The Necessity Of Tongues As A Prayer Language

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Pariah

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Nov 10, 2007
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There are none.Matthew 6:5And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. 6But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly. 7But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking. 8Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.If anyone care to note, the manifestations of tongues are plural and to come with interpretation of those tongues. It was never meant to be a stand alone gift.1 Corinthians 12:4Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord. 6And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all. 7But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. 8For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; 9To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; 10To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: 11But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will. There is no listing of a singular tongue necessary for praying to God. Divers kinds of tongues are the tongues that are to be interpreted. For the believers in assembly, they were to seek spiritual gifts, but the gift of prophesy was beinge exalted over tongues as tongues was being played down in the whole chapter of 1 Corinthians 14th.Note how Paul leads into that second verse of the unknown tongue: From the first verse, we see Paul exalting the gift of prophesy and downplaying the gift of tongues. If anyone thinks that this justfies prayer language, then you are not reading this same unknown tongue in verse 2 is the same unknown tongue that is to be interpreted in verse 13. Paul is not talking about two kinds of unknown tongues at any time. It is the same unknown tongue that is to be interpreted for the edifying of the assembly.1 Corinthians 14: 1Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy. 2For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries. 3But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort. 4He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church. 5I would that ye all spake with tongues but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying. 6Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine? 7And even things without life giving sound, whether pipe or harp, except they give a distinction in the sounds, how shall it be known what is piped or harped? 8For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle? 9So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air. 10There are, it may be, so many kinds of voices in the world, and none of them is without signification. 11Therefore if I know not the meaning of the voice, I shall be unto him that speaketh a barbarian, and he that speaketh shall be a barbarian unto me. 12Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church. 13Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret. Paul was careful to not give the idea to do away with tongues, but he certainly played down the importance of tongues which is what we are not seeing today. Tongues are everywhere.. and hardly any reason for it when all can speak English or the same language in that assembly. If edification is the main purpose for these manifestations, then tongues without interpretation is like burying the talent or the gift God has given and thus cannot serve as a prayer language for even Paul did not know what he was saying so it profitteth him not for he understood it not the thanks he was giving to God. He would rather understood one or two words than speak a thousand words that edify not.1 Corinthians 14: 14For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful. 15What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also. 16Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest? 17For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified. 18I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all: 19Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue. So once again, unknown tongue is mentioned. One cannot single out verse 2 to imply that there is a prayer language.1 Corinthians 14: 20Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men. 21In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. 22Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe. The manifestations of the Spirit are given to profit the body withal in the knowledge of Jesus so that our love may grow more and more for the assembly of believers, but when believers seek after a sign, they are courting the description of committing spiritual adultery.. and climbing up another way.. chasing after the Holy Ghost when He is in us... is committing adultery when we are the Bride to Jesus Christ: the Bridegroom. I bear witness that there are tongues in the world that are gibberish.. comes with no interpretation, so the idea of prayer language is a dangerous one. It is far better to know what you had prayed for so you can give thanks for answered prayers. There is much vainglorying in prayer language because people will mimick to fit in. AND, Paul clearly spoke against setting any time for this "prayer language" because he wrote of someone coming in to the assembly and thinking them all mad if they all spoke in tongues in this next verse.1 Corinthians 14:23If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad? Now note the purpose of this witness of the gift of prophesying:1 Corinthians 14:24But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all: 25And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth. No one is going to say that if "believers" are calling for the Holy Spirit to come as if He is not already in them.So this preaching another baptism of the Holy Spirit that comes with evidence of speaking in tongues is not Biblical as it is standing apart from the truth.2 Corinthians 11:3But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. 4For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.Ephesians 4: 4There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; 5One Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.That one hope of our calling is towards Jesus Christ so there cannot be "another calling" to get another baptism of the Holy Spirit that comes with evidence of tongues.The fact that you do not need tongues to pray to God shows the comfort of having the Comforter in us in that the Father already knows before we even ask. Many have been misled by other Bible translations to think the Holy Spirit needs to utter groans or make sounds for Him to intercede as this errant version below misleads:Romans 8: 26In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groans that words cannot express. 27And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints in accordance with God's will.Verse 26 implies sounds being made as in how the Holy Spirit can intercede, but in verse 27, we see bad grammar being applied here in translations. How can the "he" which is a Third Person apart from us in searching our hearts and apart from the Spirit to knowing the mind of the Spirit... be the Spirit Himself that makes intercessions for us? Thus the Spirit cannot be the "he" in verse 27 as KJV correctly applies below.Romans 8:26Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. 27And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.Now note verse 26. The Spirit maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered... hence.. no sound at all. Then we note what appears to be a mistake in the KJV as they applied "itself" in referring the Holy Spirit BUT... if we look at the verse as a whole... it is written that the Holy Spirit itself maketh intercession with groanings not uttered, thus leading the believer in asking how then can the Holy Spirit intercede?This leading to verse 27 of the Third person of the he in searcheth our hearts and knoweth the mind of the Spirit in us... and that he is Jesus Christ, the only Mediator between God and man...which conludes as to the reference in according to the will of God.... thus explaining the "itself" application towards the Holy Spirit as the Comforter is the "means" by which Jesus is Our Mediator... as "it" is referring to the Holy Spirit being the means as "self" refers to the Person of the Trinity. Thus the Holy Spirit makes intercessions for us indirectly.. as in a passive sense since it is by Jesus by Whom intercession is made by knowing the mind of the Spirit is how the Father knows already before we ask in prayer. If any doubt lingers, consider that the Word of God is Jesus as He is the Word made flesh.Hebrews 4:12For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 13Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do. 14Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.15For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. 16Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.So we are to come to Jesus in prayer for by Him we can pray to the Father as well, but there are no necessity nor are there any extras after coming to Jesus to have that relationship with Him for it is by coming to Jesus, we have that relationship with God. To look to any other means to relate to God, is to move away from our rest in Him. We relate to God through the Son. To know Jesus is to know God... and we do so by the word as all invitations points to Him.John 5:39Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. 40And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.John 14:6Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.1 Timothy 2:5For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;No exception... no "instead of Christ".. for that is the definition of the "anti-christ"... and we know the Holy Spirit will never fit that description so heed the leading of the Holy Spirit by going to Jesus and remain resting in Him for Jesus Christ is Whom the Gospel is all about... the Good News to man. May God cause the increase.
 

