Who Will Go To Hell?

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pia

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"With all due respect Polar, if works is required along with Christ, the Saviour of the world (John 4:42, I John 4:10, I Timothy 4:10) then Christ is useless." -- Jordan-- I am speaking English, right?Read this scripture again. It details what God requires:"And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him (Jesus) saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? He (Jesus) said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou? And he (Lawyer) answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself. And he (Jesus) said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live."Luke 10:25-28 (KJV)-- Simple stuff. Love the Lord thy God with all your heart, soul, and strength and love your neighbor as yourself.God already loves you, just love him back and love others as yourself. Please tell me where "works" or any variation thereof is mentioned in that scripture.Of course it is by Grace you are saved. Your scriptures don't contradict what I posted in the least so your point is moot. And the multi-colored scriptures are a bit much...really. Is it really necessary to use FIVE different colors in one simple sentence?
Hello polar.May I just ask you, just how many people do you know , who stay within the perfect law of God's love?Are you saying you've got it down pat, and you no longer need the Lord's grace?It's not by our trying we're saved, but by The Fathers will and design, and He has chosen to do it insuch a way, that no one need to be excluded.....Some may exclude themselves, but this gracious free gift of God,called salvation, is all on Him......Praise His Holy Name!!!!!!In His Love Pia
 

Polar

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"Hello polar.May I just ask you, just how many people do you know , who stay within the perfect law of God's love?Are you saying you've got it down pat, and you no longer need the Lord's grace?It's not by our trying we're saved, but by The Fathers will and design, and He has chosen to do it insuch a way, that no one need to be excluded.....Some may exclude themselves, but this gracious free gift of God,called salvation, is all on Him......Praise His Holy Name!!!!!!In His Love Pia" -- Pia, I am not sure of the reason for your question.I have said nothing that questions God's grace. I simply pointed out that this scripture is all you need to see salvation:"And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him (Jesus) saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? He (Jesus) said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou? And he (Lawyer) answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself. And he (Jesus) said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live."Luke 10:25-28 (KJV)I don't see this ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ as implying that you need works. If you love God and love your neighbor as yourself, you are saved. Will people be able to do this all the time without flaw? Of course not. That is where God's grace comes in.Simply ask God for help, seek His forgiveness and move forward.As far as "works" go... "Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me." Matt:25 34-40He then tells the others (the goats) "Depart from me you cursed ones, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels" specifically because they DIDN'T do what is listed above. Sounds kind of like some works are necessary.But then Jesus shows that if they had done all the things listed in Matt 25:34-40, but they did not have love in their hearts for Jesus or others, they would not be entering into heaven, either:"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." Matt. 7: 21-23Read into that what you will.I am simply basing my opinion on what Jesus said.
 

pia

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Hi again polar.In relation to the piece you keep quoting re; the lawyer wanting eternal life........We must not forget that The Law was ONLY given to the Hebrew people, for one thing, and also that everything changed after Jesus' resurrection.There is only that one commandment from Jesus, but that still doesn't mean that we can follow it, particularly when we try to do it, through nothing but writings.......Only The Holy Spirit, if full in us, can do this.How can we possibly think that we can love like He loves?......We don't even seem to comprehend the extent of His Love.Paul ( I think ) is quoted as saying, that if you subject yourself to one law, you're then bound by the whole law, then you've made His grace of no effect........But NO GENTILE was EVER under God's law.The only hope we have of growing in His Love, is to allow ourselves to be filled with His Love for us....Because, how can we give, what we don't have?Just let Him love you, till you're so full of His love, that it literally becomes like 'rivers of living water' coming out of you.Don't try to make the flesh more acceptable to God, He's not interested in that, as far as He is concerned, our flesh is already dead, and condemned.......Even if we could make ourselves as perfect as we can imagine, it would be a far cry from His perfection.I agree with others in that, we must never assume nor proclaim, who's going to hell. It's not our business, it's God's alone.......And it would make us stand in agreement with satan, he being the accuser........God desires mercy, forgiveness and love, even for the worst of our enemies.........Can we do that?We really should just enjoy our lives, which He has given us, and learn from HIM.Of course we are all entitled to our opinions, but we shouldn't try to force God into our ways ( not that we can, but still ), He has it under control.In His glorious Love................Pia
 

