The Olivet Discourse

Keraz · May 1, 2020

Jesus said: Take care to not be deceived......
This statement shows that being deceived IS possible for Christians. Amply proved by how most Christians; have very differing understandings of the Prophetic Word. Matthew 24:24
What to do? For over 10 years now, I have had a website up with many articles pointing out the prophesies; Gods plans for the end of this age, culminating in the Return of Jesus.
I post on the Christian Forums, refuting errors and wild fables, and showing how the Prophets describe a coherent and logical sequence of things that can and will happen.
That I have had very little success doesn't really worry me, it’s just somewhat frustrating! The actual prophets had a far harder time of it than I have.

We can all see how the world situation is now unsustainable. We have had wars, plagues and natural disasters. But as Jesus said, in Matthew 24:7-8; they are just the birth pangs of the new age. There has to come some kind of massive change before Jesus Returns to reign as King, for the final 1000 years of mankind’s history.
But what the Bible Prophets, including Jesus in Matthew 24:37-44, do tell us, is an event of similar magnitude to Noah's Flood; a total reset of our civilization.

What Jesus said in Matthew 24:27-30 is of the greatest interest to us now.
1/ He will come like a lightening flash, seen by all. But not yet by His presence. Psalms 11:4-6, Habakkuk 3:4
2/ There will be many killed. Jeremiah 25:33.
3/ The vultures will gather.
4/ AFTER that time, there will be other cosmic signs and He will Return in power and great glory.

1/ The great and terrible Day of the Lords fiery wrath, is a worldwide disaster prophesied in over 100 scriptures. Jesus' next action on earth as: Isaiah 61:2b, 2 Peter 3:7, Rev 6:12
2/ Millions will die from this disaster, especially in the Middle East. Zephaniah 1:14-18, Ezekiel 30:1-5, Jeremiah 10:18
3/ The 'vultures' refers to the rich influencer's of the world, who know what is about to happen and have prepared shelters. They will take control and form a One World Government, led by them. Which we Christians will not be a part of; Isaiah 62:1-5, Romans 9:24-26
4/ The time between the Sixth Seal, a literal Day of disaster, Joel 2:30-31, Isaiah 63:1-6, and the glorious Return of Jesus, is about 20 years.

As Revelation 8:1; the Seventh Seal says; a half hour in heaven... That equals about 20 years of earth time, using the formula of 1 day in heaven equal to 1000 years of earth time.

Jesus told 2 parables; Matthew 25:1-30
The ten virgins; We must be prepared and be aware of what must happen, as the Day He changes the world, will come unexpectedly. 1 Thessalonians 5:1-11
The three servants entrusted with the Masters valuables. Literally our 'talents'. We must do whatever is in our power to further the Kingdom.

Then, when He Returns, He will bring our rewards with Him, Matthew 16:27, Matthew 24:45-46, and those who have failed to act righteously and to promote the truths of scripture, may suffer some loss. 1 Corinthians 3:11-15..... he will escape with his life, after passing thru the fire.
Our test by fire. 1 Peter 4:12

Keraz · May 4, 2020

This is the situation today:

The enemies of the Lord gather - Micah 4:11-12, Ezekiel 36:2
They conspire to attack Israel - Psalms 83:1-8, Isaiah 21:2
They prepare their weapons - Psalms 7:12, Ezekiel 7:14

Soon to happen:
At the moment of attack, God will use His Creation, the sun to send fire - Deuteronomy 32:22 & 34-43, Isaiah 30:26 & 30, Psalms 11:4-6, Isaiah 66:15-17, 2 Peter 3:7, Amos 1:1-15 & 2:1-5, , Psalms 50:1-3, Zephaniah 3:8, Revelation 6:12-17

The sun will explode with an extremely bright flash and the moon will reflect bright red - Isaiah 30:26, Joel 2:31, Acts 2:20, Habakkuk 3:4-5

The Lord will make their weapons recoil upon themselves, the EMP hit will cause them to explode - Psalms 7:13-16, Joel 3:4, Obadiah 15

