously undermined by your dubious sources and omissions.
You so funny. You got to do much better than that.
First off not an attack.
Secondly I love Catholics.
Thirdly I supplied several references.
And finally and most importantly....you are left without a rebuttal. Where is your "official" information that says that the Catholic Church's official position is that salvation is possible in Protestant denominations.
 
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BreadOfLife

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? oopps - on accident you bear false witness, or on purpose ?

Do you think only Protestants know the truth of the anti-Christ nature of roman religion ? Nope. Many who are not Protestant also know...

All who follow Jesus, from any country or people, both Protestants(some) and non-Protestants(some) know this. Don't you ? Or, instead of following Jesus, do you still follow abominations ?
If you're a non-Catholic, non-Orthodox Christian - then you're a Protestant. However - you MAY belong to one of thousands of offshoot quasi-Christian groups that are not Christian at all.
Of course - I'm only assuming that you're a Christian based on your profile.

One thing for sure is that you're anti-Catholic positions are fairly ignorant and common.
You should feel right at home around here . . .
 

Joseph77

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I am right at home living daily full of righteousness, peace and joy as written in Scripture, quite contrary to the ungodly position of the world's religions.
I am right at home living in union, echad(one), with all Jesus' disciples,
as Jesus Says in John 17
and reveals throughout all Scripture.
I am right at home living outside the darkness of those deceived by the devil, yes.
Living daily with all those who walk in the LIGHT, JESUS, following Jesus, with His sheep.
 

BreadOfLife

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Well I am off the pope's official email list and since I know you and you will deny any and all facts, so I am only so concerned.

The Second Vatican Council's Ecumenism explains: "For it is through Christ's Catholic Church alone, which is the universal help toward salvation, that the fullness of the means of salvation can be obtained.
Catechism of the Catholic Church - IntraText

“Outside the Church there is no salvation” (extra ecclesiam nulla salus) is a doctrine of the Catholic Faith that was taught By Jesus Christ to His Apostles, preached by the Fathers, defined by popes and councils and piously believed by the faithful in every age of the Church. Here is how the Popes defined it:
Outside the Church there is no Salvation Archives - Catholicism.org


Also well-known is the Catholic teaching that no one can be saved [without] the Catholic Church. Eternal salvation cannot be obtained by those who oppose the authority and statements of the same Church and are stubbornly separated from the unity of the Church and also from the successor of Peter, the Roman Pontiff, to whom the custody of the vineyard has been committed by the Savior." Sacrament of Salvation
In an expression of the authentic Magisterium, the college of bishops further explained this doctrine in the context of Christocentric sacramental theology at Vatican II
Without the Church There Is No Salvation

"This dogma must be understood in that sense in which the Church herself understands it. For it was not to private judgment that Our Saviour gave for explanation those things that are contained in the deposits of faith, but to the teaching authority of the Church. "Now, in the first place, the Church teaches that in this matter there is a question of a most strict command of Jesus Christ. For He explicitly enjoined on his apostles to teach all nations to observe all things whatsoever He Himself had commanded. Now, among the commandments of Christ, one that holds not the least place, is that by which we are commanded to be incorporated by Baptism into the Mystical Body of Christ, which is the Church, and to remain united to Christ and to his Vicar, through whom He Himself in a visible manner governs the Church on earth.
"Therefore, no one will be saved who, knowing the Church to have been divinely established by Christ, nevertheless refuses to submit to the Church or withholds obedience from the Roman pontiff, the Vicar of Christ on earth. Not only did the Saviour command that all nations should enter the Church, but He also decreed the Church to be a means of salvation, without which no one can enter the kingdom of eternal glory."
[Letter of the S.C. of the H. Office, Aug. 8, 1949 to the Archbishop of Boston (CH 1256-7)].
SSPXAsia.com: Must we believe that outside of the Catholic Church there is no salvation?

