Is my salvation based upon my knowledge of the Trinity?

Joseph77 said:

No matter concerning what others serve - jws serve a false god,
this is already proven for decades or longer .

If anyone else also serves a false god, that still will not help jws.

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This is like the pot calling the kettle black, and both are black. listen, Romans 14:13 "Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way".

Romans 12:1 "I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
Romans 12:2 "And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
Romans 12:3 "For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.
Romans 12:4 "For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office:
Romans 12:5 "So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.

PICJAG.

Waiting on him said:

Isaiah 48:11 KJV
For mine own sake, even for mine own sake, will I do it : for how should my name be polluted? and I will not give my glory unto another.

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(smile), correct, nor is there anyone "equal". Isaiah 40:25 "To whom then will ye liken me, or shall I be equal? saith the Holy One". or this, Isaiah 46:5 "To whom will ye liken me, and make me equal, and compare me, that we may be like?"

BINGO,

PICJAG.

Waiting on him said:

John 17:4-5 KJV
I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. [5] And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

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you took the words right out of my mouth, "And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was"

BINGO, come to the HEAD of the class.

scripture, Amos 3:3 "Can two walk together, except they be agreed?

PICJAG.

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WHOEVER brings a false gospel is accursed. The preachers, and the members.
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"There are some who trouble you: Those who brought this other gospel to the Galatians brought them trouble. They didn’t advertise their message as trouble, but that is what it was.

i. Some who trouble you means that someone brought this false gospel to the Galatians. False gospels don’t just happen. People bring them, and the people who bring them may be sincere and have a lot of charisma.

ii. “Note the resourcefulness of the devil. Heretics do not advertise their errors. Murderers, adulterers, thieves disguise themselves. So the devil masquerades all these devices and activities. He puts on white to make himself look like an angel of light.” (Martin Luther)

d. To pervert the gospel of Christ: The other gospel was really a perversion or a distortion of the true gospel of Jesus Christ. It didn’t start from nothing and make up a new name for God and pretending to have a new Savior. It used the names and ideas familiar to the Galatian Christians, but it slightly twisted the ideas to make their message all the more deceptive.

i. The gospel of Christ: Notice that Paul was really not contending for the gospel of Paul, though it was his gospel also. Paul’s gospel was only worth defending and fighting for because it was in fact the gospel of Christ Jesus.

e. Want to pervert the gospel of Christ: Paul plainly wrote that these people want to distort the good news of Jesus. It is sometimes hard for us to understand why someone would want to pervert the gospel of Christ.

i. There is something about the message of the true gospel that is deeply offensive to human nature. To understand this, we should first understand what the true gospel is. Paul stated his gospel most succinctly in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4. The message of the gospel is what Jesus did on the cross for us as revealed by the Scriptures and proven by the resurrection.

ii. When we understand how offensive the true gospel is to human nature, we better understand why someone would want to pervert it.

· The gospel offends our pride. It tells us we need a savior, and that we cannot save ourselves. It gives no credit to us at all for our salvation; it is all the work of Jesus for us.
· The gospel offends our wisdom. It saves us by something many consider foolish – God becoming man and dying a humiliating, disgraceful death on our behalf.
· Third, the gospel offends our knowledge. It tells us to believe something which goes against scientific knowledge and personal experience – that a dead man, Jesus Christ, rose from the dead in a glorious new body that would never die again.

3. (Gal 1:8-9) A solemn curse upon those who bring a false gospel.

But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed.

As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed.

a. But even if we, or an angel from heaven:

Paul didn’t care who brought the false gospel. Even if it were himself, or an angel from heaven, it was to be rejected. Any person who spreads a false gospel was worthy only of a particular curse from God (let him be accursed)."

101G said:

This is like the pot calling the kettle black, and both are black.

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Galatians 1:6 "I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
Galatians 1:7 "Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
Galatians 1:8 "But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
Galatians 1:9 "As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.



PICJAG.

