The doctrine of the trinity, it's origins

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DNB

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Hi 101G, the Bible should be taken away from you, for you qualify to be the worst, and most absurd exegete on the planet.
Below is just a fraction, of the utterly ridiculous interpretive skills that you displayed.

John 15:26 "But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me”.

...here we have Jesus testifying that he will send the “Comforter”… correct, well lets see if this is true. John 14:26 "But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you”. HOLD IT, stop the press, the “Father” will send the Comforter? but did not the Lord Jesus said in the scripture given, John 15:26 above that he. the Lord Jesus will sent the Comforter? READ both of those verses again.

now there is only one conclusion, either Jesus is the Father which is a title of the “COMFORTER”, or the Lord Jesus lied. knowing that the Lord Jesus cannot lie, then he, Jesus is the Father who is the Holy Spirit who comes. lets see if this is true
There is more than one conclusion 101G. It's interchangeable to say that either the Father, or the son, will send the Spirit, as the son will ask on behalf of the Father. Even a child would've understood this. Your incompetence is unprecedented, I am not joking!

John 14:13-16
14:13. "Whatever you ask in My name, that will I do, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14. "If you ask Me anything in My name, I will do it. 15. "If you love Me, you will keep My commandments. 16. "I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever;


Evidence #1. John 14:16 "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever”. Hold it, Jesus said that the Father, which is him, (diversified), will give you “ANOTHER” Comforter. lets see whom this “ANOTHER” Comforter is, lets keep on reading.
John 14:17 "Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you”. (Now keep your hats on, for the very next verse tells us who the Comforter is).

John 14:18 "I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you”. BINGO,the Lord Jesus is the “ANOTHER” Comforter to come. man oh man, someone would have to pay you overtime to miss this. did one hear what the Lord JESUS said, “I WILL NOT LEAVE YOU COMFORTLESS…. I WILL COME TO YOU”. how plain can one get.
Jesus used the word 'coming' figuratively. Which means that he will act himself (request to the Father) by sending something to the faithful. If you received something by praying in Jesus' name, which actually came from the Father, it's tantamount to saying that Jesus came, or acted on behalf of the believer's request.
You know, I even feel stupid having to explain this. You are a nut-case 101G!
 
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101G

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There is more than one conclusion 101G. It's interchangeable to say that either the Father, or the son, will send the Spirit, as the son will ask on behalf of the Father. Even a child would've understood this. Your incompetence is unprecedented, I am not joking!
ERROR, did you not hear the Lord Jesus say "I will send". now the bible say don't add or take away from his word, so where is it written that the son "ASKED" the Father to send the comforter, see that's your suggestion. I don't go on suggestion. when the Lord Jesus said "I will send", and he also said, "The Father will send", this is "NOT" interchangeable the only conclusion is the Lord Jesus is the Father, which I have prove and will contuine to prove. so your statement is false and misleading with your OWN assumption. as I said before never make assumptions.
John 14:13-16
14:13. "Whatever you ask in My name, that will I do, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14. "If you ask Me anything in My name, I will do it. 15. "If you love Me, you will keep My commandments. 16. "I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever;
again a misunderstanding on your part, but understand this.
John 16:23 "And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, (STOP, what is the Father Name?... JESUS), he will give it you.
John 16:24 "Hitherto have ye asked nothing in my name: ask, and ye shall receive, that your joy may be full.
John 16:25 "These things have I spoken unto you in proverbs: but the time cometh, when I shall no more speak unto you in proverbs, but I shall shew you plainly of the Father. HOLD IT, shew the Father? lets see, John 14:6 "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
John 14:7 "If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: (BINGO), and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
John 14:8 "Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
John 14:9 "Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; (BINGO) and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
John 14:10 "Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works". (my God, how many times must he say I'm the Father in flesh). now the Last of your verse,

John 16:26 "At that day ye shall ask in my name: and I say not unto you, that I will pray the Father for you:" not pray "TO" but pray.
man oh man how blind can one be.... Oh well...
***************************************

Now Post #35, a glimer of hope... :oops: DNB listen to this, you freind is on the right trail but still lost. but at least listen.

Psalms 110:1) "The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool."
STOP here for minuite, if the titles are interchangeable,one would not who is who)...oh well
Mark 12:35-37) "¶ And Jesus answered and said, while he taught in the temple, How say the scribes that Christ is the Son of David? {36} For David himself said by the Holy Ghost, The LORD said to my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool. {37} David therefore himself calleth him Lord; and whence is he then his son?
Mark 14:62) "And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven."
Mark 16:19) "¶ So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.

