Who Will Go To Hell?

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Kadu 2

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May 31, 2009
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Hello Everyone,First time poster, I am interested in your views in some area's of Christianity. I like the debate because I believe I will get some lively responses.Now lets say a man has committed some very bad crimes against god's commandments.eg. Murdered a manNow as say he realized what he did was wrong and found the truth in Christ. Turned his life around. Asked for forgiveness and lived his life doing the work of Jesus.If he was truly remorseful and tried his best to sin no more. He will most likely go to heaven.Now for the second part.A man from Tibet is a devout Buddhist and his whole life has done his best to avoid sin (or whatever he believes to be impure things) he does not ask Jesus for forgiveness but anytime he has a negative thought or does something wrong, he apologizes with all his heart to the universe and every living being it it.Now who do you believe/think is more likely to go to heaven and if you believe the man who has asked for forgiveness from Jesus, do you think it is fair? and will the Buddhist go to heaven.
 

HammerStone

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The answer to that is simple:
John 14:6Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
However, we know from Scripture:
II Peter 3:9The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
Knowing, therefore, that our Lord is just, that Buddhist monk will have his shot whether it be in this earth age or in the coming millennium. This is spoken of in Revelation 20, as well as Ezekiel 40 an onward for the rest of the book. It will be a time of teaching and I fully believe that it will be a time for those who did not have the chance to know Christ to make their choice.So yes, it's absolutely fair.
 

Jordan

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Apr 6, 2007
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First and Last, no one on this planet has a right to say who will go to the Lake of Fire. And no one on this planet has a right to say who will go to Heaven. Only God can make that call.
 

gumby

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May 29, 2009
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I beleive god has the final say in that matter, i dont really like to dive into whos going to hell and whos not.
 

Kadu 2

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May 31, 2009
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I agree, we should not really discuss who is going to hell. But I know of some amazing monk's who should definitely go to heaven, so as long as everyone will have a choice in the end.
 

Mighty Bear

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Oct 20, 2007
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It doesn't matter if you're not a Christian as long as you do what the law requires.1 John 3:4 ESV Everyone who makes a practice of sinning also practices lawlessness; sin is lawlessness.Romans 6:23 ESV For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.Romans 2:14-15 ESV For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. (15) They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them
 

Polar

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Apr 10, 2009
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Since man does not have the ability to see into the heart of others, man is in no position to say who will end up in Hell.Having said that, if you can show a person that their lifestyle or practices match the "thou shalt not" in God's Word, it would behoove that person to not to rely on the "God is love so He would never condemn anyone to Hell" defense.
 

josiahdefender

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May 19, 2009
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Well Kadu2Here's the way if works. God saves by his own Election. He choses whom he will save, he then sends the Spirit of God to preach to them by preachers, friends etc, using the word of God to bring the truth of God the incorruptable seed..and plant it in his heart. God regenerates the sinner and the sinner calls upon Jesus Christ in faith and repentance. God then adopts and justifies, he begins to live out his life as a child of God. So, the first person...I doubt he's going to heaven, He sounds just like the "add Jesus to my benefits list" sort of hearer. God doesnt save folks who trust in trying hard not to sin. God saves by grace sinners who depend upon God to transform their lives by the power of the Spirit of God. God delivers from the power of sin and the penalty of sin. If your first man matches that....than he is born again. The second man...Buddist, Islamic, Hindu, American secular....will die in their sins and will be cast into hell, there to finally be cast into the lake of fire. There is no second chance, there is no second chance Ezekiel or second chance Rev 20. Those are flat out errors. Who ever teaches that salvation can be acquired after ones death..they are heretics and liars...period..never and I mean never go near the teaching of anyone who proposes to you, salvation will be offered after the death their body in this life. If there is any statement of faith that anywhere near resembles orthodoxy...those who propose such doctrines are violating that statement of faith and every other statement of faith with Christian orthodoxy. I know Ive stepped on toes now, but let me assure every one of you, if you continue to preach that salvation is available to sinners after they are dead..You are a liar and a deciever, you fall under the condemnation of Gala 1:7-9. It is appoint unto men once to die and then the judgment. If the moderators actually believe this to be true and allow such error and heresy to continue, then it would do the body of Christ a great service if those moderators were fired and orthodox Jesus believing moderators were installed. If the owners actually believe that salvation is offered after the death of the wicked, then the owners are culpable and face the same judgment as the heretics who condone such error. Im a guest on this website, but Im more than a guest in the kingdom of God I am a son, as a son I resist every last bit of this deception that attempts to decieve people. This is no minor point, this is a non-negotiable truth. In this life only do we find the grace of God to place our faith and hope in the finished work of Jesus Christ. There will be no second life where the offer of grace is extended. Only the worst of heretic preached such drivel...and they will find out truly just how much forgiveness and instruction will come to them while they suffer in the lake of fire. Josiahdefender
 

