Pariah,Point one: Volume does not = value.Like many people here, the majority of scriptures you refer to having nothing to do with the topic at hand.Sometimes less IS more. Ponder.Point two:You possess a complete inability to listen. The Holy Spirit dwells inside of you. You allowing that Holy Spirit to speak through you on your behalf in praise is not a "falling away of the faith" or sharing a commonality with 'voodooists and wizards.'Nothing you have said refutes that fact.
The Necessity Of Tongues As A Prayer Language
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Pariah: Thanks for the lengthy reply, I dont have time now to expand upon your replies but I want to hit two points.1. The oneness pentacostals are the heretical bunch that require speaking in tongues to prove salvation and to prove you are indwelt by the Holy Spirit. Let me just say as theologically as I can...Hogwash. They are out to lunch and dont give that doctrine the time of day, also please dont even consider that the mainline Charismatics or pentacostals hold that foolish doctrine. If some do, then its biblical ignorance gone malignant and they dont speak for the majority of Pentas and charismatics.2. After reading your replies, you really did not address my statements in a direct way, you simply voiced some conclusions you hold or some observations youve made or some kind of opinion you have. Thats fine, but its not proof by any means to disuade someone from interpreting the texts and acting upon them exactly as I have done....and receive the gifts that were sought. You may not believe it, but that is no proof against what God has done. Saying it is not God or insinuating it is not God is a dangerous presumption on you part. You may address my doctrine and run it through your filters all you want and say what you want. God deals with people in many different ways, how God speaks in tongues through me and what interpretations Ive given are not "confusion" or "error" or "another spirit"...or "another baptism" as you were want to suggest. The reason why you cannot dismiss them is A) youve not proven that Tongues are not given to individuals today, with interpretation.
you were not present to hear or discern what was done or said. In short, youre not offering me anything but assumptions...and you of all people, Pariah, seem to be very sure about what you say about anything. Confidence in holding a doctrinal point must not be confused with assumptions about circumstances you have no knowledge of. Simply put, you ruin your arguments when you jump off into presumption about people. Pariah, you make personal assumptions about me, they are not insulting or mean spirited, but they do point you off in the wrong direction and what follows is corrections or admonitions that do not speak directly to me even though you seem to think so. Let your posts contain some questions about me, if you want to address me personally. Josiahdefender
Where were you when Jesus gave the Sermon on the Mount?
Or... your judgment fell back on you as possessing the inability to listen.
Posted to meant to give you pause, brother, so you would take a step back and take what I have shown as an alarm to the Lord in prayer.Pariah: Thanks for the lengthy reply, I dont have time now to expand upon your replies but I want to hit two points.1. The oneness pentacostals are the heretical bunch that require speaking in tongues to prove salvation and to prove you are indwelt by the Holy Spirit. Let me just say as theologically as I can...Hogwash. They are out to lunch and dont give that doctrine the time of day, also please dont even consider that the mainline Charismatics or pentacostals hold that foolish doctrine. If some do, then its biblical ignorance gone malignant and they dont speak for the majority of Pentas and charismatics.2. After reading your replies, you really did not address my statements in a direct way, you simply voiced some conclusions you hold or some observations youve made or some kind of opinion you have. Thats fine, but its not proof by any means to disuade someone from interpreting the texts and acting upon them exactly as I have done....and receive the gifts that were sought. You may not believe it, but that is no proof against what God has done. Saying it is not God or insinuating it is not God is a dangerous presumption on you part. You may address my doctrine and run it through your filters all you want and say what you want. God deals with people in many different ways, how God speaks in tongues through me and what interpretations Ive given are not "confusion" or "error" or "another spirit"...or "another baptism" as you were want to suggest. The reason why you cannot dismiss them is A) youve not proven that Tongues are not given to individuals today, with interpretation.you were not present to hear or discern what was done or said. In short, youre not offering me anything but assumptions...and you of all people, Pariah, seem to be very sure about what you say about anything. Confidence in holding a doctrinal point must not be confused with assumptions about circumstances you have no knowledge of. Simply put, you ruin your arguments when you jump off into presumption about people. Pariah, you make personal assumptions about me, they are not insulting or mean spirited, but they do point you off in the wrong direction and what follows is corrections or admonitions that do not speak directly to me even though you seem to think so. Let your posts contain some questions about me, if you want to address me personally. Josiahdefender