Then the sun, moon and stars will be obscured by the approaching Coronal Mass Ejection - Psalms 18:11-12, Isaiah 13:9-13, Ezekiel 32:7-8, Amos 8:9

A huge superhot mass of hydrogen plasma approaches the earth – Joel 1:15-20, Malachi 4:1, Zephaniah 1:14-18

Everyone on earth will be shocked and terrified - Jeremiah 6:24-26, Ezekiel 21:5-7a, Isaiah 13:6-8, Revelation 6:15-17

The atmosphere will be pushed aside – Revelation 6:14, 2 Peter 3:10, Isaiah 34:4

The whole earth will be enveloped by fire - Isaiah 66:15, Zeph. 3:8, 2 Peter 3:7

In the Holy Land, only a remnant will survive - Zechariah 13:8-9, Isaiah 6:11-13

He will judge the nations, the wicked will die - Isaiah 63:1-6, Habakkuk 3:12, Revelation 14 18-20, Isaiah 66:17, Isaiah 29:20-21, Hebrews 10:27

His enemies will become ashes - Malachi 4:3, Ezekiel 30:1-5, Jeremiah 49:2, Matthew 3:12b

Millions will die around the world - Psalms 97:3-5, Jeremiah 25:33, Isaiah 13:12

The Lord will protect those who call to Him - Isaiah 43:2, Joel 2:32, Acts 2:21

But most people will take shelter until it passes. Isaiah 2:19, Revelation 6:15

The survivors form a One World Govt. - Daniel 7:23-24, Revelation 17:12

The Holy Land will be regenerated - Ezekiel 36:8, Joel 2:21-24, Isaiah 35:1-10, Amos 9:13-15, Jeremiah 33:12-14

And the Lord's faithful Christian people will gather there. - Psalms 107, Isaiah 35:1-10, Ezekiel 34:11-16, Isaiah 66:18b-21, Revelation 7:9-14

They will become the new nation of Beulah - Isaiah 62:1-5, Ezekiel 36:3-38, Jer. 31

They will build a new Temple – Zechariah 6:15, Haggai 2:9, Ezekiel 40 to 48

The attack by a Northern army will be won by the Lord – Ezekiel 38:22, Joel 2:20

The leaders of Beulah will sign a 7 year peace treaty with the leader of the O.W.G. Daniel 9:27, Isaiah 28:15

At the mid point he will break it and conquer Beulah -Daniel 9:27, Zechariah 14:1-2

This commences the 7 Trumpets and 7 Bowls of the Great Tribulation - Rev 8:2-

Those who kept their faith in God will be taken to a safe place on earth. Daniel 11:32b, Revelation 12:14

3.5 years later, Jesus will Return in His glory, for His Millennial reign - Revelation 19:11-21, Matthew 24:30-31, Zechariah 14:3-4

The Lord has told us His plans and He will not relent or change them - Jeremiah 4:28

There are plenty more prophesies and scriptures to prove this scenario.

Believe it or not; up to everyone to decide! Psalms 19:11-12, Isaiah 48:6

Keraz · May 5, 2020

People are becoming more and more apprehensive about the future, as we experience a proliferation of natural disasters, with increasing political and economic problems, coupled with shortages of food and resources, mostly due to overpopulation.

But, the most obvious and the prophesied flash point of danger is the Middle East. The very existence of the State of Israel in their midst is an anathema to all the Islamic peoples. Psalms 83 lists the origins of those people who will conspire to ‘wipe out Israel as a nation’. When their attack commences, God will then answer the prayer of Psalms 83:13-18 Scatter them, my God, like thistledown, as a fire raging through the forest. Terrify them with Your storm winds, let them suffer disgrace and perish.

