Mother Convicted In Prayer-death Trial

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jamesrage

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Here in this country medical negligence is considered a child abuse. That woman should be charged with a crime. The 1st amendment doesn't allow you to get away child abuse. The 1st amendment doesn't allow you to beat the crap out of people or to murder, why would it allow you to medically neglect your child. It would be one thing if the child has a cold not being able to walk or talk is a completely different matter. God is not a vending machine and why would God provide you with something that you yourself are perfectly capable of doing or providing yourself,such as calling 911 when child wasn't able to walk or talk? Asking God to heal your child when there is a doctor you can take your child to is like asking God to make you a sandwich when you have the stuff in your fridge to make you a sandwich.It would be different if you were out in the middle of the nowhere and praying to God for him to heal someone or if you did take the child to a doctor and the doctor was unable to do anything.http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30890934/WAUSAU, Wis. - A mother accused of praying instead of seeking medical help for her dying 11-year-old daughter was found guilty Friday of second-degree reckless homicide.A Marathon County jury deliberated for about four hours before convicting Leilani Neumann, 41, of rural Weston, of second-degree reckless homicide. The crime is punishable by up to 25 years in prison. No sentencing date was set and Neumann remained free on bond.Neumann declined to comment after the verdict was announced.Her daughter, Madeline Neumann, died of untreated diabetes March 23, 2008, surrounded by people praying for her. When she suddenly stopped breathing, her parents' business and Bible study partners finally called 911.Prosecutors said a reasonable parent would have known something was wrong with Madeline. They said her mother recklessly killed her by ignoring obvious symptoms, such as her inability to walk or talk.
 

Jordan

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This is making me sick to the stomache.James 2:20 - But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? (Also James 2:14, 17, 24, 26)
 

Lookin4wardtoHeaven

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This a crying shame...
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gumby

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I think this is a form of neglect, the lady could have very well sought medical treatment for the child. I beleive in faith healing personally but if doctors can help than so be it.
 

For Life

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Here in this country medical negligence is considered a child abuse. That woman should be charged with a crime. The 1st amendment doesn't allow you to get away child abuse. The 1st amendment doesn't allow you to beat the crap out of people or to murder, why would it allow you to medically neglect your child. It would be one thing if the child has a cold not being able to walk or talk is a completely different matter. God is not a vending machine and why would God provide you with something that you yourself are perfectly capable of doing or providing yourself,such as calling 911 when child wasn't able to walk or talk? Asking God to heal your child when there is a doctor you can take your child to is like asking God to make you a sandwich when you have the stuff in your fridge to make you a sandwich.It would be different if you were out in the middle of the nowhere and praying to God for him to heal someone or if you did take the child to a doctor and the doctor was unable to do anything.http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30890934/WAUSAU, Wis. - A mother accused of praying instead of seeking medical help for her dying 11-year-old daughter was found guilty Friday of second-degree reckless homicide.A Marathon County jury deliberated for about four hours before convicting Leilani Neumann, 41, of rural Weston, of second-degree reckless homicide. The crime is punishable by up to 25 years in prison. No sentencing date was set and Neumann remained free on bond.Neumann declined to comment after the verdict was announced.Her daughter, Madeline Neumann, died of untreated diabetes March 23, 2008, surrounded by people praying for her. When she suddenly stopped breathing, her parents' business and Bible study partners finally called 911.Prosecutors said a reasonable parent would have known something was wrong with Madeline. They said her mother recklessly killed her by ignoring obvious symptoms, such as her inability to walk or talk.
I don't think a crime was committed. The mother had faith that God would heal her child. Does the govt. own the child? They are saying they do. If you don't do what the govt. tells you to do with your child, you go to jail. This wasn't abuse. The only thing the lady did was not take the kid to the doctor. Not everyone believes in doctors. Some people even think doctors do more harm than good. You people even have faith in God. Wouldn't God have healed her if it was His will? So you are saying God's will doesn't matter only popular opinion and the govt.?This was very unfortunate that this child died. It was even more unfortunate that it probably could have been prevented had she been taken to a doctor. The mother tried healing her child the best she knew how. I don't think the mother should be punished because of it. The mother has to live with her decision for the rest of her life. Whether she is jailed or not I'm sure she is punishing herself more than anyone else can.I believe parents should have the choice on how to raise their children, not govt. I want to raise my children according to what I know is right, not according to what the majority says, or what govt. tells me I must do. What happens when the govt. tells you that Christianity is a form of brainwashing (Richard Dawkins preaches this) and children shouldn't be subjected to this abuse? Then the bandwagon you are joining is against you. The idea that it is "for the children" really means that the majority (ie. govt.) gets to tell parents what they can and can't do with their own kids. I want to protect children just like everyone else does but using govt. to do it will backfire. Govt. will be against Christians, it has already started. And they will use the "it's for the children" as their main instrument.
 

