Does the Holy Spirit prevent wicked from being revealed¿

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VictoryinJesus

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James 4:8

PICJAG.

James 1:8-10 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways. [9] Let the brother of low degree rejoice in that he is exalted: [10] But the rich, in that he is made low: because as the flower of the grass he shall pass away. (So rejoice) whether abased or abounding. Give thanks.

Luke 12:16-21 And he spake a parable unto them, saying, The ground of a certain rich man brought forth plentifully: [17] And he thought within himself, saying, What shall I do, because I have no room where to bestow my fruits? [18] And he said, This will I do: I will pull down my barns, and build greater; and there will I bestow all my fruits and my goods. [19] And I will say to my soul, Soul, thou hast much goods laid up for many years; take thine ease, eat, drink, and be merry. [20] But God said unto him, Thou fool, this night thy soul shall be required of thee: then whose shall those things be, which thou hast provided? [21] So is he that layeth up treasure for himself, and is not rich toward God.
 
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Waiting on him

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James 1:8-10 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways. [9] Let the brother of low degree rejoice in that he is exalted: [10] But the rich, in that he is made low: because as the flower of the grass he shall pass away. (So rejoice) whether abased or abounding. Give thanks.

Luke 12:16-21 And he spake a parable unto them, saying, The ground of a certain rich man brought forth plentifully: [17] And he thought within himself, saying, What shall I do, because I have no room where to bestow my fruits? [18] And he said, This will I do: I will pull down my barns, and build greater; and there will I bestow all my fruits and my goods. [19] And I will say to my soul, Soul, thou hast much goods laid up for many years; take thine ease, eat, drink, and be merry. [20] But God said unto him, Thou fool, this night thy soul shall be required of thee: then whose shall those things be, which thou hast provided? [21] So is he that layeth up treasure for himself, and is not rich toward God.
How do we be rich toward God?
 

101G

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James 1:8-10 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways. [9] Let the brother of low degree rejoice in that he is exalted: [10] But the rich, in that he is made low: because as the flower of the grass he shall pass away. (So rejoice) whether abased or abounding. Give thanks.

Luke 12:16-21 And he spake a parable unto them, saying, The ground of a certain rich man brought forth plentifully: [17] And he thought within himself, saying, What shall I do, because I have no room where to bestow my fruits? [18] And he said, This will I do: I will pull down my barns, and build greater; and there will I bestow all my fruits and my goods. [19] And I will say to my soul, Soul, thou hast much goods laid up for many years; take thine ease, eat, drink, and be merry. [20] But God said unto him, Thou fool, this night thy soul shall be required of thee: then whose shall those things be, which thou hast provided? [21] So is he that layeth up treasure for himself, and is not rich toward God.
hence the reason why James 4:2 "Ye lust, and have not: ye kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: ye fight and war, yet ye have not, because ye ask not.
James 4:3 "Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts.

James 4:4 "Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.
James 4:5 "Do ye think that the scripture saith in vain, The spirit that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy?

so re-new you mind in the Spirit, and ...... TAKE AWAY that double mind..... get it?.... ;)

PICJAG.
 

VictoryinJesus

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James 4:3 "Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts.

You ask, and receive not Him and His kingdom, because you ask amiss, that you may consume Him and His kingdom upon your lusts.

Yet: 2 Corinthians 12:14-15 Behold, the third time I am ready to come to you; and I will not be burdensome to you: for I seek not yours, but you: for the children ought not to lay up for the parents, but the parents for the children. [15] And I will very gladly spend and be spent for you; though the more abundantly I love you, the less I be loved.
 

101G

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You ask, and receive not Him and His kingdom, because you ask amiss, that you may consume Him and His kingdom upon your lusts.

Yet: 2 Corinthians 12:14-15 Behold, the third time I am ready to come to you; and I will not be burdensome to you: for I seek not yours, but you: for the children ought not to lay up for the parents, but the parents for the children. [15] And I will very gladly spend and be spent for you; though the more abundantly I love you, the less I be loved.
no problems, but you did not recieved the Kingdom to consume it on your lust, did you? no because just in the scripture you posted, God our parent knows your heart.

lets get down to business.
#1. now that you're in the kingdom, God being a good parent, 1. teach his children, because one is not save by ... "THEIR OWN" ... works, but are saved to do God's work. (not my will but his). you have a will but so do God. my advice is to do his will, but what is his will, ..... his word. let me explain, this is what's called putting away the old man. act on his word, meaning be faithful in something. giving an example, I greets everone when I cvome on the forum, I started doing this many, many, years ago. I took a single thing out of his word, 1 Corinthians 16:20. in GREETING I was faithful in it, and God as he always do saw it. he saw that I was faithful in doing this greeting every day, as christian suppose to do. so the Godly principle works, "be faithful in a little, he will make you ruler over a lot". that the basic to "OVERCOME".

