Does the Holy Spirit prevent wicked from being revealed¿

Waiting on him said:

The Spirit convinces him of sin, it's clearly an indisputable work of God. I recall when I was on the throne, and had my head removed ( dethroned) this is what the husbandman does He comes along and removes the branches that are living only for self and cast them in the fire, but what abides in Christ produces the fruit of the spirit

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Hi Waiting,

This i understand, but I'm not sure how that applies to the 'man of sin' no longer being restrained..

Are you saying that the HS allows the old man to demonstrate just how utterly wretched we are that we might ultimately reject him? Because that I can relate too... i am an unclean man with unclean lips, and the good i wish to do i do not, and that which i hate, i do. Who can save me from this body of death..

Lord Jesus, for the sake of Your sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world!

Philip James said:

Hi 101G,

I was trying to follow your posts here and i think i may have misunderstood you..
Are you saying that the 'old man' is that which restrains 'the man of sin' from being revealed?
Not sure that makes much sense to me.. Is it not rather the new man that restrains the evil of the old man?
I'm not really sure what you are trying to say here. Can you clarify?

Peace!

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first thanks for the reply, no, you the person the spirit man, who is BORN AGAIN, who prevents the old man/flesh the man of sin from defiling the Temple of God, and the Spirit is here to help those who are weak. see Matthew 26:41.

thanks again for the post.

PICJAG.

Timtofly said:

If the new man is of the Holy Spirit, and the old man is of Satan, then basically it is the Holy Spirit restraining Satan the man of lawlessness.

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the Spirit is here to "help" us while we're in these flesh bodies. hence the "fight" of Faith.

PICJAG.

for those who don't know, or understand, hate to be the bearer of good new to you, but the war is over, and the battle is with your flesh. it don’t know that the war is over and neither do some of us. for we as new born babes are subject to the temptation that the evil one deceive us on, or mislead us into sin.

if the Holy Spirit restrain why then do we need an advocate? 1 John 2:1 "My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
1 John 2:2 "And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world." so, if the Holy Spirit is the restrainer, are you saying that God is NOT DOING A GOOD JOB? for if it was then there is no need for an advocate.

scripture, 2 Peter 1:4 "Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust”.

but, because of these false teacher, and many of christian, whom many still have an itching ear to hear, 2 Peter 2:18 "For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.
2 Peter 2:19 "While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.
2 Peter 2:20 "For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
2 Peter 2:21 "For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
2 Peter 2:22 "But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.


for he has already overcome the world, but apparently , while still in these flesh bodies we suffer the consequence of our actions. as long as we’re still in these flesh bodies, (no cast away, but corrected), we can overcome the evil one with the help of the Holy Spirit who lives inside of us, but as I always said, "AS THE HELPER, HE ONLY HELPS, AND IF ONE IS NOT DOING ANTHING THEN THE HELPER HAS NOTHING TO DO". for the helper don't do it for you, but will help YOU in what you're doing. so if you're not resesting the evil one, he has nothing to do, or help YOU, but as one poster states correctly, "ye have not because we ask not, but ask amiss". but when one comes into the knowledge of the truth no deception nor evil weapon form against thee shall prosper.

PICJAG.

Waiting on him said:

...upon reading 2 Thessalonians 2:7 God made me aware the he was in fact the old me, and needed to be taken out of the way, because he sat on the throne and apposed God.

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So the Restrainer is our 'Old Man' that needs to be taken out of the way?

That's an interesting concept and all, but this verse shows the Man of Sin as One who is coming in the future...

2 Thessalonians 2:9
"Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders"

I read that as Prophecy that has yet to be fulfilled. In addition, I wouldn't exactly say any of us here can admit to having 'All Power' and have been able to produce 'Signs' and 'Lying Wonders'.

Well, at least those of us that aren't narcissists.

One of the reasons I don't believe that the Restrainer is the Holy Ghost is because in the Last Days, God will be *pouring out* His Spirit and not taking it out of the way...

Acts 2:17
"And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams"

So what was Restraining before the Holy Ghost was sent to Earth?

John 14:26
"But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you"

Note that the Holy Ghost already has a 'nickname' called the Comforter, not Restrainer.

Heart2Soul said:

another oneView attachment 9160

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Huh. How very interesting, thank you! I had only the other day come across reference to a bible that lists things chronologically...not sure I'd come across them before that. Can you imagine how big a job it must have been, wading through all the scriptures and then listing them all in order?!

Naomi25 said:

And behold, the curtain of the temple was torn in two, from top to bottom. And the earth shook, and the rocks were split. The tombs also were opened. And many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised, and coming out of the tombs after his resurrection they went into the holy city and appeared to many. -Matthew 27:51–53

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@Naomi25 I guess it really showed just how pivotal a series of events that the death, burial and glorious resurrection of the Lord Jesus indeed were.

VictoryinJesus said:

No biblical zombies. He said arise to those who sleep, raise from the dead and Christ will give you light. The tombs also were opened. And many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised, and coming out of the tombs after his resurrection they went into the holy city and appeared to many. -Matthew 27:51–53

Does this verse stand alone or harmonize with the whole of the word. Not saying it didn’t happen but you said we take it on faith that it happened as God said it happened. Same as by Faith ...the stone is rolled away from the tomb, having passed from death into Life. Even the “and appeared to many” with Paul constantly saying they had been manifested before them in all things. Even at “Easter” the tomb was opened and He arose from death... and many afterward saw Him is celebrated. Does the word not support and testify elsewhere —the whole counsel of God—-to make “through Faith” one believe it is and was possible not zombies came out but those made alive, brought into life after His resurrection?