Jordan

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Apr 6, 2007
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For life, with all due respect... The Book of Luke and the Book of Acts, the Author whose name is Luke, Luke is/was a doctor. Yes, the mother who had faith in God to heal her... but she did not do works. In this very case according to this story... Faith WITHOUT works is Murder. It is sickening to avoid the ability to heal the daughter medically through what God has provided. That is medically neglecting / abusing the child.In fact, it is very possible that this is just testing God, which this is possibly be correct. The Bible clearly tells us we are not to test God. (Matthew 4:7, Luke 4:12)-------------------------------------This is a longer version of the story of the original post... and this one is written earlier like 4 days or so of the Original Post.-------------------------------------WAUSAU, Wis. (AP) -- A central Wisconsin mother accused of praying instead of seeking medical attention for her dying daughter suffered a brief medical emergency as her homicide trial started Saturday.Leilani Neumann, 41, was checked out by paramedics before she returned to the courtroom in a wheelchair about 30 minutes later.The drama provided a strange irony for the start of what's believed to the first case of its kind in Wisconsin involving faith healing, in which someone died and another person was charged with a homicide.Neumann received immediate medical attention after becoming visibly weak Saturday. Yet she is accused of not seeking medical attention for her 11-year-old daughter, Madeline, last year as the girl grew weak from undiagnosed diabetes. Madeline couldn't talk, couldn't walk, went into a coma and died in the family's rural Weston home on Easter 2008.Neumann and her husband have been charged with second-degree reckless homicide, which carries a maximum penalty of 25 years in prison.Prosecutors contend any reasonable parent would have known something was wrong. They say Neumann, who believes healing comes from God, recklessly killed her daughter by praying instead of rushing her to a doctor.The girl's father, Dale Neumann, 47, is scheduled to face trial starting July 23.About 20 minutes after Marathon County Assistant District Attorney LaMont Jacobson began his opening statement to the jury Saturday, describing the girl's condition the day before she died, the mother rested her head in her arms on the table.Moments later her attorneys expressed concern, asking for a recess so they could get her some air. She appeared faint and visibly weak as she was escorted to a downstairs office.Judge Vincent Howard ordered court security to call 911 and have Neumann medically evaluated after her attorney, Gene Linehan, said she was suffering a total physical and emotional breakdown."She claimed she has no feeling in her arms and legs," Linehan said, telling the judge Neumann could not participate in her defense in her current state.The judge agreed to a recess, saying Neumann "needs a medical evaluation, not a judicial one, at least at this stage."About 30 minutes later Neumann, the mother of three other children, returned to the courtroom."If things get a little stressful, I guess, take a big breath," the judge advised."I'll try," Neumann said.The trial continued with another hour of opening statements without further incident. The first witnesses will testify Monday.Jacobson told the jury the case wasn't about religious freedom or parental rights."This case is about the needless suffering and death of an 11-year-old child," he said.The girl, called Kara, by her parents, needed only some fluids and insulin to get better, Jacobson said.Instead, her mother let the emaciated girl sleep on a couch in a coma, watched her "wheezing and moaning," hand-fed her some broth, sent an e-mail saying "Help, our daughter needs emergency prayer" and refused advice from her mother-in-law to rush the girl to a doctor, he said.The girl showed early symptoms of diabetes by March 2008, Jacobson said. She was tired, weaker and "extremely thirsty," he said.By nightfall on the eve of her death, Madeline was "completely helpless" and the mother told a friend, "she sensed the spirit or Angel of Death present at her home," Jacobson said.Linehan told the jury that when the state charged Neumann with essentially murdering her daughter, it was "like driving a red-hot poker through her broken heart."People who saw the girl a day before she died could see "no indication of any illness whatsoever," certainly nothing as serious as deadly diabetes, the attorney said.The girl was naturally thin and the parents thought some of her symptoms in the days leading to her death were attributed to puberty, Linehan said."Leilani is going to take the stand. She is incredibly religious. She is not ashamed of it," he said. "She will tell you that she honestly believes that she was doing the right thing for her daughter."Praying was a way of life in the Neumann family, to the point that they conducted Bible studies is their now-defunct coffee shop, Linehan said."They pray when they go to work. They pray at work. They pray when they get their tax forms," he told the jury. "It is going to be a sad case. There are no winners here: There's a dead child, a mother with the loss of a child."http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30779558/-------------------------------------
 