Jordan

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...We must not forget that The Law was ONLY given to the Hebrew people, for one thing, and also that everything changed after Jesus' resurrection. ...
You do realize that Christ never came to change the Law, or destroy it, right? Likewise, we are suppose to follow the Ten Commandments...Otherwise Christ wouldn't quote the Ten Commandments over and over and over again. We are saved by grace. (Ephesians 2:8-9)
 

mjrhealth

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Hi Jordan, it was God who gave the israelites the ten commandments they where never given to the gentiles, we where and still are not under the law, the Jews and many christians choose to live by the law and as long as you remain under the law you will be judged by it. Jesus fullfilled the law ( not not quiet sure what that means ill have to ask Him ), but after his death the Jews had no more reason to live by them, and again we never had them anyway. The ten commandments are like a road map showing us what is rght and wrong, but there is no man upon this earth today that can live by them its impossible and God knew it. Love is the only important work ( if you can call it that ) for us, as long as we love we are doing what God expects up to do.In His love
 

pia

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Hi Jordan, it was God who gave the israelites the ten commandments they where never given to the gentiles, we where and still are not under the law, the Jews and many christians choose to live by the law and as long as you remain under the law you will be judged by it. Jesus fullfilled the law ( not not quiet sure what that means ill have to ask Him ), but after his death the Jews had no more reason to live by them, and again we never had them anyway. The ten commandments are like a road map showing us what is rght and wrong, but there is no man upon this earth today that can live by them its impossible and God knew it. Love is the only important work ( if you can call it that ) for us, as long as we love we are doing what God expects up to do.In His love
Hello mjrhealth..........Absolutely right ! The law of Moses was given ONLY to the people God had chosen for Himself......Jesus, by living His entire life perfectly, in and by God's will and Word, thereby fulfilled every requirement God had placed upon mankind....OK so only one single solitary human being was ever able to it, and that was Jesus, and through Him, we're offered the free gift of salvation, if we are willing to accept that Jesus has fulfilled all our requirements ( through faith in Him ) for us.If you want to live your life following after the law, you're free to do so, but then you must make sure you don't leave anything out, as for me, I'm more than happy to accept His loving, generous offer, because me, well I sure as heck can't manage to follow all those laws.In His loving arms Pia
 

musicworld

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post by josiahdefender: Here's the way if works. God saves by his own Election. He choses whom he will save, he then sends the Spirit of God to preach to them by preachers, friends etc, using the word of God to bring the truth of God the incorruptable seed..and plant it in his heart. God regenerates the sinner and the sinner calls upon Jesus Christ in faith and repentance. God then adopts and justifies, he begins to live out his life as a child of God
That is an absolute preposterous statement where in your right mind did you find such a belief ? If what you've implied was to be true which it is most HOLY not then where does FREE WILL come in to it. Dear brother GOD put us on this earth to make that decision for our self’s not him for us. The correct answer to your false statement is that salvation is in our own hands, we will SAVE our self’s by independent work the repentance of our sins having faith in Christ and doing the will of GOD. It’s called reconciliation with your maker.If GOD was to choose who he wanted to be saved then this whole existence is a waist of time.
 

Polar

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"And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him (Jesus) saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? He (Jesus) said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou? And he (Lawyer) answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself. And he (Jesus) said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live."Luke 10:25-28 (KJV)^ ^ ^ ^ ^ Jesus didn't say this was only until He rose from the dead. He stated, "this do, and thou shalt live.""Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal." -- Matt. 25:41-46 (KJV)-- So, Pia...You skipped over this last time. How do you reconcile what you say with these words from Christ Himself?"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." Matt. 7: 21-23-- So....Luke 10:25-28 has Jesus agreeing that if you love God with all your heart, soul, strength, and mind, (meaning as best as you possibly can) and love your neighbor as yourself, then you will live.AND, Matt. 25:41-46 has Jesus saying, "Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:" because of what they did not do -- let me repeat that -- did not DO.Those scriptures, together with Matt. 7:21-23 above show that God does have expectations of you.His Grace will be sufficient for when you fail in your efforts, meaning he does not expect perfection. But He has shown he DOES INDEED expect you to make those efforts listed "with all your heart, soul, strength, and mind."To say otherwise, especially without providing evidence to the contrary, is to ensure you are not taken seriously.
 

