Who Agrees With This ?

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musicworld

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Hi to all ChristiansI found this post on a another section of the forum and after reading it was quite incensed by what the user had said. I thought I'd place it here for you to comment on.
post by josiahdefender: Here's the way if works. God saves by his own Election. He choses whom he will save, he then sends the Spirit of God to preach to them by preachers, friends etc, using the word of God to bring the truth of God the incorruptable seed..and plant it in his heart. God regenerates the sinner and the sinner calls upon Jesus Christ in faith and repentance. God then adopts and justifies, he begins to live out his life as a child of God
That is an absolute preposterous statement where in your right mind did you find such a belief ? If what you've implied was to be true which it is most HOLY not then where does FREE WILL come in to it. Dear brother GOD put us on this earth to make that decision for our self’s not him for us. The correct answer to your false statement is that salvation is in our own hands, we will SAVE our self’s by independent work the repentance of our sins having faith in Christ and doing the will of GOD. It’s called reconciliation with your maker.If GOD was to choose who he wanted to be saved then this whole existence is a waist of time.
 

Jordan

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God can not interfere with Free Will. We are all given a choice to follow God or men even after being a Christian. (John 14:15) Can God make a decision for us? The answer is a complete NO! God wants ALL of his children to be saved. (II Peter 3:9, Matthew 9:13, Mark 2:17, Luke 3:3) Good works and evil works can not save us. (Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 11:6) Only putting our Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. To do that we have to follow God's.Again, it is our choice whether we want God and to follow Him in His Words (to be saved) or we can follow men (and not be saved). Our choice to make that decision, not God.
 

