With all due respect For Life, do you in return have scriptures to support that everybody is an Elect?
Who Agrees With This ?
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That's it? Ephesians 2:8 does not say everybody is an elect, it only says We are saved by grace.
Christina said
Copper25 says Franky, and look up what I say for yourself, you are ether saved or you are not saved. There is no "two types of believers"Is the Church of Christ divided? You error Christina! And greatly at that! Christina said
Copper25 says You can't show me a scripture that holds this false teaching up. Give me one scripture Christina to support this.I tell you truly that unless God moves upon a person's heart, they WILL NEVER come to the truth PERIOD.as it is written (john 6:44) "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day."1) ONLY those drawn by the Father will come to Christ.2) ONLY those drawn by the Father will be raised from the dead.Only by the Father's drawing will anyone ever come to the purity of the truth and will be saved.Now another thing to address is this, not everyone is the elect!I can prove this with many sciptureMatthew 713) Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 14) Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.Again2 Thessalonians 2 8) And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:9) Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10) And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11) And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12) That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.Wow, that "all people are the elect" theory is blown out the window and cut apart by the sharp word of the scripture!
You asked for a bible verse and I gave it.Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: It says much more than "only" we are saved by grace. It says we are saved by grace through faith and that it is not of us but from GOD. That means God gives it to us. That means we must be the elect to receive this gift.But I don't care about arguing with you over what this verse means or whether it means something else to you. I asked a simple, direct question and if you don't know the answer to it then just say I don't know. There is no shame in that. I do it all the time. I don't know lots of things and that's why I ask questions.
How many do you want its you who fail to understand for life.... I never said anything about a church divided those are your Words I said God has predestined fore chosen some to do a thing ... To bring about his will his plan .. Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if [it were] possible, they shall deceive the very elect. Mar 13:20 And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days. Luk 18:7 And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them? Tts 1:1 Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness; 1Pe 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied
I do have a short study on this if you are interested http://biblestudy.madmooseforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=37
Last Paragraph " are you talking the verse's in my signature (Amos 8:11) if so its just that part of my signature not part of my reply
I do have a short study on this if you are interested http://biblestudy.madmooseforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=37If we live lawlessly and refuse to be held accountable for our own actions, we merely prove to all that we are not part of God’s “barley” remnant. If we refuse to be obedient and submit to the divine will, we prove that we will not receive immortality in the first resurrection, but must await a later resurrection.It really comes down to the old adage of “which came first, the chicken or the egg?” Is a man lawless because God blinded his eyes? Or did God blind his eyes because he was lawless? Men may debate the issue, but in the end, it does not matter. If your eyes are blinded, and if you refuse to submit to Christ and His law, then it is self-evident that you are not one of the remnant that will inherit the first resurrection.Is this the reward that you desire? Then so be it. Be it far from me to try to change your heart. I am not the Holy Spirit and cannot do His job. But if it is in your heart to be an overcomer of the remnant company, the barley company, then He will put it in your heart to be obedient. The tree is known by its fruit (Matt. 7:20).Fatalism is an unbalanced view of God’s sovereignty. The main symptom of fatalism is using God’s sovereignty as an excuse for sin or for doing nothing at all. Don’t make excuses for bad behavior. Blaming God’s sovereign will for your sins will not reduce your liability at the great white throne. God has already taken responsibility on His level by ensuring the salvation of all men at the final Jubilee. If you are content to receive your gift of immortality at the end of time, then it is apparent to all that He has not called you to be an overcomer that will inherit life at the first resurrection.But if God has enlightened the eyes of your understanding and made you His obedient servant, you are proven to be on the path of the overcomer. I encourage you to work out your own salvation with fear and trembling (Phil. 2:12).Recognize God’s sovereignty, but live as if you have total free will. Recognize that your authority is limited, and that you can do little to change your heart, but pray that God will lead you into whatever circumstances are necessary to show you truth, to overthrow every idol in your heart, and to teach you the art of obedience. Then be vigilant to respond to all that the Lord brings your way. This is the path of life.Logabe
2 Timothy 2: 19Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. 20But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work. 22Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart.Verse 10 below is often misunderstood since it goes on to that faithful saying. When in context with that faithful saying, the barley group.. the elect... are those that are obtaining eternal glory with salvation in Jesus Christ... not just obtaining salvation in Jesus Christ.2 Timothy 2:10Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory. 11It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him: 12If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: 13If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself. 14Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers. 15Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.So who wants to be a vessel unto dishonour in light of eternity? Not me. So I trust Jesus to keep me from falling and to present me faultless which is to His glory. Amen.