I didn't ask for wisdom, as with Salomon, but God gave him wisdom and what he also asked for, just to greet his peopl .... wait, no but to learn to lead God prople, (going in and out). so if one goes after God's word faithfully, God will reward you, and give you anything else you want.

so seeking the Kingdom is at hand. and in doing so it taketh away the old carnal man.

PICJAG.
 
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Stranger

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I’m sorry then for misunderstanding. I had always heard he would come as a thief and one would be taken and the another left as, the rapture.

This speaks to the Second Coming and not the Rapture. In (Matt. 24:36-44), the one taken is taken in judgement. See vs (39).

It's important to recognize the difference of these two events as to their purpose and timing.

Stranger
 

VictoryinJesus

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for I seek not yours, but you: for the children ought not to lay up for the parents, but the parents for the children. [15] And I will very gladly spend and be spent for you; though the more abundantly I love you, the less I be loved.

@101G. Understood. Hopefully consider the above with the parable:
Luke 12:16-21 And he spake a parable unto them, saying, The ground of a certain rich man brought forth plentifully: [17] And he thought within himself, saying, What shall I do, because I have no room where to bestow my fruits?

John 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.


And he said, This will I do: I will pull down my barns, and build greater; and there will I bestow all my fruits and my goods. And I will say to my soul, Soul, thou hast much goods laid up for many years; take thine ease, eat, drink, and be merry. (1 Thessalonians 5:3-4)

But God said unto him, Thou fool, this night thy soul shall be required of thee: then whose shall those things be, which thou hast provided?


THEN whose shall those things be? With —for the children ought not lay up for the parents, but the parents for the children. [15] And I will very gladly spend and be spent for you;

So is he that layeth up treasure for himself, and is not rich toward God.



Point is: Here man lies in his heart: This will I do: I will pull down my barns, and build greater;

Galatians 2:18-19 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. [19] For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.


Ephesians 2:20-21 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone ; [21] In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:


John 2:19-20 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy (pull down)this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.(Greater) [20] Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?

Mark 14:56-58 For many bare false witness against him, but their witness agreed not together. [57] And there arose certain, and bare false witness against him, saying, [58] We heard him say, I will destroy this temple that is made with hands, and within three days I will build another (Greater)made without hands.
To display the fruits: Galatians 5:22-23 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, [23] Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.


I’m sorry if that is jumbled up. Only thought is significant in speaking of the day of the Lord not coming as a thief upon that which of the day and Light. Coming instead “that they may have Life abundantly”. Is Paul not saying the more His Spirit is poured out, the abundantly I love you” yet “I will very gladly spend and be spent for you;”
—parents ought to lay up treasure for the children.
2 Corinthians 6:10-13 As sorrowful, yet alway rejoicing; as poor, yet making many rich; as having nothing, and yet possessing all things. [11] O ye Corinthians, our mouth is open unto you, our heart is enlarged. [12] Ye are not straitened in us, but ye are straitened in your own bowels. [13] Now for a recompence in the same, (I speak as unto my children,) be ye also enlarged.
 

101G

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@101G. Understood. Hopefully consider the above with the parable:
Luke 12:16-21 And he spake a parable unto them, saying, The ground of a certain rich man brought forth plentifully: [17] And he thought within himself, saying, What shall I do, because I have no room where to bestow my fruits?

John 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.


And he said, This will I do: I will pull down my barns, and build greater; and there will I bestow all my fruits and my goods. And I will say to my soul, Soul, thou hast much goods laid up for many years; take thine ease, eat, drink, and be merry. (1 Thessalonians 5:3-4)

But God said unto him, Thou fool, this night thy soul shall be required of thee: then whose shall those things be, which thou hast provided?


THEN whose shall those things be? With —for the children ought not lay up for the parents, but the parents for the children. [15] And I will very gladly spend and be spent for you;

So is he that layeth up treasure for himself, and is not rich toward God.



