Does the Holy Spirit prevent wicked from being revealed¿

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Stranger

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“Day of the Lord” Revelation 16:15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.

Who is “behold I come as a thief” ? Paul spoke of not being unclothed but clothed upon from above and also of “keeps his garments” 1 Thessalonians 4:4 That every one of you should know how to possess (keep)his vessel in sanctification and honour;


But there is also 1 Thessalonians 5:2-6 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. [3] For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. [4] But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. [5] Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness. [6] Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.

Struggling with what I’ve always heard. Pertaining to the rapture in waiting to be taken as a thief in the night. Raptured out of here. But he says that day will not come upon you as a surprise being of the day and not the night. To be of the day and the light and not of the night and darkness...then that day has already come upon them. Luke 12:32-33 Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom. [33] Sell that ye have, and give alms; provide yourselves bags which wax not old, a treasure in the heavens that faileth not, where no thief approacheth, neither moth corrupteth.

(Rev. 16:13-16) speaks to Armageddon during the Day of the Lord. (14) "I come as a thief" in (15) is Jesus Christ at his Second Coming. The 'watching and keeping oneself' are those believers going through the Tribulation. This is not what we call the Rapture of the Church.

(1 Thess. 5:2-6) is Paul comforting the saints at Thessalonica that the Day of the Lord shall not overtake them as a thief. See vs.(4) Paul addressed the Rapture in (1 Thess. 4:13-18).

Stranger
 

Waiting on him

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So the Restrainer is our 'Old Man' that needs to be taken out of the way?

That's an interesting concept and all, but this verse shows the Man of Sin as One who is coming in the future...

2 Thessalonians 2:9
"Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders"


I read that as Prophecy that has yet to be fulfilled. In addition, I wouldn't exactly say any of us here can admit to having 'All Power' and have been able to produce 'Signs' and 'Lying Wonders'.

Well, at least those of us that aren't narcissists.

:p
If Satan is bound
So the Restrainer is our 'Old Man' that needs to be taken out of the way?

That's an interesting concept and all, but this verse shows the Man of Sin as One who is coming in the future...

2 Thessalonians 2:9
"Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders"


I read that as Prophecy that has yet to be fulfilled. In addition, I wouldn't exactly say any of us here can admit to having 'All Power' and have been able to produce 'Signs' and 'Lying Wonders'.

Well, at least those of us that aren't narcissists.

:p
 
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Waiting on him

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So the Restrainer is our 'Old Man' that needs to be taken out of the way?

That's an interesting concept and all, but this verse shows the Man of Sin as One who is coming in the future...

2 Thessalonians 2:9
"Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders"


I read that as Prophecy that has yet to be fulfilled. In addition, I wouldn't exactly say any of us here can admit to having 'All Power' and have been able to produce 'Signs' and 'Lying Wonders'.

Well, at least those of us that aren't narcissists.

:p
If Satan is bound
Once the Strong Man Apollyon is bound and 'taken out of the way'...

Matthew 12:29
"Or else how can one enter into a strong man’s house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house"


...the 'goods' can escape...

Revelation 9:1
"And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit"


Remember, a *Fallen Star* is not the Good Guy! The Key was given to him in order for Satan to ESCAPE from the Prison Guard...

Revelation 11:7
"And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them."


;)
Once the Strong Man Apollyon is bound and 'taken out of the way'...

Matthew 12:29
"Or else how can one enter into a strong man’s house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house"


...the 'goods' can escape...

Revelation 9:1
"And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit"


Remember, a *Fallen Star* is not the Good Guy! The Key was given to him in order for Satan to ESCAPE from the Prison Guard...

Revelation 11:7
"And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them."


;)
Who can argue????

Hebrews 10:31-34 KJV
It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. [32] But call to remembrance the former days, in which, after ye were illuminated, ye endured a great fight of afflictions; [33] Partly, whilst ye were made a gazingstock both by reproaches and afflictions; and partly, whilst ye became companions of them that were so used. [34] For ye had compassion of me in my bonds, and took joyfully the spoiling of your goods, knowing in yourselves that ye have in heaven a better and an enduring substance.