Pariah

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Hi to all ChristiansI found this post on a another section of the forum and after reading it was quite incensed by what the user had said. I thought I'd place it here for you to comment on.post by josiahdefender: Here's the way if works. God saves by his own Election. He choses whom he will save, he then sends the Spirit of God to preach to them by preachers, friends etc, using the word of God to bring the truth of God the incorruptable seed..and plant it in his heart. God regenerates the sinner and the sinner calls upon Jesus Christ in faith and repentance. God then adopts and justifies, he begins to live out his life as a child of God** end of quoteThat is an absolute preposterous statement where in your right mind did you find such a belief ? If what you've implied was to be true which it is most HOLY not then where does FREE WILL come in to it.
John 6:43Jesus therefore answered and said unto them, Murmur not among yourselves. 44No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. 45It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me. 46Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father. 47Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.From your standpoint, verse 45 applies, but it is not the whole truth as of verse 44 which applies to what josiahdefender stated.Ask yourself why those that do not come to Jesus.John 3:17For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. 21But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.Those that do not want to have their evil deeds reproved will not come to the Light. Those that seek God, will by the Father be drawn unto the Son. To edify further by His grace of what you are saying is not the complete truth...the disciples were commissioned to preach the Gospel everywhere, right? And yet...Acts 16: 6Now when they had gone throughout Phrygia and the region of Galatia, and were forbidden of the Holy Ghost to preach the word in Asia, 7After they were come to Mysia, they assayed to go into Bithynia: but the Spirit suffered them not. 8And they passing by Mysia came down to Troas. 9And a vision appeared to Paul in the night; There stood a man of Macedonia, and prayed him, saying, Come over into Macedonia, and help us. 10And after he had seen the vision, immediately we endeavoured to go into Macedonia, assuredly gathering that the Lord had called us for to preach the gospel unto them. So what had happened? God knew that at that time, no one in Asia nor Mysia would receive the Gospel for no one was seeking Him, but God knew whom was in Macedonia. This is a comfort knowing that God knows all those that seek Him as He will make sure they get the Gospel to believe. He is the One at work. Those that seek Him need Him to draw them unto the Son so that they may see the truth and the truth may set them free. We as servants of the Lord cannot boasts of saving anyone for it is God that causes the increase.1 Corinthians 3: 5Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man? 6I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase. 7So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.So if God draws all men unto the Son to open their eyes and ears and soften their hearts to believe, where does free will enter into making that choice to save oneself by believing? Consider these verses below:John 1: 12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.So where does free choice enters into? I see it in those that prefer their evil deeds rather than come to the Light, but God does not need to waste time on those that seek Him not. Those that seek Him God knows, but the believing part is by His grace as well as salvation is by the grace of God.Deuteronomy 29:3The great temptations which thine eyes have seen, the signs, and those great miracles: 4Yet the LORD hath not given you an heart to perceive, and eyes to see, and ears to hear, unto this day. 5And I have led you forty years in the wilderness: your clothes are not waxen old upon you, and thy shoe is not waxen old upon thy foot.That was even unto God's chosen people.Job 13:1Lo, mine eye hath seen all this, mine ear hath heard and understood it. 2What ye know, the same do I know also: I am not inferior unto you. 3Surely I would speak to the Almighty, and I desire to reason with God.Job 42:4Hear, I beseech thee, and I will speak: I will demand of thee, and declare thou unto me. 5I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee. 6Wherefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes.Even Job realizes that he is where he is in his relationship of God because of God.Psalm 94: 8Understand, ye brutish among the people: and ye fools, when will ye be wise? 9He that planted the ear, shall he not hear? he that formed the eye, shall he not see? 10He that chastiseth the heathen, shall not he correct? he that teacheth man knowledge, shall not he know?Proverbs 20:11Even a child is known by his doings, whether his work be pure, and whether it be right. 12The hearing ear, and the seeing eye, the LORD hath made even both of them.God can keep those from hearing and seeing the truth.Isaiah 6: 9And he said, Go, and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not. 10Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed. 11Then said I, Lord, how long? And he answered, Until the cities be wasted without inhabitant, and the houses without man, and the land be utterly desolate,And we can see how God can use anyone to serve Him.Isaiah 32:2And a man shall be as an hiding place from the wind, and a covert from the tempest; as rivers of water in a dry place, as the shadow of a great rock in a weary land. 3And the eyes of them that see shall not be dim, and the ears of them that hear shall hearken. 4The heart also of the rash shall understand knowledge, and the tongue of the stammerers shall be ready to speak plainly.So this all leads to God foreknowing those that seek Him and those that prefer their evil deeds over coming to the Light and so why would God open their eyes and ears to believe by drawing them unto the Son?Romans 9:11(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;) 12It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger. 13As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. 14What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid. 15For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. 16So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. 17For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth. 18Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth. 19Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? 20Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? 21Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? 22What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: 23And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, 24Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles? 25As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved. 26And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.
Dear brother GOD put us on this earth to make that decision for our self’s not him for us. The correct answer to your false statement is that salvation is in our own hands, we will SAVE our self’s by independent work the repentance of our sins having faith in Christ and doing the will of GOD. It’s called reconciliation with your maker.If GOD was to choose who he wanted to be saved then this whole existence is a waist of time.
Salvation is not surely not in our hands. The fact that you believe shows you have been bought witha rpice and sealed with that Spirit of promise. God doesn't save anyone in vain. Only one was lost as prophesied, but that was before His crucifixion.John 6:38For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. 39And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. 40And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.Ephesians 2: 8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.Matthew 20: 8So when even was come, the lord of the vineyard saith unto his steward, Call the labourers, and give them their hire, beginning from the last unto the first. 9And when they came that were hired about the eleventh hour, they received every man a penny. 10But when the first came, they supposed that they should have received more; and they likewise received every man a penny. 11And when they had received it, they murmured against the goodman of the house, 12Saying, These last have wrought but one hour, and thou hast made them equal unto us, which have borne the burden and heat of the day. 13But he answered one of them, and said, Friend, I do thee no wrong: didst not thou agree with me for a penny? 14Take that thine is, and go thy way: I will give unto this last, even as unto thee. 15Is it not lawful for me to do what I will with mine own? Is thine eye evil, because I am good? 16So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen.So salvation is the same for all those that believed.. from the newbie to those that have been a christian all their lives.Titus 3: 4But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, 5Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; 6Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; 7That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. 8This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.So salvation is a free gift as He has enbale us to receive Him, and so living the christian life by faith in the Son of God as well as serving Him is also by the grace of God and not done by the will of men nor the flesh so that the just shall live by faith.Galatians 2:20I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.Galatians 3: 1O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? 2This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? 4Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain. 5He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 6Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. 7Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham..... 14That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.....26For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.So we are not the one saving ourselves for that glory belongs to Jesus Christ the Lord, Our Saviour.1 Corinthians 1: 29That no flesh should glory in his presence. 30But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: 31That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.1 John 3:3And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.Jude 1: 24Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, 25To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.
God can not interfere with Free Will. We are all given a choice to follow God or men even after being a Christian. (John 14:15) Can God make a decision for us? The answer is a complete NO! God wants ALL of his children to be saved. (II Peter 3:9, Matthew 9:13, Mark 2:17, Luke 3:3) Good works and evil works can not save us. (Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 11:6) Only putting our Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. To do that we have to follow God's.Again, it is our choice whether we want God and to follow Him in His Words (to be saved) or we can follow men (and not be saved). Our choice to make that decision, not God.
What I have posted above by His grace would defer greatly from what you have stated. If sin seperated us from God, then God is the only One that can draw us unto the Son and cause the increase for our eyes and ears to believe to be saved.
 