NOW LISTEN TO THIS CONCLUSION DNB,
Now does this all prove the trinity doctrine? I can say that this conclusively proves that there are at least two distinct persons in heaven right now as the Godhead. You can call it three in one, or one in three, it makes no difference to me.
***********************************************************************
Well getting close still don't buy one a cigar. this last part of the statement I will zero in on. "I can say that this conclusively proves that there are at least two distinct persons". ERROR, not two "distinct" person, but one person "SHARED" in another FORM. that's the product of NONE Holy Spirit education. two distinct persons... lol. oh well lets explain so that when you come before the Judgment seat of christ you cannot claim ignorance, for 101G is now telling. your two distinct person is one person "SHARED". and right hand simply means POWER. there is no two persons setting next to each other. lets prove this lie quickley. Revelation 3:21 "To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne". did one see it..."IN", not sit "ON", but IN my and his throne. well that just eliminated any sitting next to. but understand, God is a Spirit, and don't need a actual phyical chair/throne to sit on... my, my, my. carnalminded thinking.

but lets see it plainly in scriptures, Revelation 22:16 "I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star".
the Lord Jesus said that he is the "root" and the "offspring", is the Root and the offspring one or two distinct person. no, it's the same ONE PERSON, just as the First and the Last. lets make it clear. scripture,
#1. Isaiah 44:6 "Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God". see that conjunction "and" there in the scripture, seems like it's indicating two persons, as in Ephesians 1:2 "Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ". see the "And" there, many say see this is the Father and the son. lets contuine,

#2. Isaiah 41:4 "Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he".
here we have "WITH" in between the first and the last. just as "with" in John 1:1 which many say prove the separation of father and Son/Word.
John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God". see the "with" there, now the last scripture,

#3. Isaiah 48:12 "Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last. HOLD IT, stop the press, the FIRST is "ALSO" the LAST? but was not the First "WITH" the last as the Word was "WITH" the Father as in John 1:1? .... (smile).

see what you THINK is simple to understand CARNALLY, is not so Spiritually. now let put these scriptures out for all to see.
Isaiah 44:6 "Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.
Isaiah 41:4 "Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he.
Isaiah 48:12 "Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last.

see your ERROR in thinking that it's two separate and Distinct Person when it's only one. did you not notice in all the Isaiah verses he is saying "I am HE", a single person

now returning to Revelation 22:16 "I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star". OFFSPRING is the key to the Godhead, G1085 γένος genos (ǰe'-nos) n.
kin.
{abstract or concrete, literal or figurative, individual or collective}
[from G1096]
KJV: born, country(-man), diversity, generation, kind(-red), nation, offspring, stock

Diversity, Diversity, diversity, of ONE person.... :D one day you will learn.
see DNB, I teach by scripture, no assumptions.

PICJAG.
 
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Joseph77

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ERROR, did you not hear the Lord Jesus say "I will send".
'selah', think on these things, dwell on what is written.

How many times in Scripture is it shown that someone becomes changed , they become another (kind of/ different from the first) man ? Take some time. This is directly important if there is to be any seeking the truth and realizing what is written here.
 

101G

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'selah', think on these things, dwell on what is written.

How many times in Scripture is it shown that someone becomes changed , they become another (kind of/ different from the first) man ? Take some time. This is directly important if there is to be any seeking the truth and realizing what is written here.
First thank for the the reply, and I agree, but consider this when it comes to God and he change not in Nature, nor character. consider this, G243 Allos, "Allos expresses a numerical difference and denotes another of the same sort". now lets zero in on "Sort" here, according to Dictionary.com Sort: 1. a particular kind, species, variety, class, or group, distinguished by a common character or nature. 2. character, quality, or nature.
Now I ask, has God Nature, Quality or character changed? no, of course not. but in the definition of G243 allos, it stated, "a numerical difference". we do know what that meas right... so two of ONE, meaning the EQUAL share of one-self in "ANOTHER" form is exactly what G243 Allos is saying. and the scripture Philippians 2:6 bear this out plainly. the one Person is the Holy Spirit/Father who "Shared/G243 allos himself in Flesh, as the Offspring, with the title "son". see it now.

if you have any question please feel free to ask.