Many prophecies state how the Lord will act on this Day of His vengeance and wrath:

Micah 4:11-12 But now, many nations are massed against you, they say; Let Zion suffer, we will gloat over her downfall. They do not know God’s purpose – He has gathered them as sheaves for the threshing. Matthew 3:12

Psalms 37:13-15 The Lord will laugh at the wicked, their judgement is coming. They have prepared their weapons, but their swords will pierce their own hearts.

Isaiah 66:15-16 See: The Lord is coming in fire, bringing His retribution and anger. He will judge with fire and sword to test all mankind. All the wicked will die.

Deuteronomy 32:41-42 I will sharpen My flashing sword and take vengeance on those who hate Me. Nahum 1:2

Malachi 4:1 The Day comes, burning like a furnace, all evildoers will be as stubble, destroyed in a fiery blaze. 2 Peter 3:7, Hebrews 10:27

Isaiah 30:26-33 The sun will shine with seven times its normal brightness. On that Day He will protect and save His people. See; the Lord Himself comes from afar, His anger blazing and His doom heavy. With fire, He sieves the nations for destruction. Isaiah 63:1-6, Rev. 6:12-17 Ref: REB, some verses condensed.

There are many other Bible passages that describe this Day. What we can establish from them is;

1/ It is this event that takes people unawares – that ‘comes as a thief’. Much later, for the glorious Return of Jesus, we are given the exact time from certain events.

2/ It will be a worldwide event, of 24-36 hours duration. Isaiah 29:5-6, Psalms 50:1-4

3/ The Lord will actually cause fire to destroy His enemies, by the means of a CME sunstrike. Their own weapons will contribute to their destruction, the heat flash and the intense electromagnetic pulse will make rockets and explosives detonate on the ground. Psalms 7:12-16, Joel 3:4

4/ His Righteous people will be kept safe and in a short time; Isaiah 29:17, they will gather and settle in the new country of Beulah: Isaiah 62:4, Isaiah 35:1-10, Jeremiah 31:7-14, Ezekiel 34:11-31

Randy Kluth · May 6, 2020

I won't bore you with repeated recitations of what I believe about the Olivet Discourse. But you know my view is not popularly accepted, just as yours. It has been difficult for me through the years, but no longer. Now that I'm finally satisfied I understand it all, nobody believes me!

Mussa Jakotis · May 6, 2020

What about Current Situation.That will actually happen at second coming of christ which takes Place after Rapture after 7years elapse.

Randy Kluth · May 6, 2020

Mussa Jakotis said:
What about Current Situation.That will actually happen at second coming of christ which takes Place after Rapture after 7years elapse.

I don't personally believe in a Pretrib Rapture, nor in a 7 year "Tribulation Period." I do believe in a 3.5 year reign of Antichrist, terminated, ultimately, by the Return of Christ from heaven.

2 Thes 2.3 Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction...
8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming.

Timtofly · May 6, 2020

Jesus had a generalized view, and Paul explained more in a generalized way, but John actually recorded the events. Don't worry about John, who knows, we should stick with Paul and the church, who still viewed through a glass darkly, and if that is too much info, you can stay with the gospels and prophets who viewed the future through lots of future prophecies, that were fulfilled by 70 AD. Just wait till all is over and then heed John in hindsight. Cause who really likes to be warned? It is always do without thinking and then confess after the fact..

Randy Kluth · May 6, 2020

Timtofly said:
Jesus had a generalized view, and Paul explained more in a generalized way, but John actually recorded the events. Don't worry about John, who knows, we should stick with Paul and the church, who still viewed through a glass darkly, and if that is too much info, you can stay with the gospels and prophets who viewed the future through lots of future prophecies, that were fulfilled by 70 AD. Just wait till all is over and then heed John in hindsight. Cause who really likes to be warned? It is always do without thinking and then confess after the fact..

Are you trying to be condescending, because whether you're trying or not, it sure sounds that way? Regardless, you sound like you're comparing Jesus, Paul, and John--which is the exact opposite of what Paul taught in 1 Corinthians.