gumby

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God gave us free will for a reason, basically it boils down to two people. The people who accept jesus and the people who dont.
 

Jordan

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God gave us free will for a reason, basically it boils down to two people. The people who accept jesus and the people who dont.
That is 100% correct, however, we can never rule out people that never heard the gospel at all. (John 14:15)
 

gumby

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That is 100% correct, however, we can never rule out people that never heard the gospel at all. (John 14:15)
Yes well for those people who havnt heard the word i will gladly plant the seed, that is if there receptive and open.
 

Jimmy Engle

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I once heard that it's like this....Jesus won't just make himself a presence in your life by kicking in the door and just inviting himself in. Our hearts are made of stone so we are blind to the word of god. But once we are born again or made into a new creature our hearts become hearts of flesh that can see and hear the gospel of our lord. So in other words, he isn't going to kick in the door, or plant a seed, or change your life. Jesus is going to knock on that door and wait to see if you open it. It's up to any given individual as to whether they should let Jesus enter or not. But once you do open that door, Jesus will become a presence in your life and the holy spirit will change you and you will start to hate the things you loved and love the things you hated. We are all born God hating and wicked. One example I like to think of is of a little baby. Your holding a baby in your arms and it sees a shiny ring on your finger. The baby not having any sense of right and wrong will go to grab it. Your reaction will be to pull the baby's hands away and tell it no. The baby will try to keep taking the ring and you will keep telling it no. The baby will get upset because it won't get what it wants and will start to cry and flail in your arms and keep going after that ring. Now imagine if that baby was changed from what it was into a young man in an instant. He would tear you apart and even kill you to get that ring. The reason why is because we are simply born evil and hate anything that is holy. Most people want to go to heaven but as Paul Washer once pointed out...they just don't want God to be around when they get there. But the point of all of this is that if God chose to save you instead of you choosing to be saved by him instead then there wouldn't be any wickedness in people because we would all be saved right? See my point?
 

musicworld

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Post by Jordan: God can not interfere with Free Will. We are all given a choice to follow God or men even after being a Christian. Can God make a decision for us? The answer is a complete NO! God wants ALL of his children to be saved. Good works and evil works can not save us. Only putting our Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. To do that we have to follow God's.Again, it is our choice whether we want God and to follow Him in His Words (to be saved) or we can follow men (and not be saved). Our choice to make that decision, not God.
Thanks for your comment Jordan, this is correct.
Post by gumby: God gave us free will for a reason, basically it boils down to two people. The people who accept jesus and the people who dont.
Thanks for your comment gumby, this is also correct.
Post by Pariah: Salvation is not surely not in our hands. The fact that you believe shows you have been bought with a price and sealed with that Spirit of promise. God doesn't save anyone in vain. Only one was lost as prophesied, but that was before His crucifixion.
What exactly do you mean by this Pariah ? please explain in simple terms.
Post by Jimmy: Jesus won't just make himself a presence in your life by kicking in the door and just inviting himself in. Our hearts are made of stone so we are blind to the word of god. But once we are born again or made into a new creature our hearts become hearts of flesh that can see and hear the gospel of our lord. So in other words, he isn't going to kick in the door, or plant a seed, or change your life. Jesus is going to knock on that door and wait to see if you open it. It's up to any given individual as to whether they should let Jesus enter or not. But once you do open that door, Jesus will become a presence in your life and the holy spirit will change you and you will start to hate the things you loved and love the things you hated.
Hi Jimmy, great explanation to define free will. Thanks for your comment.
 