Pariah

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You do realize that Christ never came to change the Law, or destroy it, right? Likewise, we are suppose to follow the Ten Commandments...Otherwise Christ wouldn't quote the Ten Commandments over and over and over again. We are saved by grace. (Ephesians 2:8-9)
That really does sound like being double-minded, Jordan.If we follow the Ten Commandments.. what does that really mean? Keeping them religiously?All I know is that I live by faith in the Son of God to help me live as His and not just for eternal life. By the grace of God, go I by faith in Him and all His promises to us so that is why it is written that the just shall live by faith... not by the Ten commandments... for our sights are not on the letter of the Law, but on Jesus Christ to help us live as His nowe that He has made us His, bought with a price and sealed as His for simply believing. That is why the Gospel has to be simple and why little children can frelly come to Him and why the poor in spirit are blessed for they know they cannot do it as no matter how much the spirit is willing, the flesh is weak therefore what is impossible with man.. is possible with God.Galatians 3:21Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law. 22But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.Galatians 3: 1O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? 2This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? 4Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain. 5He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 6Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. 7Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham. 8And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed. 9So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham. 10For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. 11But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. 12And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them. 13Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: 14That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. Galatians 3:25But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. 26For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.Galatians 2:20I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
 

Jordan

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With all due respect, What do you think the Ten Commandments are? Made by man? No!, Made by God? Yes... if we aren't to follow it, why did Christ quote it?
 

Polar

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I gotta go with Jordan on this one.Pariah, volume does not = value, especially when the multiple scriptures do not address the specific discussion.That point is driven home when you purposefully ignore scripture that does. For example:"And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him (Jesus) saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? He (Jesus) said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou? And he (Lawyer) answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself. And he (Jesus) said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live."Luke 10:25-28 (KJV)^ ^ ^ ^ ^ In this case, the word 'love' is used as a verb.God's grace covers your shortcomings if you are doing your best.If you aren't putting in the effort, you end up like those in the scripture below:"Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal." -- Matt. 25:41-46 (KJV)^ ^ ^ ^ ^ This sure looks like Jesus has expectations of us as Christians, does it not?If you love Jesus "with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself," that will mean doing what is in the above listed scripture.Let me put it another way, how can you love Jesus and not feels compelled from that love to do what is listed in this scripture?God didn't say, "You didn't feed me, clothe me, visit me, give me something to drink, etc. but you did love me so no sweat." And NO, he doesn't expect just works to "earn" your way into heaven. No one can "earn" their way into heaven. This scripture proves that:"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." Matt. 7: 21-23You must love God, "with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself." If you do that, then you will feel compelled to do what he casts out the goats for not doing.Will you be perfect at it? Of course not.Does it 'earn' you a place in Heaven? Again, of course not.But He does expect you to be His representative here on earth.That means, clothing, feeding, visiting, etc. etc. etc.His grace carries you the rest of the way. And Pariah, posting a bevy of scriptures that show God loves us in no way negates these, Christ's own words.Volume does not = value.Please address these scriptures.
 

Pariah

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With all due respect, What do you think the Ten Commandments are? Made by man? No!, Made by God? Yes... if we aren't to follow it, why did Christ quote it?
The point is, and may God cause the increase, is that you do not look to the Ten commandments in living the christian life. You look to the Son of God to live the christian life. You cannot do both. The scriptures provide a guide as to where we need the Lord's help in, because the ten commandments do not cover it all. To seek to follow as to keep the ten commandments is to bear testimony of man or self. We have to deny ourselves as able. Is God's New Covenant to us complete that man can tack on their attempts of filthy rags of righteousness by the law as being known as a keeper of them? Then what did Jesus come for? Vanity? No.Galatians 3:21Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law. 22But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.Galatians 2:20I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. 21I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.We are the children of God by faith in Jesus Christ and loving others is the fulfillment of the law, His workmanship being manifested in us as we trust Him to do it.Or do you not believe that Jesus can help you live as His by faith in Him alone?
 