Point is: Here man lies in his heart: This will I do: I will pull down my barns, and build greater;

Galatians 2:18-19 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. [19] For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.


Ephesians 2:20-21 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone ; [21] In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:


John 2:19-20 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy (pull down)this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.(Greater) [20] Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?

Mark 14:56-58 For many bare false witness against him, but their witness agreed not together. [57] And there arose certain, and bare false witness against him, saying, [58] We heard him say, I will destroy this temple that is made with hands, and within three days I will build another (Greater)made without hands.
To display the fruits: Galatians 5:22-23 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, [23] Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.


I’m sorry if that is jumbled up. Only thought is significant in speaking of the day of the Lord not coming as a thief upon that which of the day and Light. Coming instead “that they may have Life abundantly”. Is Paul not saying the more His Spirit is poured out, the abundantly I love you” yet “I will very gladly spend and be spent for you;”
—parents ought to lay up treasure for the children.
2 Corinthians 6:10-13 As sorrowful, yet alway rejoicing; as poor, yet making many rich; as having nothing, and yet possessing all things. [11] O ye Corinthians, our mouth is open unto you, our heart is enlarged. [12] Ye are not straitened in us, but ye are straitened in your own bowels. [13] Now for a recompence in the same, (I speak as unto my children,) be ye also enlarged.
thanks for the reply, "Spiritual" vs "Carnal" things. (The words that I speak unto you is LIFE.) we must remember that this world that we presently live in is only a "CREATED WORLD". we don't live in the real world which is to come. so take no stock in this world that is passing away. Hint: take no comfort in the flesh for it will be done away with. for in this carnal world, tomorrow is not promise to us.

so we must ... "Compare spiritual things with spiritual things. our inheritance is not this world, as you stated in John 14:2 but the scriptures are clear, 1 Corinthians 2:9 "But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him". so these things are which to look for.

but while we're here in these bodies, we can enjoy the things in this life which it has to offer. but just don't over do it, for all things was made GOOD. but we must share with each other. good excellent correlation in Luke 12:16-21 and 1 Thessalonians 5:3-4, BINGO hit that one on the head.

now as for the Lord coming as a thief, no he's not coming at night.... (smile), no, it just means no man knows the time nor the hour when our Lord will come.

Keep up the Good work.

PICJAG.
 

Naomi25

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You seem too know a lot about what can't be known.
Has your house been spoiled?

I don't think you understand me. I'm not saying we cannot discuss who the restrainer is. I'm not even saying we cannot come to a reasonable understanding of who he might be. I'm saying that the bible doesn't seem to outright mention "the restrainer" elsewhere. And that, therefore, all conversations and conclusions must be from texts we believe are about it in some periphery way. And THAT leads to the debate and conversations and disagreements over this topic. Witness, for goodness sakes, our very own conversation. :rolleyes: You say that things can be known, but the texts you, or anyone else, provide do not list the restrainer outright, do they? And I have not, have I, dismissed any ideas just because of that...I am merely pointing out caution should be taken when a text does not speak to a subject outright. And if pointing out the obvious leaves my 'house spoiled', then the mind boggles at the opposite. Just sayin'.
 
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Naomi25

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Revelation 21:10 KJV
And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,
Maybe the problem is in looking to the earthly when we should look to the heavenly,
Same with the temple/house.
And maybe by saying really spiritual things we can duck the obvious. But...by all means, if you can point out where I'm in error, please do so. If you can find another outright reference to "the restrainer" in scripture, I'm all ears and incredibly interested. But if not, all your arguments are only proving my original point for me.
 

Dcopymope

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If Satan is bound

Well, he isn't, he has been free to roam the earth like a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour since the day God made him the "prince" of this world. Those that claim he is already bound will have to prove that the following event already occurred without any shadow of a doubt.

(Revelation 20:1-3) "And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. {2} And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, {3} And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season."
 
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Waiting on him

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And maybe by saying really spiritual things we can duck the obvious. But...by all means, if you can point out where I'm in error, please do so. If you can find another outright reference to "the restrainer" in scripture, I'm all ears and incredibly interested. But if not, all your arguments are only proving my original point for me.
Have a look at post 136 if you have time
 

Waiting on him

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And maybe by saying really spiritual things we can duck the obvious. But...by all means, if you can point out where I'm in error, please do so. If you can find another outright reference to "the restrainer" in scripture, I'm all ears and incredibly interested. But if not, all your arguments are only proving my original point for me.
And I'm sorry I offended you.
 