Christina

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Apr 10, 2006
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Again I agree with your post but the facts are there is no unknown tounge the Word unknown is not in the manuscripts it was added by the translators God has no use for babbeling the Word tongues simply means Language but it means the natural language of men The gift of speaking/understanding forgein Languages of men was given to the disciples to allow them to spread the gospel around the World ... We would have no church if hebrew/greek speaking men could not comunicate with those who spoke a differnt language ... This is why we are told not to do this in church ... as it may make you feel good (edify yourself) but it does nothing for the spreading of Gods Word ..Giving a moving speech in English to a group of Spanish speaking people does nothing for the church ... --Speaking in Tongues After the disciples were baptized in the Holy Spirit “they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance” (Ac. 2:4) When the apostles are filled with the Holy Spirit they become the Spirit’s mouthpiece by speaking in tongues (i.e., spoken foreign languages) to a large assembly of foreign Jews. Because the gift of tongues is greatly misunderstood in our day (primarily by Charismatics) it is important that we carefully define the biblical phenomenon of tongues. What are the biblical tongues? Should we expect to see the gift of tongues practiced in the present day? Should believers seek the gift of tongues? These and other questions will be answered as we study tongues in Scripture. There are many areas to consider. (1) The term tongues (in Greek glossa, plural glossais) when used of human speech always refers to the speaking of actual human languages.59 In the Greek translation of the Old Testament (the Septuagint) the word glossa occurs thirty times and always refers to real human languages.60 In the book of Acts where we are introduced to the supernatural phenomenon of tongues speaking, Luke emphasizes the fact the that apostles were speaking real, known, human languages. And there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews, devout men, from every nation under heaven. And when this sound occurred, the multitude came together, and were confused, because everyone heard them speak in his own language. Then they were all amazed and marveled, saying to one another, ‘Look, are not all these who speak Galileans? And how is it that we hear, each in our own language in which we were born?’” (Acts 2:5-8 ) That the disciples were speaking real human languages is evident in the following observations. (a) The tongues were immediately understood by the hearers from several different Roman provinces and lands without any need for interpretation. This fact can only mean that the apostles were speaking real, normal languages. Remember the miracle or sign was in the speaking; not in the hearing. The hearers at this point were not even believers. “What this speaking ‘with different tongues’ means is stated in v. 6: ‘everyone heard them speaking in his own language;’ and in v. 11 : ‘we are hearing them telling with our own tongue the great things of God.’ The disciples spoke in foreign languages that were hitherto unknown to them, in the very languages of the natives of the foreign lands who were presently assembled before them.”61 As if to emphasize that the disciples were speaking real languages and not gibberish, Luke even lists the peoples which heard their native tongues: “Parthians and Medes and Elamites, those dwelling in Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya adjoining Cyrene, visitors from Rome, both Jews and proselytes, Cretans and Arabs–we hear them speaking in our own tongues the wonderful works of God” (Acts 2:9-11) ( B ) In Acts 2, glossais is used by Luke interchangeably with dialektos which the eminent lexicographer J. H. Thayer defines as “the tongue or language peculiar to any people.”62 Obviously, if Luke uses tongues (glossais) and languages (dialektos) in a parallel or synonymous manner, tongues speaking cannot refer to gibberish. “The equation of ‘tongue’ and dialektos in verse 8 shows that speech in different languages is meant.”63 The languages are listed in verses 9 and 11. When we encounter tongues speaking again in Acts chapter 10 we are told by Luke that the Gentiles had the same experience as the Jewish believers in chapter 2. In the historical account, Peter says that the Gentiles “received the Holy Spirit just as we have” (v. 47 ) He tells the Jerusalem church that “the Holy Spirit fell on them [the Gentiles], as on us at the beginning” (Ac. 11:15 ) Again, the apostle says that God gave the Gentiles “the same gift as he did unto us” (v. 17 ) Peter is careful to point out (first to his Jewish companions at Cornelius’ house, then at the first church council) that the Gentiles and Jewish experience was the same. “This likeness of experience extends not only to the fact of receiving the Spirit but to the nature of tongue-speaking in foreign languages.”64 Thus, there is not a shred of evidence within the book of Acts that tongues-speaking is anything but real foreign languages. The fact that tongues in the book of Acts always refers to real human languages is not considered significant or even accepted by all professing Christians. For example, most Charismatics will argue that there are three different kinds of tongues in the New Testament. There are tongues that occur as the initial evidence of being baptized in the Holy Spirit. There are the special tongues for edification in public worship as well as “heavenly tongues” or the tongues used for private prayer. Because there are different types of tongues (we are told) then sometimes tongues could be a real foreign language while at other times it might be a heavenly ecstatic language unknown on earth. While this view is popular, we will see that every use of tongues in the New Testament is a real human language. Let us first examine the tongues used for edification in public worship. In 1 Corinthians Paul discusses the use of tongues in public worship because at Corinth believers had been abusing this gift. They were speaking in tongues at the same time ( 14:23 ) and were speaking in tongues without having the tongues interpreted (14:13-17) When Paul discusses the need for tongues to be interpreted (14:26, 28; cf. 12:10) he uses a Greek word that refers to the translation of a foreign language. When this word (hermencuo) is not used to describe the exposition of Scripture, it simply means “to translate what has been spoken or written in a foreign language into the vernacular.”65 When the word is used of the exposition of Scripture ( e.g., Lk. 24:27 ) it is translated expound. When the word hermencuo is used with regard to tongues it is translated to interpret. An interpreter is someone who translates a foreign language into a language understandable to the present audience. That Paul is referring to real human languages and not some form of ecstatic babbling is also proven by the context. Note the apostle’s analogy between tongues and real human languages. “There are, it may be, so many kinds of languages in the world, and none of them is without significance. Therefore, if I do not know the meaning of the language, I shall be a foreigner to him who speaks, and he who speaks will be a foreigner to me” (1 Cor. 14:10) “We...see that what Paul describes here refers to foreign languages. The speaker uses his ‘voice’ when he is speaking the language that is incomprehensible to Paul. The term ‘barbarian’ [foreigner, NKJV] settles the point regarding the ‘voice’ that is used in speaking a foreign language and thus also in the analogous case when a member of the church similarly uses his voice in speaking with tongues (foreign human languages)”66 The only reason that tongues must be interpreted (i.e., translated) is so the people in the public worship service can understand what is being spoken and thus be edified by it. That the tongues spoken of in 1 Corinthians 14 are real human languages is also supported by the apostle’s teaching in verses 21 to 22: “In the law it is written: ‘With men of other tongues and other lips I will speak to this people; and yet, for all that, they will not hear Me,’ says the Lord. Therefore tongues are for a sign, not to those who believe but to unbelievers...” Here, tongues are compared to a real, foreign language. Paul quotes a section of Isaiah (28:11 ) which refers to the coming of the Assyrians against Judah ( cf. 2 Kings 17-18 ) The strange tongues (i.e., the foreign language) of the Assyrians were a sign to the backslidden nation of impending judgment. Grammatically the tongues (i.e., a real human language) of verse 21 must be the same kind as the tongues mentioned in verse 22. “If Paul considered speaking in tongues to be an unknown utterance [i.e., ecstatic babbling or gibberish], he would not have used the same word twice in these two verses, especially since the meaning of glossa was clearly established in the first usage.”67 “[O]ne thing is unmistakenly clear. These verses conclusively show that ‘tongues’ are not gibberish, but natural foreign languages.”68 But what about private prayer tongues? Is there not biblical proof that believers could speak in an unknown tongue to God for private edification? No. The common Charismatic viewpoint is read into Scripture. As we examine the three passages (Rom. 8:26, 1 Cor. 13:1; 14:2-4 ) commonly used as proof texts for a special private heavenly prayer language, we will see that the charismatic view has absolutely no scriptural basis. One passage used as a proof text actually has nothing to do with tongues: “The Spirit Himself makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered” (Rom. 8:26). Unutterable or unuttered groanings obviously cannot refer to tongues. Since the Spirit’s intercession cannot be articulated (i.e., spoken or uttered) the groanings must take place in the heart of the believers as they ascend to the throne of grace. Another proof text is 1 Corinthians 13:1: “If I speak with the tongues of men and angels.” Charismatics teach that Paul is identifying two separate forms of tongues. Pentecostal scholar Robert E. Tourville writes: “In 1 Corinthians 13:1 Paul states the possibility of speaking in tongues of men (foreign languages) and of angels.”69 Actually the context and the Greek grammar (ean with the subjunctive) make it very clear that the apostle is not instructing Christians about the importance of two separate kinds of tongues, but rather is speaking hypothetically to make a point. He does not instruct the church to pray in the tongue of angels. Rather, Paul is saying no matter how great your spiritual gift is (i.e., even if you could speak the language of angels), you need love. Although angels may indeed have their own separate language, the apostle’s concern here is the necessity of Christian love. The Corinthians were obsessed with special spiritual gifts and were exercising these gifts in a selfish, self-centered, unloving manner. Paul corrects this by contrasting love with a superlative (i.e., a gift even beyond what the apostle is capable of) exaggeration. Lenski writes: “The unreality of Paul’s supposition lies in the general assumption as such. Paul did have this gift to a high degree, 14:18, but he could speak only in some foreign human languages and not by any means in all of them and not at all in the language of the angels. What he here supposes is the ability to use any and every language including that of heaven. He extends the gift to its utmost height, beyond what it ever was or could be. ‘Yet if I have not love,’ even this supreme gift would be all in vain as far as God’s purpose in the bestowal is concerned.”70 Further, what if Christians could speak in the language of angels? Would it resemble the nonsensical gibberish practiced in Charismatic churches? No, it would not. All languages have a very discernable grammatical structure. Linguists have the ability to examine any language (even languages with which they are not unfamiliar) and determine patterns: noun phrases, verb phrases, adjectives, adverbs, etc. Thus, if people were really speaking in the tongues of angels, it could be determined if a real (although heavenly) language were being spoken. The best proof text for private prayer tongues is 1 Corinthians 14:1-5: “Pursue love, and desire spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy. For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands him; however, in the spirit he speaks mysteries. But he who prophesies speaks edification and exhortation and comfort to men. He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church. I wish you all spoke with tongues, but even more that you prophesied; for he who prophesies is greater than he who speaks with tongues, unless indeed he interprets, that the church may receive edification.” The first thing that needs to be noted regarding this passage is that, regardless of one’s interpretation of “edifies himself” (v.4 ) the tongues spoken of through chapter 14 are definite real foreign languages. This point was established by the Greek word for interpret (hermeneuo) which means “to translate a foreign language into the vernacular,” the analogy between tongues and real foreign languages in verses 10 to 11 and the comparison of tongues to the real foreign language of the Assyrians in verses 21 to 22. Further, if Paul was switching from heavenly-private tongues in verses 4 and 5 to real foreign language-public tongues in verses 6 and following, we could expect some sort of transition indicating such a change. There is nothing within chapter 14 that indicates that the apostle believed in two different (heavenly-private, earthly-public) kinds of tongues.71 And, as noted, the “tongues of angels” (13:1) was purely hypothetical. This fact is important because: (a) It proves that all tongues in the New Testament are the same as the tongues in Acts (i.e., real foreign languages); and, (