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Ok, firstly, I was not actually saying brain-eating zombies...it was a joke...the dead walking. Sorry if that threw things off track.
However, I think, apart from that, you may have missed my point (or else I'm missing yours, which is always possible). Christian belief rests on faith, of course, even that Christ rose from death and that we accept the biblical account of it.
But that is not really what we are speaking of here. What we are speaking of is specific things in scripture being referred to in enough places to be able to place a finger on what it means. Sure we know Christ rose from the dead...but we have multiple verses that speak of this...indeed, it is the basis of our salvational hope and one of our main doctrines, so it has plenty of verses that we have built that doctrine upon. We can even say that the bible speaks of a resurrection of the dead...but consistently those verses point to that time being at Christ's return. So, unless we're looking at the particular miracles of Christ, when he bought people back from the dead, we have no other verses that speak of the dead walking before Christ's second coming. Matt 27 is, really, an anomaly. And we are asked to accept it, that it happened on this most stupendous of days. And so we shall.
But scripture is likewise filled with such things. We are given little information on Satan or those who rebelled with him. There are a few verses we can ascribe to him; his pride, his desire to ascend higher. But no more. Inquiring minds would know more, of course, considering the consequences of his rebellion and the corresponding one he encouraged here on earth. But again, we need not know it.
So, to return to our main topic, while we may pull together various verses and thoughts we believe are connected to Paul's "restrainer", there are no outright verses that speak to it, presumably because we don't need to know his identity...just his existence.

You folks should have kept going with this lead...

Philip James said:

Then I saw an angel come down from heaven, holding in his hand the key to the abyss and a heavy chain.

He seized the dragon, the ancient serpent, which is the Devil or Satan, and tied it up for a thousand years and threw it into the abyss, which he locked over it and sealed, so that it could no longer lead the nations astray until the thousand years are completed. After this, it is to be released for a short time.

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The Angel only ‘binds’ Satan. The Angel does not ‘restrain’ Satan. In other words, the Angel puts Satan in prison. What is the prison? The Bottomless Pit.

Once Satan is in prison (The Bottomless Pit) it is now the duty of the Prison Guard to ‘restrain’ Satan until the appointed time. Who is the Prison Guard?

Revelation 9:11
"And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon."

And there you have it. Abaddon/Apollyon is Prison Guard and the One who Restrains Satan until 'He be taken out of the way'.

Once the Strong Man Apollyon is bound and 'taken out of the way'...

Matthew 12:29
"Or else how can one enter into a strong man’s house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house"

...the 'goods' can escape...

Revelation 9:1
"And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit"

Remember, a *Fallen Star* is not the Good Guy! The Key was given to him in order for Satan to ESCAPE from the Prison Guard...

Revelation 11:7
"And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them."

VictoryinJesus said:

Was not speaking of the knowledge of all things except if you mean in the knowledge of Christ and His love. Which without God’s people perish for the lack of. Saul/Paul was the example. Jesus asked Saul why he persecuted Him. The why being flesh persecutes the Spirit. Paul destroyed His body, wasted His Church, imprisoned many, and consented to Stephen‘s death. The point was nothing restrained the evil Paul spoke of, even saying all have had their conversation in the lust of the flesh, that he (Paul also)had done prior to Christ. Yet Paul said God forgave one who consented to the murder of Stephen and the persecution of Christ because he had done it in ignorance. Ignorance meaning blindness. Is Paul not testifying when he spoke of “blindness in part” has come on Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in , the same as Paul saying he is no longer blind? Do see your point in even God sets the bounds of sea and says to the waves thereof “You go this far and no further”. Only asking how then God writes His laws on the hearts of many and restrains them from doing harm. Do not see the love of Christ is restraining evil in the world but instead allowing it(in absence of restraint), even to: If the world hates Me, it will hate you.” Speaking Of Paul’s ignorance “blindness” prior to the Revelation of Christ...is the world not blind? Not Restrained from doing evil but “raging” mad? God restrains those who love Him by the love of Christ. Where the God of peace rules. No peace “His peace” ...then confusion, raging, waxing cold and worse and worse being unrestrained (IMO) not restrained.
Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

in your life ...those that don’t know Him or want to know Him ...are they restrained from doing harm?

Would read @101G.

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I'm sorry, I struggled to follow your thought train at times here. I think you are arguing for the 'new man', the regenerated Christian, the love of Christ within them, being a 'restraining force' within the world? And that therefore those without Christ are the very antithesis of restraint, love, kindness, etc.
That very well might be, and very well might be biblically shown that the two are in opposition to one another. But it is still a debatable case that the nature of the Christian is still what is in Paul's mind when he speaks of "the" restrainer. Which again, brings me back to my original point that nowhere else in scripture is this 'restrainer' specifically mentioned. People infer, as you have done, and perhaps not without legitimacy. But they are just inferences or speculations. This is why so many people have multiple different ideas, and why debate often rages on the subject. If there were more verses that spoke specifically about it, it would narrow it down considerably.

Heart2Soul said:

I keep trying to find a certain scripture and it's hard because it's not separated by books or OT and NT

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That would be frustrating! Good reason to have a copy of both sorts? Might be interesting either way, comparing the standard layout to the chronological. I wonder if having a chronological copy would help me keep track of when Israel was exiled or not in the OT....I can never keep it sorted in my head when reading where they are at any given time in redemption history!