Has your house been spoiled¿¿¿
 

Waiting on him

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2 Thessalonians 2:10-11 KJV
And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. [11] And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

In them, they are strong.....

There is one stronger.
 

Waiting on him

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Ok, firstly, I was not actually saying brain-eating zombies...it was a joke...the dead walking. Sorry if that threw things off track.
However, I think, apart from that, you may have missed my point (or else I'm missing yours, which is always possible). Christian belief rests on faith, of course, even that Christ rose from death and that we accept the biblical account of it.
But that is not really what we are speaking of here. What we are speaking of is specific things in scripture being referred to in enough places to be able to place a finger on what it means. Sure we know Christ rose from the dead...but we have multiple verses that speak of this...indeed, it is the basis of our salvational hope and one of our main doctrines, so it has plenty of verses that we have built that doctrine upon. We can even say that the bible speaks of a resurrection of the dead...but consistently those verses point to that time being at Christ's return. So, unless we're looking at the particular miracles of Christ, when he bought people back from the dead, we have no other verses that speak of the dead walking before Christ's second coming. Matt 27 is, really, an anomaly. And we are asked to accept it, that it happened on this most stupendous of days. And so we shall.
But scripture is likewise filled with such things. We are given little information on Satan or those who rebelled with him. There are a few verses we can ascribe to him; his pride, his desire to ascend higher. But no more. Inquiring minds would know more, of course, considering the consequences of his rebellion and the corresponding one he encouraged here on earth. But again, we need not know it.
So, to return to our main topic, while we may pull together various verses and thoughts we believe are connected to Paul's "restrainer", there are no outright verses that speak to it, presumably because we don't need to know his identity...just his existence.
You seem too know a lot about what can't be known.
Has your house been spoiled?
 

Waiting on him

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Ok, firstly, I was not actually saying brain-eating zombies...it was a joke...the dead walking. Sorry if that threw things off track.
However, I think, apart from that, you may have missed my point (or else I'm missing yours, which is always possible). Christian belief rests on faith, of course, even that Christ rose from death and that we accept the biblical account of it.
But that is not really what we are speaking of here. What we are speaking of is specific things in scripture being referred to in enough places to be able to place a finger on what it means. Sure we know Christ rose from the dead...but we have multiple verses that speak of this...indeed, it is the basis of our salvational hope and one of our main doctrines, so it has plenty of verses that we have built that doctrine upon. We can even say that the bible speaks of a resurrection of the dead...but consistently those verses point to that time being at Christ's return. So, unless we're looking at the particular miracles of Christ, when he bought people back from the dead, we have no other verses that speak of the dead walking before Christ's second coming. Matt 27 is, really, an anomaly. And we are asked to accept it, that it happened on this most stupendous of days. And so we shall.
But scripture is likewise filled with such things. We are given little information on Satan or those who rebelled with him. There are a few verses we can ascribe to him; his pride, his desire to ascend higher. But no more. Inquiring minds would know more, of course, considering the consequences of his rebellion and the corresponding one he encouraged here on earth. But again, we need not know it.
So, to return to our main topic, while we may pull together various verses and thoughts we believe are connected to Paul's "restrainer", there are no outright verses that speak to it, presumably because we don't need to know his identity...just his existence.
Revelation 21:10 KJV
And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,
Maybe the problem is in looking to the earthly when we should look to the heavenly,
Same with the temple/house.
 

VictoryinJesus

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(Rev. 16:13-16) speaks to Armageddon during the Day of the Lord. (14) "I come as a thief" in (15) is Jesus Christ at his Second Coming. The 'watching and keeping oneself' are those believers going through the Tribulation. This is not what we call the Rapture of the Church.

I’m sorry then for misunderstanding. I had always heard he would come as a thief and one would be taken and the another left as, the rapture.
 
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VictoryinJesus

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(1 Thess. 5:2-6) is Paul comforting the saints at Thessalonica that the Day of the Lord shall not overtake them as a thief. See vs.(4) Paul addressed the Rapture in (1 Thess. 4:13-18).