PICJAG.
 

101G

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Scripture #12 that was posted.

John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life”.

the son is God himself “Shared” in flesh. how many times we must say this, scripture, Isaiah 53:1 "Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?
who is the ARM of God? Isaiah 63:5 "And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine own arm brought salvation unto me; and my fury, it upheld me”. God’s OWN ARM is he himself “diversified” in flesh, better known as the “Offspring”. so who was given? answer God himself in flesh, supportive scripture, Matthew 1:23 "Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

and this “son” is Given, Isaiah 53:2 "For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.
Isaiah 53:3 "He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
Isaiah 53:4 "Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.

so yes, the son is God himself shared in flesh.

Now lets get educated on the term”Son”. don’t think carnally of a NATURAL human son. no, son here a NOT, is NOT, natural son from any human parents. G5207, huios, is used here metaphorically of prominent moral characteristics. son here has nothing to with a person GENDER, or reference to one’s sex orientation. listen, Hebrews 1:3 "Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high”.

the “express Image”, of, of, of, his PERSON. so what is the “IMAGE” of God's .... PERSON? answer his character in “ANOTHER” Form of himself in flesh.. BINGO. how simple. Jesus the Christ the Son is the “ANOTHER” of God himself “shared” in flesh.
so John 3:16 is not a trinity scripture,

Scripture #13 that was posted.
John 8:41 "Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.
easy See #7

Scripture #14 that was posted.
1 Thessalonians 3:13 "To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.
easy See #7

Scripture #15 that was posted.
Isaiah 7:14 "Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
easy, God “shared” in Flesh as the “diversity”.

Scripture #16 that was posted.
Isaiah 9:6 "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace".

Well, well, well, lets separate the Flesh from the Spirit. God comes in flesh, I can easy say see #16 above, but I would like to take a little time here.

This is the One God, JESUS, the Spirit/the Father coming in FLESH that was born of the virgin Mary. he came by blood and water… (smile), a body. and he shared/G243 allos himself in that flesh, (Phil 2:6) and while in that flesh, as the equal share of himself, he, God, the Father, G2758 κενόω kenoo (ke-no-ō') himself as the Equal share and is found in that flesh as the Son, (Phil 2:7 & 8), the only begotten… BINGO as to how God came in flesh. Diversity proven again. the only thing to remember is the son is the EQUAL Share. Not only did I state my position, and backed it up with scripture.

PICJAG
 

Joseph77

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Close but no cigar..... God the Father and God the Son are distinct, while being echad, as written, as seen eternally, as Jesus Reveals.
 
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101G

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Close but no cigar..... God the Father and God the Son are distinct, while being echad, as written, as seen eternally, as Jesus Reveals.
first thanks for the reply, and second, I'm about to respond to this very question you stated here in the next scripture that was posted, John 1:1 which is one of the most "diversified onessness" scripture in the bible. so hold on for a few, ok.

PICJAG
 

DNB

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ERROR, did you not hear the Lord Jesus say "I will send". now the bible say don't add or take away from his word, so where is it written that the son "ASKED" the Father to send the comforter, see that's your suggestion. I don't go on suggestion. when the Lord Jesus said "I will send", and he also said, "The Father will send", this is "NOT" interchangeable the only conclusion is the Lord Jesus is the Father, which I have prove and will contuine to prove. so your statement is false and misleading with your OWN assumption. as I said before never make assumptions.

again a misunderstanding on your part, but understand this.
John 16:23 "And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, (STOP, what is the Father Name?... JESUS), he will give it you.
John 16:24 "Hitherto have ye asked nothing in my name: ask, and ye shall receive, that your joy may be full.
John 16:25 "These things have I spoken unto you in proverbs: but the time cometh, when I shall no more speak unto you in proverbs, but I shall shew you plainly of the Father. HOLD IT, shew the Father? lets see, John 14:6 "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
John 14:7 "If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: (BINGO), and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
John 14:8 "Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
John 14:9 "Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; (BINGO) and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
John 14:10 "Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works". (my God, how many times must he say I'm the Father in flesh). now the Last of your verse,

John 16:26 "At that day ye shall ask in my name: and I say not unto you, that I will pray the Father for you:" not pray "TO" but pray.
man oh man how blind can one be.... Oh well...
***************************************

Now Post #35, a glimer of hope... :oops: DNB listen to this, you freind is on the right trail but still lost. but at least listen.