1 Cor 1.12 What I mean is this: One of you says, “I follow Paul”; another, “I follow Apollos”; another, “I follow Cephas”; still another, “I follow Christ.”
13 Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Were you baptized in the name of Paul?

I see no difference in eschatology between Jesus, Paul, and John. What I do see, however, is a difference in emphasis on the Jewish People with Jesus, before his crucifixion. At that time, the Law was still in effect. But I would draw your attention to the fact that the temple was torn down in the *NT period,* such that this is OT truth being fulfilled in the NT time period.

In other words, the emphasis on the Jews made by Jesus still has NT prophecy being fulfilled, namely through the Jewish Diaspora. That is, I believe, the Great Tribulation Jesus spoke of in Luke 21. And that followed the Abomination of Desolation Jesus said would happen in his own generation, ie in 70 AD.

None of this prohibits nor nullifies future prophecy Paul spoke of with respect to Christ coming back to destroy Antichrist, or John's description of the future Reign of Antichrist. Why you think these things are incompatible I don't know? Perhaps I'm missing your point altogether?

Timtofly · May 6, 2020

Randy Kluth said:
Are you trying to be condescending, because whether you're trying or not, it sure sounds that way? Regardless, you sound like you're comparing Jesus, Paul, and John--which is the exact opposite of what Paul taught in 1 Corinthians.

1 Cor 1.12 What I mean is this: One of you says, “I follow Paul”; another, “I follow Apollos”; another, “I follow Cephas”; still another, “I follow Christ.”
13 Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Were you baptized in the name of Paul?

I see no difference in eschatology between Jesus, Paul, and John. What I do see, however, is a difference in emphasis on the Jewish People with Jesus, before his crucifixion. At that time, the Law was still in effect. But I would draw your attention to the fact that the temple was torn down in the *NT period,* such that this is OT truth being fulfilled in the NT time period.

In other words, the emphasis on the Jews made by Jesus still has NT prophecy being fulfilled, namely through the Jewish Diaspora. That is, I believe, the Great Tribulation Jesus spoke of in Luke 21. And that followed the Abomination of Desolation Jesus said would happen in his own generation, ie in 70 AD.

None of this prohibits nor nullifies future prophecy Paul spoke of with respect to Christ coming back to destroy Antichrist, or John's description of the future Reign of Antichrist. Why you think these things are incompatible I don't know? Perhaps I'm missing your point altogether?

All I have asked is a verse from John, claiming an Antichrist. You keep making excuses.

I am not comparing anyone. I was pointing out the people being addressed like you did in the post I quoted. I know that the NT was being written down, in and around 70AD. Unless you have proof, letters were still circulating at 120AD. That is 50 years later. You cannot tell me that if the church thought 70AD is important they would have said, hey, 70 AD was a fulfillment of major prophecy. It was not until 1550 that any church father said hey, it has been 500 years since the 1000 years of Jesus' supposed reign.

Now it is 500 years later and still not every mind has caught on to preterism. If preterism was ever mainstream, can you prove an apostasy from preterism?

Randy Kluth · May 7, 2020

Timtofly said:
All I have asked is a verse from John, claiming an Antichrist. You keep making excuses.

I am not comparing anyone. I was pointing out the people being addressed like you did in the post I quoted. I know that the NT was being written down, in and around 70AD. Unless you have proof, letters were still circulating at 120AD. That is 50 years later. You cannot tell me that if the church thought 70AD is important they would have said, hey, 70 AD was a fulfillment of major prophecy. It was not until 1550 that any church father said hey, it has been 500 years since the 1000 years of Jesus' supposed reign.

Now it is 500 years later and still not every mind has caught on to preterism. If preterism was ever mainstream, can you prove an apostasy from preterism?

You think I'm a preterist? I'm not. I do share with preterists the belief that the Olivet Discourse was primarily about the 70 AD event, yes. But so did the early Church Fathers, and they were *not* preterists!

So you're way off on this. I never said the Kingdom of God came in 70 AD. Boy, are you off the mark! Get it right, and get back to me. And stop guessing about what I believe. Take me at my word, and not with you think I said. All else borders on slander, to me.

