The doctrine of the trinity, it's origins

Heart2Soul said:

Here are some questions:
1. Jesus told the disciples that the Spirit of Truth would come and whatever He hears the Father speak is what He will say.....if they are the same God why does He have to hear himself speak?
2. The disciples asked Jesus when His Return would be...Jesus said no man knoweth the hour or the day except for the Father....even He didn't know....if they are the same God He would know wouldn't He?
3. While Jesus hung on the cross He cried out and asked God why did He forsake Him....how can you forsake yourself?
4. Jesus is our intercessor and He is before the Father interceding on our behalf...how do you pray to yourself and intercede for us?
It makes the whole scenario seem ridiculous and has the purpose vague.
5 When Jesus was baptized a dove descended upon Him and a voice from heaven said This is my Son in whom I am well pleased.....if they are the same it sounds like God is patting himself on the back.
6. In the OT angels are sometimes referred to as Sons of God....does this mean that God is also an angel?

I mean seriously, the Bible says to avoid questions and genealogies that only produce more questions and never having an answer.

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Heart2Soul said:

Here is another question....
The only unforgivable sin is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.....why is He singled out?

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thanks for the question, and they are good one, if you don't mind, lets address one at a time ok.
#1. 1. Jesus told the disciples that the Spirit of Truth would come and whatever He hears the Father speak is what He will say.....if they are the same God why does He have to hear himself speak?
first off the Spirit of "TRUTH" is Jesus, listen, John 14:6 "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me". as to speaking, he the Father has spoken, John 14:10 "Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works". now, listen closley, John 16:13 "Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come". did he not just speak to them, see for the Holy Spirit is our "TEACHER", 1 Corinthians 2:12 "Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.1 Corinthians 2:13 "Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

Heart2Soul, I'm glad you asked this first question because it's at the crust of the whole matter as to who is teaching the correct doctrine. so let the Holy Spirit speak/teach you.

PICJAG.

PS there are some Spiritual TRUTH that is not yet clearly understood only until the Spirit come we will know, and now we know.

@Heart2Soul, I was going to discuss each point by point. but I'll post the rest and if you need to discuss, ok.

2. The disciples asked Jesus when His Return would be...Jesus said no man knoweth the hour or the day except for the Father....even He didn't know....if they are the same God He would know wouldn't He?
see Post #56.

3. While Jesus hung on the cross He cried out and asked God why did He forsake Him....how can you forsake yourself?”.
if you’re the diversity of oneself, you can. did you understand Post #69

4. Jesus is our intercessor and He is before the Father interceding on our behalf...how do you pray to yourself and intercede for us?
It makes the whole scenario seem ridiculous and has the purpose vague.”
error, the Lord Jesus is the “diversity” of himself in flesh, understand he’s the “ANOTHER” of himself. meaning he’s the “Numerical Difference” of himself, now, let us point something out to you, is not the Holy Ghost co-equal? so why is he interceding on our behalf, scripture, Romans 8:26 "Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered”.

and notice the Lord Jesus do not “pray” to but pray the Father/Spirit. only in intercession. please check your scriptures.

5 When Jesus was baptized a dove descended upon Him and a voice from heaven said This is my Son in whom I am well pleased.....if they are the same it sounds like God is patting himself on the back.
I have address that before, but I ask you or anyone to produce one scripture where it says it was the Father’s voice. it’s an assumption on people part that’s it’s the voice of the Father. the scripture just says, “A voice from heaven”, so if you or anyone can produce one scripture that say its the Father voice from heaven I’ll repent.

but on the other hand, I can produce verses of “A voice from heaven”, and it’s not the father’s voice. so never assume, ok.

6. In the OT angels are sometimes referred to as Sons of God....does this mean that God is also an angel?
NO. and again I say NO. Listen and Understand, Hosea 12:10 "I have also spoken by the prophets, and I have multiplied visions, and used similitudes, by the ministry of the prophets".

Hope this help, if not and have any question, please ask.

PICJAG.

2. The disciples asked Jesus when His Return would be...Jesus said no man knoweth the hour or the day except for the Father....even He didn't know....if they are the same God He would know wouldn't He?

Heart2Soul said:

I did some extensive research on this last night and it only furthered my confusion about this.
I do admit that I believe in the Trinity...the Godhead... because I was taught it all my life growing up.
But I also cannot reason in my mind how Adonai is also Yeshua....Eloahom, El Shaddai, El Elyon....these are exclusively names of God....
Yeshua, Yahweh, Lamb of God, Lion of Judah, Morning Star....and others are exclusively names of Jesus.
When I am in prayer I pray directly to my Abba/Father in Jesus Name. The Holy Spirit also gives me utterances to pray for things I am not aware of...
We sing praises to Jesus....and we also sing praises to God.
This is just too confusing for me....going to take it to Him in prayer. I am always seeking truth and if I am in error then I ask Him to show me.