Psalms 110:1) "The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool."
STOP here for minuite, if the titles are interchangeable,one would not who is who)...oh well
Mark 12:35-37) "¶ And Jesus answered and said, while he taught in the temple, How say the scribes that Christ is the Son of David? {36} For David himself said by the Holy Ghost, The LORD said to my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool. {37} David therefore himself calleth him Lord; and whence is he then his son?
Mark 14:62) "And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven."
Mark 16:19) "¶ So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.

NOW LISTEN TO THIS CONCLUSION DNB,
Now does this all prove the trinity doctrine? I can say that this conclusively proves that there are at least two distinct persons in heaven right now as the Godhead. You can call it three in one, or one in three, it makes no difference to me.
***********************************************************************
Well getting close still don't buy one a cigar. this last part of the statement I will zero in on. "I can say that this conclusively proves that there are at least two distinct persons". ERROR, not two "distinct" person, but one person "SHARED" in another FORM. that's the product of NONE Holy Spirit education. two distinct persons... lol. oh well lets explain so that when you come before the Judgment seat of christ you cannot claim ignorance, for 101G is now telling. your two distinct person is one person "SHARED". and right hand simply means POWER. there is no two persons setting next to each other. lets prove this lie quickley. Revelation 3:21 "To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne". did one see it..."IN", not sit "ON", but IN my and his throne. well that just eliminated any sitting next to. but understand, God is a Spirit, and don't need a actual phyical chair/throne to sit on... my, my, my. carnalminded thinking.

but lets see it plainly in scriptures, Revelation 22:16 "I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star".
the Lord Jesus said that he is the "root" and the "offspring", is the Root and the offspring one or two distinct person. no, it's the same ONE PERSON, just as the First and the Last. lets make it clear. scripture,
#1. Isaiah 44:6 "Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God". see that conjunction "and" there in the scripture, seems like it's indicating two persons, as in Ephesians 1:2 "Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ". see the "And" there, many say see this is the Father and the son. lets contuine,

#2. Isaiah 41:4 "Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he".
here we have "WITH" in between the first and the last. just as "with" in John 1:1 which many say prove the separation of father and Son/Word.
John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God". see the "with" there, now the last scripture,

#3. Isaiah 48:12 "Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last. HOLD IT, stop the press, the FIRST is "ALSO" the LAST? but was not the First "WITH" the last as the Word was "WITH" the Father as in John 1:1? .... (smile).

see what you THINK is simple to understand CARNALLY, is not so Spiritually. now let put these scriptures out for all to see.
Isaiah 44:6 "Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.
Isaiah 41:4 "Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he.
Isaiah 48:12 "Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last.

see your ERROR in thinking that it's two separate and Distinct Person when it's only one. did you not notice in all the Isaiah verses he is saying "I am HE", a single person

now returning to Revelation 22:16 "I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star". OFFSPRING is the key to the Godhead, G1085 γένος genos (ǰe'-nos) n.
kin.
{abstract or concrete, literal or figurative, individual or collective}
[from G1096]
KJV: born, country(-man), diversity, generation, kind(-red), nation, offspring, stock

Diversity, Diversity, diversity, of ONE person.... :D one day you will learn.
see DNB, I teach by scripture, no assumptions.

PICJAG.
You are psychotic, an absolute nutcase. I am saying this for your benefit.
You are a madman, again, will someone please take away the Bible from this lunatic!
 

101G

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Scripture #17 that was posted.
John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God”.

this is just too easy, but… the keyword here is in the latter part of the scripture, “and the Word was God”. how plain can one get. but since the term, “God”, is a generic term for the interchangeable persons in the trinity doctrine …. (smile), then we must answer this once again. but we will go another route. the TERM “GOD”. since John 1:1 deals with the beginning, lets go there. Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth”. the Term “God”, is the Hebrew word, H430 אֱלֹהִים '