Timtofly · May 7, 2020

Randy Kluth said:
You think I'm a preterist? I'm not. I do share with preterists the belief that the Olivet Discourse was primarily about the 70 AD event, yes. But so did the early Church Fathers, and they were *not* preterists!

So you're way off on this. I never said the Kingdom of God came in 70 AD. Boy, are you off the mark! Get it right, and get back to me. And stop guessing about what I believe. Take me at my word, and not with you think I said. All else borders on slander, to me.

You are very great at ignoring a simple question, and that is the only thing I have ever accused you of being.

If you think my post has accused you, that is between you and the Holy Spirit, not me and my post.

The only earthly kingdom of Christ is going to happen in less than 7 years, and it will last 1000 years. I am not, nor ever will accuse people of accepting the lie about any other earthly kingdom. That is on their own head. Pointing out a future event over and over again is the only thing I am aware of. I have pointed out that it is impossible to have a post condition of a non-existent event. Nor is it possible to have a pre condition of all events, but that is a whole different issue.

Scripture can always be mis-interpreted. No one wants to have the wrong interpretation. There is also the fact that the whole world and most all of, not just some of the elect, have been decieved by Satan. I do not know the thoughts of every human currently alive. Thus all may have wrong interpretations on the majority of Scripture. That is not a bad thing. It is just an imperfect thing, that God will soon correct. Then, no human on earth will have the excuse they are decieved.

All have been taught the deception since before starting education, and all through their education. As far as I know no one on earth teaches anything anywhere contrary to what the rest of the world teaches. We are basically one huge family, especially since the world practically stopped, and looked at each other over this covid19 issue, and said, hello.

I have been trying to point that out, but I have no idea if it has even made sense to any one yet.

Keraz · May 8, 2020

Timtofly said:
Scripture can always be mis-interpreted. No one wants to have the wrong interpretation. There is also the fact that the whole world and most all of, not just some of the elect, have been decieved by Satan. I do not know the thoughts of every human currently alive. Thus all may have wrong interpretations on the majority of Scripture. That is not a bad thing. It is just an imperfect thing, that God will soon correct. Then, no human on earth will have the excuse they are decieved.

Isaiah 66:4 I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, no one answered; when I spoke, they did not hear: but they did evil before My eyes, and chose what displeased Me. Ezekiel 20:25

The prevalent error is in thinking that the Israel visible today is still the chosen of God. Wrong; they un-chose themselves, Matthew 27:25 and now it is every born again Christian, who belongs to the new nation of God's people. Matthew 21:43

With the rapture cult, the initial error is that of separating Israel and the Church, so they could still look for salvation to come to ethnic Israel, as a major tenet of their doctrine: Israel on earth, the Church in heaven. The pre-Trib rapture teaches removal to ensure survival from tribulation, but salvation has always been stated to redeem us from our fallen sinful state, in our earthly situation.

Acts 20:21 I know that when I am gone, savage wolves will come in among you and will not spare the flock. 2 Peter 2:1-3, 2 Timothy 4:3-4

The rapture idea is that God will “save us” from that which must occur – thus equating this supposed removal with salvation. After so many Christians saw the inadequacy and misappropriation of the verses used to promote Pre-Trib, the Post-Trib alternative was then built around surviving the tribulation – thus sustaining the illusion that survival is somehow related to salvation.

A strong delusion is mentioned in the New Testament: 2 Thessalonians 2:11 And for this reason God shall send them a strong delusion, that they should believe a lie.