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if one believes or teaches that 1 Corinthians 14:2-4 justifies the private use of tongues in devotions, then there is an objective test to determine if a professing Christian is speaking gibberish (i.e., syllabic unstructured nonsense) or a real foreign language: the private tongue-speaking could be tape-recorded and submitted to any competent linguist for verification. Does this passage really teach the private use of tongues? No. Paul is discussing edification in the assembly during public worship. He argues that he prefers prophecy over tongues because of its superior capability for the edification of the church. When he says, “He who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but God, for no one understands him,” he is not telling the Corinthians that they should be praying in tongues to God in private; he is emphasizing that without an interpreter, no one in the assembly understands except God. “It is equally clear that audeis akouse [lit. no one hears], does not mean that tongues were inaudible, or that no one listened to them, but that no one found them intelligible. One might as well have heard nothing.”72 Likewise when Paul discusses praying and singing with the Spirit (both of which are primarily directed to God), he makes it clear that it must be interpreted, since it takes place in public worship: “Otherwise, if you bless with the spirit, how will he who occupies the place of the uninformed say ‘Amen’ at your giving of thanks, since he does not understand what you say” (1 Cor. 14:16 ) ? It is simply bad exegesis to take a passage where Paul is correcting an abuse in the public worship service and turn it into an excursus on private devotional prayer. Such a thought was not at all in the apostle’s mind. But, then, what does Paul mean when he says, “He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself”? Can one at least deduce from this statement that private tongues are useful for sanctification? No. There are a number of reasons why such a view must be rejected. First, the whole thrust of the chapter is to condemn uninterpreted tongues as useless. The context indicates that the apostle is describing someone who speaks in tongues in church (i.e. public worship) without an interpreter. Throughout this chapter, Paul argues again and again for the need to interpret tongues; otherwise, the church is not edified: “Since you are zealous for spiritual gifts, let it be for the edification of the church that you seek to excel. Therefore let him who speaks in a tongue pray that he may interpret” (1 Cor. 14:12-13) Since the whole thrust of chapter 14 is the edification of the body, it is probable that “edifies himself” is meant to be taken in a negative-pejorative sense. To speak in tongues without an interpreter merely calls attention to oneself and does not benefit the body. People who speak in tongues without an interpreter are showing off. Second, if one takes the common Charismatic interpretation he violates the overall broad context of scripture. The Pentecostal view is that believers can be edified by speech that is not understood; that a believer can be sanctified by a non-cognitive, mystical experience. The problem with this view is that Paul explicitly says that understanding is necessary if Christians are to be edified (14:5, 9, 12-17 ) If an individual could be edified without understanding, then so could a group of believers. Obviously, the apostle would not contradict himself within the same chapter. Further, there is nothing in Scripture which indicates that God’s people can be edified mystically apart from understanding divine revelation. Jesus said, “Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth” (Jn. 17:17; cf. 1 Pet. 1:22; 2:2; Ps. 119:9 ff., etc ) One should not adopt an interpretation which contradicts the overall teaching of Scripture. One could argue that the person who spoke in tongues was edified because God gave him the understanding. In other words the Spirit enabled the speaker to translate his own message. The problem with this view is twofold: (a) If God gave the individual tongue-speaker the understanding of the tongues message, then why would that person not share that crucial information with the congregation? (
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If the tongue-speaker has the supernatural ability to translate his own tongues then why doesn’t Paul simply instruct tongue-speakers to tell the congregation the translation instead of giving a dissertation on the superiority of prophecy? In fact Paul says in verse 5 that if the tongues speaker did interpret the foreign language, prophecy would not be superior. The gift of tongues and the interpretation of tongues are two separate gifts. There is no example in Scripture of a person speaking in tongues and then translating the message for the benefit of the congregation. One thing is very clear, Paul is not teaching that Christians should use uninterpreted tongues in public or private to be edified.73 Why is it so important to establish from Scripture that tongues-speaking always refers to real foreign languages and not gibberish? It is significant because it gives one an objective method to determine if modern tongues-speaking is genuine, or manmade nonsense. If the Charismatic movement is truly a work of God, then anyone should be able to verify it simply by recording people speaking in tongues and having it analyzed by linguists, to see what language was being spoken. If tongues are merely the gibberish one encounters in Charismatic churches and not real languages, then tongues are not a sign to unbelievers, as Paul clearly asserts. A sign is a publicly verifiable miracle. “Speaking in foreign languages which were not learned would certainly constitute a divine miracle; however, speaking in gibberish or in unknown sounds could easily be done by either a Christian or an unsaved person.”74 Every instance in the twentieth century where Charismatic tongues-speaking was taped and analyzed by linguists revealed that modern “tongues” were not real languages but gibberish. Modern tongues-speaking doesn’t even resemble any language structurally. “The conclusion of the linguists indicates that modern glossolalia is composed of unknown sounds with no distinguishing vocabulary and grammatical features, simulated foreign features, and a total absence of language characteristics. The essential character of this new movement is therefore at variance with the biblical phenomenon of speaking in known languages.”75 Thus we conclude that modern tongues-speaking contradicts the clear testimony of Scripture, as well as objective empirical findings. Here is a challenge to any Pentecostal or Charismatic: tape your church service and have the “tongues” that are spoken analyzed objectively. There are a number of other indicators that reveal modern tongues to be a fraud. Charismatics are taught how to speak with “tongues.” They are told things such as, “Now pray audibly but don’t speak English.” Or, “Start to speak syllables–just let it flow.” Many Charismatics learn how to speak in “tongues” (gibberish) by imitating others in their church or at a conference. Do we encounter anyone in the New Testament being taught how to pray in tongues? No, the exact opposite is the case. Those who speak in tongues in the book of Acts, for example, never ask what to do, and are never told to do or say anything. In the biblical accounts people speak in tongues spontaneously. In Acts 2:4, 10:46 and 19:6, those who spoke in tongues did so with no prompting or preparation. In fact, in each case, those who spoke in tongues, prior to the moment they spoke in tongues, did not know such a thing as tongues even existed! Thus, not only is modern tongue-speaking gibberatic nonsense compared with the real foreign languages spoken in the New Testament, but also the way in which Charismatics “receive” tongues is completely different than that in the biblical record. Further, as we carefully noted earlier, the special revelatory gifts of tongues and prophecy ceased with the close of the canon and the death of the apostles. If modern “tongues” (i.e., gibberish) are completely different than tongues in Scripture (which were real, foreign languages), what happened to real, biblical tongues? The bible teaches that tongues and the other supernatural sign gifts ceased: Love never fails; but if there are gifts of prophecy, they will be done away; if there are tongues, they will cease; if there is knowledge, it will be done away. For we know in part, and we prophesy in part; but when the perfect comes, the partial will be done away. When I was a child, I used to speak as a child, think as a child, reason as a child; when I became a man, I did away with childish things. For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face; now I know in part, but then I shall know fully just as I also have been fully known (1 Cor. 13:8-12 NASB) Paul contrasts the revelatory gifts of prophecy, special knowledge and tongues, which by nature are piecemeal and incomplete, with the complete canon of Scripture (which was completed with the 27 books of the N.T ) That which was to supercede the partial and do away with it was something designated “perfect.” “But when the perfect comes, the partial will be done away.” It is difficult to miss the antithetic parallel between the “partial” thing and the “perfect” (“complete, mature, full”) thing. Since the “partial” speaks of prophecy and other modes of revelational insight (v. 8 ) then it would seem that the “perfect,” would supplant these, represents the perfect and final New Testament Scripture (Jas. 1:21 ) This is due to the fact that modes of revelation are being purposely contrasted. Thus, it makes the man of God adequately equipped to all the tasks before him (2 Tim. 3:16-17 ) In other words, there is a coming time when will occur the completion of the revelatory process of God.[75] The primary objection used against this passage by Charismatics has to do with the phrase “face to face.” They argue that this expression refers to seeing Christ “face to face” at the second coming; thus, the supernatural gifts are to continue until the second coming. This interpretation, however, must be rejected for the following reasons. (1) Our Lord told the apostles that they would be empowered by the Holy Spirit to complete His teaching mission. The Spirit would “guide them into all truth” (Jn. 16:13 ) and “bring all things to remembrance” (Jn. 14:26 ) It doesn’t make a lot of sense to argue that we must wait for the second coming when our redemption is complete to receive the finality of revelation regarding Jesus’ work. (2) In the passage under discussion there is an antithetic parallel between the “partial” (i.e., various modes of revelation) and the “perfect.” Given the fact that Paul has set up a parallel or contrast between the piecemeal revelations and the perfect revelation, it makes sense to interpret the perfect as the completed canon of Scripture (the finished N.T. ) Paul is looking forward to the completion of the revelatory process of God. (3) It is an historical fact that all modes of special revelation did cease with the death of the apostles and the completion of the New Testament. Believers living in the present (A.D. 2004) have exactly the same number of New Testament books as Christians living in A.D. 67 had (or if one takes a late date for the book of Revelation—A.D. 96 ) Indeed, the perfect did come and it is still with us. Since we have a completed canon, and since the Bible is all we need for salvation, life and godliness, what purpose would modern tongues and prophecy serve? (4) The parallel that Paul sets up in verse 12 is not between being able to see Jesus and not being able to look at the Lord, but rather between looking at a mirror darkly (en ainigmati), that is a mirror of inferior quality (Only people of wealth could afford mirrors of fine quality in the ancient world. Mirrors of inferior quality could make the face look distorted.), and looking directly at a person’s face (“Face to face” is an adverbial phrase without an object. Therefore, Paul is not making a point about any particular face.). Paul is simply contrasting that which is incomplete and therefore “dim” or unclear with that which is complete and clear. This interpretation is confirmed by Paul’s own explanation in the second half of verse 12 where the “dim mirror” is set in parallel with “know in part” and “face to face” is set in parallel with “know fully.” Further, if the decisive factor in receiving a full revelation of Jesus’ redemption was meeting Him in person, then our Lord would not have said to the apostles: “It is your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you” (Jn. 16:7 ) There are a number of other problems associated with the Charismatic practice of speaking in “tongues.” (a) Most Charismatics teach that everyone who is baptized with the Spirit should speak in tongues.76 Thus, the leaders in such churches often go to great length to teach people how to speak in tongues. Such a view, however, clearly contradicts the Bible. Paul asks, “Do all speak with tongues?” (1 Cor. 12:30 ) The construction of this rhetorical question demands a no answer. When the apostle lists the spiritual gifts in the same chapter he makes it clear that not all believers have the same spiritual gift saying “to another different kinds of tongues” (v. 10 ) Paul assumes that only some believers had the gift of tongues. Further, he says, “I wish you all spoke with tongues” (1 Cor. 14:5 ) This statement alone proves that everyone in the Corinthians church did not speak with tongues. If the apostle held to the common Charismatic teaching on tongues as the universal initiation sign of Spirit-baptism, would he not have lectured the Corinthians on how to receive Spirit-baptism, so that everyone could speak in tongues? (
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Paul tells the Corinthian church that no one is to speak in tongues without proper interpretation (14:28 ) because without an interpretation the church will not receive any edification (14:4-5 ) Yet in Charismatic churches it is very common for a number of people to spout forth gibberish with no interpretation at all. (c) Further, the apostle instructs the church to allow only two or three people at the most to speak in tongues and these individuals must take turns to preserve church order (14:27, 30 ) Yet, in most Charismatic churches numerous people (i.e., many more than 2 or 3 ) speak gibberish at the same time. Also, the biblical requirement of speaking in turn is not observed. (d) The Charismatic obsession with tongues is unwarranted given the fact that it is the gift ranked dead last in the apostle’s enumeration (12:28 ) Why not seek and desire the best gifts (1 Cor. 12:31 ) ? Could it be that speaking nonsensical gibberish is very easy, while making accurate detailed predictions about the future or healing compound fractures is very hard? Could it be that the Charismatic movement is fueled by self-deception and counterfeit miracles? http://www.entrewave.com/view/reformedonline/Pentecost, part 5.htm
 