jamesrage

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I don't think a crime was committed.
Medical negligence is child abuse in the USA.
The mother had faith that God would heal her child.
Faith does not give one the right to medically neglect / abuse their child. Just as religion does not give you an excuse to not make sure your child recieves schooling, you don't have to send your child to public school but you can send them to private school or you can home school your child.
Does the govt. own the child? They are saying they do.
I think the government is saying you as a parent are required by to take care of your child not medically neglect /abuse them.
This wasn't abuse.
Medical negligence of a minor child is child abuse.
The only thing the lady did was not take the kid to the doctor.
Which resulted in her child's death.
Not everyone believes in doctors.Some people even think doctors do more harm than good.
Who are those people, the same ones who believe aliens kidnapped them and believe in bigfoot? Medical doctors are not shrinks, they actually practice real medicine.
You people even have faith in God. Wouldn't God have healed her if it was His will?
Is God a vending machine? Do you think it is alright to ask God to do something that you yourself are fully capable of doing? That woman was fully capable of taking her child to a doctor to see if the doctor can heal her child. How is this any different than asking him to get you a sandwich when you have the stuff in your fridge to make yourself a sandwich?
I believe parents should have the choice on how to raise their children, not govt.
That choice shouldn't result in a child's death. Should parents be allowed to beat their children? Should parents not make sure their children are educated?
I want to raise my children according to what I know is right, not according to what the majority says, or what govt. tells me I must do. What happens when the govt. tells you that Christianity is a form of brainwashing (Richard Dawkins preaches this) and children shouldn't be subjected to this abuse?
Won't happen, we have this thing in this county called the 1st amendment. This isn't canada,Europe where they can haul preachers off to jail for mentioning the fact homosexuality is a sin.
Then the bandwagon you are joining is against you. The idea that it is "for the children" really means that the majority (ie. govt.) gets to tell parents what they can and can't do with their own kids.
Requiring parents to seek medial help when their child is seriously ill is not the majority telling you how you can and can't raise your children. Children are minors it is their parent's responsibility to care for them to make sure they are education and to provide for their children.
 

