If Jesus has not risen, then our faith would be in vain, but because you believe He is risen, you are saved. No man can come to the Son unless it is the Father that draws him or her. Those that love the darkness will not come to the Light lest their evil deeds be reproved. The fact that you believe, shows that God has enabled you to see the Truth and set you free from the bondage to sin and to death.It is those extras that wayward belivers cast forth as some gunatlet that is pretty much saying that faith in Jesus Christ is not enough.So what does it mean to have faith in Jesus Christ? That by believing in God that He did it, we place our trust in Jesus Christ Our Saviour for eternal life as well as being Our Good Shepherd to lead us and guide us in the way we ought to go. Why save us and reconcile us to God unless we are having a relationship based on trust with Him now? This is how we get to know Him and the power of His resurrection as the just shall live by faith in the Son of God in living this christian life.So what are the extras that places the emphasis and the hope away from Jesus to ourselves? What is it that takes away our resting in Him when we came to Him?Extra #1. "Make a commitment to follow Christ." Why? We are not in a religion, but a relatiosnhip. I am to be a witness of Him by my faith in Him, not by my boasting of the flesh in living this christian life as if it is done by keeping our commitment to follow Him. He will help us live as His. The power in living the christian life is of God and not of us. Do we not trust Him to help us live as His as well as for eternal life? That is all a child can do and they are free to come to Him. The Gospel is that simple.No matter how much the spirit is willing, the flesh is weak therefore what is impossible with man, is possible with God... only by faith in Jesus Christ, trusting Him at His Word. God has made the Covenant saying He will do it. We are justified by faith when we believe He will. This is the only way the religious of the world are to come to Him because not very many mighty men nor nobles are called for they see that as void of any religious pride whatsoever, but our assuarances and our hope are on Christ... not on ourselves... thus our faith stands apart from the religious strivings in the world.Extra #2. "One must seek a sign to know that they are saved. To feel the Holy Ghost or speak in tongues is a sign that the believer is not dead along with that church that speak not in tongues." And yet Jesus said an adulterous generation seeketh after a sign and so no sign shall be given it except the sign of Jonah... that is to say that Jesus was three days and three nights in the earth. The fact that He is risen is proof enough for blessed are they that have not seen, and yet believe.Of all the lies casted towards the believers to have doubts, this is a whopper of a one that declares that faith in Jesus Christ is not enough. Signs are to follow believers; believers are not to follow after signs. Tongues are for a sign for unbelievers; but prophesying are for the believers.Of all things to exalt is this false teaching that "another baptism of the Holy Spirit that comes with evidence of tongues" for it departs from the faith plainly as there is only one baptism of the Holy Spirit and that happens when Jesus has baptized you as promised for coming to and believing in Jesus. Ephesians 1:12-15 & 1 Corinthians 12:13 & Ephsians 4:4-6) The only thing a believer will know about the Holy Spirit personally is that He dwells in us and abides in us forever as the Holy Spirit leads us to honour the Son by testifying of the Son so as to glorify the Son and thereby the Father. (Galatians 3:14,26 & Hebrews 11:1,6) There is a rest for the people of God: (Hebrews 4:1-3,9-11 & Matthew 11:28-30) How we bear witness of the Good News of what Christ has done is important as we must stand apart from the world in their religious strivings that are seeking to obtain righteousness by their merits and thus why many religious christians have doubts.. and from the rudiments found in the world in how they seek after other spirits to receive for they receive them as they see it, but not so for every believer.. John 14:16-17 as those that are born again by the Spirit is like teh wind.. they don't know whence it comes or whiether it goeth.. so is everyone that is born of the Spirit. It is by faith in Jesus that we have received the Spirit of PROMISE.So rest in Jesus when you came to Him. He is Our Assurance of salvation as well as for living this christian life thus the just shall live by faith and not by a religious yoke nor after signs and wonders.Jesus Christ is the Good News to man. He is the Gospel. Anything else is just a thief to cause doubts.
How Do You Know If You Are Saved?