Polar

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"The Charismatic obsession with tongues is unwarranted given the fact that it is the gift ranked dead last in the apostle’s enumeration (12:28 ) Why not seek and desire the best gifts (1 Cor. 12:31 ) ? Could it be that speaking nonsensical gibberish is very easy, while making accurate detailed predictions about the future or healing compound fractures is very hard? Could it be that the Charismatic movement is fueled by self-deception and counterfeit miracles?" -- Christina- I guess that's one way to ensure no one is going to spend time trying to reason with you.
 

Ruth

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there are two types of tongues, one is earthly language, with interpretation, to edify the church. The other is given for the believer, and a language only God understands, this edifies and strengthens the believer. (to lazy to look up scripture, but its in Corinthians)Paul wished all could have this, but they do not.
 

Jordan

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there are two types of tongues, one is earthly language, with interpretation, to edify the church. The other is given for the believer, and a language only God understands, this edifies and strengthens the believer. (to lazy to look up scripture, but its in Corinthians)Paul wished all could have this, but they do not.
With all due respect,Where was this so called language that only God understands... I don't see an unknown language anywhere in the bible. In fact unknown is not even in the manuscripts... it was written by man to "try" to clarify what tongues means. And no where in the bible does it ever say to edify yourself, but rather only to edify the Body of Christ.You are saying what men has say like over a million times.
 

Pariah

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Again I agree with your post but the facts are there is no unknown tounge the Word unknown is not in the manuscripts it was added by the translators God has no use for babbeling the Word tongues simply means Language but it means the natural language of men
I thank you for confirming the Word and for continuing to minister to those that are wawyard in this forum that we may present them as a chaste bride to Christ as He enables us.However, as you are correct in the adding of the word "unknown" by the translators, it is for clarity that it is referring to a language that the one gifted with tongues does not understand. They repeated that term in the same chapter as it is clear the reference of unknown means a foreign language as those gifted with tongues are to pray that someone may interpret.I reckon that if the word "unknown" was removed, readers that hear His voice would still understand the meaning as those that do not hear His voice but a stranger's voice..( and what better description of a stranger's voice than a tongue that comes without interpretation?...) will probably continue to follow the stranger's voice, unless God peradventures gives them knowledge unto repentance to deliver them from this snare of the devil. One can hope.
there are two types of tongues, one is earthly language, with interpretation, to edify the church. The other is given for the believer, and a language only God understands, this edifies and strengthens the believer. (to lazy to look up scripture, but its in Corinthians)Paul wished all could have this, but they do not.
Actually, if you read the whole chapter again, Paul was led by the Spirit of God to seek above ALL spiritual gifts the gift of prophesy. By His grace, if you will see the tone and the context of the message throughout the netire chapter, Paul was downplying the importance of tongues from verse 2 on after exhorting the gift of prophesy over ALL spiritual gifts. Why else would he keeps comparing tongues to prophesy throughout the chapter and yet led to declare not to forbid speaking in tongues? Becuase paul was downplaying the hype about tongues in those days as these words are saying now but because of thye supernatural phenomenon, believers are skimming the scriptures to justify using the gift of tongue as a prayer language when clearly by His Word, we do not need prayer language for God the Father to know what is going on for He already knows before we even ask.That is the Holy Spirit fulfilling His role as the Comforter as Jesus Christ that searches our hearts and knows the mind of the Spirit within us is the Only One mediating for the saints in according to the will of God thus answering how the Holy Spirit can intercede for us with no sounds uttered and how the Father in Heaven knows before we even say anything or ask.
 