(el-o-heem') n-m.
אֱלֹהֵי 'elohiy (el-o-hee') [alternate plural]
1. (literally) supreme ones.
2. (hence, in the ordinary sense) gods.
3. (specifically, in the plural, especially with the article) the Supreme God (i.e. the all supreme).
4. (sometimes) supreme, used as a superlative.
5. (occasionally, by way of deference) supreme magistrates, the highest magistrates of the land.
6. (also) the supreme angels (entities of unspecified type).
[plural of H433]
KJV: angels, X exceeding, God (gods)(-dess, -ly), X (very) great, judges, X mighty.
Root(s): H433 Hebrew Interlinear Bible (OT)

notice definition #3. in the plural, especially with the article) the Supreme God (i.e. the all supreme). so “GOD” is a plurality but how? as an Echad? no, as a trinity? NO, since the term, “God”, is a plurality that eliminates the Oneness as the UPC teaches, and the Unitarian as they teach. and also the JW, and many others as they teach. well why was “diversified oneness” not included? because “diversified oneness” confirm the plurality of God as ONE PERSON. so our friend DCM was correct about the plurality of two but with the wrong application of the plurality, which we will plainly show.

now the term “GOD”, I will be using the Hebrew Interlinear Bible (OT) at Genesis 1:1 https://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/OTpdf/gen1.pdf
you can zoom in to see the scripture better. while reading verse 1, one will notice next to Elohim/אֱהִ ים these two letters… (smile), אֵ ת they are the identifies of Elohim as a plurality. they are the Aleph/אֵ and the Tav/ת which is the First and the Last letters in the Hebrew alphabet. God here is describe in the plurality as the “First” and the “Last”. or in the English the “Beginning” and the “End”. or in the Greek as the”Alpha ” and the “Omega”. do these titles sound familiar? they should. for they are the titles of God/JESUS. Listen, Revelation 1:8 "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty”. in the next verse we have all the titles, Revelation 22:13 "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last”. (BINGO). JESUS is the elohiym in plurality, right from the beginning at Genesis 1:1. now back to John 1:1

John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God”. here we see God’s plurality plainly. the beginning here in John 1:1 is not at Genesis but his coming in Flesh as the Son of God, which is the figure of God in flesh (see Roman 5:14B. to prove that this is God’s coming in flesh as the plurality of himself “shared”, lets go to 1 John 1:1 "That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;
1 John 1:2 "(For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;)
1 John 1:3 "That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ”.

so John was not at Genesis 1:1 to see, hear, nor to handle the word of life. but when the life was manifested in flesh, then John saw the life that was at Genesis 1:1. lets give a second scripture to witness this. Mark 1:1 "The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God”, the who? yes, the “Beginning” of God in FLESH, the Son of God. BINGO, there is the plurality of Elohim in flesh, that was to come. (BINGO).

now we began to see that the Spirit/JESUS/the Holy Spirit, “shared” G243 allos, himself in flesh as the “son of God”. so now in the NT we have the Spirit/JESUS/the Holy Spirit/Father, without flesh and bone and Blood, and the Spirit/Jesus/the Holy Spirit/Son, “SHARED” Equally in Flesh, (Phil 2:6), but G2758 κενόω kenoo (ke-no-ō') while in that Flesh with blood, (Phil 2:7 & 8). THIS IS THE PLURALITY OF GOD IN FLESH. (BINGO).

so, KNOWING this, John 1:1 2, & 3 are plain and clear. before God came in flesh he created all things…(Smile).he was “alone”, and “by himself”, (Isaiah 44:24). and AT Genesis 1:26 before he “shared” himself in flesh he JESUS, the Spirit, the Father, without blood and flesh made man in the IMAGE of which he was to come in. (BINGO).

so John 1:1 is not a trinity scripture neither.


John 1:1 is one of the most “diversified oneness” scriptures in the bible.


PICJAG
 
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101G

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You are psychotic, an absolute nutcase. I am saying this for your benefit.
You are a madman, again, will someone please take away the Bible from this lunatic!
so we can take this as you have no scripture to refuite what we have said. .... LOL.... :rolleyes:

I just love it when people exercise their use of colorful metaphor to show their own ignorance of the word of God. but don't worry DNB I have been called worest ..... :p

PICJAG.
 

DNB

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so we can take this as you have no scripture to refuite what we have said. .... LOL.... :rolleyes:

I just love it when people exercise their use of colorful metaphor to show their own ignorance of the word of God. but don't worry DNB I have been called worest ..... :p

PICJAG.
Interesting how you referred to yourself as 'we'. Yes, that about sums it up, in more ways than one.
 

101G

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Interesting how you referred to yourself as 'we'. Yes, that about sums it up, in more ways than one.
Remember the OP, it not about us but the topic on the trinity, I which you would concentrate on the subject and be a contributing poster in stead of concentrating on yourself and 101G.... :cool:

PICJAG.
 