- Thread starter Pariah
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Great postI feel there is one more important thing to add here, and alot of you have probably experienced this and will be nodding your head as you read it. When I first became saved, I thought that Jesus is my saviour and his spirit is within me, life would become so much easier, brighter, and happier etc. Was I wrongthe fact is that once you accept Jesus as your savior, things are going to tougher, a lot tougher. You were stolen from the devil and hes going to come after you. Your going to be experience more temptation, more confusion, and in my experience, I even sinned more. But you have relief, and, not much of a surprise, its that God who saved you a couple days ago. Learn to hang on to him, use him as your strength and your rock. Do everything for his Glory.I cannot stress how important that is, so much christians experience those temptations and they forget about thier savior. He is God, and while you may never be able to win the battle he always will!your brother in christRyan Fitz
Accept jesus and walk in his light not the worlds light, jesus is our savior and the most crucial things that we as people need to do is be in his image and form our behavior like him and act like jesus. We need to let people know out there in the public that we are christians and are proud of it. In other words stand up for jesus and introduce him to more people through our life.
Indeed thats the main thing that we avoid the false traditions of menColossians 2:8 "See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to christ"That's the beginning part of standing up for Christ... But to really stand up for Christ... we must keep on preaching the Truth and avoid the traditions of men.Blessings.
"Extra #2. "One must seek a sign to know that they are saved. To feel the Holy Ghost or speak in tongues is a sign that the believer is not dead along with that church that speak not in tongues."
- And yet Jesus said an adulterous generation seeketh after a sign and so no sign shall be given it except the sign of Jonah... that is to say that Jesus was three days and three nights in the earth."
The sign of Jesus resurrection was specifically only given to believers not evil & adulterous people.
Then in Luke 11:29-30 Jesus says that the preaching of Jonah after he was risen from the fish was the sign.
The sign to unbelievers that Jesus is alive was and is speaking in tongues:
"we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.
And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this? . . . Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear" (Acts 2:11, 12, 33)
- - - -
"The fact that He is risen is proof enough for blessed are they that have not seen, and yet believe."
- You quote from John 20 where the disciples apart from Thomas believed without having to physically touch Jesus.
Those disciples received the Spirit and spoke in tongues, as Jesus says "believers" in Him will. (John 7:39, Mark 16:17) - people that don't aren't believing in (relying on) this Jesus.
- And yet Jesus said an adulterous generation seeketh after a sign and so no sign shall be given it except the sign of Jonah... that is to say that Jesus was three days and three nights in the earth."
The sign of Jesus resurrection was specifically only given to believers not evil & adulterous people.
Then in Luke 11:29-30 Jesus says that the preaching of Jonah after he was risen from the fish was the sign.
The sign to unbelievers that Jesus is alive was and is speaking in tongues:
"we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.
And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this? . . . Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear" (Acts 2:11, 12, 33)
- - - -
"The fact that He is risen is proof enough for blessed are they that have not seen, and yet believe."
- You quote from John 20 where the disciples apart from Thomas believed without having to physically touch Jesus.
Those disciples received the Spirit and spoke in tongues, as Jesus says "believers" in Him will. (John 7:39, Mark 16:17) - people that don't aren't believing in (relying on) this Jesus.
Doubt is sometimes healthy but salvation is not a guess. Those chosen by Jesus will have it made known to them at the appointed time. From that point on the single purpose of the individual is to glorify God. This is done through the imitation of Christ. Imitation meaning that you flee from all sin, live in complete love and all that love means, and that the will of God is above all else in your life and you do not hesitate to obey and carry out his almighty will.
These things are written that ye may know that ye have eternal life. (1 John 5:13)
The Spirit bears witness with our spiirt that we are the children of God. (Romans 8:16)
This is the way to know we are "saved".
A very meaningful verse in relation to being saved is Romans 5:10; "For if we being enemies, were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more we will be saved in His life, having been reconciled. We can see from this verse points out that God's full salvation revealed in this book consists of two sections: one section is the redemption accomplished for us by Christ's death, and the other section is the saving afforded us by Christ's life.
The first four chapters of this book discourse comprehesively regarding the redemption accomplished by Christ's death; whereas the last twelve chapters speak in detail concerning the saving afforded by Christ's life. Before 5:11 Paul shows us that clearly that we are saved because we have been redeemed, justified, and reconciled to God. However, we have not yet been saved to the extent of being sanctified, transformed, and conformed to the image of God's Son.
