Hi to all ChristiansI know this may seem a complexed question but I'm curious to know if anybody else does? SATAN is he not just part of GODS plan of salvation? meaning the only way for us to repent is to first of all sin, meaning in order for us to come to GOD we first must have tasted Evil for us to make that decision about which way we decide to go. So without the presence of SATANs temptation existing around us how could our faith be be tested unto GOD. Is SATAN not just doing his job... Is this not is destiny... If so then how can he be expected to be tormented day and night forever when he had no choice in the matter and was simply chosen for this calling?Please DONT get me wrong I understand SATAN is the adversary of GOD and I'm in no way trying to defend him, I'm simply trying to understand his downfall.
Satans Destiny ?
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His downfall was his pride, he wanted to play god and try to mislead people so instead god cast him out of heaven and into hell.
cedarhart
When good men do nothing, evil will triumph.Take a
- Nov 17, 2008
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Hey Music,I'll just make this short and sweet. Do you love your mother? The usual answer is "Yes". Why? Because she loves you unconditionally. Do you love her for all the love that she has shown you and all the good she has done for you? Yes. So, in other words, you speak to her and love her for her goodness and not just because you want something from her. satan was not necessary for us to get to know God. We talk to Him as Father and not just when we need forgiveness or need something. We love Him for all His goodness. satan became envious and jealous in the first earth age of others and their accomplishments. However, God did use him for another purpose but I'm not so sure he was predestined for that. God may have just decided to take advantage of the situation for His purpose with Christ. That one is up for grabs.
Jimmy Engle
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The way I see it is simple actually. It's not so much as a test because since Adam we have been living in a fallen world where everything outside of Jesus Christ is absolutely absurd and leads to death. It says in Romans 3:23 "For all have sinned and come short to the glory of God". So since the very first moment we came out of our mother's womb, we already were considered before God to be a sinner. That alone should be enough for you to love God and to worship him and give praise to what Jesus has done on the cross. You know when I read through the bible, when you compress all the information down to the basis of what it is trying to tell you this is what I hear Him telling us...I do not care what you have done, and I do not care what you have become. My son has payed for it all on the cross. Now please come home. Also I think it is important to understand something. So many people don't understand why we will be punished for all eternity over one sin. But if you think about who God is then the answer is obvious. We are sinning against an infinitely worthy God. We don't deserve to be saved or to be in his presence no matter what we do because even are greatest works and accomplishments are nothing but filthy rags before God. The only thing we can ever motivate God to do is condemn us. But lucky for us...God is Love and he has made it possible for us to come to him and if we don't.....the fault will be ours. Anyways I am starting to go a little off topic so I'll end end this with one more thing. The devil rules over Earth and he keeps many many people blinded spiritually from the truth which is Jesus. If your wondering if God planned this to happen then I would highly doubt it because if sin didn't rule over the earth then Jesus would have never had to die and everyone would go to heaven which is what God wants. He doesn't want one person to go to hell but he is a just God and he must condemn us for our sins. That's why I thank Jesus Christ for what he did on the cross.
Conspicuously absent from the replies here (though on the right track):
In Isaiah 14, Lucifer (addressed by name) is said to be fallen. The implication is repeatedly made that Satan was perfect, but he fell because of pride. This wasn't a purposeful creation; why ever would God create that which he knew he would destroy?
Satans destiny is also the destiny of His seed..God said to Him Gen 3: 14And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life: 15And I will put enmity between thee [Satan] and the woman, and between thy[Satans] seed [Offspring] and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel. So He and His offspring are one..
MickinEngland
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- Dec 15, 2006
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Satan does not serve a purpose to God but what he started. Though he tempted Adam and Eve, they still had a choice not to obey him. God told Adam to protect the garden. Well, that must have meant there was something wrong running around the Garden that needed Adam to keep a eye on. Satan had nothing to do with Adams fall, Adam had everything thing to do with it. God never planned for Adam to eat that fruit. You would have to mark out several other scriptures if you believe that. Adam gave his right to rule, over to Satan. He turned over the earth to him. (Your a servant to who you obey, sin or righteousness.) Adam became a slave to satanic oppression. Adam ate from the tree of good and evil. The real Hebrew break down of that is "Knowledge of calamity" Adam for the first time in his life knew bad things can now happen. He had no concept of fear before. cedarhart:God did use Satan for a purpose, but it was never designed that way. He allowed Satan to be the father of the Children of disobedience. That had an effect of those that did not know and trust God, got what their father offered them. Death and misfortune. God never intended for things to go wrong. How could he have known Adam was going to disobey him? Adam was on his level in fellowship. God is a faith God and could only think good things about Adam. It's his nature, and he has no other nature. (Jer 29:11) Jesus Is Lord.