Question: are of you of the day? Or still of the night with expectation of the day and light?
 

Timtofly

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I’m sorry them for misunderstanding. I had always heard he would come as a thief and one would be taken and the another left as, the rapture.
The rapture may separate loved ones, but that would be bad. Covid19 has done the taking and leaving as was promised by Jesus. This time is the reaping. It is not in a split second. It is going to take 3.5 years. It has already been almost 6 months. By April of 2023 it will be over.
 

101G

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Revelation 21:10 KJV
And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,
Maybe the problem is in looking to the earthly when we should look to the heavenly,
Same with the temple/house.
GINOLJC, to all
2 Corinthians 5:1

PICJAG.
 

VictoryinJesus

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I think you are arguing for the 'new man', the regenerated Christian, the love of Christ within them, being a 'restraining force' within the world? And that therefore those without Christ are the very antithesis of restraint, love, kindness, etc.

@Naomi25 not exactly. Yes the love of Christ should restrain those that are His.
Again Paul is an example going from wasting and destruction to 1 Corinthians 9:22 To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.

Save them from what? Wrath? Colossians 3:6 For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:
-Isaiah 13:8-9 And they shall be afraid: pangs and sorrows shall take hold of them; they shall be in pain as a woman that travaileth: they shall be amazed one at another; their faces shall be as flames. [9] Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.

Luke 12:33 Sell that ye have, and give alms; provide yourselves bags which wax not old, a treasure in the heavens that faileth not, where no thief approacheth, neither moth corrupteth.

1 Timothy 6:16-19 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen. [17] Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not highminded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy; [18] That they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate; [19] Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life.
 
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101G

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"The classic battle with our own flesh"
1 Corinthians 9:24 "Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.

1 Corinthians 9:25 "And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.

1 Corinthians 9:26 "I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:

1 Corinthians 9:27 "But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.



Romans 7:12 "Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

Romans 7:13 "Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

Romans 7:14 "For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

Romans 7:15 "For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.

Romans 7:16 "If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.

Romans 7:17 "Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

Romans 7:18 "For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

Romans 7:19 "For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

Romans 7:20 "Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

Romans 7:21 "I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

Romans 7:22 "For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

Romans 7:23 "But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

Romans 7:24 "O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

Romans 7:25 "I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

PICJAG.
 

VictoryinJesus

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Romans 7:25 "I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Romans 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

1 Corinthians 2:16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.
 
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101G

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(smile)... did you see what it said in 1 Corinthians 9:27"
follow the scriptures,

Listen, 2 Thessalonians 2:7 "For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way".
letteth: G2722 κατέχω katecho (kat-e'-chō) v.
to hold down (hold fast), in various applications.
{literally or figuratively}
[from G2596 and G2192]
KJ: have, hold (fast), keep (in memory), let, X make toward, possess, retain, seize on, stay, take, withhold
Root(s): G2596, G2192

ok, "retain", now this,

1 Corinthians 9:27 "But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway".

Keep: G5299 ὑπωπιάζω hupopiazo (hï-pō-piy-a'-zō) v.
1. to hit under the eye (buffet or disable an antagonist as a pugilist).
2. (figuratively) to tease or annoy (into compliance), subdue (one's passions).
[from a compound of G5259 and a derivative of G3700]
KJV: keep under, weary
Root(s): G5259, G3700

now, Noah Webster's 1828 Dictionary of American English,
Keep: 1. To hold; to retain in one's power or possession; not to lose or part with; as, to keep a house or a farm; to keep any thing in the memory, mind or heart.
2. To have in custody for security or preservation.

3. To preserve; to retain. .... BINGO. now re-read 1 Corinthians 9:27 and who is doing the reSTRATING.

ANOTHER WORD FOR "RETAIN" WHEN USED AS A VERB, "To refuse to give (something that is due to or is desired by another)", IS "RESTRAIN".

PICJAG.
 