The Spirit bears witness with our spiirt that we are the children of God. (Romans 8:16)
This is the way to know we are "saved".
A very meaningful verse in relation to being saved is Romans 5:10; "For if we being enemies, were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more we will be saved in His life, having been reconciled. We can see from this verse points out that God's full salvation revealed in this book consists of two sections: one section is the redemption accomplished for us by Christ's death, and the other section is the saving afforded us by Christ's life.
The first four chapters of this book discourse comprehesively regarding the redemption accomplished by Christ's death; whereas the last twelve chapters speak in detail concerning the saving afforded by Christ's life. Before 5:11 Paul shows us that clearly that we are saved because we have been redeemed, justified, and reconciled to God. However, we have not yet been saved to the extent of being sanctified, transformed, and conformed to the image of God's Son.
Rob - many people quote the letters of the New Testament and just assume that they are like the original recipients.rob said:
But, very often they aren't, so they are presuming thengs about themselves that aren't true.
John was there at Pentecost to receive the infilling of God's Spirit, witnessed by the sign of speaking in tongues, and he agreed with Peter who identified this and said it was to all whom God would call.
Similarly Paul knew that people hadn't received the Spirit until they spoke in tongues - Acts 19:5-6, and indeed he refers to tongues when he says:
"ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
The Spirit itself beareth witness . . ." (Rom. 8:15-16, see also Gal.4:6)
Of course it isn't enough to just receive the Spirit, one must choose to live that new life and take correction when you get things wrong.
Tallman
(Romans 8:14-16) For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are the sons of God. For you have not received a spirit of slavery brnging you into fear again, but you have received a spirit of sonship in which we cry, Abba Father! The Spirit Himself "witnesses" with our spirit that we are children of God.
The leading here is not merelyan action of the Spirit. It is the Triune God Himself becoming theleading in our spirit. If we would care for Him as a person whoindwells us, we will be spontaneously led by Him.
The central thought of the book of Romans is that God's salvation makes sinners His sons, who have His life and nature so that they can express Him, that they may become members of Christ to constitute the Body of Christ for His expression. Hence, sonship is stressed in this chapter (vv. 15, 23). Sons here indicates a more advanced stage of growth in the divine life than does children in v. 16, yet not as advanced as heirs in v. 17. Children refers to the initial stage of sonship, the stage of regeneration in the human spirit. Sons are the children of God who are in the stage of the transformation in their souls. They not only have been regenerated in their spirit and are growing in the divine life, but they are living and walking by being led by the Spirit. Heirs are the sons of God who, through the transfiguration of their body in the stage of glorification, will be fully matured in every part of their being. Hence, they will be qualified as the legal heirs to claim the divine inheritance (vv.17,23).
Our regenerated human spirit, mingled with the Spirit of the Son of God is the (spirit of sonship). God's Son is the embodiment of God's divine life (1 Jn. 5:12). Hence the Spirit of God's Son is the Spirit of life (Rom. 8:2). God gives us His Spirit of life because we are His sons. ( Gal. 4:6).
Because our spirit is hidden in our heart (1Pet. 3:4), and because the word here refers to a matter that is related to our feeling and understanding, both of which belong to our heart, this verse says that the Spirit of God's Son was sent into our hearts. This indicates also that the sonship of God is realized by us through our subjective experience in the depth of our being. Paul appealed to such an experience to the Galatian believers for the supporting of his revelation.
We are no longer merely God's creatures, we are His children. Because we have now been born of God and are related to Him in life, it is very normal and sweet for us to call Him "Father". It is not only that the
Spirit witnesses and our spirit witnesses also. Rather, it is that the Spirit witnesses with our spirit. this indicates that our spirit must take the initiative to witness first; then the Spirit will witness with our spirit. This reveals that the Spirit of God today, the all-inclusive Spirit of the Triune God, dwells in our regenerated human spirit and works in our spirit. These two spirits are one; they live together, work together, and exist as one mingled spirit (1 Cor. 6:17) See John 3:6 and 4:24.