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thanks for the question. and thanks for your honesty, I use to a trinity believer myself, but we all will come to a point when we all will have a "road to Damascus" Experience. when I thought I was right, and found out I was wrong, it took God himself to show me the Light/Truth. please excuse my language, but I was "hell" bent on believing in the trinity which I was taught also. but as said, I met the Lord on the road to Damascus, and he got me straighten out and turn me around in the right direction.

yes, these title, and name can be confusion, but one must study, search, and burn the midnight oil but in the end one will have to come to God for the ANSWER. this I did and DO.

but to your question concerning #2. only "diversity" can clearly answer that question which I did in post #56.

understand me Heart2Soul I put down no one in their beliefs, ok. it took me many months to understand what the Lord was teaching me, But I took the Long road because I wanted to sure in what I believe, an I didn't want any stones un-turn. I want to know inside and out what the Lord Jesus was teaching me. and when I grasp "diversified oneness" it answered every, I mean every question I had concerning the Godhead from Genesis to Revelation. so I'm complete, and at ease with discussing any topic. but the Lord Jesus charge me with understanding and teaching "diversified oneness" Concerning his Godhead. this area of the bible just open up the whole bible. so when it come to the knowledge of the Godhead, this is where I excel at. note NOT 101G, but christ in 101G... ok.

this "Diversified Oneness" was known by the apostle, the disciples, as well as early church first members. and now I have this knowledge also. I see it everywhere in the bible, it just a matter of God opening one's eyes. it was not until I was tried of lying, (believing in the trinity, other false doctrine), did I surrender unto Christ. so to understand the truth one must be willing to give up all for Christ. and yes, giving up that security blanket call the trinity, which we knew all our lives, yes, it was scary at one time, but boy, oh boy when you find out the many who came before and know the same thing what a Joy to be in communion with the Holy Spirit, and his family of true believers. it's a Joy unspeakable.

But examine my posting, I'm thinking about posting a "Question and Answer about Diversified Oneness". so when question like this come up over and over it can be address on the spot.

so again thanks for the question, and if anything else or any other question arise please ask. this is how one will ever learn what "diversified oneness" is all about. as the scriptures said, "TEST" the spirit by the Spirit. amen

PICJAG

Heart2Soul said:

Yes I have much respect for you in that you don't attack others beliefs you simply share yours.
I wrote a thread a while back about The Truth Will Set You Free.....but what truth or rather what level of truth have you come to understand....example newborn believers have just came to the knowledge of salvation through Christ. This truth has set them free from the curse of sin and death....then more mature believers come to the knowledge of the power of His Word, and their words....sets them free from speaking death and unbelief....etc....so maybe you have achieved a higher level of truth that I haven't.
As I said I must seek Him about it. Too hard for my carnal mind to even consider....lol.

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again, thanks for your honesty, but never cut yourself short. there are some bible things that you know that I have no clue. see that's why the Lord Jesus had 12 disciples, and he gave each some information, but when all come together then is all the knowledge gained. he gave Peter some and what he gave Paul he didn’t give James. that’s why they are called “A pos tles”, each has A-piece, or part in the whole gospel.

as I always said, “I don’t know everything about God”, I have a piece, you have a piece, but when we come together we know more together than apart. so no, I’m not going to set here and say, “I know it all”, no I don’t only that what God give me, that will I speak. while on this forum I have learned a lot from other posters. and I thank God for that. but as said one must come to God and see if what was posted is correct. for God work through his body, the Church. hence the five fold ministry. and yes, the devil is in the church also trying to deceive, that’s why one must be on guard in what one hear, for faith come by hearing, so beware of hearing a lie.

for me, I will hear anyone out, and if I don’t know what you’re saying, that’s why I like it when people give scripture to back up what they say, then I can go and see if it true.

so Never put yourself down, it took me years, most by “trial and error”… (smile), but God had mercy on me and taught me. so do I know it all, again… NO, NO, NO. as said only that I do know, that I’ll share.

so let no one deter you in you quest for the truth, as the bible states, 1 Thessalonians 5:21 "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good”.

PICJAG.

GINOLJC, to all.

First, thanks for the trinity scriptures that was given, and the one’s who gave them. as seen, none supported the concept of three person. but in one’s mind, this concept has been taught. but the bible states, Romans 12:2 "And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God”. this is our aim, for the god of this world has deceived the masses.