DNB

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Remember the OP, it not about us but the topic on the trinity, I which you would concentrate on the subject and be a contributing poster in stead of concentrating on yourself and 101G.... :cool:

PICJAG.
You do have a point! ...but referring to yourself in the 3rd person is just weird, just saying.
 

101G

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Scripture #18 that was posted.
John 8:58 "Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am”.

JESUS, the Son of Man was before Abraham, (smile), but NOT the Son of God. I know that blew some minds. so lets make it plain, the plurality of God in Post #69 explain his Statement.. as the Spirit God, he is before Abraham, and before Adam, because he made Adam. so this is not a trinity scripture, Oh too easy, when one know and understand the basic of “Diversity”.

Scripture #19 that was posted.
John 10:30 "I and my Father are one”.
oh how true see Post #69.
that’s a “Diversified Oneness”

Scripture #20 that was posted.
John 15:9 "As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.”
See Post #65 and #69. so that’s not a trinity scripture.

Scripture #21 that was posted.
John 20:28 "And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God”.

we Know you don’t want to use this as a trinity scripture. See again Post #7, #65, and #69……
that’s definitely not a trinity scripture.

Scripture #22 that was posted.
Acts 5:3 "But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?

Acts 5:4 "Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.

this just get better and better. we’ll use one verse to destroy this misunderstanding. but what is trying to be said is that a. the Holy Ghost is one separate and distinct person, and b. God, the generic form for the Father, correct? is a separate and distinct person. well here’s the one scripture that takes all of that away as separate and distinct persons. right there in the same chapter, listen, Acts 5:9 "Then Peter said unto her, How is it that ye have agreed together to tempt the Spirit of the Lord? behold, the feet of them which have buried thy husband are at the door, and shall carry thee out”. see that, the Spirit of, of, of, … The Lord, JESUS. when her husband lie to the Holy Ghost, and God your generic form for the Father, he and she was lying to JESUS…… lol. man oh man this is too easy.

so Acts 5:3 & 4 are not trinity scriptures. but Acts 5:3 & 4 and 9 are “diversified Oneness” scriptures…


PICJAG
 

101G

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Scripture #23 that was posted.
2 Corinthians 4:4 "In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them”.

I believe we said that. Jesus the Christ is God in Flesh. and by being in flesh he’s the ANOTHER of himself shared in flesh. see Post#3.
another none trinity scripture.

Scripture #24 that was posted.
Philippians 2:6 "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God”

I know you didn’t, are you sure you want to use this scripture. oh well, the “Form” of God is God’s nature,
for the Greek word for “form”here is G3444 μορφή morphe (mor-fee') n.
1. form.
2. (intrinsically) fundamental nature.
[perhaps from the base of G3313 (through the idea of adjustment of parts)]
KJV: form
Root(s): G3313

Note definition #2, that’s a dead give away. in the plurality of the Spirit/God/the Father. the Lord Jesus is the same "equal" Nature, but the point of contention is this, is he a separate and distinct Person? answer, NO. and here’s why. in the definition above, G3444 μορφή morphe, it’s root word reveals our Lord’s Identity in the plurality of God/the Spirit. it’s the root word G3313 μέρος meros (me'-ros) n. which means,
1. a portion (i.e. an amount allotted, a part of something).
Another word for “portion” is “SHARE"… BINGO. just as we been saying from the beginning. the Lord Jesus is the EQUAL “share” of God himself in flesh. oh how easy it is if one just look up words definitions and root them out. the truth will be revealed. the Lord Jesus himself said, search the scriptures if you think you have eternal life. we say to you “search” the scriptures, and study to show yourself approved unto God.

so Philippians 2:6 is not a trinity scripture, but a good “diversified oneness” scripture.

Scripture #25 that was posted.
Colossians 2:9 "For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily”.

the equal share in that flesh. oh how simple. so no this is not a trinity scripture.
enough for today, Lord’s willing we will finish up tomorrow.