This delusion has people looking forward to the 2nd Coming (in the so called rapture to heaven, Pre, Mid, or Post) believing in a rapture removal from the earth. The reality is, we experience His glorious salvation when we enter in to the blessed assurance that Christ’s Death means the penalty for our sin has been paid because of His sacrifice on the Cross. Ever since then, believers must trust in Jesus for their salvation and for their protection during the testing times to come. Isaiah 43:2, Psalms 31:23-24

And if the Lord does not save them, just as has happened to the millions of martyrs in the last 2 centuries, then we must die trusting in His promise of resurrection. Revelation 12:11, Revelation 13:10 Our souls will be kept under the heavenly Altar, Revelation 6:9-11, and Jesus will bring them with Him at His Return, then bring us to life again, to reign with Him for 1000 years. Revelation 20:4

Jesus said: take care that you be not deceived..... Seems that many have been rather careless!

Timtofly · May 8, 2020

Keraz said:
Isaiah 66:4 I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, no one answered; when I spoke, they did not hear: but they did evil before My eyes, and chose what displeased Me. Ezekiel 20:25

The prevalent error is in thinking that the Israel visible today is still the chosen of God. Wrong; they un-chose themselves, Matthew 27:25 and now it is every born again Christian, who belongs to the new nation of God's people. Matthew 21:43

With the rapture cult, the initial error is that of separating Israel and the Church, so they could still look for salvation to come to ethnic Israel, as a major tenet of their doctrine: Israel on earth, the Church in heaven. The pre-Trib rapture teaches removal to ensure survival from tribulation, but salvation has always been stated to redeem us from our fallen sinful state, in our earthly situation.

Acts 20:21 I know that when I am gone, savage wolves will come in among you and will not spare the flock. 2 Peter 2:1-3, 2 Timothy 4:3-4

The rapture idea is that God will “save us” from that which must occur – thus equating this supposed removal with salvation. After so many Christians saw the inadequacy and misappropriation of the verses used to promote Pre-Trib, the Post-Trib alternative was then built around surviving the tribulation – thus sustaining the illusion that survival is somehow related to salvation.

A strong delusion is mentioned in the New Testament: 2 Thessalonians 2:11 And for this reason God shall send them a strong delusion, that they should believe a lie.

This delusion has people looking forward to the 2nd Coming (in the so called rapture to heaven, Pre, Mid, or Post) believing in a rapture removal from the earth. The reality is, we experience His glorious salvation when we enter in to the blessed assurance that Christ’s Death means the penalty for our sin has been paid because of His sacrifice on the Cross. Ever since then, believers must trust in Jesus for their salvation and for their protection during the testing times to come. Isaiah 43:2, Psalms 31:23-24

And if the Lord does not save them, just as has happened to the millions of martyrs in the last 2 centuries, then we must die trusting in His promise of resurrection. Revelation 12:11, Revelation 13:10 Our souls will be kept under the heavenly Altar, Revelation 6:9-11, and Jesus will bring them with Him at His Return, then bring us to life again, to reign with Him for 1000 years. Revelation 20:4

Jesus said: take care that you be not deceived..... Seems that many have been rather careless!

That is only one deception. The main one is the one taught in school that the earth is in a multi-billion year old universe. That is the deception that no one understands. It hides the truth this earth is only 7000 years old, and that God says the church age is at an end. It states it all in Revelation. Of course every one strips out verses and taking them out of order, make them say whatever they want. They need to pick and choose to make their points, and to backup their opinions.

Randy Kluth · May 8, 2020

Timtofly said:
You are very great at ignoring a simple question, and that is the only thing I have ever accused you of being.

If you think my post has accused you, that is between you and the Holy Spirit, not me and my post.

The only earthly kingdom of Christ is going to happen in less than 7 years, and it will last 1000 years. I am not, nor ever will accuse people of accepting the lie about any other earthly kingdom. That is on their own head. Pointing out a future event over and over again is the only thing I am aware of. I have pointed out that it is impossible to have a post condition of a non-existent event. Nor is it possible to have a pre condition of all events, but that is a whole different issue.

Scripture can always be mis-interpreted. No one wants to have the wrong interpretation. There is also the fact that the whole world and most all of, not just some of the elect, have been decieved by Satan. I do not know the thoughts of every human currently alive. Thus all may have wrong interpretations on the majority of Scripture. That is not a bad thing. It is just an imperfect thing, that God will soon correct. Then, no human on earth will have the excuse they are decieved.