VictoryinJesus

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Hint: take no comfort in the flesh for it will be done away with

Strengthen those things which remain.
Luke 22:32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted(turn again), strengthen thy brethren.

"But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him". so these things are which to look for.

Good reminder. Yet often the passage is cut off to say the opposite. 1 Corinthians 2:9-12 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him. [10] But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. [11] For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. [12] Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Revelation 2:17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written,(New Jerusalem) which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth (the Spirit of God)it.
 

101G

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Strengthen those things which remain.
Luke 22:32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted(turn again), strengthen thy brethren.



Good reminder. Yet often the passage is cut off to say the opposite. 1 Corinthians 2:9-12 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him. [10] But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. [11] For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. [12] Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Revelation 2:17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written,(New Jerusalem) which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth (the Spirit of God)it.
on, point, spiritual things that are not seen are eternal.

PICJAG
 

amadeus

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Who is the old man?
Is he not the one drawn to sin as a result of the temptations still in us? When and if we are submitted to the Holy Spirit the old man will never get his way and we do not sin. What actually has happened is that each of us for some reason [one is become weary in well doing] quenches the Holy Spirit. When that happens we are without the power of God and we sin. Remember where Jesus was as a man? He was in the world until he overcame it all:

These things have I spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world." John 16:33

The world Jesus overcame was not planet Earth, but the little bit of earth of which his physical body was made. When he had overcome it all then he was no longer IN the world of temptations although he was still on planet Earth for his work was not finished... not yet. I believe he overcame the final obstacle for himself as a men subject to temptations here:

"And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt." Matt 26:39

"And now I am no more IN the world, but these are in the world..." John 17:11

Jesus was then ready to go to the cross as an overcomer. He was to suffer pain and death, but no longer was he to tempted to avoid that which was his Father's will.

Even for any times we are without sin, we are still subject to the temptations described here as still being in the world, the little world of my own flesh or your own flesh:

"For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world." I John 2:16

When these temptations are finally overcome in us as they were in Jesus, then finally, the old man of us is dead. This is the beast(s) that needs to be killed:

"[Wisdom] She hath killed her beasts;..." Prov 9:2

For indeed as Solomon writes elsewhere...

"I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts." Ecc 3:18

We, everyone of us, that is the old man of us is a beast or beasts... Consider what those beasts may be:

"For he said unto him, Come out of the man, thou unclean spirit.
And he asked him, What is thy name? And he answered, saying, My name is Legion: for we are many
And he besought him much that he would not send them away out of the country.

Now there was there nigh unto the mountains a great herd of swine feeding
And all the devils besought him, saying, Send us into the swine, that we may enter into them." Mark 5:8-12


Consider how the scripture often treats what call 'lower animals' somewhat differently...

"And God said, This is the token of the covenant which I make between me and you and every living creature that is with you, for perpetual generations:" Gen 9:12

"And every living creature" included all of those many creatures in the ark built by Noah per the instruction of God. The unclean ones in the first level and the clean ones in the second level! Finally the 8 of Noah and family in the 3rd level! Perhaps here we see the 3 heavens... They were all saved from the flood!

Perhaps the old man is the beasts which we are... beasts which need to first be cleaned and then removed altogether from us so they no longer tempt us at all...
 
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Waiting on him

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Is he not the one drawn to sin as a result of the temptations still in us? When and if we are submitted to the Holy Spirit the old man will never get his way and we do not sin. What actually has happened is that each of us for some reason [one is become weary in well doing] quenches the Holy Spirit. When that happens we are without the power of God and we sin. Remember where Jesus was as a man? He was in the world until he overcame it all:

These things have I spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world." John 16:33

The world Jesus overcame was not planet Earth, but the little bit of earth of which his physical body was made. When he had overcome it all then he was no longer IN the world of temptations although he was still on planet Earth for his work was not finished... not yet. I believe he overcame the final obstacle for himself as a men subject to temptations here:

"And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt." Matt 26:39

"And now I am no more IN the world, but these are in the world..." John 17:11

Jesus was then ready to go to the cross as an overcomer. He was to suffer pain and death, but no longer was he to tempted to avoid that which was his Father's will.