For Life

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Medical negligence of a minor child is child abuse.
What is medical negligence? So you are prescribing using the force of govt. to make parents take their children to the doctor? I would think medical negligence only applies to doctors.
I think the government is saying you as a parent are required by to take care of your child not medically neglect /abuse them.
Nope. They are saying you must do what they say, or suffer the consequences.
Medical negligence of a minor child is child abuse.
Sure it is. But only a doctor can be medically negligent.
Which resulted in her child's death.
Lots of things result in death. Seeing a doctor sometimes results in death. Being on this planet results in death.
Who are those people, the same ones who believe aliens kidnapped them and believe in bigfoot? Medical doctors are not shrinks, they actually practice real medicine.
I don't know who they are. I for one don't believe in the infallibility of doctors. They are just people.
Is God a vending machine? Do you think it is alright to ask God to do something that you yourself are fully capable of doing? That woman was fully capable of taking her child to a doctor to see if the doctor can heal her child. How is this any different than asking him to get you a sandwich when you have the stuff in your fridge to make yourself a sandwich?
That's a silly analogy. You don't think it is alright to ask God to heal people? Maybe you should use govt. to forbid that too.
Won't happen, we have this thing in this county called the 1st amendment. This isn't canada,Europe where they can haul preachers off to jail for mentioning the fact homosexuality is a sin.
Its called Incrementalism and its already happening.
Requiring parents to seek medial help when their child is seriously ill is not the majority telling you how you can and can't raise your children.
That's exactly what it is. As soon as you say 'requiring parents' that is the force of govt. mandating how a child is raised. This is just a step of incrementalism. There will be many more.
Children are minors it is their parent's responsibility to care for them to make sure they are education and to provide for their children.
Look at that, we 100% agree on something. How the parent educates and provides for their children is certainly no business of ours or the govt.
 

For Life

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For life, with all due respect... The Book of Luke and the Book of Acts, the Author whose name is Luke, Luke is/was a doctor.
I don't understand what you are trying to say with this. I already know there is a such thing as doctors...???
Faith WITHOUT works is Murder.
Are you sure about that, or is that your opinion? Bible verse?
It is sickening to avoid the ability to heal the daughter medically through what God has provided.
Agreed.
That is medically neglecting / abusing the child.
I'm not so sure about that. The parents didn't tie the kid down and kill her. You don't hear about parents going to jail for not using homeopathic remedies when the MD's run out of options. Parents don't go to jail for not using voodoo when other options fail. Is it because the majority doesn't believe in homeopathic remedies and voodoo? What if they did?
 

Jordan

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Dear For Life,
Faith WITHOUT works is Murder.
Are you sure about that, or is that your opinion? Bible verse?
If you notice I said,
"In this very case according to this story"
Am I saying this as in a whole or only a particular situation in life?
That is medically neglecting / abusing the child.
I'm not so sure about that. The parents didn't tie the kid down and kill her. You don't hear about parents going to jail for not using homeopathic remedies when the MD's run out of options. Parents don't go to jail for not using voodoo when other options fail. Is it because the majority doesn't believe in homeopathic remedies and voodoo? What if they did?
With all due respect, may I ask you a question? Do you even understand what's the difference between physical abuse and medical abuse?
For life, with all due respect... The Book of Luke and the Book of Acts, the Author whose name is Luke, Luke is/was a doctor.
I don't understand what you are trying to say with this. I already know there is a such thing as doctors...???
My whole point was, God had provide ALL of us with good doctors, hospitality etc. Nobody is perfect, and there is good doctors in this world, however, there is no reason at all to medically murder a child.
It is sickening to avoid the ability to heal the daughter medically through what God has provided.
Agreed.
I can't even tell if you are agreeing or disagreeing to be honest... to me, in my honest and humble opinion, sounds like talking both sides of the mouth. Which one are you agreeing with?
 

For Life

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I can't even tell if you are agreeing or disagreeing to be honest... to me, in my honest and humble opinion, sounds like talking both sides of the mouth.
That's because you aren't separating your will from what you want your govt. to do. I don't think govt. should be in charge of parenting and you do.You don't think that I would also find it sickening that these parents didn't do something as simple as taking their child to a doctor to avoid her death? Don't you think that this story alone would cause any parents that weren't taking their kids to the doctor, and only praying for them in life and death situations, to change their actions? You think in addition to that govt. should step in and start parenting too? I disagree with that. I think govt. is too big and powerful already. I also think that they don't have our best interests in mind and that they will use our emotions to take advantage of us. Do you see what light this story puts Christianity in in the publics view who are mainly non-christian? They are trying to show that we are a bunch of backward, fable believing people who aren't fit to raise children. And we are going along with it.
 