All have been taught the deception since before starting education, and all through their education. As far as I know no one on earth teaches anything anywhere contrary to what the rest of the world teaches. We are basically one huge family, especially since the world practically stopped, and looked at each other over this covid19 issue, and said, hello.

I have been trying to point that out, but I have no idea if it has even made sense to any one yet.

It may not make sense to anybody but you. I'm not opposed to you amusing yourself, but at some point you're going to have to communicate to others too.

Timtofly · May 8, 2020

Randy Kluth said:
It may not make sense to anybody but you. I'm not opposed to you amusing yourself, but at some point you're going to have to communicate to others too.

Yet you keep thinking that I amuse you? Why do you think I am doing this for me? I have been communicating with you a lot. I have asked you questions, and you refuse to answer them. Eventually you will have to, not sure why you keep putting them off.

Randy Kluth · May 9, 2020

Timtofly said:
Yet you keep thinking that I amuse you? Why do you think I am doing this for me? I have been communicating with you a lot. I have asked you questions, and you refuse to answer them. Eventually you will have to, not sure why you keep putting them off.

Well state your questions a little more clearly--I love trying to answer them. Nothing better for me to do! By all means. We certainly don't have to agree, but I'll give you my best shot.

Randy Kluth · May 9, 2020

Timtofly said:
You are very great at ignoring a simple question, and that is the only thing I have ever accused you of being.

If you think my post has accused you, that is between you and the Holy Spirit, not me and my post.

The only earthly kingdom of Christ is going to happen in less than 7 years, and it will last 1000 years. I am not, nor ever will accuse people of accepting the lie about any other earthly kingdom. That is on their own head. Pointing out a future event over and over again is the only thing I am aware of. I have pointed out that it is impossible to have a post condition of a non-existent event. Nor is it possible to have a pre condition of all events, but that is a whole different issue.

Scripture can always be mis-interpreted. No one wants to have the wrong interpretation. There is also the fact that the whole world and most all of, not just some of the elect, have been decieved by Satan. I do not know the thoughts of every human currently alive. Thus all may have wrong interpretations on the majority of Scripture. That is not a bad thing. It is just an imperfect thing, that God will soon correct. Then, no human on earth will have the excuse they are decieved.

All have been taught the deception since before starting education, and all through their education. As far as I know no one on earth teaches anything anywhere contrary to what the rest of the world teaches. We are basically one huge family, especially since the world practically stopped, and looked at each other over this covid19 issue, and said, hello.

I have been trying to point that out, but I have no idea if it has even made sense to any one yet.

The question you asked was for a verse from John with respect to the Antichrist. I didn't answer this because you certainly already know them--"as you've heard that Antichrist is coming, so already there have been many Antichrists." And I've heard the irrational claim that this proves Antichrist has already come in the form of Antichrists--plural. So no need to deal with that.

I've also heard that Paul didn't use the word Antichrist, and that the book of Revelation doesn't use the word Antichrist. Again, this isn't very reasonable, since all the terms have a single source, namely the Little Horn of Dan 7. Synonyms do not require the same exact word be used to express the same entity.

So John used Antichrist whereas Paul used Man of Sin, and the Revelation used the Beast. They all came from the same source in Dan 7, where the Little Horn boasts against God, and is an opponent of the Kingdom of God. Since he opposed the Kingdom of God, which Israel saw as the Messianic Hope, John viewed him as an anti-Messiah, or Antichrist. This also is exactly how Paul and the Revelation portray him, as an opponent of Christianity, and as the one who is destroyed at the Coming of Christ.

So I've answered your question--yes a simple one. I only ignore questions if I think they're going to be unreasonable. But perhaps you meant well? I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

Timtofly · May 9, 2020

Randy Kluth said:
Well state your questions a little more clearly--I love trying to answer them. Nothing better for me to do! By all means. We certainly don't have to agree, but I'll give you my best shot.