Pariah

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"And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him (Jesus) saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? He (Jesus) said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou? And he (Lawyer) answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself. And he (Jesus) said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live."Luke 10:25-28 (KJV)^ ^ ^ ^ ^ In this case, the word 'love' is used as a verb.God's grace covers your shortcomings if you are doing your best.If you aren't putting in the effort, you end up like those in the scripture below:
Do note the attitude of the certain lawyer: Luke 10: 25And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him....And if you had included thia following verse, by His grace, may we see his fallibility under the law.Luke 10:29But he, willing to justify himself, said unto Jesus, And who is my neighbour?So that lawyer answered rightly, but he wasn't really doing it, was he?This is what Jesus spoke plainly of everyone under the law.John 7: 18He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him. 19Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law? Why go ye about to kill me?So no one can be known as a keeper of the law lest they seek to glorify themselves over others and falsely too.
"Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal." -- Matt. 25:41-46 (KJV)^ ^ ^ ^ ^ This sure looks like Jesus has expectations of us as Christians, does it not?
Are you sure He was talking about believers?Let us look at that standard of judgment if it was to believers.
Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
So even if you think this is about believers, then no matter if you feed or clothe or visit as many people that you have done, if you did it not to even one, as in passing an opportunity, then you did it to Jesus, and you are condmned, but it is not so, my wayward brother. Look at who is condemned with them at the time this judgment is being given: the devil and his angels. Then apply it to Revelation time of judgment as when this will happen. All believers are His. Anyone in the great tribulation that did not have the mark of the beast nor worshipped the beast but did not believe in Jesus will be judged as to how they had treated those that are His during the great tribulation. This is because as they are still alive, they can go into the milleniel reign of Christ for doing good unto the believers or not doing good when they had opportunities to do so by not showing love for others. This judgment had to be given by Jesus so that His written word shows how He will judge those people that are still alive that had come out of the great tribulation and why He would judge some and not others.
And NO, he doesn't expect just works to "earn" your way into heaven. No one can "earn" their way into heaven. This scripture proves that:
No it doesn't. These scriptures below disprove what you say.Titus 3:4But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, 5Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; 6Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; 7That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.Romans 11: 5Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.6And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.Romans 4: 3For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. 4Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. 5But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. 6Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, 7Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. 8Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." Matt. 7: 21-23
That judgment was for climbing up another way as being a worker of iniquity. False prophets have broadened the way, and it is in this, wayward brother, you have gone astray in. You do not come to God by way of the Holy Spirit. You can only come to God the Father through the Son. John 14:6 Jesus said so. No ifs and buts about Him.
You must love God, "with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself." If you do that, then you will feel compelled to do what he casts out the goats for not doing.Will you be perfect at it? Of course not.Does it 'earn' you a place in Heaven? Again, of course not.But He does expect you to be His representative here on earth.
And yet as you speak this truth, you are not doing it as you are representing something else in His name.. the Holy Spirit. The inner dwelling Holy Spirit and the faithful witness will only speak of Christ Jesus. He is the Good News.
That means, clothing, feeding, visiting, etc. etc. etc.His grace carries you the rest of the way.
Cannot be grace if it is of works for then grace is no longer grace.
And Pariah, posting a bevy of scriptures that show God loves us in no way negates these, Christ's own words.Volume does not = value.Please address these scriptures.
Sometimes blindness keeps a believer that is labouring in unbelief from seeing the scope of His love for us. Those that get left behind for not being ready and found abiding in Him will see that purpose for being left behind in going through the great tribulation. 1 Corinthians 3:10-23 Hebrews 12:1-29Romans 8: 28And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. 29For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. 31What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us? 32He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things? 33Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth. 34Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. 35Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? 36As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter. 37Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. 38For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, 39Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.That is why the prodigal son is still son.
 