PICJAG
 

Heart2Soul

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IMHO we are so far from knowing all there is to know about God that unless we seek His Truth through His Word and By His Holy Spirit all we are doing is creating confusion and division amongst the brethren. God desires that we come together in one mind and one accord in the unity of faith in Jesus Christ.
Obviously you have not convinced some here of your belief that the Trinity does not exist. Many of your scriptures you have shared seemed to support the Trinity rather than nullify it.
Here are some questions:
1. Jesus told the disciples that the Spirit of Truth would come and whatever He hears the Father speak is what He will say.....if they are the same God why does He have to hear himself speak?
2. The disciples asked Jesus when His Return would be...Jesus said no man knoweth the hour or the day except for the Father....even He didn't know....if they are the same God He would know wouldn't He?
3. While Jesus hung on the cross He cried out and asked God why did He forsake Him....how can you forsake yourself?
4. Jesus is our intercessor and He is before the Father interceding on our behalf...how do you pray to yourself and intercede for us?
It makes the whole scenario seem ridiculous and has the purpose vague.
5 When Jesus was baptized a dove descended upon Him and a voice from heaven said This is my Son in whom I am well pleased.....if they are the same it sounds like God is patting himself on the back.
6. In the OT angels are sometimes referred to as Sons of God....does this mean that God is also an angel?

I mean seriously, the Bible says to avoid questions and genealogies that only produce more questions and never having an answer.
 

101G

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IMHO we are so far from knowing all there is to know about God that unless we seek His Truth through His Word and By His Holy Spirit all we are doing is creating confusion and division amongst the brethren. God desires that we come together in one mind and one accord in the unity of faith in Jesus Christ.
Obviously you have not convinced some here of your belief that the Trinity does not exist. Many of your scriptures you have shared seemed to support the Trinity rather than nullify it.
Here are some questions:
1. Jesus told the disciples that the Spirit of Truth would come and whatever He hears the Father speak is what He will say.....if they are the same God why does He have to hear himself speak?
2. The disciples asked Jesus when His Return would be...Jesus said no man knoweth the hour or the day except for the Father....even He didn't know....if they are the same God He would know wouldn't He?
3. While Jesus hung on the cross He cried out and asked God why did He forsake Him....how can you forsake yourself?
4. Jesus is our intercessor and He is before the Father interceding on our behalf...how do you pray to yourself and intercede for us?
It makes the whole scenario seem ridiculous and has the purpose vague.
5 When Jesus was baptized a dove descended upon Him and a voice from heaven said This is my Son in whom I am well pleased.....if they are the same it sounds like God is patting himself on the back.
6. In the OT angels are sometimes referred to as Sons of God....does this mean that God is also an angel?

I mean seriously, the Bible says to avoid questions and genealogies that only produce more questions and never having an answer.
GINOLJC, to all.
First thanks for the reply. second, I hear your concerns. but if there is any confusion it comes from years of false teaching on the Godhead with a man man made doctrine that is not of the bible. see Heart2Soul I understand your concerns, but we need to wake up and ask, “is what I'm believing in, is it true?”, just because 101G says this or someone with a phd says that, but what do God say about it, he’s the final authority.

but if I don't change anyone's mind, that's ok, for my JOB is just to tell you the truth, because when one comes before the Judgment seat of Christ, the true and only living God, one cannot use the excuse well I didn't hear the truth when the lord jesus ask why did one believe a certian way.

understand me, Heart2Soul, my objective is just to present the truth, if one accept it or not, I go to sleep at night with a good night sleep. for God revealed unto Revelation 22:11, and when I understood that, my worries for my fellow brother is not critical anymor, so as said, my JOB is just to relay to truth, that's all.

I ask you only this, examine what I have posted and go to God in Prayer and ask him to reveal to you what is posted is true or not, and be sincere, (which I know you will be), and let him guide you, I say again, let him GUIDE you, ok.
don’t need to tell me the result, just accept what God have revealed to you.

and all of your concerens "above" i will by the lord Jesus address them ok, but first i must finish up on the OP ok, be blessed.

PICJAG.
 
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101G

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Scripture #26 that was posted.
1 Timothy 3:16 "And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory”.

the Spirit, God whom you call the Father, was “Shared” in Spirit, and manifested in flesh. Again, God “Shared” himself equally in flesh as the “ANOTHER”/the G243 allos , and in that flesh as the equal “share”/the G243 allos of himself, he “made” himself of none effect/G2758 κενόω kenoo, and took upon himself the fashion of a man. supportive scriptures, Philippians 2:6 "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
Philippians 2:7 "But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
Philippians 2:8 "And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross”.

so again, 1 Timothy 3:16 is not a trinity scripture, but a “diversified Oneness” scripture.