I asked for a verse in Revelation that mentioned a big A antichrist. Without twisting the words to fit a pre-made antichrist. I have pointed out to several that there is only the False Prophet and Satan. Satan is the dragon that stands on the seashore. Remains on the land in history, and then presents himself as a human with two horns like a lamb, and the voice of a dragon. No one is willing to see that is still Satan the deciever. There are those who know, but if they say, they may be martyred for doing so. They value temporary life over death of a finite body. Disobedience over trusting God. They do not fear God who can destroy both soul and body. They desire the praise of those who can only destroy this body. If they are truly children of God, the church, they would gladly be sent home, to heaven and the Father, instead of clinging to the filth of this world. There are enough lies these days, and a little truth could go a long ways.

So you gave your answer, now can you explain the confusion between calling the false prophet an antichrist in Daniel? Both Satan and the false prophet are Antichrists. But there can only be one Satan and one false prophet. Remember that Revelation says one recovers from a mortal wound. Resurrection or re-incarnation?

Keraz · May 9, 2020

Timtofly said:
That is only one deception. The main one is the one taught in school that the earth is in a multi-billion year old universe. That is the deception that no one understands. It hides the truth this earth is only 7000 years old, and that God says the church age is at an end. It states it all in Revelation. Of course every one strips out verses and taking them out of order, make them say whatever they want. They need to pick and choose to make their points, and to backup their opinions.

The deceptions we are discussing is not evolution, that false idea is well known and those who promote it will be severely judged.

It is the many an varied beliefs of Christians today, of God's plans for their future, where confusion reigns.
Sadly, many have believed fables, 2 Timothy 4:3-4, and because of this they are locked into those theories and cannot see the truths of prophecy. Isaiah 29:9-12

Re; the person who will become the leader of the One World Govt, to be established soon after the Sixth Seal event. He will be a charismatic and strong willed man, who will take dictatorial control of the OWG. He will be assassinated, but Satan will take control of his body, Revelation 13:3
Then; he reveals his anti-Christ character.
He will invade and conquer the Christian people of God, living in all of the holy land and will sit in the Temple. Zechariah 14:1-2, 2 Thess 2:4 This will trigger the Great Tribulation of the 7 Trumpets and 7 Bowls, culminating the Jesus Return, 1260 days later.

Timtofly · May 9, 2020

Keraz said:
The deceptions we are discussing is not evolution, that false idea is well known and those who promote it will be severely judged.

It is the many an varied beliefs of Christians today, of God's plans for their future, where confusion reigns.
Sadly, many have believed fables, 2 Timothy 4:3-4, and because of this they are locked into those theories and cannot see the truths of prophecy. Isaiah 29:9-12

Re; the person who will become the leader of the One World Govt, to be established soon after the Sixth Seal event. He will be a charismatic and strong willed man, who will take dictatorial control of the OWG. He will be assassinated, but Satan will take control of his body, Revelation 13:3
Then; he reveals his anti-Christ character.
He will invade and conquer the Christian people of God, living in all of the holy land and will sit in the Temple. Zechariah 14:1-2, 2 Thess 2:4 This will trigger the Great Tribulation of the 7 Trumpets and 7 Bowls, culminating the Jesus Return, 1260 days later.

What I said was not about evolution. No, literally it is that there is no universe. I know that sounds like God is just a boring, only going by what is predestined, no free will, being. No the problem is that we are in a punishment environment paying for Adam's sin. Not only spiritually, but physically as well. Satan has offered us a reality, that is physically impossible to ever experience. God took the Garden and perfection away, and Satan offered a dream that will never be real. That is the reality that we are facing in the next 3 years. The world is at a stand still waiting for God or Satan to make the next move. There is no Antichrist. That is a false thought Satan gave to the elect over 100 years ago. Satan is the antichrist we are looking for, not some human. It is going to be a war of will between God and Satan from here on out. That is what we need to be prepared for.

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