jtartar

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Hello Everyone,First time poster, I am interested in your views in some area's of Christianity. I like the debate because I believe I will get some lively responses.Now lets say a man has committed some very bad crimes against god's commandments.eg. Murdered a manNow as say he realized what he did was wrong and found the truth in Christ. Turned his life around. Asked for forgiveness and lived his life doing the work of Jesus.If he was truly remorseful and tried his best to sin no more. He will most likely go to heaven.Now for the second part.A man from Tibet is a devout Buddhist and his whole life has done his best to avoid sin (or whatever he believes to be impure things) he does not ask Jesus for forgiveness but anytime he has a negative thought or does something wrong, he apologizes with all his heart to the universe and every living being it it.Now who do you believe/think is more likely to go to heaven and if you believe the man who has asked for forgiveness from Jesus, do you think it is fair? and will the Buddhist go to heaven.
Kadu, There is much more to what you have asked than you realize. First: exactly what is HELL?? According to the scriptures hell is the common grave of mankind, as canbe seen by a comparison of the scripture in Psalm 16:10 to Acts 2:27,31, Ps 16:10. Of course most people believe HELL to be a place of eternal torment. This is false!! People who do not obey God or Jesus Christ finally end up in the Lake of Fire, The Second Death, Rev 20:14,15. When Jesus warned people about Gehenna, in several scriptures, Matt 5:22,18:8,9, Mark 9:43-48,Luke 12:4,5,he was warning about more than just the grave, because everyone goes to the grave. Jesus was warning about the Second death. This is because anyone who goes into the Lake of Fire has no hope of a resurrection, it is the second DEATH!! This is all proved by what Paul wrote at 2Thes 1:6-9. The judicial punishment of EVERLASTING DESTRUCTION is the same as the SECOND DEATH, THE LAKE OF FIRE AND SULPHUR. Since it is everalsting, there can be NO resurrection. For people who go into the grave, Hell, whether righteous or unrighteous, they will be resurrected, John 5:28,29, Acts 24:15. According to what the scriptures say, there is a difference between a person unrighteous and a WICKED person. Unrighteous people have a hope of a resurrection, while it seems that anyone called wicked by God have no hope of a resurrection, Ps 9:5, Prov 10:28,11:7. The Bible tells us that the only name given to men is the name Jesus, by which all MUST be saved, Acts 4:12, Also Jesus said that he is the WAY, the truth and the life, that no one comes to the Father except through Jesus, John 14:6. Even with these scriptures, there may be exceptions to this rule. Notice what Rom 2:14-16, says.
 

Jimmy Engle

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Going back to the original post for this topic, I would like to point out that it says right in the bible that you are not supposed to judge others at all in Matthew 7:1-2. So to say one person is going to heaven and another to hell or anything like that is wrong. We can't make such statements because we are only man...not God.
 

Jordan

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Going back to the original post for this topic, I would like to point out that it says right in the bible that you are not supposed to judge others at all in Matthew 7:1-2. So to say one person is going to heaven and another to hell or anything like that is wrong. We can't make such statements because we are only man...not God.
True, we aren't allowed to judge others. (Matthew 7:1, Luke 6:37, John 8:15), but clearly the bible says we are allowed to judge the fruit. (Matthew 7:16,17,18,19,20, John 7:24, I John 4:1) We are suppose to try to correct our Brothers and Sisters... if they don't want to listen, that is on their heads.But again, no man can say they can go to Hell (Lake of Fire) or not. But I can say this... All souls goes back to God who gave them.Ecclesiastes 12:7 - Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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Hello Everyone,First time poster, I am interested in your views in some area's of Christianity. I like the debate because I believe I will get some lively responses.Now lets say a man has committed some very bad crimes against god's commandments.eg. Murdered a manNow as say he realized what he did was wrong and found the truth in Christ. Turned his life around. Asked for forgiveness and lived his life doing the work of Jesus.If he was truly remorseful and tried his best to sin no more. He will most likely go to heaven.Now for the second part.A man from Tibet is a devout Buddhist and his whole life has done his best to avoid sin (or whatever he believes to be impure things) he does not ask Jesus for forgiveness but anytime he has a negative thought or does something wrong, he apologizes with all his heart to the universe and every living being it it.Now who do you believe/think is more likely to go to heaven and if you believe the man who has asked for forgiveness from Jesus, do you think it is fair? and will the Buddhist go to heaven.