Then let us address what Jesus said about the description of a thief.John 10:7Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep. 8All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them. 9I am the door:The Holy Spirit is in us and not inbetween us. Jesus is the ONLY Mediator between us and God. His Word literally means that.1 Timothy 2:5For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;This erroneous belief that the Holy Spirit makes direct interecessions for us is due to bad translations in the other Bibles.Romans 8:26In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groans that words cannot express. 27And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints in accordance with God's will. New International VersionTake note of the bad grammar above in verse 27. How can the "he" which is a third Person that is seperate from us in searching our hearts and seperate from the Spirit to know the mind of the Spirit, be the "Spirit" of what the "he" of the King James Bible is written in keeping the pronoun of the he in regards to the third Person as apart from us and apart from the Spirit?Romans 8:26Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. 27And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.This is in keeping with the truth of the scriptures in 1 Timothy 2:5 which is also found in NIV as the same.Now read the King James Bible verses above altogether. How can the Holy Spirit make intercessions for us without uttering any sound at all? This is entirely different from the NIV's implication of sounds being uttered but no words can express. We read on in the King James Bible and find what appears to be an error. The Holy Spirit addressed as an "itself" while making intercessions for us? And yet He is not since no sound is being uttered. Then we read about how the Mediator.. that's Jesus.. Who searches our hearts and knows the mind of the Spirit for He intercedes for the saints according to the will of God as in being the only Mediator between God and man. The fact that the scriptures mention this in Romans 8:34 both in NIV and KJV, shows that the NIV got the translations wrong.In other words, the Holy Spirit, by fulfilling the role of the Comforter by dwelling in us and abiding in us forever so that Jesus, the Mediator can search our hearts and knows the mind of the Spirit can fulfill His role. This is actually the correct meaning of "itself" as the Holy Spirit is the means as far as the "it" is concern, but still regarded as a Person as in "self" is concern. So the Holy Spirit makes intercession without sounds by being in us whereas Christ Whom knows the mind of the Spirit as well as searching our hearts.. He intercedes for us in according to the will of God fro being the only Mediator between God and man... specifying the man Christ Jesus and not the Spirit of Christ.That is why this scripture can be true for all believers.Matthew 6: 5And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. 6But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly. 7But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking. 8Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him. Before you even ask, the Father knows. So what point does it serve God for the "Holy Spirit" to manifest prayer language that is already found in the world? None. How can those He calls out of the occult be witnesses that they are no longer in it if prayer language is also found in christianity? And yet God would calls us to stand apart from the world?So here we are misusing what Paul was trying to say about tongues by itself as a gift to seek over his exhorting for believers into seeking the gift of prophesy in comparison to tongues by itself as if tongues can be used by itself when plainly he goes on to emphasize how it should not be... for it is unfruitful.. even to himself as there is a need for understanding... and thus a necessity for the speaker to pray that somebody should interpret.Below is Paul addressing all manifestations of the Spirit as given to profit the body withal.. as in the assembly.1 Corinthians 12:4Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord. 6And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all. 7But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. 8For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; 9To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; 10To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: No prayer language.11But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will. 12For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. [b]13For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, [/b]whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. [/b]These scriptures are given for instructions as well as for discernment.The Holy Spirit would not manifest tongues privately for a prayer language since all manifestations of the Spirit are to profit the body withal. Tongues as defined is to be followed by the interpretation of those tongues.It is because of errant translations that believers are misled into not discerning the tongues they had received for the Holy Spirit cannot fulfill the description of a thief as Jesus is the only Mediator between God and man, thus the necessity for tongues to be used as a prayer language is not of the Lord. Period.2 Timothy 2:15Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 16But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness. 17And their word will eat as doth a canker:As tongues that come without interpretation is a stranger's voice and prayer language is already found in the world:1 John 4: 4Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. 5They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them. 6We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error. That is why all believers are not to believe every spirit, but test them.1 John 4:1Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. 2Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: 3And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.And since tongues are coming by another spirit falling on believers when they already have the Holy Spirit in them as promised for coming to and believing in Jesus, they speak by the spirit of error of another baptism of the Holy Spirit that comes with evidence of tongues without testing that supernatural experience as not of the Lord by the scriptures. They bring these spirits and their tongues with them wherever they g