What is to be held of the opinion that people who live outside of the Catholic Faith and Unity can inherit Eternal Life in Heaven?
"This is absolutely contrary to Catholic teaching. We know (...) that those who are invincibly ignorant of our most holy religion, and who, carefully observing the natural law and its precepts placed by God in the hearts of all men, and, disposed to obey God, lead an honest and upright life, can, with the help of divine light and grace, merit eternal life; for God, who has perfect knowledge, examines and judges the minds, the souls, the thoughts and deeds of all men, and does not permit, in his sovereign goodness and mercy, any man not culpable of willful sin to be punished with eternal torment. But this Catholic dogma is equally well known: that one cannot be saved outside the Catholic Church, and that those who knowingly rebel against the teaching and authority of the Church cannot obtain eternal salvation, nor can those who willfully separate themselves from union with the Church and with the Roman Pontiff, the successor of Peter, to whom the Saviour has entrusted the safe-keeping of his vineyard.
"The words of Jesus Christ are in fact extremely clear: 'If he will not hear the Church, let him be to thee as a heathen and a publican' (13). 'He that heareth you heareth me, and he that despiseth you despiseth me, and he that despiseth me, despiseth him that sent me' (14). 'He that believeth not will be condemned' (15). 'He that believeth not is already judged' (16). 'He that is not with me is against me and he that gathereth not with me, scattereth' (17). So the Apostle Paul says that men are subverted and condemned by their own judgment (18), and the Prince of the Apostles calls 'lying teachers them who shall bring in sects of perdition, and deny the Lord who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction' (19)". [Pope Pius IX Letter Quanto conficiamur maerore, August 10, 1863, to the Italian Episcopate (CH 242-3)].
SSPXAsia.com: Must we believe that outside of the Catholic Church there is no salvation?

The history of the doctrine that there is no salvation outside the Catholic Church
Some of the most pertinent Catholic expressions of this doctrine are: the profession of faith of Pope Innocent III (1208), the profession of faith of the Fourth Lateran Council (1215), the bull Unam sanctam of Pope Boniface VIII (1302), and the profession of faith of the Council of Florence (1442). The axiom "No salvation outside the Church" has been frequently repeated over the centuries in different terms by the ordinary magisterium.

The fact of the matter is that it has always been the pipe dream of any denomination that the beliefs in the pews adhere to the official doctrines of each specific denomination. In reality it does not happen. I am not saying that all Catholics believe that there is no salvation outside of the Catholic Church.
But then Historically...official doctrine....I am saying that. And I am also saying that in more recent times the Catholic Church has shown signs of softening of this doctrine.

Then again, like I said, I know you....and if the Pope came to your house and told you personally and handed you a document with his official seal....you would call him a liar. So I am done.
The ONLY thing you got right is the title “Outside the Church there is no salvation” (Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus). However - you conveniently left OUT the text of the teaching - which is just another one of your dishonest ploys.
Here it is again for your edification:
"Outside the Church there is no salvation"
846
How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers?335 Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:
Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.336

847
This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:
Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.337

848 "Although in ways known to himself God can lead those who, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Gospel, to that faith without which it is impossible to please him, the Church still has the obligation and also the sacred right to evangelize all men."338


And you STILL haven provided proof for your moronic claims about the Vatican being overrun with prostitutes
Nice
job . . .
 

BreadOfLife

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I am right at home living daily full of righteousness, peace and joy as written in Scripture, quite contrary to the ungodly position of the world's religions.
I am right at home living in union, echad(one), with all Jesus' disciples,
as Jesus Says in John 17
and reveals throughout all Scripture.
I am right at home living outside the darkness of those deceived by the devil, yes.
Living daily with all those who walk in the LIGHT, JESUS, following Jesus, with His sheep.
Spoken like a true Pharisee . . .
 

Joseph77

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The grand errors today are further proof on-going of the spiritual fornication / prostitutes/ opposed to Jesus today.
 

Joseph77

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oops...
I quoted SCRIPTURE !

What Scripture Says is TRUTH, which you apparently don't know much if anything about.

(you even quoted me quoting Scripture, and apparently you cannot see that )

Spoken like a true Pharisee . . .
 

BreadOfLife

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Yes, sadly your "case" always "begins" and "ends" with "Carnal understanding".
And anyone who does not agree with your crippled Catholic learning and Regurtation, you call a liar.
Awe.

Glory to God,
Taken
LOL -
That in itself is 2 Lies.
Nothing new...with you;
You are BIG on Accusing others,
And small on PROVING your Accusations.

Better get your beads..

Matt 6
[7] But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.
Glory to God,
Taken
Like I said - I only accuse people of lying when they LIE.
If you can find an instance where I accused somebody of lying when they simply "disagreed" - then please present it.

Otherwise - you've just been exposed . . . again.
 

BreadOfLife

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oops...
I quoted SCRIPTURE !

What Scripture Says is TRUTH, which you apparently don't know much if anything about.

(you even quoted me quoting Scripture, and apparently you cannot see that )
It wasn't the Scripture that I had an issue with - it was your self-righteousness:
"I am right at home living daily full of righteousness"


Spoken like a TRUE Pharisee.
Good luck
with that . . .
 

Joseph77

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The spiritual man appraiseth all things, and is appraised by no one...

The lies from the liar are lies, every day since the Garden Time. The Father of lies is not stopped today yet.
 
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