Copper25

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ephesians 14) According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: 5) Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, 6) To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.Truly those whom God has elected will be brought to true repentance.Truth, none whom are not the elect of God will ever be brought to true repentanceTruth, Jesus Chose us, we did not choose Him. 1 John 4:19) We love him, because he first loved us.john 15:16) Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.Frankly, why do you think that many and I mean many people confess Jesus as their Lord, but they are truly unregenerated?The yes of the mouth by man, but the yes of a heart is from God.All you got to do to understand this is ponder on these two versesGenesis 6:5) And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.Jeremiah 17:9) The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?Now tell me, you think a heart like this on its own is going to run after the ways of God?Salvation is not based on a man's decision, otherwise that would mean that in the world, we would have over a billion people saved: but we know from scripture that majority or many confessing Jesus with their lips are the same people who end up in hell because they were never ever saved.Matthew 713) Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 14) Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.21) Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22) Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23) And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.So apparently, a man saying yes or decisionism is not what saves a person, nay God has to draw, God has to rebirth the spirit and heart. Plainly put, I man CANNOT make his own heart say yes.
 

Jordan

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But God DID give us a decision to follow Christ or men, and that is scriptural. (John 14:15, Matthew 10:37,38,39, Matthew 16:24) And not everybody is predestined.
 

Copper25

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I never said everone is predestined, but specifically those whom God has predestined will go to heaven and have eternal life. Frankly once again Jordon, consider this, that the yes of the mouth may be of man, but the yes of the heart is of God.Do you really think that unless God DRAWS a person, that that person will every truly come to God regaurdless of what their mouth claims? Nojohn 6:44) No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. Fankly Jordan, have you ever consider why their are around 1 billion confessing (or claiming christians), yet certainly not all of them are truly saved and born again? again, The following talks about how out of how many people claiming to be Jesus' disciples, that FEW are Jesus' true disciples.
Matthew 713) Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 14) Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.21) Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22) Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23) And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.So apparently, a man saying yes or decisionism is not what saves a person, nay God has to draw, God has to rebirth the spirit and heart. Plainly put, a man CANNOT make his own heart say yes.
conclusion = God has to draw a person to true repentance. A man saying yes with his mouth means nothing because many do that and still are on the road to hell. Truth, even our faith, the faith which you and I have is a gift from God in the first place. Ephesians 2:8) For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God. Jordan, even our faith in God, in Jesus Christ was a gift from God: so from this we can conclude that God's working in us is the reason why we would ever draw near to seek Him. Thus futher concludes that salvation is still started by God's working and NOT a man's decision.
 

musicworld

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Truth, even our faith, the faith which you and I have is a gift from God in the first place, Thus futher concludes that salvation is still started by God's working and NOT a man's decision.
Copper, hit the nail on the head, are you saying that GOD chooses who will and won't be saved? No paragraphs just a simple answer.
 

Jordan

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I can give scripture support but for now simply my answer is yes
With all due respect, that answer is absolutely incorrect, heresy and completely unbiblical.Matthew 9:13 - But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.Mark 2:17 - When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.Luke 5:32 - I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.---------------------------------------John 3:16 - For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.John 3:17 - For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.John 14:15 - If ye love me, keep my commandments.---------------------------------------John 4:42 - And said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world.I John 4:14 - And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.I Timothy 4:10 - For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.II Peter 3:9 - The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
 

Copper25

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O Jordon, have you not realized that God has all soveriegnty? I never said that God didn't want all sinners to be saved.ezekiel 18:23) Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord GOD: and not that he should return from his ways, and live?But Jordan, look at scripture, God chooses who gets saved. Have you not read Ephesians 1:5) Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will.Christ indeed did die for all, I never said he didn't.but Jordan, please I ask of you to look at Ephesians 2:8) For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God2 Timothy 2:25) In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truthagainJohn 15:16) Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.Truly truly I say unto you that Christ died for sins of the whole world, for you and for me, but unless God according to Ephesians 2:8 had given us faith in the first place we would never have been saved. Truly truly man because of His wicked nature, naturally will never want to come to God submitting to His ways. Why?1 Corinthians 2:14)But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.Over a billion confessing Christians, but many have said yes with their lips, but their heart has not said yes. Why?Ezekiel 36:26) A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.God has to make the heart say yes by the working and regenerating power of the Holy Spirt, else no man would ever come to true repentance.
 

