To ministers and Christian teachers of the Word

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marks

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That does not answer my question. If you sin, are you still a a Christian?
If a minister sins is he still a minister?

If ministers etc are viewing porn is there preaching, service etc still valid?

Or put it another way, what are ordinary Christians to do, where should they go for teaching, fellowship etc?
That's the question debated over and over on these threads.

If a man serves in the power of the flesh, his service is fleshy. If a man serves in God's power, then his service is spiritual.

Much love!
 
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CharismaticLady

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That does not answer my question. If you sin, are you still a a Christian?
If a minister sins is he still a minister?

If ministers etc are viewing porn is there preaching, service etc still valid?

Or put it another way, what are ordinary Christians to do, where should they go for teaching, fellowship etc?

If a minister is quenching the Spirit by feasting on porn, can his message have any empowerment of the Spirit?
 
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Timtofly

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How does anyone know if "they"are fit to teach, without knowing all about that person? Some wolves are better in sheep skin, than sheep going around in wolf skin.
 
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marks

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Could it be that 'One cannot declare God's Word with any effectiveness, while in sin.' is the reason for so much useless yada yada on this site?
I think that there is much that appeals to the flesh on Christian forums, and until we increase in humility there is the tendency to click "submit" when we shouldn't.

A lot of "tit-for-tat", and one-up-manship, and the like. I think there are zillion ways pride rears its head.

I don't know about the blanket statement that we cannot declare God's word effectively while in sin, because that would mean very little ministry going on.

Is the question, If there is recent sin in my life, can God still use me to minister His Word to others?

Much love!
 

marks

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How does anyone know if "they"are fit to teach, without knowing all about that person? Some wolves are better in sheep skin, than sheep going around in wolf skin.
By comparing them to the Word, and looking at their fruit. And we are all responsible to what we've been given, and we've been given the Bible, so we need to understand what it says to us.

The fruit of the teacher is the student. Are the students, including yourself, growing in righteousness under their teaching?

I've seen teachers of whom I see discrepancies between the Bible and their teaching, and I look at their students, and see confusion, and lack of trust, lack of confidence in the Lord, lack of Scriptural knowledge.

Much love!
 

Timtofly

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By comparing them to the Word, and looking at their fruit. And we are all responsible to what we've been given, and we've been given the Bible, so we need to understand what it says to us.

The fruit of the teacher is the student. Are the students, including yourself, growing in righteousness under their teaching?

I've seen teachers of whom I see discrepancies between the Bible and their teaching, and I look at their students, and see confusion, and lack of trust, lack of confidence in the Lord, lack of Scriptural knowledge.

Much love!
And there are thousands of Christians thriving and growing under the ministries of wolves. That is my point. It is very hard to tell who is who, but the church remains in tact and still doing God’s will.
 
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Windmillcharge

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That's the question debated over and over on these threads.

If a man serves in the power of the flesh, his service is fleshy. If a man serves in God's power, then his service is spiritual.

Much love!

If a minister is serving God, if his ministry is seeing fruit in people growing in stature as Christian and souls being saved.
I think you have a sinner saved by grace who is serving God. Even if he is struggling with sin.
 

Windmillcharge

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If a minister is quenching the Spirit by feasting on porn, can his message have any empowerment of the Spirit?

If you are struggling with sin and temptation are you having any empowerment in your life.
Remember we are All sinners saved by grace, we still sin.

I think the test of a minister is are Christians growing as Christians, are souls being saved under that minister service.

As Jesus said, it is by there fruit you will know them.
 

CharismaticLady

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If you are struggling with sin and temptation are you having any empowerment in your life.
Remember we are All sinners saved by grace, we still sin.

I think the test of a minister is are Christians growing as Christians, are souls being saved under that minister service.

As Jesus said, it is by there fruit you will know them.

Christians are not sinners. They are children of God. Sinners are slaves to sin and their master is the devil.

John 8:34-36
Jesus answered them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin. 35 And a slave does not abide in the house forever, but a son abides forever. 36 Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed.

1 John 3:8-9
8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.
 

Episkopos

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If you are struggling with sin and temptation are you having any empowerment in your life.
Remember we are All sinners saved by grace, we still sin.

I think the test of a minister is are Christians growing as Christians, are souls being saved under that minister service.

As Jesus said, it is by there fruit you will know them.


The fruit of the Spirit is not measured in conversions. Otherwise how do you account for conversions to other sects and religions. Those are converts too. There are many Christian false conversions.

And Paul was concerned he would be cut-off from God even after having preached to many. So that standard is bogus (1cor.9:27)
 
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Windmillcharge

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Christians are not sinners. They are children of God. Sinners are slaves to sin and their master is the devil.

John 8:34-36
Jesus answered them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin. 35 And a slave does not abide in the house forever, but a son abides forever. 36 Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed.

We can all quote scripture to support our position.
Rather than do an enlist Bible quoting competition, I have one question for you.
In the light of how Jesus refunded sin in the sermon on the mount. ( Not literal obedience but spiritual obedience of the principles in the law )
Do you obey the ten commandments ie.
Do you love the Lord your God with all your mind, soul and strength and do you love your neighbor as yourself.