When or if you join with the anti-christs/ false gospel/ accursed ones/ as in pretense of >>
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101G said:

Romans 12:4 "For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office:
Romans 12:5 "So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.

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then >>>
=============================
QUOTE=]Galatians 1:6 "I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
Galatians 1:7 "Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
Galatians 1:8 "But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
Galatians 1:9 "As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.[/QUOTE

i don't think
the truth matters about
3 in 1 God, 1 God, 2 Gods
because there are a lot of possibilities
it was not just trinity some believed that there was two Gods some believed there's only 1 God

you can't tell them or blame them for being stupid and blind because we all have different interpretations

what matters is through christ our saviour this is what matters

speaking in tongues? are all righteous speak in tongues? according to what i know "No" they don't

what about religions? well churches beliefs separate us from each other and makes us hate each other because of different beliefs but i still believe Roman Catholic is a very wrong religion compare to others because of idols

trinity originally from Roman Catholic beliefs

BARNEY BRIGHT said:

I think it rude to the True God to slander his name because trinitarians apply a anti-Christ doctrine which is what the Trinity doctrine is, to God.

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Again, Same could be said of you, and your refusal to admit that Jesus was the Lord of Israel. The one who spoke to Moses in the burning bush, The one who created the universe and his outstretched arms hold it together. Ho was sent by the Lord God, and His spirit..

So what do we do. Sit here and attack each other because we think each other is wrong? What Good will that do any of us? In fact It ameks us look bad to the outside world. But if that is what you wish to do? wow,, I will pray

BARNEY BRIGHT said:

.

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so this must be all you have to say about the passage I used in the OT that proves the trinity exists? I am assuming this is the post you edited out since it pretty much is the only thing I have responded to you with.

I pray this gives you pause. and stops your attack on those who disagree with you

Steve Owen said:

Interestingly, there is no portion of the Lord's prayer that cannot be properly addressed to the Lord Jesus.

'Our Father which art in heaven.
Isaiah 9:6. 'Everlasting Father.' John 3:13. 'The Son of man which is in heaven.'

'Hallowed be thy name.'
2 Thes. 1:12. 'That the name of our Lord may be glorified.'

'Thy kingdom come.'
2 Peter 1:11. The everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.'

'Thy will be done on earth.'
Col. 3:24. 'Ye serve the Lord Christ.'

'As it is in heaven.'
1 Peter 3:22. 'Jesus Christ is gone into heaven....angels and authorities and powers being made subject to him.'

Give us this day our daily bread.'
Isaiah 11:11. 'He shall feed his flock like a shepherd.'

'Forgive us our debts as we forgive our debtors.'
Col. 3:13. 'Forgiving one another: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye.'

'And lead us not into temptation.'
John 10:3, 27. 'He leadeth them out. My sheep.....follow me.'

'But deliver us from evil.'
Gal. 1:4. 'Jesus Christ, who gave himself for our sins that he might deliver us from this present evil world.'

'For thine is the kingdom, the power and the glory, for ever and ever, Amen.
Rev. 11:15. 'He shall reign forever. Rev. 1:6. 'To him be glory and dominion for ever and ever.'

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What an imagination you have mate. Do you really believe in what you just wrote?

You might want to discover what the difference is between a title/role of a person/being and their personal names. And then to align them correctly to YHWH and Yahshua that are uniquely different and mutually exclusive. And also to know and use context and acute and the most accurate translations of some passages you have used, together.

Just say..Blessings,

APAK

Eternally Grateful said:

Again, Same could be said of you, and your refusal to admit that Jesus was the Lord of Israel. The one who spoke to Moses in the burning bush, The one who created the universe and his outstretched arms hold it together. Ho was sent by the Lord God, and His spirit..

So what do we do. Sit here and attack each other because we think each other is wrong? What Good will that do any of us? In fact It ameks us look bad to the outside world. But if that is what you wish to do? wow,, I will pray

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Welllll, I also refuse to believe that Yahshua was the Lord of Israel in the OT and also the one who spoke in the burning bush. And especially because he never existed at that point in time except in the mind of his Father, YHWH.