nly recently, churches are becoming aware and catching new agers bringing their practises into the churches, but the scriptures warned that these spirits don't need any help coming into the assembly, therefore we are to test the spirits and not be paranoid about who in the assembly is bringing them there. Some believers are just picking up things to apply and are not discerning them either. ( a pastor wanted to paint a room blue in the back.. seperate from the main assembly area to help those meditate.. to shut out all sound and thoughts.. to cause the Spirit to come for those unable to experience anything. He is no longer a pastor. )So this is why I am asking you to take this matter to the Lord in prayer for wisdom and discernment. Do not allow pride that has snared some believers into holding unto fables, have you keeping onto tongues without seeing how by the scriptures, there is no need for tongues as a prayer language and certainly isn't listed as a manifestation of the Spirit for tongues to serve as a stand alone gift which Paul was trying to convey of tongues by itself so believers would seek prophesy over ALL spiritual gifts. So the tongues being manifested privately tells me that something is off.... way off. What spirit is coming inbetween you and Jesus for prayer?May God cause the increase and set you free from what is clearly to me is a snare of the devil.Pariah: Heres how it works.. You need to offer an alternative interpretation of the text in 1 cor 14, I offered one, I didnt read any alternative explaining any errors in my interpretation of that text. So, I realize you dont believe in tongues, but your unbelief is no grounds for others to imitate. Since the bible is clear on seeking gifts, its clear on tongues, interpretation, prophecy etc that such gifts should be sought and obtained, your dismissal of them is holding no weight. Your logic or connection that youre drawing from "the Spirit interceeding" in rom 8, has no weight on the existence of tongues or the usage of them privately. Think for a moment Pariah, If God gifts you to pray in a supernatural way, and that supernatural manifestion can be either public or private, how it is that all tongues must be public? You see this is why your arguments fail. You dont get to the point. You say all tongues if done, must be public. But you have no scriptural mandate requiring that. You see, youre trying to force the imperitive upon me and others when no imperitive from the scripture is given. If thats not a useful tactic then you try cessationism, which is the easiest to prove errant because the very scripture that is given to the Church to instruct it on 'charisma' tells us to seek spiritual gifts, tongues included. Again, quoting verses that regulate the operation of tongues in public for the edification of the Church, doesnt prove they always must be public, but that in public God requires orderly usage. Your arguments simply do not stand up to simple thought. Listen Pariah, when children assemble in a class room, to keep order the teacher requires the student to raise their hand to ask a question. This is done in a public assembly so that order is maintained. But does that forbid the child from asking any questions unless they are in public or their hand raised? No, its ridiculous. In this same way Pariah, your handling of the scripture text doesnt prove your assertions. You are saying that all tongues if done at all must be public and interpreted. Im saying to you, prove from scripture that such an imperitive exists. You say then that Tongues are not necessary, I say that Paul was instructed by the Holy Spirit on how Tongues are to be sought, obtained and then used properly. So God has a reason for tongues and a reason for them interpreted and He has not changed his mind. Let me ask you a question, You dont need to answer me on the website, but ask yourself "Pariah, why do you want to remove tongues from the scriptures? Why do you want to remove seeking the gifts by saying they are not operational any more? Clearly you have not proven the bible teaches that, you have not proven that tongues are no longer to be used privately or publically. I didnt say, you dont have an opinion about them, but that opinion is not biblical proof. Whats the motivation behind teaching directly against spiritual gifts when the scriptures teach counter to your assertions? We are going in circles here, so you have your conclusions and I have mine. You are free not to speak in tongues thats your job, and for me, the scripture tells me to pray always, to edify the saints and to edify myself. I will do that.JosiahdefenderPariah: Please allow me to speak candidly here. Its my impression.Someone has done you wrong about the gifts or tongues or the baptism of the Spirit and you have knee jerked the opposite directionand now you have all this formulation of thought against tongues, and some fearfulness of getting a false baptism=new age spirit and you consider it proof that youve got a bad spirit if you pray in tongues. Pariah, seriously, I dont know what the issue is behind the tongue argument, but you should not formulate doctrine based upon "abuses or dislikes you have personally". Josiahdefender
"Where were you when Jesus gave the Sermon on the Mount?" -- Pariah-- Pariah, if Jesus spoke at the Sermon on the Mount like you type here, He'd still be sitting there talking.