Diversified Oneness corrects the mind in this inappropriate teaching of the trinity. instead of exposing the trinity doctrine, (as we has done), we will compare the two in answering the bible, and its understanding of the scriptures.

but first the basic concepts of diversified oneness.

A. there is only one God, who is one and only person in the Godhead. supportive scripture, Deuteronomy 6:4 "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD”. we believe this concept without a doubt. the shema is the foundation of diversified oneness.

B. this one person in the Godhead, is the Holy Spirit. I know this is foreign to your natural mind from life long teaching of the trinity, but he’s the ONE who is Father, and Son, who is JESUS/YESHUA which is the plurality of God.

C. for there are only two “entity” in the Godhead, which is the Source of one person. note how we use the term “entity” instead of “Person”, an “entity” according to dictionary. com. is 1, something that has a real existence; thing: 2. being or existence, especially when considered as distinct, independent, or self-contained. 3. essential nature. we suggest one read these definition very carefully. this is one of the keys to understanding the Godhead.

Knowing this so far, the person in the Godhead is JESUS, the HOLY SPIRIT who is both LORD/Father, all caps, and Lord/Son, as the “ANOTHER” of himself the “entity” in flesh and bones, better known as the “Offspring”, or the diversity of his own-self. that’s it and and no one else. with this basic understanding we will compare this doctrine with the trinity doctrine and answer all and any HARD BIBLE QUESTION.

Just to give a complete understanding we will start in Genesis and go Revelation and reveal the Doctrine of “Diversified Oneness”.

One other thing, get your dictionaries out, for the understanding of some words will be necessary to understand. get both natural and bible dictionaries out. for understanding is key.


PICJAG.

reformed1689 said:

It is not inferred. It is taught. We see clearly the Father as God, the Son as God, and the Spirit as God. That's not an inference.

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well thatks for the reply that the Father as God, the son as God, and the Spirit as God. lets see if this concept is TRUE.
LETS COMPARE DOCTRINE AND SEE. Lets see who is the FATHER.
The 1st. comparison is right in the beginning. Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth”. the very first error of the trinity doctrine is right here in Genesis 1:1. what do we mean? many believe that the Father and the son, “both”, was at, and active in creation, with the Spirit, by the Son creating everything through the Father. this is a deadly mistake on behalf of the trinity doctrine. they say the son was before the foundation of the world. and they use scriptures to prove their point by citing scriptures like, Hebrews 1:10 "And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands”. or this one, John 17:5 "And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was”. these scriptures seem to suggest that the Lord Jesus, (as son), was before the world was, which is correct, but with incorrect understanding. let’s look at this with one more scripture which states the same thing but give us the correct understanding, listen. 1 Peter 1:19 "But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
1 Peter 1:20 "Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you”.
did one see the very last part of the scripture, “but was manifest in these last times for you”. what are all theses verse saying? that the Son who is God is to be MANIFESTED in flesh to come, (meaning the last times). not that the Son existed, no, but that he was not to come into existence in this world until the appointed time.

which means that the Son is the “entity” to come, diversified in flesh. so at Genesis 1:1 he God, JESUS was not in a “diversified” state of himself, because flesh has not yet been made, which is his IMAGE to come in. so in the OT JESUS was only “ONE” Spirit. and this ONE Spirit made “all things”. this is why John 1:3 identifies the Word as the Creator who made all thing, and Isaiah 44:24 who said that he was “ALONE”, and “BY HIMSELF”, for he had not yet “diversified” himself in flesh yet, nor yet come into the world. this is why no trinity believer can reconcile John 1:3 and Isaiah 44:24. but Diversified Oneness can, and plainly reconcile the two.

the 2nd. comparison is easy to understand when one understand the first comparison. knowing the “diversity” of God is yet to Come in flesh, when he, God, the Spirit, JESUS said in Genesis 1:26 "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth”. God, JESUS, the Spirit, is speaking of himself to come as a man, but how can he come as a man if a man do not yet exist. so “he” God, JESUS made a man. notice “he” … God made man. that’s the reason why in the very next verse after Genesis 1:26 we read in Genesis 1:27 God said, “HE” made man, not US or OUR, but "HE", meaning a single person, listen. Genesis 1:27 "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them”. Hold it his own IMAGE, but was it not the Image to come? there is something one need to know about God and time, listen, Isaiah 46:10 "Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure". that's how the Image of man is before he was even made."