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Waiting on him

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(smile)... did you see what it said in 1 Corinthians 9:27"
follow the scriptures,

Listen, 2 Thessalonians 2:7 "For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way".
letteth: G2722 κατέχω katecho (kat-e'-chō) v.
to hold down (hold fast), in various applications.
{literally or figuratively}
[from G2596 and G2192]
KJ: have, hold (fast), keep (in memory), let, X make toward, possess, retain, seize on, stay, take, withhold
Root(s): G2596, G2192

ok, "retain", now this,

1 Corinthians 9:27 "But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway".

Keep: G5299 ὑπωπιάζω hupopiazo (hï-pō-piy-a'-zō) v.
1. to hit under the eye (buffet or disable an antagonist as a pugilist).
2. (figuratively) to tease or annoy (into compliance), subdue (one's passions).
[from a compound of G5259 and a derivative of G3700]
KJV: keep under, weary
Root(s): G5259, G3700

now, Noah Webster's 1828 Dictionary of American English,
Keep: 1. To hold; to retain in one's power or possession; not to lose or part with; as, to keep a house or a farm; to keep any thing in the memory, mind or heart.
2. To have in custody for security or preservation.

3. To preserve; to retain. .... BINGO. now re-read 1 Corinthians 9:27 and who is doing the re

ANOTHER WORD FOR "RETAIN" WHEN USED AS A VERB, "To refuse to give (something that is due to or is desired by another)", IS "RESTRAIN".

PICJAG.
That would mean that this vessel would no longer be subject to what I want?

Though I'm always present.
 

101G

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Romans 7:20 "Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me"

so,
1 Corinthians 9:26 "I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:

1 Corinthians 9:27 "But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway".

PICJAG.
 

VictoryinJesus

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(smile)... did you see what it said in 1 Corinthians 9:27"
follow the scriptures,

Listen, 2 Thessalonians 2:7 "For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way".
letteth: G2722 κατέχω katecho (kat-e'-chō) v.
to hold down (hold fast), in various applications.
{literally or figuratively}
[from G2596 and G2192]
KJ: have, hold (fast), keep (in memory), let, X make toward, possess, retain, seize on, stay, take, withhold
Root(s): G2596, G2192

ok, "retain", now this,

1 Corinthians 9:27 "But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway".

Keep: G5299 ὑπωπιάζω hupopiazo (hï-pō-piy-a'-zō) v.
1. to hit under the eye (buffet or disable an antagonist as a pugilist).
2. (figuratively) to tease or annoy (into compliance), subdue (one's passions).
[from a compound of G5259 and a derivative of G3700]
KJV: keep under, weary
Root(s): G5259, G3700

now, Noah Webster's 1828 Dictionary of American English,
Keep: 1. To hold; to retain in one's power or possession; not to lose or part with; as, to keep a house or a farm; to keep any thing in the memory, mind or heart.
2. To have in custody for security or preservation.

3. To preserve; to retain. .... BINGO. now re-read 1 Corinthians 9:27 and who is doing the re

ANOTHER WORD FOR "RETAIN" WHEN USED AS A VERB, "To refuse to give (something that is due to or is desired by another)", IS "RESTRAIN".

PICJAG.

All very helpful but if being honest...it still is not clear. Does make me consider
Isaiah 27:4-5 Fury is not in me: who would set the briers and thorns against me in battle? I would go through them, I would burn them together. [5] Or let him take hold of my strength, that he may make peace with me; and he shall make peace with me.

James 3:18 And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace.
^always heard that different until one day The Who one is to make peace with stood out there. those who make peace “with Me.” “take hold of MY strength”

Which happens before that which comes down, given from above and not of men. “Take hold of My strength” James 3:17 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.
 

101G

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All very helpful but if being honest...it still is not clear. Does make me consider
Isaiah 27:4-5 Fury is not in me: who would set the briers and thorns against me in battle? I would go through them, I would burn them together. [5] Or let him take hold of my strength, that he may make peace with me; and he shall make peace with me.

James 3:18 And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace.
^always heard that different until one day The Who one is to make peace with stood out there. those who make peace “with Me.” “take hold of MY strength”

Which happens before that which comes down, given from above and not of men. “Take hold of My strength” James 3:17 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.
James 4:8

PICJAG.