"Or... your judgment fell back on you as possessing the inability to listen." -- Pariah-- Ah yes, the old "I know you are but what am I" argument. Very moving. Josiahdefender is spot on.Volume does not =value.He has addressed the scripture barrage you continue to throw up and given short concise - and thusfar irrefuted - answers.Return the faver.
With all due respect, The Bible (with God's wisdom) in its entirety has infinity wisdom. God is not found in a single scripture, a book (ex: Genesis, Matthew), but rather the whole entire bible. Christ is found in the volume of the bible. (Psalm 40:7, Hebrews 10:7)Paul clearly says that some (not ALL) has the gift of tongues. (foreign languages / not your home language) (I Corinthians 12:28,29,30) And lastly, no where in the bible says to edify yourself only... Paul says to edify the Body of Christ. And tongues are not required. We are to spread God's Words. If no one understand your tongue, then it is useless.
Jordan: I appreciate you chiming in as well. Pariah cannot prove her assertions, she can only say "tongues are not for today" and then string some texts together that supposedly prove her point. But the problem lay in the fact that she cannot bring any scripture text to remove my clear assertions from the biblical text that Spiritual gifts are to be sought, they are to be believed upon and obtained by faith and practiced in accordance with biblical orderliness. So, while you share her opinion, you offer nothing concrete either. I hope that those who desire spiritual gifts will read the weak and insufficient arguments of you both so that they might find freedom to edify the Church with tongues and interpretation and that they might receive the gift of tongues to pray in private as well. I will ask though, what scripture text are you using to validate that tongues must be in public only and that tongues in private are not edifying or that personal edification is rejected by Paul? I promise to read the texts in context and respond. But I do ask you actually answer my questions directly. Josiahdefender
I just did... Tongues are the lowest level of the gift of God... only some have that gift. (I Corinthians 12:28,29,30) And no where did I say tongues aren't for today. Since I am speaking English, English is clearly a tongue.What does private edify? The Body? NO! Yourself? Yes! Does speaking in a tongue that no one understands what you are saying edify the Body? NO! But you need two or three interpreters... if you don't have that, this whole mess causes confusion to the Body and God is not happy about having confusion to the Body. I have been to a Pentecostal Church before, and I know what they teach me and God tells me to get out.
why is it those who do not have the gift of speaking in tongues have such trouble with those who do? I guess it is because of the false doctrine of it being a sign of having the Holy Spirit.Please this is not hard to understand, all gifts are still alive and well today, and to argue about this is really going against the power of the Holy Spirit._______________________1 Corinthians 14For one who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God; for no one understands, but in his spirit he speaks mysteries.One who speaks in a tongue edifies himself; but one who prophesies edifies the church. For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful. What is the outcome then? I will pray with the spirit and I will pray with the mind also; I will sing with the spirit and I will sing with the mind also. _________________________people with this gift, such as myself can pray with this spirit language and at the same time I can pray with my mind, my own language, I can also sing praises in tongues and know at times what the spirit is praying.This really is nothing to disagree about. Satan tries to divide Christian by trying to lie to us and tell you this beautiful spirit language is not true.God bless