Jordan

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I can't even tell if you are agreeing or disagreeing to be honest... to me, in my honest and humble opinion, sounds like talking both sides of the mouth. Which one are you agreeing with?
That's because you aren't separating your will from what you want your govt. to do. I don't think govt. should be in charge of parenting and you do.You don't think that I would also find it sickening that these parents didn't do something as simple as taking their child to a doctor to avoid her death? Don't you think that this story alone would cause any parents that weren't taking their kids to the doctor, and only praying for them in life and death situations, to change their actions? You think in addition to that govt. should step in and start parenting too? I disagree with that. I think govt. is too big and powerful already. I also think that they don't have our best interests in mind and that they will use our emotions to take advantage of us. Do you see what light this story puts Christianity in in the publics view who are mainly non-christian? They are trying to show that we are a bunch of backward, fable believing people who aren't fit to raise children. And we are going along with it.
I find you strange to say that I am not separating my will and government want me to do... In fact I have not heard not one bit that the government wants me to do... I haven't got any letter yet from them telling me what to do.In fact this story had nothing to do with government telling them what to do... the whole story was about common sense. God expects us to have common sense. And what the mother did is refused to use common sense and let her daughter die. Common sense requires work. And denying simple common sense is what gets us into trouble... for example, stealing, murdering, dishonor their parents, etc.She took a way that God is going to do it for them and sit back. God does not live in a box. There is nothing wrong with praying, but it is not a work when the mother is literally a few inches away from her daughter and watching her die.
 

Polar

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This reminds me of the story of a very pious man who was going to trush God to deliver him.He lived in a valley where heavy rains had come over the last couple of days.A park ranger came by stating that his house is likely to be flood and that he should evacuate as soon as possible.He said, "No need. My God will protect and deliver me."As the water rose and the roads had 3-4 inches of water on them, a neighbor came by with a four wheel drive stating that the roads will soon be impassable and offered him a ride to high ground.The man thanked him but replied, "No need. My God will protect and deliver me."The water continue to rise, flooding the first floor of his home. As he was looking out a 2nd story window, a Sheriff's boat came by stating that they would be glad to evacuate him to high ground. All he had to do was hop in.The man again said, "No need. My God will protect and deliver me."And as the water continued to rise, the man saw it as a further testing of his faith.Eventually the water grew so high that the man had to seek refuge on his roof.While he was sitting there, a National Guard helicopter came by and offered to fly him to safety.He reply was again, "No need. My God will protect and deliver me."Eventually the water rises so much that the man has to tread water. He soon grows weary and drowns.When he eventually stands before God he says, "My Lord, why did you not deliver me in my time of need."The Lord replies, "You sill child, what are you talking about? I sent a park ranger, your neighbor, the sheriff, a National Guard helicopter..."The lesson?Sometimes God's deliverance is at the hands of the mortal and mundane.The woman should have sought medical attention for the child right away.
 

Jordan

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Apr 6, 2007
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Polar, this is exactly what it... This is nothing, but testing God. The Bible clearly says NOT to test him.Matthew 4:7 - Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.Luke 4:12 - And Jesus answering said unto him, It is said, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.Deuteronomy 6:16 - Ye shall not tempt the LORD your God, as ye tempted him in Massah.God sent this woman (who medically murdered the daughter) her Mother-In-Law and she REFUSED advice from her Mother-In-Law (on Post#6 of this thread) to rush this girl to the doctor... What the mother did was nothing but of foolishness. I do believe she should get punished...Again, Faith WITHOUT works is Murder in this situation of the story.
 