Convince me then...waiting for some appropriate scripture and context for your argument.

Blessings,

APAK

APAK said:

Welllll, I also refuse to believe that Yahshua was the Lord of Israel in the OT and also the one who spoke in the burning bush. And especially because he never existed at that point in time except in the mind of his Father, YHWH.

Convince me then...waiting for some appropriate scripture and context for your argument.

Blessings,

APAK

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1. I gave a passage earlier. But no one has even responded to it
Is 48:
“Listen to Me, O Jacob And Israel, My called: I am He, I am the First, I am also the Last. 13 Indeed My hand has laid the foundation of the earth, And My right hand has stretched out the heavens; When I call to them, They stand up together.
14 “All of you, assemble yourselves, and hear! Who among them has declared these things? The Lord loves him; He shall do His pleasure on Babylon, And His arm shall be against the Chaldeans.
15 I, even I, have spoken; Yes, I have called him, I have brought him, and his way will prosper.
16 “Come near to Me, hear this: I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; From the time that it was, I was there. And now the Lord God and His Spirit Have sent Me.”

As you can see. Jesus is the one who is sent, He is also creator and sustainor. And he was sent by the Lord God (father) and his Spirit. two distinct entities of the godhead. who sent the third one.


2. Jesus himself stated. Before Abraham existed, He always was (the word I Am is ego eimi in the greek, which is exactly the same words used in the greek interpretation of the OT, also known as the Septuagint, Used by the lord when moses asked his name Gods response is "ego eimi" it is the reason that the jews fell back and threatened to stone him for blasphemy, as they understood, He was claiming to be God, and according to the law. Anyone who did this was to be stoned.

oops. Total heresy. Sad to see ...... other posts in the past were (and remain themselves isolated now) so good and (seemingly) right.

APAK said:

And especially because he never existed at that point in time except in the mind of his Father, YHWH.

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Eternally Grateful said:

so this must be all you have to say about the passage I used in the OT that proves the trinity exists? I am assuming this is the post you edited out since it pretty much is the only thing I have responded to you with.

I pray this gives you pause. and stops your attack on those who disagree with you

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Actually that was a mistake, I thought I had deleted the post I was going to send, but obviously I didn't. I thought that the two scriptures I did post was enough to show a genuine seeker of truth how you're taking scriptures out of context to prove your Trinity doctrine. I don't have to answer all the scriptures you quoted in that post to do that, because someone who insists on me answering every one of those scriptures you posted that you are taking scriptures out of context to prove that's what you're actually doing awith a couple of those scriptures, isn't a genuine seeker of truth, so even if I did answer every one of those scriptures to prove your taking them out of context, such a person still wouldn't believe. When someone is taking scriptures out of context to prove what they believe is true, when someone has already shown that they're doing so with at least a couple of scriptures they've quoted, they could show you're doing that with all the scriptures you quoted in that post and they still wouldn't believe, so what's the point with answering every scripture you quoted in that post.

Eternally Grateful said:

As you can see. Jesus is the one who is sent, He is also creator and sustainor. And he was sent by the Lord God (father) and his Spirit. two distinct entities of the godhead. who sent the third one.

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APAK said:

Welllll, I also refuse to believe that Yahshua was the Lord of Israel in the OT and also the one who spoke in the burning bush. And especially because he never existed at that point in time except in the mind of his Father, YHWH.

Convince me then...waiting for some appropriate scripture and context for your argument.

Blessings,

APAK

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not trying to get into your conversation, but it was JESUS who was in the OT, without flesh and bone. 1 Corinthians 10:1 "Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
1 Corinthians 10:2 "And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
1 Corinthians 10:3 "And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
1 Corinthians 10:4 "And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
1 Corinthians 10:5 "But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.

notice the past tense desigination "was .... Christ. and God is the "ROCK". for the Lord JESUS is that ROCK.

PICJAG.