Mighty Bear

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Oct 20, 2007
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hi Josiahdefender,There is a first resurrection and there is a second resurrection. Do you believe those belonging to the second resurrection will not go to heaven?Revelation 20:5 ESV The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended. This is the first resurrection.Psalms 82:6-7 ESV I said, "You are gods, sons of the Most High, all of you; (7) nevertheless, like men you shall die, and fall like any prince."John 12:24 ESV Truly, truly, I say to you, unless a grain of wheat falls into the earth and dies, it remains alone; but if it dies, it bears much fruit.Mark 9:1 ESV And he said to them, "Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the kingdom of God after it has come with power."Romans 2:9 ESV There will be tribulation and distress for every human being who does evil, the Jew first and also the Greek,Ephesians 2:1-2 ESV And you were dead in the trespasses and sins (2) in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience--Ephesians 2:4-5 ESV But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, (5) even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ--by grace you have been saved--
 

Polar

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Apr 10, 2009
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"It doesn't matter if you're not a Christian as long as you do what the law requires." -- MightyBearThat is only correct if "obeying the law" means "Love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your soul, all your strength, and all your mind..." A person who gives to the poor, helps his neighbor, donates to charity, does not commit crime, does not judge others...but does not believe in Jesus, will not enter Heaven. What does God's law require? -------> Luke 10:25-28 (KJV)"And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him (Jesus) saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? He (Jesus) said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou? And he (Lawyer) answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself. And he (Jesus) said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live."*** Notice, he said "AND your neighbour as your self" not "OR your neighbour as yourself." ***If you love the Lord the way it is described in Luke, then you will of course love your neighbour as yourself.If you love your neighbour as yourself but don't love the Lord, that isn't anywhere near the same thing and doesn't fulfill what God requires. Translation: You can't NOT love God and still be in obedience of God's law.
 

Mighty Bear

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Oct 20, 2007
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Yes, I agree Polar, but don't forget these verses.Romans 10:19 ESV But I ask, did Israel not understand? First Moses says, "I will make you jealous of those who are not a nation; with a foolish nation I will make you angry."Romans 10:20 ESV Then Isaiah is so bold as to say, "I have been found by those who did not seek me; I have shown myself to those who did not ask for me."Isaiah 65:1 LITV I have been sought, not by those who asked. I have been found, not by those who sought Me. To a nation not calling on My name, I said, Behold Me! Behold Me!
 

Polar

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I understand what you are saying MightyBear, but those verses do not negate the fact that it matters not if you realize who God is.Scores of people who know there is a God will not be in heaven.It matters only whether or not they love, worship, follow, and obey God. God will make the final judgement on whether they meet the criteria He has set forth or not, but He is very clear in His Word what he expects.I personally don't think He is going to say, "I was hungry and you didn't feed me.I was thirsty and you didn't give me to drink.I was naked and you didn't clothe me.I was a stranger and you didn't welcome me in....but I like you so c'mon in anyway."
 

Mighty Bear

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Just like to add, we must not rely on our own understanding, for God's will for one person may not be the same for another.John 21:21 ESV When Peter saw him, he said to Jesus, "Lord, what about this man?"John 21:22 ESV Jesus said to him, "If it is my will that he remain until I come, what is that to you? You follow me!"Matthew 20:12 ESV saying, 'These last worked only one hour, and you have made them equal to us who have borne the burden of the day and the scorching heat.'Matthew 20:13 ESV But he replied to one of them, 'Friend, I am doing you no wrong. Did you not agree with me for a denarius?
 

Polar

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Apr 10, 2009
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To be perfectly candid, though, none of those scriptures in any way counter what God said is required to get into heaven.They in no way imply that He would (or has) changed what he expects us to fulfill what he expects of us. Luke 10:25-28 (KJV)"And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him (Jesus) saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? He (Jesus) said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou? And he (Lawyer) answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself. And he (Jesus) said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live." ^ ^ ^ ^ He requires this. Period.To imply that "close enough may be good enough" is a formula that could work is an easy way to ensure failure for believers and 'almost' believers.Especially if you are going to consider the bar as fluid instead of set. It makes it subjective and thus dangerous.
 

Mighty Bear

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It's the Spirit who works in us and it's not the other way around. I do believe that works are not necessary for salvation.Matthew 7:21 ESV "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.Matthew 7:22 ESV On that day many will say to me, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?'Matthew 7:23 ESV And then will I declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.'Ephesians 2:8 ESV For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,
 

Polar

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"It's the Spirit who works in us and it's not the other way around. I do believe that works are not necessary for salvation." -- MightyBear-- I simply pointed out what Jesus himself agreed was necessary to receive salvation:""And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him (Jesus) saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? He (Jesus) said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou? And he (Lawyer) answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself. And he (Jesus) said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live."Luke 10:25-28 (KJV)-- Love the Lord with all your heart, soul, strength, and mind and love your neighbor as yourself. If you consider that "doing works"....
 