Scripture #26 that was posted. (this scriptures exposes the trinity badly).
Hebrews 1:8 "But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom”.

Again the diversity of the Holy Spirit/God, in flesh. here we have the definite article of the son as the “EQUAL” share of the Spirit in flesh as Philippians 2:6 states above in Scripture #26 that was posted. now if this was a trinity scripture, then the scripture itself defeats the trinity doctrine by saying that the “Son” is the only TRUE God, because of the definite article being used here, “O God”. so if what the trinity doctrine NOW says , it’s not two Gods but two person, well it fails miserable here in Hebrews, because either one have two Gods or it’s the same God shared. because the definite article use for the Son nullifies any trinity.

now this scripture really put the christian FAITH to the test of any trinity believer. if one say it’s the Father and Son as two separate Person, no, the scriptures states “O God”, not “O Father”. which many of you trinity believers say the Term God = the Father, and if so then you have two Gods and that’s polytheism as it’s worst.

so if any trinity believer uses this verse to support your trinity doctrine, then you’re into polytheism.
so Hebrews 1:8 is definitely not a trinity scripture, but a “diversified oneness” scripture.

Scripture #27 that was posted.
Titus 2:13 "Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ”
see post #15

Scripture #28 that was posted.
John 14:16 "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
John 14:17 "Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
John 14:18 "I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

we know you really made a mistake here. “ANOTHER”/G243 allos “Comforter”, just read verse 18. (BINGO).
see post #13

Scripture #29 that was posted.
Luke 12:10 "And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven”.

This is so simply, the son of man is God/JESUS, “shared” in flesh, as a man … (smile), the flesh is forgiven, but all forgiven sin is against the Spirit God/Jesus who was Justified….in the flesh. supportive scripture, Romans 8:1 "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit”. and one more to clearly point it out, Romans 8:9 "But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his”.

the son of Man is God/shared in … flesh. same PERSON, only “Shared” in flesh. so Luke 12:10 is not a trinity scripture, but a “diversified oneness” scripture.

Scripture #30 that was posted.
2 Corinthians 3:17 "Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty”.

are you kidding me? that’s self explanatory, my God, the Lord is that “Spirit”, the same one person, and Spirit here is capitalized, indicating the Father/the Holy Spirit.


PICJAG
 

Heart2Soul

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Here is another question....
The only unforgivable sin is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.....why is He singled out?
 

101G

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Scripture #31 that was posted.
2 Corinthians 13:5 "Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?”

Now, how this is a trinity scripture? I have no Idea, but the “diversity” of God, Jesus christ is in, us by his Spirit, is a diversity of one scripture. supportive scripture, John 14:21 "He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him”.

HOLD IT, manifest, manifest?, did one get that? has he not already manifested himself in flesh? remember Scripture #26 that was posted.
1 Timothy 3:16 "And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory”. and this is the Lord Jesus speaking to them Right… right. but now the Lord Jesus is saying that he is going to “MANIFEST” himself to them, AGAIN in Flesh? no, don't be silly, was he not already in the “FLESH” speaking to them, right there? yes, so how? answer, Judas, not Iscariot, asked the 10 million dollar question, listen, John 14:22 "Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world? listen to what the Lord jesus answer him with,

John 14:23 "Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him”. question who is the “WE” here… Mabye Father and son? (smile)... lol, are you listening, did not the Lord Jesus said that he will send the comforter, and did he not say the Father will send the comforter? well how is both coming when .. (they..), is suppose to be sending the Holy Spirit?(read that again). is it not only the holy Spirit who is suppose to come?….. are you’re eyes that closed that even here one cannot see the truth right before their very own eyes?. the Father and the Son is the HOLY GHOST. didn’t you hear the Lord Jesus in John 14:18 say, "I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you”. I, I, I, will come to you. how can some be that blind to the truth?…. oh well. so 2 Corinthians 13:5 is not a trinity scripture, but a “diversified oneness” scripture.

Scripture #32 that was posted.
John 14:23 "Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him”.

see above, Scripture #31 that was posted. …. (smile). man oh man.

Scripture #33 that was posted.
this is a repeat, we have already done this one. see post #74

well none of the scriptures given are trinity scriptures, but all are answered by “diversified oneness”.

so those scriptures are reproved.


PICJAG
 
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