Christina

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"The Charismatic obsession with tongues is unwarranted given the fact that it is the gift ranked dead last in the apostle’s enumeration (12:28 ) Why not seek and desire the best gifts (1 Cor. 12:31 ) ? Could it be that speaking nonsensical gibberish is very easy, while making accurate detailed predictions about the future or healing compound fractures is very hard? Could it be that the Charismatic movement is fueled by self-deception and counterfeit miracles?" -- Christina- I guess that's one way to ensure no one is going to spend time trying to reason with you.
Yes I would agree and God has no use for something that we call today tongues Babbling it was a movement that came about in the early 1900's it was later denounced as evil by those who started it ...but to late to stop the movement ..they then went to the Catholic church in the 1960's to get a doctrine formed for the church .... And grew to what it is today ... Todays babbel has not a thing to do with the gifts in 1 Cor. or Acts ..its strickly a doctrine of men ... And those are historacal facts but im sure those that speak it will argue ... When God or the Angels speak with us we understand what they say ...Angels by diffention are messengers and not of gibberish ..God doesnt speak gibberish if we are blessed enough to have God speak to us he doesnt waste his time with Babbel (which means confusion)
 

josiahdefender

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Of course I get to be the stick in the mud again and counter the general flow. While Pariah did give some really good points on avoiding Charismatic non-sense and I agree with her/him, I dont throw the baby out with the bath water. Tongues being low on the list of certain gifts does not mean God has no more need or that we have no more need for it.Tongues being misused just like any other gift or blessing weve received does not prove its not needed or to be asked for.Tongues whether angelic or human, has its place only by reason of the operation of the Holy Spirit, not by the 'by your leave' of human rationale.Tongues or (an unknown language to us) is not forbidden to be used in private by the Apostle Paul. Public usage of Tongues falls under a couple of important guidelines. Order in the Church and its edification of the Church. Pauls instruction about tongues did not at any time dismiss the operation of Tongues or diminish the value of tongues unless the "Tongue" was disorderly or without interpretation. Pariah did a good job on explaining the necessity to connecting the two. So it can be admitted that disorderly Tongues is a non-edifying action by some individuals, and Tongues given in public without interpretation bring nothing edifying to the hearts and minds of the congregation. But its entirely human rationale to dismiss Tongues totally because of its limitations and its abuses. I didnt read from the scripture text anything that removed Tongues from being a gift to be sought after, what I read was about seeking gifts that for the most part many Christians have no faith to believe for or receive and expect the Spirit of God to manifest himself as "grace-giftedness". Heres a connection that is common, those who dismiss tongues entirely usually dismiss healings and miracles too. So while they catagorize Tongues as a "lesser" gift, inferior to others. Those greater gifts are not sought after, they are not acquired and the end of their testimony is "I dont operate in any gift". Now, is that the point of Pauls Message to the Corinthians? Was Paul trying to get the Corinthians to follow the same route that some of you all are taking? Namely, cut down the importance of Tongues and create the feeling that the other gifts of healings and miracles are not going to happen anyway so....Just go after love without the accompanying manifestations of God's power. Another way of saying it, go ahead and seek God to give you love cause its easy to masquerade that, its much harder to masquerade a life of faith that is devoid of Spiritual giftings. Here's another way of saying it; "God, you are restricted to my willingness to love folks according to my own ability. Supernatural displays of tongues or miracles I dont really have faith for, so youve got to work with all I have for you". The reality is, we are all on some level or another able to love or serve according to the working of the Spirit of God within us. But to concoct a human rationale for dismissing tongues because "you" dont see the need for them and then attribute that to God is a slap in God's face not your brothers.Josiahdefender
 

Polar

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"For he that speaketh in a tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God; for no man understandeth; but in the spirit he speaketh mysteries."-- 1 Cor. 14:2
 

Pariah

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....some really good points on avoiding Charismatic non-sense and I agree with...., I dont throw the baby out with the bath water.
Any tongues gained by or give cause for preaching another baptism of the Holy Spirit with evidence of tongues can be thrown out as a dirty fountain. We are to test the spirits and so, thereby we are to test the tongues to amke sure believers did not gain the tongues found already in the world which comes without interpretation.
Tongues or (an unknown language to us) is not forbidden to be used in private by the Apostle Paul. Public usage of Tongues falls under a couple of important guidelines. Order in the Church and its edification of the Church. Pauls instruction about tongues did not at any time dismiss the operation of Tongues or diminish the value of tongues unless the "Tongue" was disorderly or without interpretation.
There is no manifestation of tongues to serve as a prayer language. This same unknown tongue in verse 2 of 1 Corinthians 14 is the same unknown tongue that is to come with interpretation. The list of the manifestations of the Spirit does not have tongues as a prayer language in 1 Corinthians 12:7-11, but as divers kings of tongues that is to be followed by the interpretation of those tongues. If one reads the whole chapter starting from the very first verse, one can see that prophesy is the gift to seek above ALL spiritual gifts and then note the downplaying of tongues in verse 2. Paul was not signifying tongues to serve as a prayer language but as testifying by itself, it does not profit the body withal. He goes on comparing tongues that are to come with interpretation with prophesying which as a spiritual gift, prophesying serves the body quicker and better than tongues does, even though it also is to be done by two or three while one judges.
But its entirely human rationale to dismiss Tongues totally because of its limitations and its abuses. I didnt read from the scripture text anything that removed Tongues from being a gift to be sought after,
Neither were any of the other spiritual gifts, but yet tongues was downplayed so much, so that believers will seek the gift of prophesying.
Heres a connection that is common, those who dismiss tongues entirely usually dismiss healings and miracles too. So while they catagorize Tongues as a "lesser" gift, inferior to others. Those greater gifts are not sought after, they are not acquired and the end of their testimony is "I dont operate in any gift".
Quite the contrary. What is being dismissed is the exhortation given by Paul to seek the gift of prophesy over ALL spiritual gifts and because of tongues found in the world, many are gaining tongues by seeking another spirit to receive by the preaching of another baptism of the Holy Spirit that comes with evidence of tongues which is in complete contrast of what Paul was exhorting by the Spirit of God to seek after of all spiritual gifts... so this exposes this as the spirit of error.
The reality is, we are all on some level or another able to love or serve according to the working of the Spirit of God within us. But to concoct a human rationale for dismissing tongues because "you" dont see the need for them and then attribute that to God is a slap in God's face not your brothers.
It is a slap in the face of God when one says faith in Jesus Christ is not enough and that you cannot rest in Jesus because you need to seek this another baptism of the Holy Spirit that comes with evidence of tongues in order to have life. Indeed, many judge those that do not jump through their hoops or follow after them as a dead church so the condemnation part as well as the slap in the face of God part are on the tongue speakers not correcting those that speak in tongues of the mounting errors within that church.It is slap a slap in the face of God that wayward believer thinks they need tongues to pray to God when even before we ask anything in prayer, the father already knows.So tongues as a prayer language is unnecessary and by itself, makes God look like a hypocrit by burying a talent that bears no interest whatsoever... as coming without interpretation to not profit the body withal.If all spoke in tongues and someone came in and thinks them all mad thus being a poor witness.. what about those that come on those that pray privately?And since there are voodooists and other spirit mediums that speak in tongues without interpretation, would God give that gift as a prayer language thus causing doubts as to whomever He delivered from those rudiments found already in the world since we are called to stand apart from the world in being witnesses of Him?AND.. since tongues are to come with interpretation, has anything new been conveyed in all the years of tongue speaking that has not been found in the scriptures of the King James Bible for edification?So then maybe tongues has ceased because the Bible is here for us to plainly read for our edification.1 Corinthians 13: 8Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. 9For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. 10But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. 11When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.If tongues with interpretation or the Gospel being spoken in their langauge would still be in use in other parts of the world where scriptures are not available in that language, I know not, but it is obvious that there are too many defending of tongues without interpretation and not enough discerning the tongues and the spirit that brought them.
 

Polar

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"There is no manifestation of tongues to serve as a prayer language." -- Pariah-- You are not just wrong but spectacularly wrong.Millions of Americans, myself included pray in tongues during the course of praise and worship.During quiet times at home or praise and worship at church, allowing the Holy Spirit to speak through you in sotto voice, in a soft whisper, or in normal voice while praising God is one of the most beautiful things a Christian can experience.When praying while in pain, praying in the spirit is a wonderful release and brings such a sense of peace.When praying and praising in the spirit, the peace and joy it illicits can be amazing. The intermingling of praying in the spirit and using your own voice to pray and praise is a gift from God. You have no idea what you are missing but you are no position to say what obviously exists, doesn't.
 