I appreciate my detractors causing me to look again at the foundation of my beliefs and why I still engage them and practice them. As i was Reading 1 Cor 14 again, I remembered why I was liberated to follow the practice of Paul and the early believers, because I believe what God's word has to say to me about tongues, gifts and edifying the Church. It also reminds me that the justifications that Pariah, Christina and Jordan use to dismiss the gift of tongues can also be used to invalidate and dismiss the salvation of God in Christ..God forbid. But its true, think for a moment, tongues abused, salvation abused, tongues out of order, God's people out of order, scriptures twisted to pervert tongues, scriptures twisted to pervert salvation. In a very real way, I could say "Salvation is not for today, because of so much abuse, disorderliness and lack of biblical imitation. The craziest part is....should we not seek for salvation because some pervert it? Should we not seek for tongues because some misuse or miss edifying the body of Christ altogether? I think the obvious answer is, we dont turn away from salvation any moreso those lesser gifts which God grace gifts us with. But this obvious lesson in seeking Christ has not registered in these three. The above quote, I had to reintroduce it because its so outlandish you wonder that Pariah has no proportion in her thinking? Tongues is not a fable, its biblical and the bible she is so happy to copy paste, also exhorts me to vs 12 "ye may excel to the edifying of the church." Im to excel in building up the Church...but how? To excel in Spiritual gifts being exercised thats how. The whole of Pauls lesson in the chapter deals with "how to orderly edify (build up) the Church" with the operation of Spiritual gifts. We know this by the exhortation to prophecy, to foretell and forthtell the word of God to the congregation. Jordan actually said, and Im waiting for an answer.. the bible doesnt say anywhere to edify yourself only. Well..what does this text say?1Co 14:4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; ....So, clearly the bible does say that tongues will edify ones self. We might note clearly that Paul wanted the Corinthians to do more than edify themselves but to edify each other when the come together. Simply put, edify yourself and in public edify one another. Paul in a very clever way was saying that, "you excel in edifying yourselves, but instead of the gift of God being only personal edification, seek God that you might use that same gift to edify in the public assembly". So Paul wants to clear away the "restrictive usage of tongues" in private and expand it in an orderly fashion so that God is glorified in its orderly public usage in conjuction with interpretation. But, alas, I have three folks who have entirely reversed this scenario and develope interpretations and conclusions that do not imitate the godly faith that is expressed in 1 Cor 14. Paul..."use your faith to edify with tongues and interpretation, and even better prophecy"...Pariah, Christina..."Tongues are not for today and if you speak in them, you are confused and creating problems in the body of Christ". Again...Paul "Seek Spiritual gifts and seek to superabound (excel) in building up the Church with those Charismatic giftings" Pariah, Christina..."Seek to avoid spiritual gifts, stay away from tongues, pray in english alone, the bible is enough". Lastly..Pariah said.."If I pray in tongues privately something is wrong way off...and that some spirit is coming between Christ and I if I am praying in tongues". So, Pariah is either rashly presuming on me, or she is trying to prophecy over me...and clearly if she is..falsely. Please...those of you who are reading this...which one is biblical? Pauls exhortation as I have given it... or, Pariah, Jordan and Christina telling you, you cant have it, or, you shouldnt want it, or if you do speak in tongues you might have another 'spirit' and should be worried about it? I welcome my detractors to explain their decisions to teach others the very opposite of the apostle Paul.Josiahdefender
Repeating again:1 Corinthians 12:7But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.8For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; 9To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; 10To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: 11But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will. 12For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.That is how God works as He stand apart from the world's tongues that comes without interpretation, so will the believers as He divide the gifts severally as He wills to profit the body of Christ withal.