For Life

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God sent this woman (who medically murdered the daughter) her Mother-In-Law and she REFUSED advice from her Mother-In-Law (on Post#6 of this thread) to rush this girl to the doctor... What the mother did was nothing but of foolishness. I do believe she should get punished...Again, Faith WITHOUT works is Murder in this situation of the story.
Only a doctor can medically murder someone. Refusing advice from your mother-in-law is not a capital offense last time I checked. Faith without works being murder makes no sense whatsoever but if you would like to expound I sure would like to understand.
 

jamesrage

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What is medical negligence? So you are prescribing using the force of govt. to make parents take their children to the doctor?
Sure to make parents use their authority as a parent to properly take care of their child.
I would think medical negligence only applies to doctors.
Types of AbuseAll States, the District of Columbia, American Samoa, Guam, the Northern Mariana Islands, Puerto Rico, and the Virgin Islands provide definitions of child abuse and neglect in statute. As applied to reporting statutes, these definitions determine the grounds for State intervention in the protection of a child's well-being.3 States recognize the different types of abuse in their definitions, including physical abuse, neglect, sexual abuse, and emotional abuse. Some States also provide definitions in statute for parental substance abuse and/or for abandonment as child abuse.snip....NeglectNeglect is frequently defined in terms of deprivation of adequate food, clothing, shelter, medical care, or supervision. Approximately 21 States and American Samoa, Puerto Rico, and the Virgin Islands include failure to educate the child as required by law in their definition of neglect.5 Seven States further define medical neglect as failing to provide any special medical treatment or mental health care needed by the child.6 In addition, four States define as medical neglect the withholding of medical treatment or nutrition from disabled infants with life-threatening conditions.7
Nope. They are saying you must do what they say, or suffer the consequences.
They are saying it is your job as a parent to take case of your children. IF you didn't want to take care of children then I am sure the state or some nice married couple consisting of a man and woman can take care of that child.
Sure it is. But only a doctor can be medically negligent.
Parents and caregivers can be medically negligent.
Lots of things result in death. Seeing a doctor sometimes results in death. Being on this planet results in death.
Willfully refusing to take your child who is gravely ill to the hospital will result in death.There is no if ands or maybes about it .
I don't know who they are. I for one don't believe in the infallibility of doctors. They are just people.
Your beliefs is not an excuse to medically neglect your child.
That's a silly analogy. You don't think it is alright to ask God to heal people? Maybe you should use govt. to forbid that too.
When you refuse to take your child to a trained medical professional it is silly to ask God to heal your child when you yourself have not made the effort on your part to get your child helped. It would be different if these people had taken their child to the hospital and asked God to help the doctors heal their child or if these people where out in the middle of nowhere with no access to any medical care and the asked God to heal their child.
Its called Incrementalism and its already happening.
Requiring parents to take care of property provide and not neglect their child is not incrementalism.
That's exactly what it is. As soon as you say 'requiring parents' that is the force of govt. mandating how a child is raised. This is just a step of incrementalism. There will be many more.
It is not requiring parents to raise a child a certain way it is requiring parents to provide for their child.
Look at that, we 100% agree on something. How the parent educates and provides for their children is certainly no business of ours or the govt.
It is a requirement that you make sure your child is educated,regardless if it is public school,home school or private school.
 

For Life

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Sure to make parents use their authority as a parent to properly take care of their child.
I think parents should properly take care of their children too, but I don't think anyone has the right to force how that is done.
They are saying it is your job as a parent to take case of your children. IF you didn't want to take care of children then I am sure the state or some nice married couple consisting of a man and woman can take care of that child.
They are saying if you don't raise your children according to their guidelines they will take your children away and give them to someone who will follow their guidelines.
It is a requirement that you make sure your child is educated,regardless if it is public school,home school or private school.
Which have laws and rules you must follow mandated by the force of govt. I think I am understanding the difference in our thinking. You think that the govt. actually cares about your children. I think the govt. is only concerned with control and money. Do you think that the govt. is filled with saved Christians and is only for the good will toward men? I do not. Quite the opposite, in fact.
 