Eternally Grateful said:

As you can see. Jesus is the one who is sent, He is also creator and sustainor. And he was sent by the Lord God (father) and his Spirit. two distinct entities of the godhead. who sent the third one.

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Not saying that you're right or wrong, but consider this. the one whom you calls the Lord God (father) and his Spirit, is JESUS Almighty.
you used Isaiah 48:16 "Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me".

lets point this out as who is the "Lord God", ok. follow this, Revelation 1:1 "The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John". ok, someone sent "HIS" angel to John with this revelation ... correct. now the angel tells us plainly who sent him, listen, Revelation 22:6 "And he said unto me, (the angel that was sent), These sayings are faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done". GOOD, the angel said "the Lord God" sent him, the Lord God of the holy prophets, meaning the "GOD" of the OT as well as the NT. but to answer our question, who is the Lord God that sent "HIS" angel to John, here's your answer, READ Revelation 22:16, there you will see who is the Lord God, that "SENT" his angel to John. when you read that go back to Isaiah 48:16 and reconcile as to who was sent.

then get back to me and we can discuss what you found.

Thanks in advance, be blessed.

PICJAG.

BARNEY BRIGHT said:

Actually that was a mistake, I thought I had deleted the post I was going to send, but obviously I didn't. I thought that the two scriptures I did post was enough to show a genuine seeker of truth how you're taking scriptures out of context to prove your Trinity doctrine. I don't have to answer all the scriptures you quoted in that post to do that, because someone who insists on me answering every one of those scriptures you posted that you are taking scriptures out of context to prove that's what you're actually doing awith a couple of those scriptures, isn't a genuine seeker of truth, so even if I did answer every one of those scriptures to prove your taking them out of context, such a person still wouldn't believe. When someone is taking scriptures out of context to prove what they believe is true, when someone has already shown that they're doing so with at least a couple of scriptures they've quoted, they could show you're doing that with all the scriptures you quoted in that post and they still wouldn't believe, so what's the point with answering every scripture you quoted in that post.

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1. I posted 1 passage
2. The passage I posted does not agree with your interpretation of the 2 passages you quoted.
3. Either the bible contradicts. or the passage I showed shows the son, or called himself creator. who is called the reedemer, and sent by the father and his spirit

anyway, Here it is again, Show me how else I can interpret what The God of Israel is saying here.

Is 48:
“Listen to Me, O Jacob And Israel, My called: I am He, I am the First, I am also the Last. 13 Indeed My hand has laid the foundation of the earth, And My right hand has stretched out the heavens; When I call to them, They stand up together.
14 “All of you, assemble yourselves, and hear! Who among them has declared these things? The Lord loves him; He shall do His pleasure on Babylon, And His arm shall be against the Chaldeans.
15 I, even I, have spoken; Yes, I have called him, I have brought him, and his way will prosper.
16 “Come near to Me, hear this: I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; From the time that it was, I was there. And now the Lord God and His Spirit Have sent Me.”

As you can see. Jesus is the one who is sent, He is also creator and sustainor. And he was sent by the Lord God (father) and his Spirit. two distinct entities of the godhead. who sent the third one.

101G said:

Not saying that you're right or wrong, but consider this. the one whom you calls the Lord God (father) and his Spirit, is JESUS Almighty.
you used Isaiah 48:16 "Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me".

lets point this out as who is the "Lord God", ok. follow this, Revelation 1:1 "The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John". ok, someone sent "HIS" angel to John with this revelation ... correct. now the angel tells us plainly who sent him, listen, Revelation 22:6 "And he said unto me, (the angel that was sent), These sayings are faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done". GOOD, the angel said "the Lord God" sent him, the Lord God of the holy prophets, meaning the "GOD" of the OT as well as the NT. but to answer our question, who is the Lord God that sent "HIS" angel to John, here's your answer, READ Revelation 22:16, there you will see who is the Lord God, that "SENT" his angel to John. when you read that go back to Isaiah 48:16 and reconcile as to who was sent.

then get back to me and we can discuss what you found.