Pariah: If this is all that you can finally say, then shall I interpret this as a retraction of your previous statements? Ive never made a case for any "worlds tongues", Ive only made a case for biblical tongues both private and public. Josiahdefender
By making a case for private tongues, and you did so by ignoring the intent of Paul singling out tongues by itself as why it is not a gift to seek so as to favor prophesy over tongues as well as all other spiritual gifts, you have made a case for world's tongues.Voodooists and wizards that seek out familiar spirits are known to do such prayer language privately by practise.False spirits as well as false prophets are ecumenical in nature as in gathering grapes of thorns and figs of thistles.For all the bravado in the past of Pentecostals and charismatics condemning catholics to hell due to the teaching of catholicism, they waffle when confronted with the fact that there are charismatic catholic churches. Some will attest to receiving tongues the same way you did; some will attest in receiving tongues in other ways, and yet from all of this "supposed" moving of the "Spirit", not one word from the Lord in reproving the dead works of catholicism, and yet Jesus did not teach to ignore a brother in a trespass nor did Stephen and Ananias got away with deception. When the scriptures are present, we are to test the spirits as well as the tongues and other manifestations they bring on a believer. To just go with the flow is not testing the spirits. Churches have been doing that and with worldly tongues everywhere, where are the true tongues with interpretation reproving them? When "holy laughter" was doing its movement across all the denomenations as reported by the 700 Club, this goes to show how the churches are not watching as they allow themselves to be seduced by false spirits.It's time to wake up and put away tongues without interpretation. If anyone has true tongues, I guarantee you that an interpretation would have gone out long ago like in 1994 to reprove the "holy laughter" movement and to declare that it was one of the plumbline God permitted to see whom will depart from faith and chase after other gods. The other plumbline God permitted was to see whom will depart from faith and resort to their own power which is what the Promise Keepers' program did. Those that heed the Lord can also look back to the small leaven of the Pharisees in how the "commitment to follow Christ has led to the Promise Keepers' program just as much as Nicene creed, (also done in ecumenical format as in making an agreement with the RCC) has produced unscriptural hymnals singling out the Holy Spirit in the worship place when by the Word, the Holy Spirit does not seek that but to lead believers to honour the Son and thereby the Father by testifying of the Son to glorify the Son and thereby the Father. ( John 5:22-23 John 13:31-32 John 17:1-5 Philippians 2:9-11 John 16:13-14 John 15:26-27So as flamboyant as holy laughter movement was and still is, so are tongues without interpretation. And since tongues speakers are insisting that tongues can be used privately when His Words plainly does not list tongues as a manifestation to be used privately as in for prayer language since it is to be followed by interpretation as tongues are foreign languages, then we can see why Paul was singling tongues out all by itself in its value by itself as unfruitful and without understanding... even to the speaker by itself, and THAT was why Paul was exhorting prophesy over tongues as the gift to seek for Paul repeatedly emphasized why interpretation must come with those tongues for it is the same tongue in verse 2 that is a foreign language of men throughout the chapter.So as the spirits are to be tested, so are the tongues that they bring are to be tested. No interpretation is a clanging symbol and a noisey gong and that is not God showing love for us, but burying the "talent" in the ground which He would never do for Jesus taught against that, therefore that tongue is circumspect as a stranger's voice.The Lord is calling you to stand apart from the world as a witness of Him, both privately and publicly.
I believe in a prayer and Paul calls it praying in the Spirit...Paul prayed in tongues more than all..but not in the church."When the day of Pentecost came, they were all together in one place. Suddenly a sound like the blowing of a violent wind came from heaven and filled the whole house where they were sitting. They saw what seemed to be tongues of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them. All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them." (Acts 2:1-4) All of the Scriptural evidence is consistent with the view that all 120 believers spoke in tongues on the day of Pentecost. Who were the 120 believers talking to when they spoke in tongues? Notice that they were all together in one place, then they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and they all began speaking in tongues. Since they were all speaking in foreign languages, they could not have understood each other. Therefore, they were not talking to one another, but notice that there was no-one else around at this point for them to be talking to. They were talking to God and praising Him in tongues in the Holy Spirit, which is one of the primary purposes for tongues: "If you are praising God with your spirit, how can one who finds himself among those who do not understand say "Amen" to your thanksgiving, since he does not know what you are saying?" (1 Corinthians 14:16) At Pentecost the disciples were talking to God in the Holy Spirit. They were praying in the Spirit.
Why so complicated. the gift of tongues is given to some but it is not necessary for your salvation or anything else, if you have that gift great, but do not be deceived , for the enemy has penetrated the church and has corrupted so much of our Lords work, the teaching of tongues in church has being placed on a pedestal way higher then it deserves. Just because you babble doesent mean its tongues, there are ,many who think they are praying in tongues but are doing nothing more than babbling, just because something feels good or sounds good does not necessarily mean it is from God, be careful with what you receive to be from God, the enemy has his counterfit and it can be hard to differentiate.in His love
I believe in prayer too and I also believe that everytime someone prays, they are doing so IN the Spirit. They do not have to call for the Holy Spirit thus being a false witness that they do not have the Holy Spirit, thus giving the appearance that they are not new wineskin unable to hold the new wine as in not saved... thus praying OUT of the Spirit.As much as tongue speakers like to read inbetween the lines in Aacts, and continue to deny that prayer language was already in the world before the Gospel came, as well as ignore what kind of tongues are being manifested as listed in 1 Corinthians 12:7-11, which does not have tongues as a stand alone gift meant for prayer language....You are ignoring the when of how others came to hear them speak in their language. It did not clarify that so you cannot say that this "one place" was just in the building as passerbys were hearing the wonderful works of God in foreign languages.Biblical tongues are to be interpreted and that is what Paul was saying when exhorting prophesy over tongues as a singular gift to seek over ALL spiritual gifts... for tongues is not a stand alone gift. Read that whole chapter. May God cause the increase to help you see that for we are to be witnesses of Jesus to stand apart from the world.