Anything less than this is sin.


1 John 3:8-9
8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.
 

Windmillcharge

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The fruit of the Spirit is not measured in conversions. Otherwise how do you account for conversions to other sects and religions. Those are converts too. There are many Christian false conversions.

And Paul was concerned he would be cut-off from God even after having preached to many. So that standard is bogus (1cor.9:27)
Conversions to false religions are not conversions. Moving from one service of the devil to another is no change.

Yes there are many who profess faith in Jesus but have not committed themselves to him.

To measure a ministers Christian commitment, his spiritual sanctity. How would you do it?
I have no insight into anyone's soul all I can do is look at there life and the fruits that I see there.

If a minister is growing other Christians in the faith, if he is seeing souls being saved to me seems a practical means of measuring.

So how would you judge a minister?
 

Episkopos

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Conversions to false religions are not conversions. Moving from one service of the devil to another is no change.

Yes there are many who profess faith in Jesus but have not committed themselves to him.

To measure a ministers Christian commitment, his spiritual sanctity. How would you do it?
I have no insight into anyone's soul all I can do is look at there life and the fruits that I see there.

If a minister is growing other Christians in the faith, if he is seeing souls being saved to me seems a practical means of measuring.

So how would you judge a minister?


It's a like Spirit recognizes like Spirit kind of thing. My sheep know My voice...so then many could seem to be on the right track until confronted with the actual reality of a God intervention of some kind. Then the reaction to that shows the intent.

It is very easy for man to simulate godliness. But religious simulation is the most dangerous thing out there. We are very mixed...and when we hit a crossroads...the way we choose is very indicative of what we are about. So I see many of these crossroads in life.....and in the Christian walk. Even the devil was perfect before he took the wrong path. And Judas was a follower of Christ until a certain day when his true path was revealed.

So we are really getting to know ourselves. God is revealing us to ourselves.
 

Windmillcharge

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It's a like Spirit recognizes like Spirit kind of thing. My sheep know My voice...so then many could seem to be on the right track until confronted with the actual reality of a God intervention of some kind. Then the reaction to that shows the intent.

It is very easy for man to simulate godliness. But religious simulation is the most dangerous thing out there. We are very mixed...and when we hit a crossroads...the way we choose is very indicative of what we are about. So I see many of these crossroads in life.....and in the Christian walk. Even the devil was perfect before he took the wrong path. And Judas was a follower of Christ until a certain day when his true path was revealed.

So we are really getting to know ourselves. God is revealing us to ourselves.

So someone seeking God and they asked you how to recognise a 'good church' and a faithfull minister, how would you advise them?
 

Episkopos

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So someone seeking God and they asked you how to recognise a 'good church' and a faithfull minister, how would you advise them?

To me a church is not a meeting. It is about adeep friendship. So I would inquire at the depth of fellowship or friendship. Is it superficial? Is it religious in nature? Is it just a "saved" club"? Or are people really interested in spiritual growth and seeking the Lord.
Is there meat...or always the same milk?
 
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Windmillcharge

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To me a church is not a meeting. It is about adeep friendship. So I would inquire at the depth of fellowship or friendship. Is it superficial? Is it religious in nature? Is it just a "saved" club"? Or are people really interested in spiritual growth and seeking the Lord.

So a church where there is spiritual growth, where people are serious about seeking God, where there is real interest in people both inside the holy club and outside it is a place where people are growing in the faith, and where people are coming to know God, it is called conversation is a measur of a good faithful church.

Your definition is so close to what I posted as to be of no difference.
 
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Candidus

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To me a church is not a meeting. It is about adeep friendship. So I would inquire at the depth of fellowship or friendship. Is it superficial? Is it religious in nature? Is it just a "saved" club"? Or are people really interested in spiritual growth and seeking the Lord.


I can see it marketed now... soap with "Saved Club" embossed on it!

Thanks for the laugh!
First rule of Saved Club; don't talk about Saved Club! :)
 
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Candidus

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To me a church is not a meeting. It is about adeep friendship. So I would inquire at the depth of fellowship or friendship. Is it superficial? Is it religious in nature? Is it just a "saved" club"? Or are people really interested in spiritual growth and seeking the Lord.

I am not sure if the word "meeting" is a dirty word to use for assembling together; Not neglecting to meet together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another, and all the more as you see the Day drawing near.

I agree that the purpose of the meeting (appointment, gathering) is to get people together, organized for fellowship (koinonia) which is much more than getting together at the Moose Lodge and having a beer. Unfortunately, many Churches are not far from being like going to the Lodge.
 

Windmillcharge

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@Windmillcharge

I wouldn't have quoted the scriptures I did unless I KNEW the reality of them. Do you?

I know the reality of being saved, of the reality of struggling with temptation, of the reality of sinning.
I know this on a daily bases.

It is interesting that those who God has used greatly in the past and the present all acknowledge that they are the chief of sinners.
None proclaim that they do not sin.

So how do you councel someone like me who knows the reality of being a sinner saved by grace.
Who like Paul can cry about the evil I don't want to do I do while the good I want to do I don't do.