Even for any times we are without sin, we are still subject to the temptations described here as still being in the world, the little world of my own flesh or your own flesh:

"For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world." I John 2:16

When these temptations are finally overcome in us as they were in Jesus, then finally, the old man of us is dead. This is the beast(s) that needs to be killed:

"[Wisdom] She hath killed her beasts;..." Prov 9:2

For indeed as Solomon writes elsewhere...

"I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts." Ecc 3:18

We, everyone of us, that is the old man of us is a beast or beasts... Consider what those beasts may be:

"For he said unto him, Come out of the man, thou unclean spirit.
And he asked him, What is thy name? And he answered, saying, My name is Legion: for we are many
And he besought him much that he would not send them away out of the country.
Now there was there nigh unto the mountains a great herd of swine feeding
And all the devils besought him, saying, Send us into the swine, that we may enter into them." Mark 5:8-12


Consider how the scripture often treats what call 'lower animals' somewhat differently...

"And God said, This is the token of the covenant which I make between me and you and every living creature that is with you, for perpetual generations:" Gen 9:12

"And every living creature" included all of those many creatures in the ark built by Noah per the instruction of God. The unclean ones in the first level and the clean ones in the second level! Finally the 8 of Noah and family in the 3rd level! Perhaps here we see the 3 heavens... They were all saved from the flood!

Perhaps the old man is the beasts which we are... beasts which need to first be cleaned and then removed altogether from us so they no longer tempt us at all...
Very good post John.

God bless.
 

Naomi25

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@Naomi25 not exactly. Yes the love of Christ should restrain those that are His.
Again Paul is an example going from wasting and destruction to 1 Corinthians 9:22 To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.

Save them from what? Wrath? Colossians 3:6 For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:
-Isaiah 13:8-9 And they shall be afraid: pangs and sorrows shall take hold of them; they shall be in pain as a woman that travaileth: they shall be amazed one at another; their faces shall be as flames. [9] Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.

Luke 12:33 Sell that ye have, and give alms; provide yourselves bags which wax not old, a treasure in the heavens that faileth not, where no thief approacheth, neither moth corrupteth.

1 Timothy 6:16-19 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen. [17] Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not highminded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy; [18] That they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate; [19] Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life.

Still not exactly following you in terms of the conversation. How do any of these verses point to 2 Thess 2? Or rather...how do they prove me incorrect when I say that no other verse directly references 'the restrainer'? Even if you are pulling together some point that speaks to the issue, doesn't the fact that "the restrainer" is not mentioned still rather concrete? Not trying to be daft here, just honestly trying to see how on earth pulling together several other verses that do not outright state 'the restrainer' is anything but a conversation based on theories, ideas and assumptions...even if they're very good ones.
Again: please note; I am NOT arguing for or against any particular view or idea. I am simply saying that a conversation about this topic cannot be narrowed down to a 'Yes' or 'No', or a "this is definitely it, here are the bible verses that absolutely prove it"....simply because we have one (1) verse that directly names "the restrainer". People pull together theories and ideas on who it is based on other verses that do NOT directly name or refer to this person. Hence the deep conversation and confusion on the topic. This is all I am saying.
 

Naomi25

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Have a look at post 136 if you have time

Okay. Sure. Have done. And I find it just a little bit of a linguistic stretch to say that a word that means primarily "to strike under the eye" also can be read as "the restrainer".
That would have to be in the same category as someone saying "im gonna bop you over the head"...and another going....'bop! that means hit, sort of...a light hit. And hitting is assault. Assault can also be being held against your will...like being bound...or...restrained! Aha! Restrained! Therefore, bop equals restrained".

I mean, you wanna argue that, go for your life. But, as I'm attempting to point out, in no way, shape or form is 1 Cor 9:27 a direct reference to the restrainer. Sorry, just isn't. It's a person reading into the text and applying back to another text because they want to see something in it that correlates.

And I'm sorry I offended you.

You're not offending me, not at all. But I am somewhat bemused at how persistently you are attempting to sell me on an idea, when I'm not really trying to debate ideas. You said you didn't want debates, just clean answers...I said you probably wouldn't be able to get 'em, based on the text in question, and then you launched into a debate. I mean....doesn't that bemuse you as well?
Anyway, I've made my point now, and since I don't really want to get into THE debate over THE topic, I suppose I'll just bow out. But have a nice one, and remember....I did warn you! :p