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BenTobijah

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PolarHow arrogant can you be to presume YOUR prayer life is better than mine because when I pray, I pray in English, my language, and not some “gibberish.” Most often my praying is silent, communicating with the Father through the Son in my mind. That language, as it’s in my mind, is English not Spanish or another language that I do not know because if it was in another language I wouldn’t know what I was saying. (By the way when I pray in English the people that live next to me do not understand what I am praying because they speak Somali or something.)You know, of course, when Peter preached his message in Acts, he spoke in his own language. What came from his vocal cords was Aramaic, but what the crowd heard was in their own language, right to the very dialect from the town where they were born. Somewhere between Peter and his audience, the words were changed. The language Peter’s audience heard was unknown to Peter, not to God
 

Polar

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"How arrogant can you be to presume YOUR prayer life is better than mine because when I pray, I pray in English," -- Ben-- How arrogant can you be to imply that I even implied that. Not even close. Read it again.Pariah says there is no such thing.I know there is and live it myself.Care to share where I said it voided regular heartfelt native tongue prayer? Where exactly did I say that if he doesn't pray in the spirit his prayers aren't as good. Feel free to scroll back. I can wait. I pointed out that praying and praising in the spirit, intermixed with praying and praising through my regular voice - in my native tongue - is a beautiful heartfelt God-given experience that I would never trade.I said he has no idea what he is missing...I didn't say his walk with God missed the boat. Relax, take a deep breath and reread lol
 

BenTobijah

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...Relax, take a deep breath and reread lol
Again you arrogantly presume YOU know something about Pariah’s prayer life or anyone else’s prayer life. Don’t be so foolish.I also DO NOT need You to tell me how to breath, nor do I need to re-read your “stuff.”
 

Polar

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"Again you arrogantly presume YOU know something about Pariah’s prayer life or anyone else’s prayer life. Don’t be so foolish." -- Ben-- Wow, you sure are eager to play the victim, aren't you? All I know about Pariah's prayer life what he said: "There is no manifestation of tongues to serve as a prayer language" and that is all I commented on. Period.What I find hypocritical in your "You have no right to comment on someone else's prayer life" rant is that you don't hold Pariah to the same standard. He is the one that says, contrary to the prayer practices of millions of Christians, that "there is no manifestation of tongues to serv as a prayer language."Selective outrage doesn't become you. You really do need to take that deep breath, big guy LOLOr you could continue to rant, ignoring the fact that I was talking to Pariah and not you. Either is fine with me.
 

josiahdefender

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Hello Pariah: I thought you presented your case well for abuses. I think you go to far when you become a cessationist. Evidently thats what you believe and thats fine. I dont believe in cessationism because God has given the gift of tongues to me, I have interpreted as well and Prophecied as well. You will do better to take your cues from those who actually have the giftings than from those who dont and then teach you that you cannot have them. 1cor13 is an old proof text for cessationism and its a poor hermeneutic that attempts to use it. Sorry Pariah, we dont agree on this one.I know of good men, good theologians that are cessationist and we frankly part company (agree to disagree) on the subject. You use some vernacular that is interesting. Talking about "another" kind of baptism of the spirit. Is this a veiled way of saying that those who speak in tongues do not have the Holy Spirit but "another" spirit? Are you accusing them of demon possession because they speak in tongues? Pariah this website has so many loonies on here now, youve got every kind of mis-fit doctrine being promoted as 'meat' of the word...and Ive seen you stand your ground against it, but to go this far against Tongues is not biblical exegesis but a kind of personal dismissal opinioned by proof text. Lastly Pariah, you might want to look again at 1cor14. Youre reading into Paul a dismissal of tongues that is not in the text. I dont have to be a tongue talker to see that you are eisogeting the text with a cessationist bent. Look. vs 1 and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy...ok so I should desire tongues, but even more edifying is prophecy.So Pariah do you prophecy? Do you have something from the Spirit of God to declare to the church? Im not talking about a bible reading or quoting. Prophecy is a forth-telling or a foretelling. Bible quoting is not the same thing? So....do you seek to obey the first verse? look at vs 5 I would that ye all spake with tongues but rather that ye prophesied...ok so Paul would have us speak in tongues..but to him its better to prophecy. Again no forbidding of Tongues, so removal of them or dismissing them altogether is not Pauls words, but your own. look again at vs 13 Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret Pariah, you know what this means? It means that if God gives me tongues I should pray for another gift which is to interpret them in a public assembly. So, do you still seek to forbid me from seeking Tongues when its obvious I can seek for them, and I should also seek to edify the congregation with interpretation of tongues? Again, there is no dismissal of tongues, but a "way in which tongues can edify the public congregation". So, we should obey the scripture and do so.Notice, that prayer for "interpretation" leads to an assumption. That a supernatural act was needed to intelligently understand the message of God. It wouldnt do to simply find "an interpreter" to Pauls language, but to pray that the Spirit would gift the speaker or someone else with the ability to interpret the tongue. Interesting huh? If you can still continue..look at this text. vs 18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all Do you think Paul is saying that tongues are a useless gift because Paul had the revelation of the New Testament, Why would Paul bother with tongues when according to your theory, the new testament replaces the tongue gift? Its Kinda obvious, Paul didnt think that way and neither should we. Paul spoke in tongues more than those who otherwise boasted on their gift. Yet his revelations of Jesus Christ didnt hamper his desire to pray in tongues either in private or public. Paul again tempers his tongue speaking quantity with the important principle of edification of the church when unlearned people are present to hear Paul's tongues. Pauls point for the last 20 verses has been...seek for spiritual gifts (tongues) but if you do, ask for the gift to interpret as well. But the singular gift of prophecy is edifying to all since its a revelation gift that speaks to the congregation in its native tongue. Ive yet to run into anything that dismisses tongues or equates the usage of tongues and interpretation as a slap in the face to God. What I do see is the interpretation youve placed upon 1cor13 to say that tongues have ceased couldnt be more erroneous. There is no necessity of Paul taking up essentially 3 chapters of the new testament to discuss spiritual gifts if they are gone by the time the Apostles have all died by 90AD. So whatever read-in your doing to push out tongues or prophecy because we have the bible is counter productive. Remember, its the bible thats teaching us we are to seek spiritual gifts, its not "some extraneous information" elsewhere that takes us toward spiritual giftings, but the canon of scripture itself that validates its being sought, obtained and practiced in orderly edifying acts.Josiahdefender
 

Pariah

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"There is no manifestation of tongues to serve as a prayer language." -- Pariah-- You are not just wrong but spectacularly wrong.Millions of Americans, myself included pray in tongues during the course of praise and worship.During quiet times at home or praise and worship at church, allowing the Holy Spirit to speak through you in sotto voice, in a soft whisper, or in normal voice while praising God is one of the most beautiful things a Christian can experience.
So can the voodooists and the wizards testify of similar things. Would God mimick a prayer language that can be found in the world before the Gospel came? And yet how do they receive these tongues? By seeking another spirit to receive... as in a familiar spirit.What was prophesied? 1 Timothy 4:1-2 So millions of Americans are confirming the falling away of the faith by seeking another spirit to receive in order to get tongues, and yet, Paul as led by the Spirit of God was exhorting prophesying over tongues. Go figure.
When praying while in pain, praying in the spirit is a wonderful release and brings such a sense of peace.When praying and praising in the spirit, the peace and joy it illicits can be amazing. The intermingling of praying in the spirit and using your own voice to pray and praise is a gift from God. You have no idea what you are missing but you are no position to say what obviously exists, doesn't.
I am certain that tongues without interpretation exists, but it is not of the Lord if received by seeking another baptism of the Holy Spirit that comes with evidence of tongues. If there be any true tongue speakers out there, they would be protesting out all over the place when this was and still is being preached, but they are not.So tell me what qualifies as a stranger's voice? Tongues without interpretation or tongues with interpretation to know His voice from the voice of stranger's? And yet this voice of stranger was gained by climbing up another way and you know it. That is why Jesus spoke in that manner for our discernment.John 10:1Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.....4And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice. 5And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers. 6This parable spake Jesus unto them: but they understood not what things they were which he spake unto them. 7Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep. 8All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them. 9I am the door:So the Holy Spirit as scriptures testifies is inside of us... not to act as a go between us and Jesus lest by His own words, the Holy Spirit is described as a thief which He is not. The Holy Spirit in us is still pointing us to Jesus and not to Himself because there are other spirits in the world thus Jesus is the only Way to God the Father. All the promises of God are yea in Christ Jesus.In all the calling for the Spirit of God in other movements, they have had different manifestations as well as similar ones while those that are similar are calling the event by different teaching, and yet all claim to be done by the One Spirit.There is no other drink of the Spirit. There is no other baptism of the Spirit. There is no continual filling of the Spirit for we are filled, sealed, and thus saved as His as a new creature in Christ having received the Spirit by faith. Matthew 9:17 & 1 Corinthians 12:13And yet ... tongues are gained by it by a rudiment already found in the world and not after Christ Jesus. Many that have broaden the way given in approaching God te Father in worship by including the Holy Spirit to be worshipped do not realize that the Holy Spirit does not seek that but to testify and glorify the Son, thus suffering a thief to break through for the will of the Father is known here: John 5:22-23 & John 13:31-32 & John 17:1-5 & Philippians 2:9-11 but wayward believers continue to put the spotlight on the "Spirit" instead of Christ Jesus, the Son, forgetting the definition of the anti-christ is.. "instead of Christ".Those that have received tongues, have changed their testimony as to when they were saved even though before the supernatural came on them, they had already believed in Jesus before. And yet the same experience is testified by even Joyce Meyers as she interpreted that as an anointing to go into the ministry.Even this christian brother that was skeptical about tongues, and the Holy Spirit moving like that was at a church honouring the Holy Spirit on the Day of Pentecost. When they started to pray, the spirit came on him in this manner: he described it like an invasive force like liquid nitrogen seeping into his skull. Then he found himself confessing "unwillingly" and apologizing " by words not his own" to the Holy Spirit for not believing He operated in this manner.So what is wrong with this picture? 1 Corinthians 14: 32And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. 33For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.Does God honours unwillful confession or a humble one done willingly?If temperance is self control, would a house divided stand if that is how God operates?Another believer spoke of the Spirit interrupting her when she was praying, rationalizing it as the Spirit knew what to pray for her. but scriptures says that God the Father knows before we even ask so it is pointless for this spirit to take over, especially when she knew what she was praying for.And this same spirit has been known to stop edification by the scriptures as well as leading the congregation to wait and see if the Spirit will do anything or if they should go ahead and get into the Word.The believer(s) are suffering his(their) house)s) to be broken through by a thief.To avoid false spirits and false prophets, we go to the Word: Jesus Christ the Lord. John 5:39-40Jesus meant what He had said.. He is the ONLY way to the Father: John 14:6Jesus is the ONLY Mediatoir between God and man, the man Christ Jesus: 1 Timothy 2:5Time to discern the tongues and the means by which wayward believers got them with His help so that they may be found abiding in Him as standing apart from those rudiments found already in the world.
 