Thanks in advance, be blessed.

PICJAG.

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just so I understand, I do not want to misrepresent what you said, so in question..

Are you saying is Jesus (the lord God) and Jesus (and his spirit) sent Jesus (sent me)

This is only reasonable if the father son and spirit are three distinct entities, All of which are called God.

Remember, The bible has said no one has seen the father. Yet Jesus as the son of Man was seen numerous times in human form in even the OT, and as a human in the NT who was crucified. And he had to go away, so the father could send the spirit.

BARNEY BRIGHT said:

Believers in the Trinity renders Hebrews 1:8 this way: “But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever.” Thus, they feel that Jesus is shown to be the same as Almighty God. Why is this not correct?

First, note the context. In many translations, either in the main text or in the margin, Hebrews 1:9 reads, “God, your God, anointed you.” This makes it clear that the one addressed in verse eight is not God, but one who worships God and is anointed by him.

Secondly, it should be noted that Hebrews 1:8, 9 is a quotation from Psalm 45:6, 7, which originally was addressed to a human king of Israel. Surely the writer of this psalm did not think that this human king was Almighty God and neither did the writer of Hebrews think that Jesus was Almighty God. Commenting on this, scholar B. F. Westcott said: “It is scarcely possible that אלוהים [‘Elo·himʹ, “God”] in the original can be addressed to the king. . . . Thus on the whole it seems best to adopt in the first clause the rendering: God is Thy throne (or, Thy throne is God), that is ‘Thy kingdom is founded upon God.’”


At Isaiah 44:6 Jehovah rightly describes his own position as the one and only almighty God, saying: “I am the first and I am the last, and besides me there is no God.” When Jesus presents himself by the title “the First and the Last,” he is not claiming equality with Jehovah, the Grand Creator. He is using a title properly bestowed on him by God. In Isaiah, Jehovah was making a statement about His unique position as the true God. He is God eternal, and besides him there is indeed no God. (1 Timothy 1:17) In Revelation, Jesus is talking about his bestowed title, calling attention to his unique resurrection.
Jesus was indeed “the First” human to be resurrected to immortal spirit life. (Colossians 1:18) Moreover, he is “the Last” to be so resurrected by Jehovah God personally. Thus, he becomes “the living one living forever and ever.” He enjoys immortality. In this, he is like his immortal Father, who is called “the living God.” (Revelation 7:2; Psalm 42:2) For all others of humanity, Jesus himself is “the resurrection and the life.” (John 11:25) In harmony with this, he says to John: “I became dead, but, look! I am living forever and ever, and I have the keys of death and of Hades.” (Revelation 1:18b) Jehovah has given him the authority to resurrect the dead. That is why Jesus can say that he has the keys to unlock the gates for those bound by death and Hades (gravedom).

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13 For he has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son he loves,
14 in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.
15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
16 For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him.
17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.
18 And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy.
19 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him,
Colossians 1:13-19

29 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.
Rom 8:29

6 And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world, he says, "Let all God's angels worship him."
7 In speaking of the angels he says, "He makes his angels winds, his servants flames of fire."
8 But about the Son he says, "Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever, and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom.
Heb 1:6-8

61 But Jesus remained silent and gave no answer. Again the high priest asked him, "Are you the Christ, the Son of the Blessed One?"
62 "I am," said Jesus. "And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven."
Mark 14:61-62

14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
John 1:14

1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched--this we proclaim concerning the Word of life.
2 The life appeared; we have seen it and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us.
3 We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ.
1 John 1:1-3

Jesus was with the Father at the beginning of everything. Because he is eternal he is God.
The reason why Jesus had to be God, was to demonstrate God had not given man an impossible task of walking the way of righteousness, rather God himself with mans limitations would walk this walk, and show man He was friendly and approachable through Christ.

This is the core issue, God is someone who desires our fellowship and sharing, once purified and cleansed. No one else could have brought this message than Him, and we are His creation made in His image to have this very communion and fellowship.