No Adam and Eves choice was theirs, but it was also Gods Sovereign cause that they sinned..it was according to His predetermined will for them.. And, it was only a matter of time that they would disobey, because the flesh, even in its pristine innocence cannot obey the Law of God.. rom 8: 7Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. 8So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. adam and eve proved this point..
Satan was never an angel; he was a liar and a murderer from his beginning. So many assume Satan was an angel and quote two verses in the OT about Lucifer. By the way the word Lucifer is only mentioned in the KJ Bible.Also God caused the fall and man had no choice. Romans 8: 20 and Ps 90: 1-3.
Where does the bible say satan was never an angel ? If he was Angel in the beginning that wouldnt preclude him being a liar and murderer too..Benoni;71549 said:
The word angel simply means messenger, the following is from Strong’s Concordance.NT:9999 inserted word (x);This word angel was added by the translators for better readability in the English. There is no actual word in the Hebrew/Greek text. The word may be displayed in italics, or in parentheses or other brackets, to indicate that it is not in the original text.Satan had a beginning; it was a liar, a murder according to God’s Word, not an angel. Isaiah 54:16 Behold, I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his works; and I have created the waster to destroy.Jn 8:44 Said Ye are of your father, the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the BEGINNING and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar and the father of it. 1Jn 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the BEGINNING. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.. The word beginning in the Greek means beginning. Not first he was an angel, second he was a murder and liar. Which one was he? KJ Bible is the only version that uses the word Lucifer. It is not even a Hebrew word. Moffat translation says "What a fall from heaven O Shining star of the dawns" Rotherham"How hast thou fallen from heaven, O shining One, son of the dawn!"Amplified "how are you fallen from heaven O light-bearer and day star, son of the morning!"Lucifer is not Satan; you cannot have two beginning; Satan was a liar, murderer from the beginning; some how you are trying to squeeze Lucifer beginning before Satan’s beginning; this is getting weird. 2 Pet 1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts.Rev 22:16 I JESUS have sent mine angel to testify unto you these thing sin the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.savedbygrace57;71550 said:
The problem is a messenger is not always a an angel. In Satan's case he was a liar and a murderer from his beginning not an angel or even a messenger.God created Satan as a liar, murderer he is not Lucifer.
That is not the point. No where does it say in God'S Word that Lucifer is Satan.
savedbygrace57;71622 said:
Where does it say in Gods word that Lucifer is not Satan ? Please provide a verse that says that ?Benoni;71626 said:
One plus one equal two,Let us stop looking at the doctrines of Rome and look what God’s Word has to say. Tradition tells us that Satan is Lucifer. Let me ask you one simple question? How can Satan be a arch angel; in his beginning seeing God’s Word declares he was a liar from his beginning? Is 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven O Lucifer, son of the morning!------13 For thou hast said in thine heart (mind) I will ascend into heaven, ---- 14 I will belike the most High, 15 yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit, -----16----Is this the MAN that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms------.Now the religious system teaches that Ez 28:13 and Is 14:12 are speaking of Satan and the KJ Bible is the only version that uses the word Lucifer. It is not even a Hebrew word.Moffat translation says "What a fall from heaven O Shining star of the dawns" Rotherham"How hast thou fallen from heaven, O shining One, son of the dawn!"Amplified "how are you fallen from heaven O light-bearer and day star, son of the morning!"2 Pet 1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts.Rev 22:16 I JESUS have sent mine angel to testify unto you these thing sin the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.The word Lucifer in the Strong's Concordance says it is a title applied to the king of Babylon. The word itself means the morning star. The word MAN means a mortal, an individual, a male person. I could rest my case on just that one verse alone, but why would Peter under the direction of the Holy Spirit compare Jesus as the Day star with Lucifer the Devil? It is the erroneous translation of the KJ that infers such.Lucifer was never an Arc Angel, he was a MAN. (Satan is a spirit.) Is14:15 says he was brought down to hell, (sheol, place of the dead) the side of the pit. Satan is never thrown in the grave because he has no part in a natural death as he is a spiritual being. Only MAN dies and is placed in a grave. Evil spirits only go to a place called Tartarus and Satan the high ranking one is sent to the lake of fire.( which is not hell) Isaiah 54:16 Behold, I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his works; and I have created the waster to destroy. (See God created Satan) Jesus in Jn 8:44 Said Ye are of your father, the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the BEGINNING and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar and the father of it. John writes in 1Jn 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the BEGINNING. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil..I cannot see that Satan had two beginnings. The word beginning in the Greek means beginning. of source. Not first he was an angel, second he was a murder and liar. Which one was he? Do we take the RCC's translation or do we take the correct translation of the word Lucifer? Satan was full of darkness. God is not working on a plan B. He has had a plan and a purpose from the beginning and Satan was a part of that plan. Simply a tool. Never an angel.This is my stand and I feel that you have a choice to believe the word of God or to accept a false doctrine made up in the minds of religious men. .
savedbygrace57;71628 said:
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