Polar

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"So can the voodooists and the wizards testify of similar things. Would God mimick a prayer language that can be found in the world before the Gospel came? And yet how do they receive these tongues? By seeking another spirit to receive... as in a familiar spirit.What was prophesied? 1 Timothy 4:1-2 So millions of Americans are confirming the falling away of the faith by seeking another spirit to receive in order to get tongues, and yet, Paul as led by the Spirit of God was exhorting prophesying over tongues. Go figure." -- Pariah-- You are obviously burdened with the inability to see the forest because of all the trees.Praying and worshiping God in the spirit is "falling away of the faith." Brilliant.Good luck with that. "So can the voodooists and the wizards testify of similar things. -- Pariah-- Silly statement. Satanist state they pray to Satan. According to your standard, that voids the legitimacy of our prayers to God. LOL Smooooooooth.
 

Pariah

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"So can the voodooists and the wizards testify of similar things. Would God mimick a prayer language that can be found in the world before the Gospel came? And yet how do they receive these tongues? By seeking another spirit to receive... as in a familiar spirit.What was prophesied? 1 Timothy 4:1-2 So millions of Americans are confirming the falling away of the faith by seeking another spirit to receive in order to get tongues, and yet, Paul as led by the Spirit of God was exhorting prophesying over tongues. Go figure." -- Pariah-- You are obviously burdened with the inability to see the forest because of all the trees.Praying and worshiping God in the spirit is "falling away of the faith." Brilliant.Good luck with that.
But you are not praying and worshipping God IN the spirit but OUT of the Spirit. That is the testimony everytime you call for the Spirit of God to come. By that testimony, every wayward believer is acting as if God gave them a stone in the first place. That is the whole point of that reference in the scriptures. Once you have received the Holy Spirit, that is all.
"So can the voodooists and the wizards testify of similar things. -- Pariah-- Silly statement. Satanist state they pray to Satan. According to your standard, that voids the legitimacy of our prayers to God. LOL Smooooooooth.
It is not funny when someone comes in and someone declares that he is the Christ, only then would everyone be skeptical, but when a spirit comes in to the worship place and spmeone says that is the Holy Spirit, everybody just drops their guard and go with the flow, and yet we are told to not believe every spirit but test them.So just because a spirit comes into the place, it doesn't make that spirit the Holy Spirit. Indeed, scriptures were given for testing the spirits... as in greater is he that is in you than he that is in the world.It is by blurring that line of discernment given that many wayward believers just go with the flow, and start preaching another spirit to receive cause wolla and behold... tongues comes with this. Thus the prophesied warning of the falling away of the faith is occurring.Consider this: if a spiritualist came into the assembly and called forth his or her spirit guide as a medium would call forth through meditation other spirits... would you be able to tell from them if you place the Holy Spirit out there in the worship place to be worshippedand to be felt? No. So if tongues were gained by seeking another spirit to receive, then God will permit this to occur for believing a lie that there is another baptism of the Holy Spirit that comes with evidence of tongues because believers failed to test the spirits and the tongues they had gained by them.2 Timothy 4: 1I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; 2Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine.3For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; ...2 Thessalonians 2:1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first,1 Timothy 4:1Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 2Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; 2 Thessalonians 2:9Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. 13But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: 14Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle. You serve not the Lord Jesus Christ but something else in His name as it leads away from that which we had heard from the beginning, causing many to forget their first love and their rest in Jesus Christ.2 Timothy 2: 15Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 16But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness. 17And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;Still think tongues are to come without interpretation? Still think that the activity around these tongues as promoting another spirit to receive isn't after the rudiment of the world?If the Holy Spirit is in you and you look to receive another spirit, that is departing from faith and away from the love of the truth, as God will permit a strong delusion to occur for you to believe the lie. You suffered a thief to break through.. and great is the fall of that house...as testified by many "slain in the spirit".To avoid false spirits as well as false prophets, wayward believers need to return to their first love by narrowing the way back to the straight gate.. or else when judgment falls on the House of God, thoise foolish virgins will find themselves left behind to go through the great tribulation.Luke 13:24Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. 25When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are: 26Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets. 27But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity. John 14: 6Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.John 10:1Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber. Either believe Jesus own words or suffer the consequences of missing out of the Marriage Supper of the Lamb.
 