(Romans 8:14-16) For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are the sons of God. For you have not received a spirit of slavery brnging you into fear again, but you have received a spirit of sonship in which we cry, Abba Father! The Spirit Himself "witnesses" with our spirit that we are children of God.
The leading here is not merelyan action of the Spirit. It is the Triune God Himself becoming theleading in our spirit. If we would care for Him as a person whoindwells us, we will be spontaneously led by Him.
The central thought of the book of Romans is that God's salvation makes sinners His sons, who have His life and nature so that they can express Him, that they may become members of Christ to constitute the Body of Christ for His expression. Hence, sonship is stressed in this chapter (vv. 15, 23). Sons here indicates a more advanced stage of growth in the divine life than does children in v. 16, yet not as advanced as heirs in v. 17. Children refers to the initial stage of sonship, the stage of regeneration in the human spirit. Sons are the children of God who are in the stage of the transformation in their souls. They not only have been regenerated in their spirit and are growing in the divine life, but they are living and walking by being led by the Spirit. Heirs are the sons of God who, through the transfiguration of their body in the stage of glorification, will be fully matured in every part of their being. Hence, they will be qualified as the legal heirs to claim the divine inheritance (vv.17,23).
Our regenerated human spirit, mingled with the Spirit of the Son of God is the (spirit of sonship). God's Son is the embodiment of God's divine life (1 Jn. 5:12). Hence the Spirit of God's Son is the Spirit of life (Rom. 8:2). God gives us His Spirit of life because we are His sons. ( Gal. 4:6).
Because our spirit is hidden in our heart (1Pet. 3:4), and because the word here refers to a matter that is related to our feeling and understanding, both of which belong to our heart, this verse says that the Spirit of God's Son was sent into our hearts. This indicates also that the sonship of God is realized by us through our subjective experience in the depth of our being. Paul appealed to such an experience to the Galatian believers for the supporting of his revelation.
We are no longer merely God's creatures, we are His children. Because we have now been born of God and are related to Him in life, it is very normal and sweet for us to call Him "Father". It is not only that the
Spirit witnesses and our spirit witnesses also. Rather, it is that the Spirit witnesses with our spirit. this indicates that our spirit must take the initiative to witness first; then the Spirit will witness with our spirit. This reveals that the Spirit of God today, the all-inclusive Spirit of the Triune God, dwells in our regenerated human spirit and works in our spirit. These two spirits are one; they live together, work together, and exist as one mingled spirit (1 Cor. 6:17) See John 3:6 and 4:24.
Many people experience God's leading BEFORE they actually receive His Spirit, i.e. become sons of God, "born again".rob said:
To fulfil the verses you quote one must first have this experience, which is accompanied by speaking in tongues, as detailed in Acts 2:4, 33, 39, 10:44-46, Gal.4:6, John 3:8 and Rom.8:15-16 I believe.
"the heart is deceitful above all things" (Jer. 17:9, Acts 15:8-9) so, God MUST bare independant witness when we are truly saved.
The early church knew precisely when people had or hadn't received salvation by receiving the Spirit.
Nothing has changed.
So Tallman are you saying that for it to be known that we are "saved", one must spek in tongues?
Tallman's quote:
one must first have this experience, which is accompanied by speaking in tongues, as detailed in Acts 2:4, 33, 39, 10:44-46, Gal.4:6, John 3:8 and Rom.8:15-16 I believe.
Tallman's quote:
one must first have this experience, which is accompanied by speaking in tongues, as detailed in Acts 2:4, 33, 39, 10:44-46, Gal.4:6, John 3:8 and Rom.8:15-16 I believe.
I don't claim to know that I am saved I only choose to believe that I am, There are very few things in life that I can say I KNOW but many things I believe and hope for.
I'm pointing out what the scriptures show, it's not about me, I just deliver the unchanging message, unlike many religious teachers which many choose to rely on.rob said:
There are different levels in the salvation experence, tounges may be a level but it is not a requirement. Besides just because someone does not speak in tounges does not mean that person is not baptisted in the spirit. Most people who think they are born again are just justified in the spirit.