Because I believe Jehovah God kingdom that he has made his only begotten Son Jesus Christ King of to be the only hope for mankind and because I believe a limited number of people to get Resurrection into heaven (144000) the rest who die before Armageddon and God has Judged worthy of a Resurrection will be resurrected on a paradise Earth. If God has Judged you unworthy of a Resurrection then you will remain in nonexistence for eternity, but being in a fiery torment hell is unbiblical. That kind of hell is borrowed from pagan religious sources. When the King James Bible first came out in 1611 and the English word hell was used back then, the word hell meant to cover over, not roasting anyone. Over the Centuries however it took the pagan meaning of torturing someone for eternity by fire, which as I said is a idea borrowed from paganism.
 

Enoch111

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Because I believe Jehovah God kingdom that he has made his only begotten Son Jesus Christ King of to be the only hope for mankind and because I believe a limited number of people to get Resurrection into heaven (144000) the rest who die before Armageddon and God has Judged worthy of a Resurrection will be resurrected on a paradise Earth.
Well Barney, Christians know that the teachings of the Jehovah's Witnesses are false and heretical. It is rightly called a cult.

So perhaps you should simply abandon the lies of the Watchtower Society and get into genuine Bible truth.

That they are liars is evident from the BOGUS John 1:1 in the New World Translation: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God,and the Word was a god.

There are no demi-gods other than in pagan mythology. Jesus is either GOD (THEOS) (as stated in John 1:1) or He is neither Christ nor Lord.
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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Well Barney, Christians know that the teachings of the Jehovah's Witnesses are false and heretical. It is rightly called a cult.

So perhaps you should simply abandon the lies of the Watchtower Society and get into genuine Bible truth.

That they are liars is evident from the BOGUS John 1:1 in the New World Translation: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God,and the Word was a god.

There are no demi-gods other than in pagan mythology. Jesus is either GOD (THEOS) (as stated in John 1:1) or He is neither Christ nor Lord.

I don't worry what you or anyone else thinks of me or the Jehovah Witnesses. Do you or anyone else in the world think that you are perfect infallible people and I should listen to you for that reason. I see other people in the world as I am, an imperfect fallible person. You have the right to believe as you wish, agree and disagree as you wish. That doesn't mean I'm going to agree with you and I don't. Jesus Christ told me in the scriptures to expect being called demons and liars etc.
 

Nancy

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"With all due respect Polar, if works is required along with Christ, the Saviour of the world (John 4:42, I John 4:10, I Timothy 4:10) then Christ is useless." -- Jordan-- I am speaking English, right?Read this scripture again. It details what God requires:"And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him (Jesus) saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? He (Jesus) said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou? And he (Lawyer) answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself. And he (Jesus) said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live."Luke 10:25-28 (KJV)-- Simple stuff. Love the Lord thy God with all your heart, soul, and strength and love your neighbor as yourself.God already loves you, just love him back and love others as yourself. Please tell me where "works" or any variation thereof is mentioned in that scripture.Of course it is by Grace you are saved. Your scriptures don't contradict what I posted in the least so your point is moot. And the multi-colored scriptures are a bit much...really. Is it really necessary to use FIVE different colors in one simple sentence?

Great Post!
I think people are so confused about "works"...to me there only two kinds"
1-the kind that brings glory to self
2-the kind that bring ALL the glory to God
The good one #2, These works come from the Spirit of God working THROUGH you, you know it when you no longer hold onto stuff like, your money, time etc. You start to WANT to do those types of good works and to think...we never have to go looking for them because:

Ephesians 2:10 English Standard Version (ESV)
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
So, we go on about our business and say, on the way to work we see someone in need...maybe a flat tire, or some elderly person trips and falls...them being alone....let's say it's even wintertime and very cold and icy. Would you follow your new heart and stop to help? Or, would you just keep moving on cause you do not want to be late??? Just food for thought.
In His Name,
-nancy