Christina

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There are two different types of Believers and one must understand this to get this straight ... Its the failure to understand there are two types that leads to the confusion on this topic... There are the Elect ...they are fore-chosen by God chosen before they were born of flesh to do certain things that are predestined by God ... We might think of Paul here ..He was born Saul and his job was to persecute Christians .. But God had fore-chosen him he was an Elect chosen/predestined to do a job that was Gods will ...He wasn't chosen for his good deeds ..he persecuted Christians ...He had been chosen before hand predestined ... Because God knew his soul/spirit..... So he became a great apostle though he first resisted God it was no use he was predestined... Those that are not of the Elect have free will to chose to follow God or not ... those that do and succeed that is make it to the end become the over comers join with the Elect and are of the first resurrected .. the reward is the same for the over comers and the Elect ... but the Elect are predestined to do a thing ... People of certain believes like Calvinism(the original post) think only the Elect are saved and no matter how hard one tries if you were not predestined you are lost no matter what you do ....obviously a false doctrine .... Others refuse to believe there is an Elect ... also a false doctrine ... People get confused because certain verse are only addressing the Elect ..Not everyone For example its only the Elect who can commit the unforgivable sin ...All others are forgiven all forms of blasphemy.... but the Elect will receive eternal damnation if they do this ... they are held to a higher standard...
 

musicworld

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For example its only the Elect who can commit the unforgivable sin ...All others are forgiven all forms of blasphemy.... but the Elect will receive eternal damnation if they do this ... they are held to a higher standard...
Excellent Christina you've enlightened me, I’ve been looking for that answer for some time now. However what did you mean by the last paragraph.
 

musicworld

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Apr 1, 2009
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I completely agree with Jordan on this, and Christina hit the nail on the head. Copper you quoteEphesians 2:8) For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of GodBut here it saysRomans 10:17) consequently faith comes from hearing the message and the message is heard through the word of Christ.MEANING we are of FREE WILL to either ACCEPT that message or to REJECT it hence faith is not a gift it is something you acquire by believing. And once having obtained faith by believing we then enroll in doing good deeds for it is said, faith without deeds is dead. Then having done good deeds GOD then accredits that to us as righteousness. So faith is not a gift, faith is something you acquire by believing, rather righteousness is a gift that GOD gives us by doing good deeds in the name of faith.The point of the matter is if we accept the word, we believe, if we believe we then have faith, and it’s by that faith that we have chosen the road to GOD and not the road to Satan.MEANING we have made that independent DECISION to SAVE ourselves, hallelujah Amen.
 

n2thelight

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Dec 24, 2006
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Great post Chris and that's why it's important to know that there was age before this one,God did'nt just flip a coin and decide who was going to be one of His elect,He made that choice for a reason and the reason came from what we did,in that age.
 

For Life

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Feb 24, 2007
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There are two different types of Believers and one must understand this to get this straight ... Its the failure to understand there are two types that leads to the confusion on this topic... There are the Elect ...they are fore-chosen by God chosen before they were born of flesh to do certain things that are predestined by God ... Those that are not of the Elect have free will to chose to follow God or not ... those that do and succeed that is make it to the end become the over comers join with the Elect and are of the first resurrected .. the reward is the same for the over comers and the Elect ... but the Elect are predestined to do a thing ... For example its only the Elect who can commit the unforgivable sin ...All others are forgiven all forms of blasphemy.... but the Elect will receive eternal damnation if they do this ... they are held to a higher standard...
Do you have bible verses to support this? I haven't read that there are two different types of believers and I wonder why I missed it...