These are your words, and you are correct, it has led to my confusion.
Just one, I guess. And I am failing to understand. I especially don't know how you would say there are two different types of believers but then say you didn't. Are there two or more people using your same account?? You have helped me to understand lots of things that I did not understand before. I was hoping that you would help here too. If you are unable I apologize for placing the burden of expectation upon you...
Its the same as the Apostles they were chosen (predestined) to become the Apostles but they are not separate from believers/they just had a differnt destiny that not of their chosing by their own free will .. they were just Pre- chosen to do certain things to spread the Word of God ..Moses was an Elect Born (predestined)to do a certain thing that would accomplish Gods plan. There are Elect today as scripture tells us ...And God will call them up when the time is appointed and the job needs to be accomplished. The Elect dont necessarily know they are Elect ...as in the case of Paul/Saul he had no idea when he was running around persecuting Christians he was of the the Elect (those predestined by God ) Nor did the Apostles who were just fisherman they didnt know until called them up that they were of the Elect (predestined to become fishers of men). Hopes this helps you put my meaning in perspective
Ah, I see what happened. You mixed up my post and copper25's. I never said anything about a church divided, that was copper25.So you are saying that the elect are just the super-important people in God's plan? Like Moses, the Apostles and now maybe people like Jimmy Swaggart and Joel Olsteen? I thought that because faith is also a gift given from God that everyone with this faith is the elect. I think I understand your point of view but I don't know that I agree with it.
I would not elevate any man today as being of the elect that has been accepted in the world's media.The elect are the chosen for the marriage supper of the Lamb as those believers obtaining eternal glory with salvation in Christ Jesus as vessels unto honour. God will have chosen them. Keeping the faith till His appearing is how one is trusting Jesus in keeping them from falling and to present them faultless to His glory to be His elect.Many are called but few are chosen is the reason why many wayward believers will be left behind to go through the great tribulation as vessels unto dishonour as both vessels are of God's House. This is why the rapture is before the great tribulation for that is when judgment must fall on the House of God first. This is the dividing point for the House of God that Jesus warned about.As Jesus taught excommunication, then so will judgment must fall on the House of God first. Even Paul likened excommunication as delivering such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh. How is that not symbolic of the rapture before the great tribulation for those not watching, not ready, and not found abiding in Him?1 Corinthians 5: 1It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife. 2And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you. 3For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed, 4In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, 5To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. 6Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump? 7Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us: 8Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth. 9I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators: 10Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world. 11But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat. 12For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within? 13But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.So as Paul declared above, so will Christ do to His body of believers, thus the necessity of the rapture before the great tribulation and why the works of the saints followed them into the earth when they were slain, but they will not love their livges even unto death for His appearing would have restored them to the path of righteousness for His name's sake to finally stand apart from the world in its spiritual rudiment, in its religious rudiment, and in its sinful living so that they may be witnesses of Him and His workmanship as all that extra stuff will be pruned away from them so thay may be partakers of His holiness.
Well I dont know that I would say more important... as the Elect and all overcomers receieve the same reward that of being the first resurected ... But God has what we might call generals in his army to lead the way anyone can become an overcomer however not everyone is chosen to lead the way .... I do agree with Pariah on the point that we can not give any man that title of Elect today as we do not who the Elect are until they are called to do their predestined job. And that must be defined by God alone a prefered preacher is not nessarity an Elect.. however they may be an overcomer ..The differance being ..The Elect do not chose this of their own free will ..but are selected before they are Born(predestined) for this one destiny ... Example : We are told time is shortened for the sake of the Elect ... It is the Elect who will be put on trial by Antichrist in Mark 13 and they are told not to premeditate what they will say as God will speak through them (this will be as it was on Penecost day) All will hear and understand Gods Words through the mouths of the Elect. Its this testimony by the Elect that will turn the hearts of many back to the Father (s).. Its these kind of miracles like those that occured to Moses,Paul,Enoch ect.in the past and future its God speaking through these Elect .. That distingish the Elect the generals if you will from the troops (church)P.S.Sorry I confused posters
Hi Christina Not confused.. on the contrary.. I find your answers to questions asked nicely defined and easy to understand. thanks for the response concerning the Unforgivable Sin which I understud clearly, I joined the forum from the link you gave, thanks.God BlessMw.
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