Pariah

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Hello Pariah: I thought you presented your case well for abuses. I think you go to far when you become a cessationist.
Do I know for sure that tongues with intrpretation has ceased? No. I would like to believe God is still sending the Gospel in foreign languages by the gift of tongue to any foreign visitor that would visit an assembly where there would be interpretors for those that hear the regular language spoken in the assembly BUT nowadays, with the scriptures available... and the preaching of another spirit to receive to get these tongues, I would by, His grace, sound the alarm that there is something horribly horribly wrong here.
Evidently thats what you believe and thats fine. I dont believe in cessationism because God has given the gift of tongues to me, I have interpreted as well and Prophecied as well. You will do better to take your cues from those who actually have the giftings than from those who dont and then teach you that you cannot have them. 1cor13 is an old proof text for cessationism and its a poor hermeneutic that attempts to use it. Sorry Pariah, we dont agree on this one.
All I ask is to discern further. There are reports of those churches that spoke in tongues that came with interpretation until they hired a linguist to record the event and interpret the foreign languages only to find that all of the tongues they had was gibberish!! Who did the interpretations in the past?I had received a testimony from a woman that she speaks in tongues and interprets it herself. Others joined hand in hand with her that the scriptures meant for that to be done in that way. NOT! Who can say that she did not know the language? I believe that is why God had interpretation done through another.So I am looking at all of this along with the error of preaching another baptism of the Holy Spirit that comes with evidence of tongues as I wonder if you had not been in errant company when you had received this gift as prevalent that the false teaching and the spirits that come with it has been influencing the churches of every denomenation in one form or another as the "holy laughter" movement was ecumenical in nature as reported by the 700 Club in 1994.
I know of good men, good theologians that are cessationist and we frankly part company (agree to disagree) on the subject.
Again, I would like to believe tongues with interpretation has been continuing, but I am not seeing it. With the scriptures present and all manifestations of the Spirit is done to profit the body withal... what need be of tongues?
You use some vernacular that is interesting. Talking about "another" kind of baptism of the spirit. Is this a veiled way of saying that those who speak in tongues do not have the Holy Spirit but "another" spirit? Are you accusing them of demon possession because they speak in tongues?
All you have to do is listen or read the posts from others. There is a plain teaching of calling "believers" to seek another baptism of the Holy Spirit that comes with evidence of tongues when there is only one baptism of the Spirit. And yes, there are tongues gained in the world for seeking another spirit to receive... which they have not received as in they have to keep on receiving this other spirit: a rudiment of the world and not after Christ.
Pariah this website has so many loonies on here now, youve got every kind of mis-fit doctrine being promoted as 'meat' of the word...and Ive seen you stand your ground against it, but to go this far against Tongues is not biblical exegesis but a kind of personal dismissal opinioned by proof text.
My stand against tongues goes so far as to weed out a specific tongue.. one that comes without interpretation and one claiming they have tongues with interpretation by seeking another spirit to receive as in seeking after the Holy Spirit to come again and fall on them.
Lastly Pariah, you might want to look again at 1cor14. Youre reading into Paul a dismissal of tongues that is not in the text.
I know at the end he said not to forbid speaking in tongues, but all throughout the chapter, he was downplaying tongues by comparing it by itself with the gift of prophesy. From the beginning of the chapter, Paul led by the Spirit of God was exhorting the assembly to seek above all spiritual gifts.. all of them... the gift of prophesy.. and then dove into verse tow by explaining in comparison to tongues, why prophesy is the one to seek, and yet strangely, this same Holy Spirit in Paul is dishing out tongues and without interpretation to such a large degree that one has to wonder if God is a hypocrit, but we know He is not. Thus the call to discern.
I dont have to be a tongue talker to see that you are eisogeting the text with a cessationist bent.
And I do not need to be a tongue talker to see that God would not manifest tongues if there are tongues not of Him running amok in the churches.If you truly have tongues and prophesy, what did God say to you or through you when you reflect back on how some were in error in your church in the abuse of these gifts? If Jesus taught us not to ignore a brother caught in a trespass, but to correct him, then how can God allow error and dishonourable practises to continue without sending word for correction?
Look. vs 1 and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy...ok so I should desire tongues, but even more edifying is prophecy.So Pariah do you prophecy? Do you have something from the Spirit of God to declare to the church? Im not talking about a bible reading or quoting. Prophecy is a forth-telling or a foretelling. Bible quoting is not the same thing? So....do you seek to obey the first verse?
What the Lord has revealed unto me has already been confirmed in His Word. So why speak of dreams that turned out to be prophetic in coming true of the Lord showing me things to come when the redeeming of the time is about correcting and reproving by the Word of God? To speak of myself and how prophetic dreams from when I was a tot to the present would only exalt me. I must decrease so that He may increase. Keeping the faith is the good fight.Example of a revelation from the Lord to me : He sent out two plumblines to see whom will depart from faith and resort to their own power and/or chase after other gods. In 1994, Promise Keepers and the holy laughter movement did just that. Why did it happen? From the leaven of the Pharisees of making a commitment to follow Christ for the assurances of salvation which led to the Promise Keepers program... and from the Nicene Creed and unscriptural hymnals placing the Holy Spirit to be worshipped which led to the "Holy Laughter" movement.. all of this shows how a small leaven.. leavens into a whoe lump.
look at vs 5 I would that ye all spake with tongues but rather that ye prophesied...ok so Paul would have us speak in tongues..but to him its better to prophecy. Again no forbidding of Tongues, so removal of them or dismissing them altogether is not Pauls words, but your own.
Again, for all the manifestation of the Spirit and no correction given in all that time towards the abuses of tongues and the obvious false teaching causing the falling away of the faith, where are the tongues speakers of God then, protesting this so that their tongues are not confused with the witness of tongues in the world? How come only non tongue speakers are gutsy enough to speak against tongues that comes without interpretation? Do you yet see why some would believe that tongues has ceased so that they do not get confused with tongues of the world.. especially when the scriptures are present?
look again at vs 13 Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret Pariah, you know what this means? It means that if God gives me tongues I should pray for another gift which is to interpret them in a public assembly. So, do you still seek to forbid me from seeking Tongues when its obvious I can seek for them, and I should also seek to edify the congregation with interpretation of tongues?
Taking Paul's words about "wishing" all could speak in tongues is countering the exhortation given by the Spirit. That whole chapter is clear.. seek prophesy over all spiritual gifts.. even miracles and healings and etc. and etc. Paul's address today in downplaying tongues to seek the gift of prophesy is still being ignored.
Again, there is no dismissal of tongues, but a "way in which tongues can edify the public congregation". So, we should obey the scripture and do so.Notice, that prayer for "interpretation" leads to an assumption. That a supernatural act was needed to intelligently understand the message of God. It wouldnt do to simply find "an interpreter" to Pauls language, but to pray that the Spirit would gift the speaker or someone else with the ability to interpret the tongue. Interesting huh?
That is reading too much into it. 1 Corinthians 12:7-11 designate the interpretation of tongues to another. That is the best way to avoid someone that knows another langauge and interprets it to be misleading and vainglorious.
If you can still continue..look at this text. vs 18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all Do you think Paul is saying that tongues are a useless gift because Paul had the revelation of the New Testament, Why would Paul bother with tongues when according to your theory, the new testament replaces the tongue gift? Its Kinda obvious, Paul didnt think that way and neither should we. Paul spoke in tongues more than those who otherwise boasted on their gift. Yet his revelations of Jesus Christ didnt hamper his desire to pray in tongues either in private or public.
And yet in the church, Paul would rather speak five words than ten thousand in an unknown tongue that needed interpretation. Again, Paul was downplaying tongues as a gift and clarified what that tongue he was speaking was in verse 21. No way was Paul saying he used tongues as a private prayer thing between himself and God outside the church. Paul had plenty of time to teach that, but by no means did he said so and what he did share, repoves it from using it as a prayer language as Matthew 6 states there is no need for it for Goid the Father already knows before you even ask.
What I do see is the interpretation youve placed upon 1cor13 to say that tongues have ceased couldnt be more erroneous. There is no necessity of Paul taking up essentially 3 chapters of the new testament to discuss spiritual gifts if they are gone by the time the Apostles have all died by 90AD.
A poster had commented about not reading anywhere the cessation of tongues. I posted that in the face of the abuse and false teachings and the availability of the Bible to say that for the application of tongues given by God in this format, I can see why the Biblical tongues have ceased.Are there not believers being abused for not speaking in tongues? Are there not condemnation flying around that of they do not speak in tongues, they do not have the Holy Spirit and thus they are not saved? Are not the false teaching of another baptism of the Holy Spirit that comes with evidence of tongues going hand in hand with this condemnation? Are there not judgment given to non-Pentecostal and non-Charismatic churches that if they do not jump through their hoops, and speak in tongues, then they are a dead church? And yet we have life by coming to Jesus. And yet those that seek after the Holy Spirit, hunger for more of God whereas those that do not follow the stranger's voice remain resting In jesus where they hunger nor thirst no more as promised.
So whatever read-in your doing to push out tongues or prophecy because we have the bible is counter productive. Remember, its the bible thats teaching us we are to seek spiritual gifts, its not "some extraneous information" elsewhere that takes us toward spiritual giftings, but the canon of scripture itself that validates its being sought, obtained and practiced in orderly edifying acts.
I have to seriously doubt your gift of tongue, brother, if you are using it privately.True or false.. that manifestation of the Spirit is to profit the body withal?True or false.. divers kinds of tongues is followed by the manifestation of the interpretation of those tongues by another.True or false... if all spoke in tongues and someone comes in and say.. are ye all mad and that same someone comes in on you praying privately in tongues, would he not think the same thing? If we are to be witnesses, then privately as well as publicly, we shall be by His grace.True or false... Jesus gave a parable of a steward burying a talent and frowned on it really bad. Would God do the same thing by having those divers kinds of tongues buried without interpretation as if not bearing any interests in a bank as in the assembly? God's own words cannot be used against Him to make Him a hypocrit. We have enough mockers out there doing that already and yet they touch this not. Why? True or false... God calls us to stand apart from the world so why is it that God would mimick a prayer language already in the world if we are to stand apart from the world? It is not listed at all as a manifestation of the Spirit. Nadda. Not at all.True or false.. as God will deliver and has delivered those from the occult and speaking gibberishness, you really believe He would mimick the same kind of tongues for prayer language causing doubt to those wondering if they truly have been delivered?Sorry, brother, but you need to take that prayer language to the Lord for discernment as well as your tongues that supposedly came with interpretation. God is not the author of confusion but tongues as a prayer language is which leads me to circumspect the other uses of your tongues and the means by which you had received them.Voicing extreme concern for you, brother. Please take it to Jesus in prayer... normal every day language of yours.