God, who is a Single PERSON, (alone, and by himself), made man in his Image to come, (which is from the end times). and the term Man/Adam itself tells us what is God’s IMAGE, listen
Man/Adam: H120 אָדָם 'adam (aw-dawm') n-m.
ruddy i.e. a human being (an individual or the species, mankind, etc.).
[from H119]
KJV: X another, + hypocrite, + common sort, X low, man (mean, of low degree), person.
Root(s): H119

there it is, “ANOTHER” of One -self in flesh, (that is to come). the “Son” who is God in flesh is to come as the “ANOTHER” of himself in flesh. supportive scripture, Romans 5:14 "Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come”. BINGO. so at creation all things was MADE by HIM, and that HIM is God without flesh and bone. this is why Jesus, the “entity”, distinct, and independent, or self-contained, said “HE” made all things, in reference to his Spirit self, because now he is “shared” in flesh and blood. that’s why it’s so important to understand and to know the separation of the FLESH/Son of God, from the Spirit of Jesus, Son of man.

NOW, the "FATHER", who is the Holy Spirit, Jesus himself.
knowing that it was the Spirit, and ONLY the Holy Spirit who was here that laid the foundation of the world, and Made man. and the when the fullness of time came, God/Jesus shared himself in flesh, which is called the Offspring, or the diversity of the Holy Spirit in flesh. supportive scripture, Matthew 1:20 "But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost”.

Now people think for just a second, if the Holy Spirit conceived the Child in Mary, who is the Father of the Child? answer the Holy Spirit. BINGO… listen, if 101G conceived the child in Mary, then 101G is the father … right. for the conceiver of a child is the father of that child. and the scriptures plainly and clearly states that the HOLY GHOST is the conceiver of that child. now do anyone say the scriptures is wrong or in error? I hope not, then the FATHER of that child born of Mary is of the Holy Ghost. so the Holy Ghost is the “FATHER”. BINGO. the trinity doctrine says the Holy Ghost is a third Person. well the scriptures don’t say that . but we challenge anyone to find a scripture that states the Holy Ghost is called the third PERSON in the Godhead…. well, if one do I’ll repent, but until then Diversified Oneness rules.

so the HOLY SPIRIT is the FATHER, and the FIRST and ONLY PERSON in the Godhead. so RE-NEW your minds.

NOW if anyone have scripture that refutes that the Holy Spirit is not the conceiver of the child found in Mary, then the trinity has a "BIG" problem as to who is the "FATHER".

what a good way to start off.


PICJAG.

The very first step in RE-NEWING anyone mind is to start at the top or the beginning.

as we said, the Holy Spirit is the Father, the Only Person in the Godhead. and the "Lord" the son, the offspring is the Diversity of HIMSELF in flesh that was to come. hence the plurality of GOD, whom many calls Father, in in flesh.

PICJAG.

DPMartin said:

God is a living being, one all living beings are, two all living beings have presence, and all living things express themselves where they are. God is, God speaks (Word of God) and God has presence (Holy Spirit). Now the place where the presence of living things are is another subject.

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Here is the flaw in your assment,listen, Acts 17:28 "For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring".
so the presence of God who is Spirit is a mute point, but God "diversified" in flesh is the point. we cannot think of God from our point of view but think of God from his point of view.

DPMartin said:

Father Son and Holy Spirit, you can’t get around it. You can deny it but you can’t get around it.

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did you not read post #93 the last half. listen, Matthew 1:20 "But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost”.
What you cannot get around you head around is the TRUTH, for it's false teaching over the years of your life you have believed what you see with your NATURAL mind. understand this concering the natural mind. 1 Corinthians 2:13 "Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
1 Corinthians 2:14 "But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. BINGO, there it is, the natural mind cannot comprehend this teaching from God, like ....... "Diversified Oneness". it's foolishness to them. see it make them call the one's who know a. a modalist, three time, or b. incompetence, just to name a few.... but the bible clearly states that the Holy Spirit is the Father. so what many see in scripture is their spiritual blindness to the truth of the scriptures.

DPMartin said:

Presence of God in the flesh, also known as “God with us”

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or the "Offspring", meaning the "diversity" of God in Intrinsic Spatial.

PICJAG.

Now before we go any further, I would like any trinity believer, or NOT to produce a scripture that the Holy Spirit is not the Father.

for the scriptures are clear the Father is the Holy Spirit, who is the LORD.

Looking to hear for any.

PICJAG.

reformed1689 said:

Simple. Jesus refers to the Father as the Father, Himself as the Son, and the Spirit as the helper he will send. He's not sending the Father.

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The Lord Jesus referes to himself in Spirit as Father. when he says "MY" Father which is in Heaven, he is referring to his OWN Spirit. and the Spirit which is in heaven says my Son he is saying "MY" body on earth.

now do you deny the scripture as to whom the Father is?, Matthew 1:20 "But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost".

PICJAG.