Jordan

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"It's the Spirit who works in us and it's not the other way around. I do believe that works are not necessary for salvation." -- MightyBear-- I simply pointed out what Jesus himself agreed was necessary to receive salvation:""And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him (Jesus) saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? He (Jesus) said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou? And he (Lawyer) answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself. And he (Jesus) said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live."Luke 10:25-28 (KJV)-- Love the Lord with all your heart, soul, strength, and mind and love your neighbor as yourself. If you consider that "doing works"....
With all due respect Polar, if works is required along with Christ, the Saviour of the world (John 4:42, I John 4:10, I Timothy 4:10) then Christ is useless.Ephesians 2:8-9 - For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.Romans 11:6 - And if by grace, then is it no more of works: [color="Red]otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.[/color]Let me remind you that when Paul and James using works in their sayings, they are both completely different definitions.Blessings
 

Polar

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"With all due respect Polar, if works is required along with Christ, the Saviour of the world (John 4:42, I John 4:10, I Timothy 4:10) then Christ is useless." -- Jordan-- I am speaking English, right?Read this scripture again. It details what God requires:"And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him (Jesus) saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? He (Jesus) said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou? And he (Lawyer) answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself. And he (Jesus) said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live."Luke 10:25-28 (KJV)-- Simple stuff. Love the Lord thy God with all your heart, soul, and strength and love your neighbor as yourself.God already loves you, just love him back and love others as yourself. Please tell me where "works" or any variation thereof is mentioned in that scripture.Of course it is by Grace you are saved. Your scriptures don't contradict what I posted in the least so your point is moot. And the multi-colored scriptures are a bit much...really. Is it really necessary to use FIVE different colors in one simple sentence?
 
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Jordan

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Luke 10:25-28 has something to do with what James said in James 2... This is nowhere referring to works by Paul Again...
... Let me remind you that when Paul and James using works in their sayings, they are both completely different definitions. ...
They BOTH uses DIFFERENT definition for the word works. Not yelling, but rather wanted to make sure if we are or not in the same page.Blessings
 

Pariah

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Now lets say a man has committed some very bad crimes against god's commandments.eg. Murdered a manNow as say he realized what he did was wrong and found the truth in Christ. Turned his life around. Asked for forgiveness and lived his life doing the work of Jesus.If he was truly remorseful and tried his best to sin no more. He will most likely go to heaven.Now for the second part.A man from Tibet is a devout Buddhist and his whole life has done his best to avoid sin (or whatever he believes to be impure things) he does not ask Jesus for forgiveness but anytime he has a negative thought or does something wrong, he apologizes with all his heart to the universe and every living being it it.Now who do you believe/think is more likely to go to heaven and if you believe the man who has asked for forgiveness from Jesus, do you think it is fair? and will the Buddhist go to heaven.
John 14: 6Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.Acts 4: 11This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner. 12Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.John 3: 16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. 21But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God. God knows whom are seeking Him and whom are not. God knows whom will receive Him and whom will not.Acts 16: 6Now when they had gone throughout Phrygia and the region of Galatia, and were forbidden of the Holy Ghost to preach the word in Asia, 7After they were come to Mysia, they assayed to go into Bithynia: but the Spirit suffered them not. 8And they passing by Mysia came down to Troas. 9And a vision appeared to Paul in the night; There stood a man of Macedonia, and prayed him, saying, Come over into Macedonia, and help us. 10And after he had seen the vision, immediately we endeavoured to go into Macedonia, assuredly gathering that the Lord had called us for to preach the gospel unto them.So if that devout Buddhist was truly seeking God, God would get the Gospel to him. If the Buddhist was a religious stuck up, then come gospel or not, he would reject Him.The promise of God is that all those that seek, shall find. All those that knock, the door shall be open. This is God being God.Romans 10: 13For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. 14How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? 15And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! 16But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? 17So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.I have read about a catholic missionary that came back from some backwood place in the wild and saw how these people of the tribe were so open and honest and loving that he coulod not perceive them as people God would go to hell. And by that, preached that some that do good deeds may go to Heaven as well. It got adopted by the late Pope John Paul, and yet not one catholic chasten the missionary for not sharing the Gospel of Jesus Christ to those people.We can try to look for exceptions, but it doesn't excuse us from sharing the Gospel. God knows all those that seek Him. Those that seek Him will get to hear the Gospel.1 Corinthians 9:16For though I preach the gospel, I have nothing to glory of: for necessity is laid upon me; yea, woe is unto me, if I preach not the gospel!
First and Last, no one on this planet has a right to say who will go to the Lake of Fire. And no one on this planet has a right to say who will go to Heaven. Only God can make that call.
God gave a heads up on that coming judgment.Revelation 19: 19And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army. 20And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. 21And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.Reads as pretty definite to me.Revelation 20: 10And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. 11And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. 12And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.FYI only.
With all due respect Polar, if works is required along with Christ, the Saviour of the world (John 4:42, I John 4:10, I Timothy 4:10) then Christ is useless.Ephesians 2:8-9 - For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.Romans 11:6 - And if by grace, then is it no more of works: [color="Red]otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.[/color]Let me remind you that when Paul and James using works in their sayings, they are both completely different definitions.Blessings
Yeah!! Amen!! Whoo whoo!!Hebrews 4:12For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.