WhiteKnuckle

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I don't think a crime was committed. The mother had faith that God would heal her child. Does the govt. own the child? They are saying they do. If you don't do what the govt. tells you to do with your child, you go to jail. This wasn't abuse. The only thing the lady did was not take the kid to the doctor. Not everyone believes in doctors. Some people even think doctors do more harm than good. You people even have faith in God. Wouldn't God have healed her if it was His will? So you are saying God's will doesn't matter only popular opinion and the govt.?This was very unfortunate that this child died. It was even more unfortunate that it probably could have been prevented had she been taken to a doctor. The mother tried healing her child the best she knew how. I don't think the mother should be punished because of it. The mother has to live with her decision for the rest of her life. Whether she is jailed or not I'm sure she is punishing herself more than anyone else can.I believe parents should have the choice on how to raise their children, not govt. I want to raise my children according to what I know is right, not according to what the majority says, or what govt. tells me I must do. What happens when the govt. tells you that Christianity is a form of brainwashing (Richard Dawkins preaches this) and children shouldn't be subjected to this abuse? Then the bandwagon you are joining is against you. The idea that it is "for the children" really means that the majority (ie. govt.) gets to tell parents what they can and can't do with their own kids. I want to protect children just like everyone else does but using govt. to do it will backfire. Govt. will be against Christians, it has already started. And they will use the "it's for the children" as their main instrument.
My mother would not send me to the doctor. She did take me once when I was little, and once when I needed stitches. But, for the most part it didn't matter how sick I got.One time something was seriously wrong. I felt like someone as stabbing me in my stomach, a little lower than my belly button. It hurt so bad I could hardly more and was almost in tears. I couldn't even walk just hobble with tiny tiny steps. I called my mother and told her what was going on. She told me,, If you get a 104 temperature I'll take you. Then hung up the phone.I stayed in that pain for almost a week, I could eat or drink hardly. I had to go down the street and stay with a neighbor so they could look after me. Eventually I got better. I don't know what it was to this day. If something had ruptured I'd have died.One things for sure, the Lord does heal us. I believe he healed me. And it is true that "Not one sparrow will fall from the sky without the will of the Father in heaven"Jesus did say though, "It's not the healthy that need a doctor" Paul even told another apostle "You should have a little wine because of your health"To say this evil woman was Godly and doing what she knew is a lie straight from the pit of hell itself.This woman was only trying to prove something and looking for a sign from God that healing is true. She is decieved and is a murderer.Jesus also said, "A wicked and adulterous generation seeks a sign, but none will be given..."Jesus also said, "Woe unto him that harms even on hair on the heads of these little ones"Jesus also said, "The kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these"I know for a fact this woman wasn't trying to heal her child because she had faith in the Lord. She was testing the Lord, to see if he was true.
 

Jordan

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Apr 6, 2007
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With all due respect, For Life, no where in the articles mentioned the government ever. However, I realize the fact, that when you are answering other people's posts, you are stuck with the whole "government" thing in your head while nobody is saying anything about the government's will. This is all in your head and not us. You keep on with your preconceived minds about our posts including the word "government" attached to it.
 

For Life

New Member
Feb 24, 2007
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With all due respect, For Life, no where in the articles mentioned the government ever. However, I realize the fact, that when you are answering other people's posts, you are stuck with the whole "government" thing in your head while nobody is saying anything about the government's will. This is all in your head and not us. You keep on with your preconceived minds about our posts including the word "government" attached to it.
I don't know if you are being purposely obtuse here or what. Who do you think is putting the mother in prison? Would you rather I said 'legal system' instead of government? If you read the article you posted the prosecuting attorney tells the jury to disregard parents rights in the case. I disagree, of course. I think this case is completely about parents rights. My point is where do you draw the line? Is govt. infallible and any law they pass is for our own good? It seems to me you are giving an awful lot of power to a non-christian entity.