"I have been to a Pentecostal Church before, and I know what they teach me and God tells me to get out." - Jordan-- That statement would be comical if it wasn't so very sad. You stated in other threads you went to three whole churches and from that experience you decided that all organized churchces are bad and "self-education" with God is better. You believe(d) it enough to recommend that a new Christian visiting this board avoid church altogether. You are stating that millions of people in Penticostal churches are wrong because God "told you to get out."The same churches that I have seen do mighty things by and for and THROUGH Jesus.A justified question is this:If you were in a position where you were still seeking and trying to find a church (likely early in your walk) when God told you to "get out," how do you even know that was God talking to you?You know for sure it was God's voice? You know for sure it was Gods presence? Really? Good for you!So then tell me...How can you feel justified to criticize or negate people who state with at least as much certainty and fulfillment that when they pray in the spirit they feel God's presence, direction and blessing?Scripture? Paul wrote letters to the CHURCHES of Ephasus, Corinth, Thessalonia, etc. These were bodies of worshipers joined together in prayer, growth, and mission. Why couldn't I use that as 'proof' to you that the path you have chosen, self-study via the Word and the Internet, is wrong?And as a sidebar, I can name three churches in the town I live in right now that claim to be Christian or God-based, but a simple cursory glance on what they stand on shows me that they endanger the eternal salvation of all that go there.But there are several churches that develop Christians in their walk with God, challenge them, teach them, support them, and help them to be what God intended them to be.Your three bad experiences were enough for you to not only walk away from ALL churches, but to encourage others to do the same.I do not see how you can reconcile that. 1 Corinthians 14:2 (KJV)"For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries."-- The "he" Paul is talking about is a Christian, striving to know God. No one here has yet shown how praying in the spirit with God, interspersed with regular native tongue prayer....is detrimental to your walk with Jesus.Especially when I, someone who does that, as well as millions of others, can attest to what a blessing this is to my relationship with Jesus.
Then when did Paul pray? He prayed more than all...except not in the church.Also, who interpreted at the day of Pentecost...the lost? Can someone without the Holy Spirit interprete?Who interpreted in Acts 10 or 19?
Setfree your take is just speculation and you seeing what you want ...As for the rest of this .... there is no evidence anywhere anyone ever spoke babble .... There is no Unknown tongue in scripture there is prayer ...there is no babbling prayer language ..God understands all languages because he reads our heart no babble or tongues makes one closer to God or further from him. he's reading your heart not your words .... The gifts of 1 cor. was to speak and understand foreign language to preach the gospel around the world ...It had nothing to do with today's tongues ... Any one who believes they are more filled with Gods spirit because they speak babel is fooling themselves. When God poured out his spirit on Pentecost day it had nothing to do with babel they were given the full knowledge of God so they could start the church...remember when the apostles didn't understand Christs words when he was alive ... After Pentecost they understood because they were given the knowledge, this knowledge was what they prophesied.. the Word of God the good News of Jesus Christ in all natural human languages. We have it in the form of the Bible these people did not ... Speaking Babel was never a gift ... speaking foreign language of men was the gift .... and if you didn't speak the language of those you were preaching to how were they to understand the good news that's why you were told to have an interpreter ... Paul uses edify self in a negative context in 1 cor. told them not to do this ...Do what preach in a language the people could not understand as it only made one self feel good but it does nothing for the church ... Another words if someone gives a great speech in Arabic they may pat themselves on the back(feel edified) ..but what did it do for you what did it do for God.....Nothing
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