Jimmy Engle
New Member
Rob,
There is only one baptism of the Holy Spirit. We all receive the Holy Spirit when we repent and believe in Jesus Christ. Speaking in tongues was a gift given by God during the day of Pentecost where they would speak other languages. However, that is no longer a gift for today. Same thing with the gift of healing and prophesying. Sure God heals people but you don't see or hear about people placing there hands and healing the sick, deaf and blind or casting out demons! Those gifts have ceased! Jesus never said that in order to be saved you had to have the gift of speaking in tongues. He clearly called men to repentance and faith in Him and it's only by doing that they we will be saved.
James. how do you explain the fact that the believers in Jesus in Acts 8:5-16 had not receicved the Spirit, and were known not to have?
Similarly Paul re-baptised people in Acts 19:1-5 because they started believing in the full message ogf Jesus, yet he knew they still hadn't received the Spirit, that's why he prayed for them after baptising them.
The bible says:
"he that speaks in an unknown tongue SPEAKS NOT TO MEN, but to God .. . he edifies himself" (1 Cor. 14:2, 4)
That's why the people that over-heard the tongues at Pentecost were left in doubt and confusion:
Ac:2:12: And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What means this?
:13: Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.
The next verse says how Peter stood up and started speaking *to* the crowd in the commion learned language (Aramaic). Then they understood the gospel and 3000 repented.
The whole notion that tongues was for preaching the gospel to the Jews at Pentecost is nonsense as all the people who over-heard were bi-lingual Jews, so they all spoke Aramaic already.
There was absolutely no need for the disciples to be given a language to speak to them, they already all spoke and understood Aramaic.
Plus, later in Acts, people spoke in tongues even though there was no-one else there except apostles, who obviously didn't need to be preached to!
The idea that healing and prophesying are gone is also contrary to Jesus.
He hasn't changed, he is a priest of the order of Melchizadek, a change in the covenant would require another change in the priesthood.
People still need to be healed and prophesy is here until Christians know even as they are known.
Acts never mentions "the gift of tongues", it is only mentioned in 1 Corinthians 12 & 14 and refers specifically to the use in Christian meetings,
*giving* to the church, of attributes that ALL Christians have for private use.
To use this passage to teach that not all Christians speak in tongues is as rediculous as saying that only some have faith,
knowledge and the other attributes listed with tongues.
Most "church-goers" are utterly confused and mis-led about "the gifts of the Spirit, they have never been to a meeting where
things are done as God "commands" in 1 Cor. 14, because they are not in a church like Jesus set up in Acts where all members
have received the infilkling of his Spirit, with the necessary prayer language.
Miss Hepburn
Well-Known Member
This may be a diversion from the question or maybe not ---but I sure know I'm "loved" --- it is
amazing how many times the Lord
saves me from some sort of disaster ---LOL
,usually that would involve an insurance company .
I'm cracking up -it's so true everyday!!
Miss Hepburn
amazing how many times the Lord
saves me from some sort of disaster ---LOL
,usually that would involve an insurance company .I'm cracking up -it's so true everyday!!
Miss Hepburn
Jimmy Engle
New Member
I am not going to get into a debate with you because no matter what I say it will not change anything. I will answer your questions as to be fair.
The reason why the believers who repented and believed in Jesus were not yet baptized with the holy spirit was because Jesus was still on Earth. It wasn't until the day of Pentecost that the out pouring of the spirit occurred. That is why today when people repent and believe the holy spirit takes that corrupt man and changes him according to the doctrine of regeneration.
Jesus also taught that the gifts that were used in the early churches would cease during the last generation which we are currently in. No signs will be given for this generation which is why speaking in tongues has ceased. Babble is not tongues. To even suggest that speaking in tongues is necessary in order to have the holy spirit is ridiculous.
Let me ask you some questions...
Do you believe in the Gospel, the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ and that He is the Son of God? Do you believe that Christ will keep his promises that he has made? Do you believe that Jesus is the way and the truth and the life and no one can come to the Father but through Him? Brother, if you answer yes to these things then I am glad to call you a fellow brother in Christ! I will not allow small differences or misinterpretations to divide these truths. God bless.
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